Hey DE, Good job putting the kuva siphon on the other side of the sabotage

[trunks013]

3 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

How would putting the kuva siphon before the reactor be a "coding aberration?"

Specific mapping placement on certain type of mission in a mapping section just for sabotage rly ?

The system is clearly not builted this way. The kuva spawn in some rooms but the map generation put those rooms everywhere it would be totaly spag prog to put and damn "IF" just for the sabotage missions to backtrack if the map connection allows you to reach this room before reaching the sabotage room.

Edited January 31, 2017 by trunks013

[Troll_Logic]

2 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

Specific mapping placement on certain type of mission in a mapping section just for sabotage rly ?

No.  Put the siphon before the objective.  As mentioned earlier, this happens on missions other than sabotage.

 

4 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

The system is clearly not builted this way. The kuva spawn in some rooms but the map generation put those rooms everywhere it would be totaly spag prog to put and damn "IF" just for the sabotage missions to backtrack if the map connection allows you to reach this room before reaching the sabotage room.

I have no idea what you just said.

[OvAeons]

trigger the ice sabotage then, no count down timer or constant damage.

[Marine027]

30 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

 

Sure, that would have been better, but both of you are still missing the point.

Putting the kuva siphon AFTER the goal in any mission is stupid and poor programming.

There may be some ways a team could adapt to some of the scenarios, but it's stupid and no good reason for it.  There is no arguing that.

So basicly you could also say putting the data console on spy behind locked doors and cameras is also bad programming.

You have to plan such also if you want all consoles, same reason you want the Kuva, it is not bad gameply just simple mechanic you have to consider it can happen and then have to plan trough aswell.

It was not bad programming but bad teamplay, like in others to, i come back to spy missions or rescue missions were people blindly run inside aswell, while there is a easy way aroun without triggering alarm or hack consoels for doors at all.

[JHarlequin]

 The kuva is sadly in addition to the normal mission.  People may want it more and it would be nice if the kuva was in front of the objectives so that time limits would never hit it, but when it is behind the objective, you probably should just ignore it and let it go.

 As for sabotage meltdowns, it's a random additional event.  Any sabotage can end up with a meltdown timer.  It probably isn't even more likely on any particular sabotage then others.  You have just been surprisingly lucky to get it on fire more often then on any other sabotage, including sabotage missions that don't have the reactor.

[trunks013]

27 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

No.  Put the siphon before the objective.  As mentioned earlier, this happens on missions other than sabotage.

 

I have no idea what you just said.

Because you are not coding i guess.

Simple way of seeing it.

The map is generated at random with an objective and an extraction point. 

Tiles are put to create it and its random ( or pseudo random)

In programming there is this thing called "object oriented" which means all object as property/function and stuff that are specific to all of them.

So a tile is an object with different property Possible Loot/Containers/connection to other tiles/spawn possibility(plant/kubrow/sand thingy/cephalon frag)

Some tiles are having the ability to spawn different stuff like Kuva syphon , Simaris target or even ayatans. Those are put into the map at random its not always at the start not always at the end. Thats why sometimes you have kuva just at the start and sometimes at the very end. Worst sometimes totaly on a random way to nowhere.

Those tile are connected to each other.

The map generator is not going like. This tile connect with this one and this one and this one and i'm gonna put syphon here and after that the objective tile.

Its way more like Start point , fill x tiles depending on need , Objective tile , Filling X tiles depending on the need then extraction. Randomize tiles drop property for all random stuff.

And the whole thing is not linear its tiles beside/on top/ in front of each others.

Its not considering what connect to what in order to spawn things either for simaris , kuva and many other things.

Edited January 31, 2017 by trunks013

[Troll_Logic]

21 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

So basicly you could also say putting the data console on spy behind locked doors and cameras is also bad programming.

No.  That's the point of spy.

If you can't see the difference between the point  of the spy mission and the very real possibility of failing the kuva mission (the point of the mission) simply because of where the  siphon is placed, I can't help you.  No reason to read past that first sentence of your message.

[Troll_Logic]

17 minutes ago, JHarlequin said:

 The kuva is sadly in addition to the normal mission. 

I'd argue the other side; the kuva is the point of the mission.  After all, that's why people are doing that specific mission.

Still, nice tone to your message.  It's refreshing after everyone thinks they're the first to say "You did it to yourself."

[Troll_Logic]

15 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

Because you are not coding i guess.

Only for decades, but I'll read the rest.

 

16 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

Simple way of seeing it.

Its not considering what connect to what in order to spawn things either for simaris , kuva and many other things.

Dude, it is literally nothing  to build the map, see the starting point, see the objective, and put a kuva siphon in a compatible tile between the two points.

Literally nothing.

You don't think they aren't constantly test pathing while they are building the map?

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

33 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Only for decades, but I'll read the rest.

 

Dude, it is literally nothing  to build the map, see the starting point, see the objective, and put a kuva siphon in a compatible tile between the two points.

Literally nothing.

You don't think they aren't constantly test pathing while they are building the map?

 

^ This seems pretty valid.

I'm not a coder, I watch tons of cat videos on the interwebs.  So I defer to those more adept than I. :)  That being said, I see it like this-

Missions be all like this and stuff

{A} start point ------ {B} mission objective tile ----- {C} extraction (the place where you wait for Captain Slow Pants, and shoot at each other for 35 seconds)

"Hey coding dood bro enter logic command that inserts 'Kuva' object between A & B only"

ps.. I'm Captain Slow Pants

[Helljack84]

While you might argue if it's a good idea or not to set the whole map on fire when you still want to do a kuva flood, random countdown doesn't help.

It's also pretty annoying to be taunted by queeny during a lengthy bossfight while you know that all the kuva will be gone and you'll leave with absolutely nothing of worth.

[Marine027]

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

No.  That's the point of spy.

If you can't see the difference between the point  of the spy mission and the very real possibility of failing the kuva mission (the point of the mission) simply because of where the  siphon is placed, I can't help you.  No reason to read past that first sentence of your message.

And if the Kuva mission is a Spy aswell?

And one Idiot decicdes to trigger the Spy Vault alarms happily?

Failing the Mission in the process?

You see your logic in this?

Kuva is the main goal yes but it not makes the other goal just none existent.

You get two goals in a Kuva mission, do what you are in for and find the Kuva Siphon aswell.

If people are to dumb focusing on one first and screw it up with triggering timer like in the sabotage its the teams fault and not DE's.

Yes it can be placed better at times like near a boss were it is locked out, then you simply need to try to hurry, use the boss weakness and kill it fast.

The main word in this is preparation and know what you are doing. Blame the players and not DE if people decide to be pricks.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Marine027

[Somb3rBivalve]

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Dude, it is literally nothing  to build the map, see the starting point, see the objective, and put a kuva siphon in a compatible tile between the two points.

Literally nothing.

You don't think they aren't constantly test pathing while they are building the map?

Yeah, they could do that, or they can keep it the way it is now (arguably it's best to keep it the way it is now). Why? Because it makes players have to go around and look for it as a secondary objective. As per the warframe wiki, the siphon gives nearby rooms a reddish tint to the air in them, so that should make it a bit easier to find. I mean, the worm queen isn't going to put her siphon in plain sight; she's going to try and hide it at least somewhat.

Alternatively, it also makes players make certain gameplay decisions like "Hey, we haven't found the kuva siphon yet. Should we be setting the ship on fire?"

[Troll_Logic]

5 minutes ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

Because it makes players have to go around and look for it as a secondary objective.

Have to do it now.  Just because the siphon is before the objective doesn't mean that it's directly between spawn and objective.  I've been in many kuva missions where there is a junction room, often spawn, where the objective is down one path and the siphon is down the other.

[Troll_Logic]

21 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

You see your logic in this?

My logic is sound.  People select the kuva mission for the kuva.  If the kuva wasn't in the mission then the players wouldn't have picked that random spy/excavation/exterminate/whatever mission without the reward.

[Marine027]

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

My logic is sound.  People select the kuva mission for the kuva.  If the kuva wasn't in the mission then the players wouldn't have picked that random spy/excavation/exterminate/whatever mission without the reward.

Still no excuse to ignore the mission it is in it and just rush trough.

 

18 minutes ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

Alternatively, it also makes players make certain gameplay decisions like "Hey, we haven't found the kuva siphon yet. Should we be setting the ship on fire?"

^This.

[Troll_Logic]

5 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Still no excuse to ignore the mission it is in it and just rush trough.

I didn't say to ignore the mission.  What I said was the kuva is the point of the mission.

Again, if the kuva wasn't the reward, then players wouldn't be doing the mission.

6 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

^This.

Exactly.  FIND the kuva first.  Put it before the objective.

So we agree. Good.

[Unholyrequiem]

pls, just because there's a work around doesn't make it inherently good game design. Kuva missions are just regular missions with a shoe horned Kuva siphon as a flimsy side quest that I personally just cheese with Loki regardless of whether its a flood or regular Kuva Siphon. The fact that they can slow the pace of the mission or coerce players to wait to complete the mission otherwise fail the mission or the Kuva quest for unknowing players really shows how not thought out the whole premise is. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Unholyrequiem

[StinkyPygmy]

*makes poor choices* *Blames DE*

Riiiiiight. If you made it to the reactor and still had not run into the siphon, then its pretty self evident that the siphon would appear further on in the mission. Ergo, you should have put two and two together and realised that  perhaps choosing to take the time limited option was probably a poor choice to make on your part.

[Chipputer]

Could it be improved? Yeah. No doubt.

Should your poor decisions be the catalyst for that improvement? No. Not at all.

[Troll_Logic]

17 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

*makes poor choices* *Blames DE*

Riiiiiight. If you made it to the reactor and still had not run into the siphon, then its pretty self evident that the siphon would appear further on in the mission. Ergo, you should have put two and two together and realised that  perhaps choosing to take the time limited option was probably a poor choice to make on your part.

I can't think of a better reply than this.

31 minutes ago, Unholyrequiem said:

pls, just because there's a work around doesn't make it inherently good game design. Kuva missions are just regular missions with a shoe horned Kuva siphon as a flimsy side quest that I personally just cheese with Loki regardless of whether its a flood or regular Kuva Siphon. The fact that they can slow the pace of the mission or coerce players to wait to complete the mission otherwise fail the mission or the Kuva quest for unknowing players really shows how not thought out the whole premise is. 

 

[StinkyPygmy]

2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I can't think of a better reply than this.

 

I don't see it as a work around though. I see it as being presented with a choice for something working as intended and players being encouraged to make a sound decision. For the few times you have to have to stop and actually use your brain in this game, I don't think two seconds in a kuva mission will kill you. This being poor game design is a matter of opinion and highly debatable.

Me thinks you just need to make better choices, hombre.

[Troll_Logic]

10 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Could it be improved? Yeah. No doubt.

Should your poor decisions be the catalyst for that improvement? No. Not at all.

This is one thing I will never understand about this forum.  Everyone is so quick to point a finger and to be honest, I'm guilty of this as well.

But dude, what do you think is the catalyst for all improvements?  Feedback.  Do you think I'm reporting the first time this happened?  You're saying it should be improved but if no one said anything would it be improved?

[Troll_Logic]

3 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I see it as being presented with a choice for something working as intended

I think you are in the minority there.

[StinkyPygmy]

4 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I think you are in the minority there.

Whether or not I have a minority opinion is a bit of a moot point. Its also a pretty big logical fallacy that an opinion or stance is "right" simply because its is shared by the majority. A large group of people can be wrong in much the same way a small group of people can be wrong. How many people agree on an idea has very little to do with how accurate it is. Even more so when talking about what is opinion based and not factual.

I hope thats not your ace in the hole.