Why are mods locked to PvP? : expanding PvP mods to PvE

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Balance is probably the answer that is going to come up, however I hope to counter that argument. Very few players play PvP and I think that one of the reasons for this is that the content is only usefull in that space. I am disregarding cosmetics for the moment, even thouhgt they are the only reason I even go into the mod at all.  I cant speek for ever one, but I would be willing to bet not many people bother trading PvP mods, or if they do there are far fewer buyers. There are few mods that carry over into PvE, and many of them are decent.

I have to ask however, why are more of these mods not shared content between the two modes?

Go throughout them and see what I mean: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Category:PvP_Mods 

a lot of them are small things, some not even worth using on PvE builds but more of side grades. That last part however, is exactly why I like them.

Mesas waltz is one of the best examples, as it is such a minor thing, but it can be useful in specific situations. The stance mods can be PvP, whatever, but the other small mechanic changes are fun. A few of them are only applicable to PvP (such as removing energy from a target with necros or stealing energy using mags pull) but many of them are not. I can also see not wanting to put the damage converter mods into PVE so that we can not make a gun that does not do slash, do slash- however we have gun specific mods and its probably not hard to put a restriction on them so that it has to have at lest 1 point of the three main damage types and converts after mods apply.A few of these mods would more then likely have to change outside of PVP in some ways, but being two different load outs means that the same mod could apply different stats in the two modes without issue.

The mods are in the game, the time has been spent on them, the mechanics are all there, but few players are using them - so why not share them between modes? Most of them have side effects that are trade offs, other then the fact that you have to brake a build and take up a slot. Most of them are also high mod point cost. The balance here is that even for small changes they are expensive point wise, but will also take up a slot, meaning that you have to make mindful decisions as to what you want to use and build. Its a form of personalization.

Even if you left the reward mods (gun specific stuff and some mods can only be found as rewards from matches) to be obtained only in PvP missions, then I can almost guarantee people would play it more, and in turn the demand for said modes would increase. This may lead to more platinum sales, and ultimately more profit on an otherwise underutilized aspect of the game.

In short, DE you are losing money by not doing this. Resources and time have been spent on a game mode few play, and this is a way to attract more people to it with the aspect of universal mods. Not everyone is going to like it, but I think it would attract a few more people then current, but that is my two cents on it at lest.

 

 

EDIT: I am arguing for a game mode I dislike, and hoping that more options for mods (that alredy exist) could be added into PvE. I think that people may play PvP more if they had a reason to. I dislike arch-wing as well but for other reasons, however its integrated into some of the levels so whatever.

 

In regards to solo players - we do currently have universal mods droping on lua, but I think that some of these mods could be introduced into drop pools outside of it. however, at the same time I would rather not see loot pools diluted due to it. It may work will like the new tired reward systme for nightmare mode mods, or bring back the game mode where we assalted spectors but as a rail alert. these also could replace some of the mods like redirection in high tire def or survival.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[Tesseract7777]

The simple answer is that whether you like conclave/think it is good or not, most people don't touch it. And players already like to cause a ruckus about anything "gated" behind something they don't like to do. 

Now imagine if mods that you can only get by doing PvP, that were once only for PvP, could now be used in PvE. The forums would be flooded with threads in a very furious tone. People shouting about how it isn't right that "exclusive mods" are "gated" behind a "hated horrible game mod". The screeching would be awful. 

And all so some mods that are hardly going to even be of use outside of PvP, can be used in PvE. Seems like too much bother for not enough value. 

 

Edit: If one of your ideas is to propose sharing them in between game modes in terms of not just making them playable in both, but making them drop somewhere in PvE as well, that would be one thing. People could probably get on board with that. 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Mods in pvp are balanced for pvp, if made more powerful there will be a power gap amongst player only elites will play. 

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Just now, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Mods in pvp are balanced for pvp, if made more powerful there will be a power gap amongst player only elites will play. 

true. my point was making mods that are universal but function differently depending on the mode your using them in. adding them into the drop table outside of PvP (some drop on the moon currently) also helps.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The simple answer is that whether you like conclave/think it is good or not, most people don't touch it. And players already like to cause a ruckus about anything "gated" behind something they don't like to do. 

Now imagine if mods that you can only get by doing PvP, that were once only for PvP, could now be used in PvE. The forums would be flooded with threads in a very furious tone. People shouting about how it isn't right that "exclusive mods" are "gated" behind a "hated horrible game mod". The screeching would be awful. 

And all so some mods that are hardly going to even be of use outside of PvP, can be used in PvE. Seems like too much bother for not enough value. 

 

Edit: If one of your ideas is to propose sharing them in between game modes in terms of not just making them playable in both, but making them drop somewhere in PvE as well, that would be one thing. People could probably get on board with that. 

your not wrong. I do know they do drop on the moon form the sentinels, but not all of them. you can already get them in PVE, somewhat, so my argument is that more of them should be like that. where PvP is the esior way to get them, but have them drop off something in the main game.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

That will require alot of extra coding for 1 mod to have different effects in different situations, possible if they rework mod system entirely though. At moment mods have 1 effect in both game modes.

Edited February 2, 2017 by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

That will require alot of extra coding for 1 mod to have different effects in different situations, possible if they rework mod system entirely though.

that is also true. somewhat. warframe helth and otherwise is edtied per mode and normalized and that is what gave me the idea. but ya...

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

PvP mods are for PvP. Why should they drop in PvE? If you don't play Conclave, why do you need (want?) them?

As for mods that are both in PvP and PvE, those are drops elsewhere (Lua?) and transmutable(?). I don't understand your gripe. Please give more details.

[Stratego89]

The reason people don't play PvP is not because it's rewards are only used in PvP.

People don't play PvP because this is a PvE game.

People don't play PvP because most people that already do are extremely toxic to everyone that joins.

People don't play PvP because it is broken far past the point of remaining "playable" or "fair".

People don't play PvP because DE refuses to actually attempt to fix the issues it has that drive people away instead of forcing it down our throats because that's the easier route that requires less time and effort on their part- because they know it's never going to succeed and don't want to put real resources towards it knowing that.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

PvP mods are for PvP. Why should they drop in PvE? If you don't play Conclave, why do you need (want?) them?

As for mods that are both in PvP and PvE, those are drops elsewhere (Lua?) and transmutable(?). I don't understand your gripe. Please give more details.

Most of the PvP modes are side grades, or otherwise small mechanic changes that effect the game slightly. I used mesas waltz as an example because it would be usfull but limited in use. or rumbled for atlus. or antimatter mine for nova, etc.

I have all (if not most) of the currently universal ones from farming lua. I would just like to use the others mostly because they exist. Again some of them do not make scents, but like Sword Alone might be cool on a dagger. Its not a big upgrade, but it can in situations be usefull. It adds options and new ways to enjoy the game, and may make PVP something that more people might at lest try (I am trying to advocate for a mode i dislike as well)

Edited February 2, 2017 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[John89brensen]

Most mods i dont think i would ever use. But its a shame that PvP stances are exclusive to a game mode no one plays.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

7 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

The reason people don't play PvP is not because it's rewards are only used in PvP.

People don't play PvP because this is a PvE game.

People don't play PvP because most people that already do are extremely toxic to everyone that joins.

People don't play PvP because it is broken far past the point of remaining "playable" or "fair".

People don't play PvP because DE refuses to actually attempt to fix the issues it has that drive people away instead of forcing it down our throats because that's the easier route that requires less time and effort on their part- because they know it's never going to succeed and don't want to put real resources towards it knowing that.

I do not dissagree with you. I do not like the mode. I just think that haveing a reason to go into it might help. plus some of the side grades are cool in a PVE seting.

[Nazrethim]

4 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

The reason people don't play PvP is not because it's rewards are only used in PvP.

Actually that's a reason, if DE allows the Conclave mods to be used in PvE without clogging a PvE drop table with them Conclave would be more rewarding and thus attract more players. Would also open path for a future Conclave Syndicate Weapon and a Conclave Quest Warframe.

4 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

People don't play PvP because this is a PvE game.

Not since Lunaro update, an update dedicated to PvP. Now it's a game period.

4 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

People don't play PvP because most people that already do are extremely toxic to everyone that joins.

You mean the welcoming community that helps new comers with information and tips and is in general respectful of each other? The community that tends to scold toxic players or flat out ignore them because they are a bad influence? did I mention most of those toxic players are the ones who hate conclave in the first place?

4 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

People don't play PvP because it is broken far past the point of remaining "playable" or "fair".

Evidence? Abilities, Frame EHP, weapon damage, everything is balanced. Dedicated servers almost eliminated lag.

4 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

People don't play PvP because DE refuses to actually attempt to fix the issues it has that drive people away instead of forcing it down our throats because that's the easier route that requires less time and effort on their part- because they know it's never going to succeed and don't want to put real resources towards it knowing that.

You mean encouraging and giving incentive to play a gamemode they have polished into a good and engaging mode?

[Vox_Preliator]

I really don't have a problem with making them universal, but people get their knickers in a knot (Rightly so, these are not cosmetics) if they can't earn them solo.  Even if Trading for them would be an option, there would be no possible way for someone with a piss-poor connection or personal decision to not play multiplayer to get these gameplay-altering items, and we don't have enough Sentients to drop all these like they do the Zoom and Holstered Reload mods.  And unlike Vaulting or Event-limited items, there are not even lesser versions one can use instead.  An idea I've had is for Teshin to offer dailies like Simaris where you basically hunt down a tough Warframe Specter, kinda like an Acolyte, for solo players to at least very slowly gain Conclave standing over time.

That said, a great many of them would just never be used.  Even with minor alterations (Like Draining Gloom causing a magnetic proc explosion only in PvE or something instead of just energy drain) they would only find their way into a handful of builds.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

@Nazrethim Thank you. I was trying to make this point, but fell short on it.

 

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

13 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

I really don't have a problem with making them universal, but people get their knickers in a knot (Rightly so, these are not cosmetics) if they can't earn them solo.  Even if Trading for them would be an option, there would be no possible way for someone with a piss-poor connection or personal decision to not play multiplayer to get these gameplay-altering items, and we don't have enough Sentients to drop all these like they do the Zoom and Holstered Reload mods.  And unlike Vaulting or Event-limited items, there are not even lesser versions one can use instead.  An idea I've had is for Teshin to offer dailies like Simaris where you basically hunt down a tough Warframe Specter, kinda like an Acolyte, for solo players to at least very slowly gain Conclave standing over time.

That said, a great many of them would just never be used.  Even with minor alterations (Like Draining Gloom causing a magnetic proc explosion only in PvE or something instead of just energy drain) they would only find their way into a handful of builds.

you do have a good point here and this is one that is something hard to get aorund. we do currently have universal mods droping on lua, but I think that some of these mods could be introduced into drop pools outside of it. however, at the same time I would rather not see loot pools diluted due to it.

It may work will like the new tired reward systme for nightmare mode mods, or bring back the game mode where we assalted spectors but as a rail alert. they would ahve drop rates that may be lower, but give someone a way to get them.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

21 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Most of the PvP modes are side grades, or otherwise small mechanic changes that effect the game slightly. I used mesas waltz as an example because it would be usfull but limited in use. or rumbled for atlus. or antimatter mine for nova, etc.

I have all (if not most) of the currently universal ones from farming lua. I would just like to use the others mostly because they exist. Again some of them do not make scents, but like Sword Alone might be cool on a dagger. Its not a big upgrade, but it can in situations be usefull. It adds options and new ways to enjoy the game, and may make PVP something that more people might at lest try (I am trying to advocate for a mode i dislike as well)

From my understanding, you are wondering why DE hasn't allow PvP mods in PvE since they're mainly side-grades. Is this correct? If so, that's is a good point. I don't play Conclave so I have no idea how "balance" those mods are for PvE. I welcome more options and diversity in PvE, so I will welcome them.

As for why PvP mods don't drop in PvE, well because they are PvP only mods. 

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

43 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Edit: If one of your ideas is to propose sharing them in between game modes in terms of not just making them playable in both, but making them drop somewhere in PvE as well, that would be one thing. People could probably get on board with that. 

It is now after seeing some of the comment. solo players being able to get the mods is an isshue, so they would have to be added into a drop pool. I hwoever do not want them to dilute a pool and I feel like havieng them repalce mods like rederection or other mods that show up WAY too much in surival or def may be a good rout for that, but have it tied to diffrent planets. they could also bring back the spector fight with the rails, but as an alart much like nightmare mode. it even fits into the lore a bit... kinda. point is non PvP way of geting the mods that can be done solo.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

From my understanding, you are wondering why DE hasn't allow PvP mods in PvE since they're mainly side-grades. Is this correct? If so, that's is a good point. I don't play Conclave so I have no idea how "balance" those mods are for PvE. I welcome more options and diversity in PvE, so I will welcome them.

As for why PvP mods don't drop in PvE, well because they are PvP only mods. 

Yes, or at lest for most of them. conclave uses diffrent scales for health, shilds, damage, etc so its harder to one hit people. it narrows it down more to skill, but there are also mods that add i things you can do, and some of them are pritty cool, all bit it small.

 

they do drop in PvE :P you can get some of them off sentinals but only the ones that can be used in both. valid point however.

[Stratego89]

28 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

I do not dissagree with you. I do not like the mode. I just think that haveing a reason to go into it might help. plus some of the side grades are cool in a PVE seting.

Any of the mods that are usable in both PvP and PvE are obtainable in both places. The only mods locked to PvP are PvP only. DE tried to "incentivize" going to PvP by locking a ton of really cool skins behind it that you can't get any other way. You know what that accomplished? Pissing a LOT of people off REALLY badly, and FORCING people into something they don't enjoy, doing daily boosting to unlock things. They don't play, they hop in with a friend, boost, and get out. Even in games with other people- and you know what, DE doesn't condemn this behavior even though it affects other people because 1. EVERYONE does it, and 2. DE themselves know **** well that it's the only feasible way to get anything in the broken-ness that is PvP.

 

You cannot incentivize play for something that's the exact opposite of what they joined a game for. You cannot incentivize an FPS player to play a mahjong minigame, it will NEVER work. Any time to TRY to do so, it backfires and just hurts people. I didn't have an issue with them adding PvP for the people that "wanted" it until they started forcing us into playing it to get stuff that affects PvE. They need to knock it off.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

2 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Yes, or at lest for most of them. conclave uses diffrent scales for health, shilds, damage, etc so its harder to one hit people. it narrows it down more to skill, but there are also mods that add i things you can do, and some of them are pritty cool, all bit it small.

 

they do drop in PvE :P you can get some of them off sentinals but only the ones that can be used in both. valid point however.

Maybe change the title to "Why not expand PvP mods to PvE?" or "Why not allow PvP mods to be use in PvE?". My interpretation of the current title is what led to my confusion. Thanks for clarifying. 

[Kaotyke]

45 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

The reason people don't play PvP is not because it's rewards are only used in PvP.

People don't play PvP because this is a PvE game.

People don't play PvP because most people that already do are extremely toxic to everyone that joins.

People don't play PvP because it is broken far past the point of remaining "playable" or "fair".

People don't play PvP because DE refuses to actually attempt to fix the issues it has that drive people away instead of forcing it down our throats because that's the easier route that requires less time and effort on their part- because they know it's never going to succeed and don't want to put real resources towards it knowing that.

Well...

*looks at the recent posts about the Conclave Alert*

Toxicty is to blame on the players, PvE, PvP, Forums... it doesnt matter.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Well...

*looks at the recent posts about the Conclave Alert*

Toxicty is to blame on the players, PvE, PvP, Forums... it doesnt matter.

I found this funny. The last few times iv been to PvP, the team sat in and didnt kill anyone so that we all got first place. we used the time in the middle to talk and say hello.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

5 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

I found this funny. The last few times iv been to PvP, the team sat in and didnt kill anyone so that we all got first place. we used the time in the middle to talk and say hello.

That's a pretty ironic comment. PvP without actual PvPing. Confirmed: PvP is really PvE in disguise. Let's get back on topic before this thread de-volve into a toxic anti-PvP thread.

[MystMan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

As for mods that are both in PvP and PvE, those are drops elsewhere (Lua?) and transmutable(?).

Conclave mods are untransmutable; this includes the ones that drop from the Sentients.

Spring-Loaded Broadhead is the sole pvp/pve mod that can only be gotten from conclave. Why?  I dunno.