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Remove the Foundry Wait Time


Net56
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Launching this argument off of a thread I posted on the Steam forums for this game nearly a year ago: Thread Here

I know the community has basically resigned itself to waiting 24 hours for every Forma, 3.5 days for every frame, and 12-24 hours for every weapon. Hopefully, we can talk about this without people going to the "you're impatient and entitled" argument, since this is what I see every time anyone brings this up. This is the Feedback forum. I am perfectly aware of all of the great strategies of spicing up the wait and making it less annoying. Wouldn't you rather just not have to deal with those wait times at all? I'm going to start off by addressing some of the arguments I've seen:

"If there was no wait time, I would get through the game's content too fast. I would complete everything and then uninstall."

Warframe came out nearly 4 years ago. Since then, it has amassed a lot of content. New playable missions such as story missions, archwing, conclave, raids, sorties, trials, relics, syndicate quests, nightmare missions, and tactical alerts. There are over 250 weapons, over 30 frames, multiple types of pets, and tons of cosmetics. Taking away from the wait time on the crafting table is not a significant dent in the total playtime Warframe now has. All materials still need to be farmed, all blueprints still need to be bought or researched, all equipment still needs to be leveled, often repeatedly, and there are multiple things in the game that rely entirely on RNG.

The people who seem to care most about this are people that have already passed a majority of Warframe's content, and worry about how quickly they could fill up all of their slots if they could just use their huge material coffers to pump out 50 formas and Prime frames in one day.  If you are already over MR 10 and you haven't quit the game, I seriously doubt you would just because items craft faster in the Foundry. I'm also skeptical that most of the players in Warframe really have the stashes of rare materials to just instantly create everything they want immediately. If you're worried about certain materials such as forma or potatoes becoming too easy to obtain, just put an exclusive timer on those items and leave everything else alone. In other words, let Forma have a 24 hour crafting time, but let us craft our weapons with no stand by.

"DE wouldn't make as much money. People buy things because they take so long to craft in the Foundry."

I challenge that assumption until DE tells me that themselves. People very rarely Rush the Foundry, partially due to the Rush cost not being 1:1 with the time left on the item. So, the only way DE is making any real money on it is if people are specifically buying their frames and gear with cash to avoid... waiting. Not because the farm for most frames is RNG-based, not because the acquisition of some resources such as Nitain is frustrating or time-consuming to obtain, and not because buying from the store provides a free slot and orokin for the item. But because of the wait time.

I'm more inclined to buy into this theory for frames than I am for weapons, since frames take much longer. However, frames also tend to be more difficult to craft regardless, due to having multiple parts, sometimes even quests, barring you from even starting their timers. But if that's the issue, then keep the wait time on frames and leave the rest of the gear alone. I'm not convinced that DE is making any significant money off of the real-time crafting mechanic, directly or indirectly, when the timer is just one day.

"Only new people care about this, therefore it isn't anything important and doesn't need to change."

I'm not new, I've been on Warframe since a little after beta. It may not be at the top of your list of problems and most of you don't seem to care. However, I do want DE's thoughts on this. This game has improved so much over the years, and I think of the Foundry as an imperfection on an otherwise perfectly sculpted diamond. There was more of a reason for this wait time when Warframe was just starting out, when there really wasn't that much content. Some of the most rare resources hadn't even been invented yet. There were no such things as clan halls or sorties, and most of the cosmetic market didn't exist.

Now? This game is bursting with content in every area. There is always something else to do, and they release more all the time. Why do we still need to wait on the Foundry?

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It's against DE interests to remove the wait time.

I would maybe say that is not even in the players' best interests.

Still, DE could reduce some waits.

6 hours to build Alad V assassination key after you have waited 11 days for an invasion to resolve is too much. 1 hour would be better.

Some wait times absolutely NEED to be checked again...24 hours for Furis, 24 hours for AK version of weapons where you just have 2 weapons and an Orokin Cell?

Those are things DE needs to look at and address, not removing wait times completely.

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It'll never happen it's a free to play game this inclines people to spend money there's always limitations on games like this . Also lots of people rush stuff in the foundry most people for frames build their parts then rush the full frame. Some people rush guns they want right after building them (still cheaper than buying the full thing) the list really goes on for anything. If DE wanted to remove the wait time completely it would of happened years ago or even from the start of the game there would never be wait time. It's just another source of money which will keep games like this running longer.

Edited by SolaireTheSunWalker
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The time gating behind everything is the way DE makes money.

And that is freakin' fine. Would you prefer a more classic F2P type ? Like, with one crafting material plat-only ?

Well, I think you're the only one.

Or maybe you want everything free, but guess what ? will never happen.

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22 minutes ago, Net56 said:

I know the community has basically resigned itself to waiting 24 hours for every Forma, 3.5 days for every frame, and 12-24 hours for every weapon.

I'll be honest, didn't read past this part here.  You basically have 3 choices.  Build and wait, Build and rush or buy outright with plat.  3rd option is most expensive, 2nd option not nearly so, 1st option obviously cheapest, in terms of plat cost anyway.  Reverse those costs in terms of time.

You pay for convenience, this is probably the most used stratagem for every free game ever (that wants to make money).  Except most of those other games also allow people to pay for powerful weapons, exclusive powers and hidden advantages.  Those games are commonly labeled pay to win (or p2w).

Warframe is not one of those games, I'll wait and with a smile on my face.

 

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I think the nature of the game already inclines people to spend money. The limitations are already there, and have very little to do with the wait times in the Foundry. Using OmegaSlayer's example, if you already have to wait that long for the Invasion to resolve, then there's no reason to wait even an hour to craft an Alad V key. For something like that, it should just be instant.

We also have to separate the people who actually bought platinum with real money from the people that got their platinum from trading. People who buy platinum with cash usually buy it for a specific reason. From what I've seen, most of that reason is the free market. Primes, for example, can't be bought in a way that avoids the Foundry. In other words, the Foundry wait time can't be skipped unless it's Rushed. Few people ever Rush.

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

I'll be honest, didn't read past this part here.  You basically have 3 choices.  Build and wait, Build and rush or buy outright with plat.  3rd option is most expensive, 2nd option not nearly so, 1st option obviously cheapest, in terms of plat cost anyway.  Reverse those costs in terms of time.

You pay for convenience, this is probably the most used stratagem for every free game ever (that wants to make money).  Except most of those other games also allow people to pay for powerful weapons, exclusive powers and hidden advantages.  Those games are commonly labeled pay to win (or p2w).

Warframe is not one of those games, I'll wait and with a smile on my face.

 

You're cool, I don't think most people did. For a TL;DR, I'm challenging the notion that a significant portion of the playerbase uses options 2 or 3. You're inconvenienced in so many ways outside of the wait time, that the actual timer is pointless.

Can you guys not skip straight to fear and P2W? I don't think deleting the crafting time will destroy DE's profits so hard that they will have to resort to P2W tactics. I know what money is, and I know that the Foundry wait time isn't where they are making it. If it really turned out that badly, they would just put the timer back in the game.

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11 minutes ago, Net56 said:

Can you guys not skip straight to fear and P2W? I don't thinITk deleting the crafting time will destroy DE's profits so hard that they will have to resort to P2W tactics

But this also won't help DE's profits, removing a way to earn money is bad business wise. It wouldn't make sense to remove something that earns money right ? The foundry isn't the only place they're making money that's a given for sure. Prime access, straight up items from the market like forma and cosmetics etc.  But the foundry is one of the other places they are earning money. I've seen many newer players spend a bit of money to buy some stuff and use the rest of their plat to rush the frames they want. More people rush stuff than you really think.

Like I even said before a lot of my friends I know build the three parts of a frame then rush their full build to save time. Many others do this too, I mean I even rushed tons of forma for the sake of memes. I'm sure many others have too.

Edited by SolaireTheSunWalker
Typos .. Typos everywhere
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I don't agree with the complete elimination of waiting times, because everything takes time you know. But I agree on that they should be reduced.

But the No.1 issue here is that the Rush cost don't interact 1:1 with the remaining time

 

IMHO:

Forma crafting time from 24h to 12-16h

Weapons crafting time from 12h to 6-8h and from 24h to 12-16h

All keys that have more than 1 hour craftig time should be 1 or max 3 hour.

Warframe parts 12h are fine, but the warframe itself should be reduced from 72h to 48h.

Blue and Golden potatos are fine as 24h. You don't get that much that frequent anyway.

Exilus Adapter is also fine with 24h.

I am saying this as a MR22 player out of concern for newer players.

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28 minutes ago, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

But this also won't help DE's profits, removing a way to earn money is bad business wise. It wouldn't make sense to remove something that earns money right ? The foundry isn't the only place they're making money that's a given for sure. Prime access, straight up items from the market like forma and cosmetics etc.  But the foundry is one of the other places they are earning money. I've seen many newer players spend a bit of money to buy some stuff and use the rest of their plat to rush the frames they want. More people rush stuff than you really think.

Like I even said before a lot of my friends I know build the three parts of a frame then rush their full build to save time. Many others do this too, I mean I even rushed tons of forma for the sake of memes. I'm sure many others have too.

DE's profits don't need help. Unless it would lose them enough money that they would need to cut something or slow down their production, it doesn't need to be there anymore. We can't be sure of that unless DE makes a statement. This game isn't purely about business, otherwise it would be yet another P2W game. DE cares about more than just money.

It's possible that more people rush stuff than I think, but it's generally considered a waste of platinum. You also touched on two things I said in my OP, since both of the things you mentioned rushing were Forma and frames. What about content outside of those 32 items (31 frames + forma)? Do they still need a wait time?

18 minutes ago, Doxorn said:

I don't agree with the complete elimination of waiting times, because everything takes time you know. But I agree on that they should be reduced.

But the No.1 issue here is that the Rush cost don't interact 1:1 with the remaining time

 

IMHO:

Forma crafting time from 24h to 12-16h

Weapons crafting time from 12h to 6-8h and from 24h to 12-16h

All keys that have more than 1 hour craftig time should be 1 or max 3 hour.

Warframe parts 12h are fine, but the warframe itself should be reduced from 72h to 48h.

Blue and Golden potatos are fine as 24h. You don't get that much that frequent anyway.

Exilus Adapter is also fine with 24h.

I am saying this as a MR22 player out of concern for newer players.

I don't know if you guys realize that they won't reduce wait times for the exact same reasons you guys are giving me. Any reduction in wait time, anywhere, lowers the chance of you buying platinum to avoid it, which makes DE less money. The way I see it, there's no point in going half-way. Just delete them entirely. As far as I know, DE has never budged on the Foundry over the last four years and the community has never made a serious issue of it.

The way I see it, if DE isn't harmed by reducing the crafting times on anything you just mentioned, then it should already be done and they should go a step further. None of those times are going to move unless people say something. Otherwise we're sticking with the 24-hour timer on each Forma forever.

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21 minutes ago, Net56 said:

I don't know if you guys realize that they won't reduce wait times for the exact same reasons you guys are giving me. Any reduction in wait time, anywhere, lowers the chance of you buying platinum to avoid it, which makes DE less money. The way I see it, there's no point in going half-way. Just delete them entirely. As far as I know, DE has never budged on the Foundry over the last four years and the community has never made a serious issue of it.

As you've said above, any reduction in wait time will reduce DE's income, which is why it won't happen.

The reason the community hasn't ever made a serious issue of it is that the majority realise that it is good for the game to maintain a healthy pay/play balance.

22 minutes ago, Net56 said:

The way I see it, if DE isn't harmed by reducing the crafting times on anything you just mentioned, then it should already be done and they should go a step further. None of those times are going to move unless people say something. Otherwise we're sticking with the 24-hour timer on each Forma forever.

I think it was at PAX AUS where Rebecca stated in a quiz that the 3 forma bundle was, unsurprisingly, the best selling item on the market.

Foundry wait times aren't going away, we're 'stuck' with crafting one forma per 24 hours, and I'm happy with that as it's a very fair way to monetise Warframe.

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1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

The reason the community hasn't ever made a serious issue of it is that the majority realise that it is good for the game to maintain a healthy pay/play balance.

That's exactly what I'm arguing against, though. I think we're assuming that the pay/play balance is more delicate than it actually is. We're going so far as to assume that the wait time on Forma justifies the wait time on every other item in the game. Remember, this isn't just about Forma.

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11 minutes ago, Net56 said:

That's exactly what I'm arguing against, though. I think we're assuming that the pay/play balance is more delicate than it actually is. We're going so far as to assume that the wait time on Forma justifies the wait time on every other item in the game. Remember, this isn't just about Forma.

Wait time is part of the 'friction' involved in the free path that encourages players to buy with plat instead of grind/wait, removing wait time will reduce income for DE so they'd have to increase friction elsewhere to compensate.

I'd rather wait up to 3 days for something to build, than have to grind more resources but have no build time.

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15 minutes ago, Net56 said:

That's exactly what I'm arguing against, though. I think we're assuming that the pay/play balance is more delicate than it actually is. We're going so far as to assume that the wait time on Forma justifies the wait time on every other item in the game. Remember, this isn't just about Forma.

The only balance that matters is that the wait time is less punishing than any other F2P games and that you lost nothing by waiting. Until another good F2P game show up and have less wait time than Warframe, there's little merit in making the wait time any less. Based on the many F2P games I have tried, Warframe is the least "greedy" in the sense that you don't feel as hamstrung when you're not constantly throwing cash at them. All the other games have progress that felt like swimming in molasses unless you fork out cash for Premium Time(tm). I don't use the exp or loot boosters here but still feel like progress is going fine.

 

Also I'm fine with the wait time because though I never pay to rush, I know a few who regularly do just that. And I'd rather DE get the money from this instead of trying to find another revenue stream.

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I'm fine with the currently fine with the craft timers execpt warframes 3,5 days for a warframe is a bit much. Also one forma a day is a bit too low  at the rate we can get and how much we need them, 2 forma a day would make it way better since it would mach the forma use/accuire rate better while still keeping it fair for a f2p standpoint. problem could be solved my makeing us build 2 thing as once. maybe introduce secment an upgrade that make us do so

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Haha yeah good luck with that. 

 

A Foundry overhaul would be really nice though. No option to build multiple items, no option to cancel foundry... I mean come on. Those are the most basic features of crafting. Are we gonna use the lazy card for a QoL change again or is someone gonna write me 6 paragraphs of how absolutely gamebreaking crafting 5 Formas at once is?

EDIT : Not at once I suppose. More like "Can we please queue multiple items to on the Foundy?".

Edited by TotallyLagging
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13 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

Are we gonna use the lazy card for a QoL change again or is someone gonna write me 6 paragraphs of how absolutely gamebreaking crafting 5 Formas at once is?

Crafting 5 forma at once would be bad, but being able to queue up 5 forma to build one after the other would be a nice QoL improvement that would have minimal impact on DE's income.

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Just now, ChuckMaverick said:

Crafting 5 forma at once would be bad, but being able to queue up 5 forma to build one after the other would be a nice QoL improvement that would have minimal impact on DE's income.

Ah yeah, probably shoulda clarified that because that's what I meant. Whoops. Build 5 formas for 5 days, rush for 50 or individually for 10. Doesn't sound that bad to me.

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I'm not saying we should be able to craft a S#&$ ton of forma a day that would be game breaking indeed.

We just need to be able to craft 2 at once to make it macth the rate we use them a lot better, also new f2p pleps would very much need this QoL feature to be able to catch up to us Big guys who have put a lot of time in warframe to close the plep to veteran scale a bit better.

this is not just about "I want more forma" it's also about the new guys pushing them towards the higher level stuff a bit faster, that one extra forma a day would be a game changer for people starting out one the game

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The only area I really think we need things speeding up in the foundry is forma production, it should either be 12 hours per forma or better still, allow us to craft multiples at increased cost, similar to the way energy pizza's and ciphers work. 

Other than that I'm quite happy waiting on the rest....

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4 minutes ago, Mcbadguy said:

We just need to be able to craft 2 at once to make it macth the rate we use them a lot better

From your forum account it seems you've been playing for just over a year, are you really telling me you've used over 350 forma so far?

5 minutes ago, Mcbadguy said:

also new f2p pleps would very much need this QoL feature to be able to catch up to us Big guys who have put a lot of time in warframe to close the plep to veteran scale a bit better.

That depends what you mean by 'catch up', it's perfectly possible to get sortie/raid ready with very few forma.

There's no need for new players to be able to reach the diversity that veterans have in a short time-scale, that's what the new players have to look forward to and work towards as they play the game over several years.

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While some wait times are a little bit much, like forma, for example. Remove the wait times and it will become ugly.

Just look at the Hema situation. 3 days of research was not enough for them, so they made a 5k mutagen sample requirement.

Let me warm up my time machine and show you how the foundry will look like after abolishing the wait times:

QCDZIOc.jpg

Are you sure you want this to be implemented?

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