The grind is just ridiculous.

[Gamma745]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

It's simple.  How many go even 40 mins/waves now compared to how many used to?  Many fewer.  Now it's optional as you have pointed out but going 40-60 or beyond used to be a necessity.  Since it is optional many never go further than 20.  This means that the average level of missions completed has decreased.

Sure you can make your own difficulty but there is no reason to anymore so most don't.  I think that change has been bad overall for the community.

So, you just need a reason? How about the simple reason because you want to? and I'm sorry, going beyond 40-60 is a necessity before? I never did, even back in the old void. People might want to maximize their keys, to get the most out of a given key. But it never was "mandatory", for the strictest sense of the word.

With your point, because there are less people going hardcore 2-hour survival / 40 waves of defense, it is bad for the community? Why? Because there are less people willing to go along with you on deep-long endless runs? Because there are less people willing to please you it is bad?

[Misgenesis]

I think the process of getting the reward is a bit too tedious. Either specific relics need to be easier to get or trace gain increased.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

Farming void traces is the main problem, at least through my experience with relic crack'n! 

Getting the relics is very easy, just play the game! Spy, defense (Dark Sectors), and Excavation are where it is at! If someone is wanting specific relics right this moment, good luck with that! This game is designed to be played over time; playing for 8 hours straight to acquire the same relic can be done, but is not cost/time effective. 

You're better off playing a variety of missions over the course of a week, acquiring a bunch of various relics, and then cracking them during an endless. You are then able to receive parts, affinity, credits, and void traces at an increasing rate due to the endless bonuses! 

This really is beneficial as you get Prime part fodder for tradechat platinum or Baro and you get more void traces for a better chance at those rare rewards that will pay dividends for you in the end! 

I am fine with the RNG aspect of the relics as that is simply part of the game. I am also pleased because everyone has to have a relic and contribute! Plus, you have the option of choosing someone else's reward, giving you an even better chance at getting what you actually want. 

I will have to say, as I stated previously, that farming for void traces is a pain. The only real way to offset this is to purchase a resource booster with platinum, but the rewards of getting a lot of void traces for bettering your chances at rare parts, pays for itself... 

Happy Easter, Tenno! 

Also, 

~Do not ask for whom the rabbit hops! For, he hops... for you! 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Reactant is pointless and annoying. Dud excavation the other day...not enough reactant would drop from excavator to excavator. Reactant needs to be removed.

 

Void and derelicts need specific rewards that can only be farmed there. Like axi relics drop exclusively in the void and lith relics drop specifically in the derelicts. Plus remove the need for derelict keys.

[(PSN)psycofang]

9 hours ago, xDampy said:

For the amount of money we have invested into Warframe and supporting the developers, they should be using it to create a more interesting universe. That's what I wish to see in the game which has so much more potential to be great, yet it's all thrown away by bad management decisions by the company which makes it.

 

Youre acting as if you and a collective conscious pf people are regularly paying them large quantities of money.

 

Youve put some money sure but for every buyer vs never pay player its 20 or 30 or higher to 1.  

 

They are a small group and they have living expenses on top of server expenses/marketing etc. All that money doesnt go straight to the game and the money they do get isnt a steady or manageable, its sporadic and unpredictable.

 

But ive already explained all this before and then some. Just put yourself in their shoes with -realistic- cynicism.

Edited April 15, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

Youre acting as if you and a collective conscious pf people are regularly paying them large quantities of money.

 

Youve put some money sure but for every buyer vs never pay player its 20 or 30 or higher to 1.  

 

They are a small group and they have living expenses on top of server expenses/marketing etc. All that money does go straight to the game and the money they do get isnt a steady or manageable, its sporadic and unpredictable.

 

But ive already explained all this before and then some. Just put yourself in their shoes with -realistic- cynicism.

Agree

[Sloan441]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

You don't get it.  No one cares about trash.  I hoped you would see that.

New to ARPG collection games, eh?

I go on about the history of Diablo, PSO (now that puppy got grindy...), PSU, etc. What you have to do here pales in comparison to many older games. True, you have a lot of systems needing stuff stacked all over on top and around each other, but you usually can accomplish more than one thing while looking for the whatsit you're intent on.

The old system was pretty much a PitA. Just getting in a targeted group was an exercise in patience and ultimately frustration if you got some people misrepresenting what they were bringing to the party. I kinda miss the void, but I don't miss the bad behavior.

Ducat farms vary quite a bit, but a bit of forethought goes a ways towards what you want. Like a few others here, I tend to use the 'other' drops to fuel the ducat reserves while looking for things I actually want. I don't have a problem with it. Trace farms are the same deal; a bit of forethought goes a ways. I only farm traces in endless missions. I particularly like Orokin defenses. Most teams will go at least four rounds and a good Mesa or Nova can easily enable any team of tenno to hit 8-12 rounds. Lots of traces, lots of ducat fodder, and maybe even something you want.

Relic farms are very easy, but you have to put a bit of effort in. Bailing after a round or two of Berehynia is robbing yourself of relics you're going to need at some point. All the four families of relics have defenses, intercepts, and excavations that will reliably produce relics you're going to need. You just need to put some time in. Also, keeping syndicate rep up and spending it on relic packs goes a long ways to getting you needed relics when a new PA goes live.

I actually like playing the game and I'm not looking for ways to avoid playing the game. If you're in that camp, you might want to look at another game or at least take a break. I tend to try and focus gameplay around things I want and/or might need later on (the 7Ps...), but I find the actual game mechanics fun and don't have a problem putting in a few hours a day.

 

[Volinus7]

12 hours ago, xDampy said:

You obviously have failed to understand the point I was trying to make. For the amount of money we have invested into Warframe and supporting the developers, they should be using it to create a more interesting universe. That's what I wish to see in the game which has so much more potential to be great, yet it's all thrown away by bad management decisions by the company which makes it.

You meant the majority of investors are dumb and still funding even it went to the wrong path? 

[Volinus7]

3 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

 

Youre acting as if you and a collective conscious pf people are regularly paying them large quantities of money.

 

Youve put some money sure but for every buyer vs never pay player its 20 or 30 or higher to 1.  

 

They are a small group and they have living expenses on top of server expenses/marketing etc. All that money doesnt go straight to the game and the money they do get isnt a steady or manageable, its sporadic and unpredictable.

 

But ive already explained all this before and then some. Just put yourself in their shoes with -realistic- cynicism.

http://leyoutech.com.hk/investors-relation/financial-reports

Not sure but I think we can have another AAA game from that gross profit lol.

[Insane-Mana]

with only reading topic starter post here's my reply:

apart from playing allot, i never focus farm relics/void traces or primed parts. I just play and when i do fissure runs i always go solo or just a pub game. Just playing like that gets me all i need. The only thing i will do sometimes is to go in recruiting chat and host a 40 wave or 45 minute defense/survival. 

In this game time is not money but resources. One time and the last time i tried this rad sharing. omg the time it thoke for the team to fill and make every one happy with roles etc i could have done 20 waves already.

So rather then make groups and wait endless  for a game to start i just play.

To the topic of having stuff, i actually im scared of the day when i own all items in warframe, what reason would there be left to play other then the odd game for fun.

[Me.KayOh]

On 2/3/2017 at 5:54 PM, Trichouette said:

Yeah and during the old void you could farm days of the same mission and not get anything relevant because the loot rate was insignificant and unchanged even if you stayed 3h in the same survival.

And you still had to farm keys.

 

and farming traces and upgrading relics just fixes everything? What's the return rate you've experienced when using upgraded relics huh? Is the chance of you getting the part you hoped for as "radiant" as the relics you used? If the traces and upgrading relics were more effective i'd be all for keeping this new system. But its just a blanket to hide the fact that the same RnG exists from the void system; worse RnG if you dont upgrade the relic. so the answer to the opening question here, is Nope.

The relic system is as lateral a move as you could get. In fact, grinding has now increased; like the OP said, with keys you could have leeched off of someone who had tons of that key. Now you must have a relic to even have a shot at getting anything that drops in the fissure mission.

 

folks, you need to remember the purpose of the relic system; it was never about decreasing the grind. The purpose of the relic system was to make it FEEL LESS like a grindfest by implementing different tilesets. However, there was an opportunity to layer the grind even more, and they took it gladly.

cant do much about that now.

[Jobistober]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

You enjoy picking up reactant?  Half the endless missions are bugged and very often do not drop enough in 5waves/mins or 2 extractors because fissures just stop appearing for no reason.  It literally adds nothing but annoyance to the game.  If it the system actually worked you might have a point, but since it does not you don't.

K

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

4 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

-snip-

That quote had context you did not read. Good day.

7 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

So, you just need a reason? How about the simple reason because you want to? and I'm sorry, going beyond 40-60 is a necessity before? I never did, even back in the old void. People might want to maximize their keys, to get the most out of a given key. But it never was "mandatory", for the strictest sense of the word.

With your point, because there are less people going hardcore 2-hour survival / 40 waves of defense, it is bad for the community? Why? Because there are less people willing to go along with you on deep-long endless runs? Because there are less people willing to please you it is bad?

A reason would be nice.  And while true, that is wasn't technically mandatory 40 min runs were what people did.  Most people would try to stretch their keys because the game asked it from them.  The game asks nothing of them now.

Thanks for trying to paint me as megalomaniac.  It's bad because the average level of player skill has also dropped accordingly.  This promotes laziness.  Surely even you have seen the increase of people complaining about how sorties are too difficult.  Should DE make that easier too?

[Iccotak]

Honestly, take a break from the game. That is what I am doing.
The game is still practically in beta
Grinding is a way DE test game mechanics, weapons, warframes, missions, and level design. 
They simply don't have the resources to constantly pump out story content to fill between grinding. 
While we test stuff out they are working behind the scenes to create story content and slowly flesh out the game

[GeoffFromAccounting]

10 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Honestly, take a break from the game. That is what I am doing.
The game is still practically in beta
Grinding is a way DE test game mechanics, weapons, warframes, missions, and level design. 
They simply don't have the resources to constantly pump out story content to fill between grinding. 
While we test stuff out they are working behind the scenes to create story content and slowly flesh out the game

The game has been "in beta" for four years now. Not only this, but there's a well established micro transaction system in place that no other game that claims to be in beta would have. For all intents and purposes, Warframe is a fully released game that just keeps getting updated (similar to many MMOs that currently exist)

[(PSN)MarsStraub]

No grind = No one plays. The point of the grind is to keep us busy and look forward to drops. It's part of the pigeonhole psychology. The same goes for FPS games nowadays like Call of Duty series, the XP progression and reward meters are what keeps people playing. I enjoy the grind, I love dashing around killing enemies all day long looking for stuff. If there was no grind, the game would be short and I wouldn't come back and play the game again. The devs did a fantastic job implementing a system where it's Free to Play with options for purchasing cosmetics that you could have worked to earn for free. If you don't like the grind, maybe you can just buy the stuff in the game and it'll be a short sweet game for you.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I like the new relic system over the old, but I'd rather the previous Draco affinity farm back due to the manditory 5 forma grind fest involved in leveling weapons or frames for better performances, so maybe amp up the Void's last levels so they dish out pain and high xp. Lastly, I'd like a better Kuva system. The current one makes me want to play anything else, like EVOLVE. Ugh...and that one is awful. Yet, I'd take that nonsense over one more kuva farm to only recieve -138.58 % damage on re-roll number 48. Rivens are more trouble than they are worth at times.

Edited April 16, 2017 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I like the new relic system over the old, but I'd rather the previous Draco affinity farm back due to the manditory 5 forma grind fest involved in leveling weapons or frames for better performances, so maybe amp up the Void's last levels so they dish out pain and high xp. Lastly, I'd like a better Kuva system. The current one makes me want to play anything else, like EVOLVE. Ugh...and that one is awful. Yet, I'd take that nonsense over one more kuva farm to only recieve -138.58 % damage on re-roll number 48. Rivens are more trouble than they are worth at times.

T4 void runs still do boost up the enemies to deal more pain than normal. Fissures of Axi level also still have this trait.

[k05h]

On 3.2.2017 at 10:51 PM, booty_hunter said:

Its not even fun anymore. its just stressful. constantly I have to worry about Traces and the amount of relics I have and then when they dont drop what im looking for I have to repeat the whole process of Farming for the relic then playing like 5 lith relics for the traces and then waiting 5-10 minutes to find a radshare. Only for the part I want not to drop again. With the void system there was no stress involved. all you had to do was use or find someone hosting the key you had to play and then stay for however long you wanted//needed to for the part you wanted. I really want this issue to be addressed. I love this game.

There is great video about this topic from Extra Credits 

 

[Trichouette]

9 hours ago, Church002 said:

and farming traces and upgrading relics just fixes everything? What's the return rate you've experienced when using upgraded relics huh? Is the chance of you getting the part you hoped for as "radiant" as the relics you used? If the traces and upgrading relics were more effective i'd be all for keeping this new system. But its just a blanket to hide the fact that the same RnG exists from the void system; worse RnG if you dont upgrade the relic. so the answer to the opening question here, is Nope.

Well, 10% chance of obtaining the rare part, plus the fact we are 4 with the same radiant relic, that makes it ~34% chance of obtaining a rare.

And to answer, YES I obtained way faster every prime access since the new system got released.

It took me a few days (and I barely played every day) to obtain the banshee prime access, while back then it took me weeks to obtain saryn prime, just because devs used to LOVE puting everything new in the T3 survival key on the C rotation. I spent HOURS in that stupid mission obtaining nothing but trash.

 

9 hours ago, Church002 said:

folks, you need to remember the purpose of the relic system; it was never about decreasing the grind. The purpose of the relic system was to make it FEEL LESS like a grindfest by implementing different tilesets. However, there was an opportunity to layer the grind even more, and they took it gladly.

One of the main purpose was to free us from having to go into the void all days long, and to finally give an use to the star map.

Back then nobody would run anything else than draco or other loot/exp map, and void only.

Now we go a bit everywhere to obtain relics and then run missions on any planet to obtain prime part.

People were tired of the void, and personally I used to hate that tileset (especially because of the white and gold burning my eyes after hours of survival)

[xDampy]

23 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

http://leyoutech.com.hk/investors-relation/financial-reports

Not sure but I think we can have another AAA game from that gross profit lol.

Guess they should outsource their devs to China aswell, huh? Pay quarter as much and pump even more content to grind out more efficiently.

[(PSN)TWxPrimo]

I think someone said this already , but making it at least to where you can get maybe 2-3 parts from the same relic in endless or spy missions would be nice. No more than 3 otherwise its almost guaranteed but just more than one in special cases where you add traces to make it radient and still get on of the common drops😐 hypothetically.

I like the new system better though , hated using 30+ keys and still getiing forma or yet another carrier cerebrum. 

[Me.KayOh]

On 4/16/2017 at 4:30 AM, Trichouette said:

Well, 10% chance of obtaining the rare part, plus the fact we are 4 with the same radiant relic, that makes it ~34% chance of obtaining a rare.

And to answer, YES I obtained way faster every prime access since the new system got released.

It took me a few days (and I barely played every day) to obtain the banshee prime access, while back then it took me weeks to obtain saryn prime, just because devs used to LOVE puting everything new in the T3 survival key on the C rotation. I spent HOURS in that stupid mission obtaining nothing but trash.

 

One of the main purpose was to free us from having to go into the void all days long, and to finally give an use to the star map.

Back then nobody would run anything else than draco or other loot/exp map, and void only.

Now we go a bit everywhere to obtain relics and then run missions on any planet to obtain prime part.

People were tired of the void, and personally I used to hate that tileset (especially because of the white and gold burning my eyes after hours of survival)

well thanks for extending what i said in the second part? because that is exactly what i said, but in more words. it does not reduce the grind. it reduces the feel of the grind.

and for the first part, because it works like that for you, doesnt mean it works like that for everybody. the performance of radiant relics i've used so far is on par with normal intact relics. its no better nor worse. i feel like people forget how RnG works. random is random. you people attach percentages to things and feel that that makes it all better. you're assured that this new relic system "works better" because you were able to "get the banshee prime access in a few days" when in truth, that's just chance; unpredictable outcomes which invalidate whether it is in fact better or not as compared to when you farmed saryn prime. and there's no counterpoint to having to farm the relic that drops the part you need now. unless you have a stockpile of other relics for the same tier and you're going into missions praying that someone will use the relic that drops the part you need. 

also, you prolly have a hell of an easy time rushing to farm the newest relics and make up squads of 4 all with radiants and go and farm the newest prime equipment. but alot of folks dont have that luxury especially if you're stuck farming for the old prime equipment. as far as I see it, this relic system is like using the boltor; spray and pray.

[skinotik]

On 03/02/2017 at 5:03 PM, ashrah said:

i reduced farm  to minimum....i will never forget ember prime helmet farm. over 60 runs in one to get 1 i needed... but still   old void is better...i dont like new relic system at all its just incresed grind...with massive rng... no reson to farm now really..game need to be fun to play not frustration

LULwut ? New system is FAR better than the old one.  Far less grind than before.  Sure ppl can't leech key anymore, but dam I don't understand ppl that complain about the RNG of the new system when it's basicly the same RNG as the old system ...

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I have to agree with Church002, we do forget how easy it is to farm parts when everyone has a the same radiant relic, farming for the same part. RNG is RNG, but it is nice to have 4 times the chances at getting said part than the old void! 

The ol' rotation C was painful and you had to constantly run the same location until round 20, but at least you could get more use out of one key than one relic. 

I said previously that I'm glad that everyone has to have their own relic to participate, and I am, but having four radiant relics also means this may result in four Formas at the results screen... Four relics down per rotation as opposed to one key and four rotations down... 

So spray and pray indeed! This works if everyone is actively collecting and running the same missions and relics together, but falls apart when you either don't have another relic to "sacrifice" or when everyone gets the same reward part at the rewards screen. 

So fishing, but every time you cast your line you have to put another expensive lure on the end as these fish are too fancy to go after plain old worms! 

Happy UnEaster, Tenno!