The Second Stream Podcast: Enemy Designs, Trials, Clans, & More!

[Blakrana]

Quote

What is your first impression of the Eximus weak points?

Hoo...This is likely going to seem harsh and unpopular so I'll apologise in advance.

Personally I think they're endemic of the simple fact that, due to being unwilling to address the level of power we as players have, it heavily reduces what can actually be done with enemies to make them persist longer than it takes for us to click, pull or hit the necessary input to remove them from play. If everything dies in seconds, the only recourse is to make sure it doesn't die in seconds. You admitted as much in stream, after all. People dislike bullet sponges, especially if they're designed around the idea of the exceptional damage values that can be thrown out, so all you're left with is providing them a ward of some form to keep them alive. See Bosses typically relying on such phases to stay relevant, and how even then the moment it drops can spell the end for them.

In a way it's akin to the resources situation; you're trying to find a way to put the genie back into the bottle, long after the fact. Much as hindsight is 20/20, I feel it's very pertinent to sit down and have a long hard think about just what it is you're trying to accomplish. Due to Eximi falling into the 'Quantity' class of enemies, trying to give them weakpoints to make them into a 'Quality' enemy won't work as it's merely a short stop gap before they get squashed as standard. A quality enemy cannot come in bulk values, and you've established Eximi are a bulk enemy 'type'.

Instead...step back and look at the enemies that exist. Consider what function they are intended to serve, and what tier they're meant to be in an encounter. If the aim of 'Damage 3.0' is to, rather than re-evaluate the inordinate power provided by mods, look into making enemies interesting...then look at it as an ecosystem. Look at how you can relegate effective Quantity Enemies amidst Quality enemies, look at how they're done in other games so that an encounter is more dynamic than raw numbers of enemies.

It's entirely possible for you to have Quality enemies in the same encounter as a number of Quantity enemies. Indeed from what I've seen it's often the idea that the Quantity enemies are meant to serve as 'resource provision' when fighting against the stronger Quality enemies. You've a wide plethora of units with potential as Quality type opponents, but so long as the only recourse one has is to just...throw lots of everything, then the effect is diminished and it's what feeds this constant arms race of 'who shoots/CCs first wins'.

Remember that sometimes, Less is More. If Bombards and Napalms spawned less, but were proportionally more formidable to fight (albeit with some tidying on their currently skewed attacks) then they'd have a substantial value proposition compared to the plethora of Grineer grunt units we mulch in a standard fight. Techs, Snipers and of course the loathed Nullifier...all of these could be reduced in number, improved in some manner to make up for that, so that they do impact the flow of the fight, but don't become homogenised.

Eximi meanwhile...they could become distinct on top of this. If we're talking value proposition, then it could go Quantity unit (Lancer/Charger/Crewman) -> Quality Unit (Bombard/Nullifier/Ancient) -> Eximi. If you want Eximi to stand out from the crowd...well, make them not a crowd. Don't spawn them in bulk and give them a real Miniboss feel. Corrupted Vor is, least in my opinion, a great pace changer for me as I can mulch whatever Corrupted are around without really trying, but Vor I've got to move, I've got to aim, I've got to think and it feels great.

Quality Enemies are then the first step towards that, perhaps. The one's that train you to recognise something's dangerous and capable, but beatable. And then when you find an Eximi, it is worthy of Lotus piping up. Look at Prosecutors, she still makes out like they're a tangible threat when they're sorely not. Well...If you want Eximi to be this tangible threat, and indeed Prosecutor's are the First of the Eximi...wouldn't it be impressive to have opponents that are strong and don't rely on hard numbers to put us down? If it gives Lotus cause for concern...Back it up, you know?

I admit, I am no expert on encounter or enemy design. All I've got to work from is my own stupid mistakes when I did some Tabletop GMing, what I find gratifying from combat in other games, and a perhaps what I've picked up from many many books. I do still think there needs to be a look at the Player side output but if you want to try and make enemies interesting...Please consider Quality v Quantity, and creating ways so that we fight the Quality enemy rather than having to either 'Wait it out' or 'poke the specific spot' as Invulnerability warding tends to leave us doing.

Apologies for going on, as always, and I'm sorry if I've over-stepped the boundaries of critique at all. If nothing else, hopefully someone substantially more skilled than I can make the argument with suitable supporting materials.

[Irixa]

#3 Eximus Weakpoints - I do not like the idea because, well, I don't see a problem with the current enemies. "Why 'fix' something that's not broken", so to speak. If this is an "improvement", I suggest a reconsideration. You guys mentioned yourselves that the playerbase does not like invulnerability, soooooo it's surprising it's suddenly gonna be implemented on a common enemy. If there is going to be a weak spot thing around here, I think it shouldn't mean invulnerability for the rest of the body, just higher resistance.

EDIT: Additionally, this would be extremely bad for:

1) Eximus endless missions on sorties. Especially if it's level 80-100 and it's Defense or Interception :/

2) Syndicate Squads

 

Or, if you really want to push through with it, why not make it a special enemy that only has a chance of spawning like the Prosecutor on Ceres, or Grineer Manics? Or limit it to a planet, like Sentients.

 

#4 Kingpin System - I like the idea of it, but I am scared of the actual implementation because of the last clan-related decision: Hema research costs. Like one point raised, please please PLEASE do not assume that every clan is 1) full, and 2) if this was so, that ALL members are active or have the means to effectively/efficiently contribute. MR also comes into play, aside from actual activity. 

 

For this case, maybe you could have tiers in terms of actual clan size, and in terms of MR. Also, I think with regards to the actual (active) size, maybe you, at least, should assume half or 3/4 of the clan is active; or make the challenges correlate with the minimum size of the clan's tier rather than its maximum capacity.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Irixa

[Plushy]

All I have to say is I love the operators but I really don't like how EVERYTHING you can do with them costs a lot of points from a very small supply. It regenerates kinda fast but it just kills the fun (and your operator half the time). It's like stamina 2.0 but way more restricting and makes having fun with operators almost impossible so having more operator only things will just force the unfun on people. I like the idea but I don't think I'll like the actual process of going through it.

[Punchedface]

 

1. What is your first impression of the mini Hyena enemy?

If the spawner and spawns are capped OR the spawns does not have any annoying, zero cooldown staggerfest abilities, then it's sorta cool.

 

3. What is your first impression of the Eximus weak points?

Far more trouble than it's worth. Extremely spongy and cheesy Ancient Healer Eximus and Parasitic Eximus spam is bad enough, now we get a nice 30%-50% chance to have them mostly invulnerable. Let's stop for a second to fire at the weak sp- oh nevermind; Ancient hook spam, Moa stomp and gas spam, and Runner knockdown spam got to me first.

[TheWargiCorgi]

1. I don't like the idea of simply shrinking an existing model and recycling it like that, I would much rather have them have a distinct model and animation set to make them more interesting as a new enemy type.

2. Dingo has a nice ring to it, but I would definitely like to wait a bit and see how it evolves as an enemy type before I really know the name I like the most for sure.

3. I really do not like the idea of health or shield gating to create artificial difficulty in video games (and we already have plenty of that in some boss fights and plainly it's more annoying than it is difficult) 

4. It sounds really interesting to do once or twice, but as far ass long term participation? Well that just depends on what the rewards and incentives are like. If all it is a "weekend grind time waster" that time could be used elsewhere more productively for Primes, Endo, resource, credit, basically any other kind of farm. My suggestion would not necessarily be to lock behind new mods as previously seen in the Index, Silver Grove, Kayla, etc. but also throw in some nice rewards (think Sortie level rewards) and you will draw a much larger consistent following of this new game system.

5. YES. JUST YES. We simply do not have enough game modes to show off our operator fashion and more opportunities to do so would be fantastic. However, that does mean the operator should get a nice polish pass as right now it does feel really clunky to use and some mobility changes to make it feel more fluid would be fantastic. Also having a selection of weaker mods to affect mobility, suitability or damage of the operator would also be a nice addition as well.

[Dousei]

The weak point system we saw in the devstream, to me didn't change anything about the enemy. Before it was "shoot these guys first because they have make things difficult in a room full of enemies" to "shoot these guys first but in very specific places because they make things difficult in a room full of enemies." The point i'm trying to make is that the weakpoint systems takes what we've been doing the whole time and making it more tedious.

I'm only saying that because I know I would have spent way more time than The Lotus did trying to hit these points. Perhaps a solution to the problem would be to make the hitbox on the weak points larger but I feel that would defeat the point of having weak points in the first place. I would rather the mini boss class of enemies behave completely differently than the regular horde of grunts and current eximus classes.

Currently I feel most enemies, with a few exceptions, either are charging at you or shooting at you or grabbing and pulling you. Perhaps the mini boss class enemies could bring an entirely new set of behaviors to the fray. Maybe wide area telegraphed attacks. Perhaps they are constantly moving around the map and striking from vantage points that we'd have to use our ninja mobility to reach. and take down. I would even open the challenge of only being able to do damage to them through certain context actions or reactions. (i.e. perfectly parrying a melee attack or using the MB own weapon or ability against them or even finding and disabling their external power source which spawns with them.)

[Dousei]

4 hours ago, NitroTrigger137 said:

1. I don't like the idea of simply shrinking an existing model and recycling it like that, I would much rather have them have a distinct model and animation set to make them more interesting as a new enemy type.

2. Dingo has a nice ring to it, but I would definitely like to wait a bit and see how it evolves as an enemy type before I really know the name I like the most for sure.

3. I really do not like the idea of health or shield gating to create artificial difficulty in video games (and we already have plenty of that in some boss fights and plainly it's more annoying than it is difficult) 

4. It sounds really interesting to do once or twice, but as far ass long term participation? Well that just depends on what the rewards and incentives are like. If all it is a "weekend grind time waster" that time could be used elsewhere more productively for Primes, Endo, resource, credit, basically any other kind of farm. My suggestion would not necessarily be to lock behind new mods as previously seen in the Index, Silver Grove, Kayla, etc. but also throw in some nice rewards (think Sortie level rewards) and you will draw a much larger consistent following of this new game system.

5. YES. JUST YES. We simply do not have enough game modes to show off our operator fashion and more opportunities to do so would be fantastic. However, that does mean the operator should get a nice polish pass as right now it does feel really clunky to use and some mobility changes to make it feel more fluid would be fantastic. Also having a selection of weaker mods to affect mobility, suitability or damage of the operator would also be a nice addition as well.

I agree with just about everything you said although for question two Dingo just doesn't feel Corpus enough for me. Even though they're all about weaponizing technology their also business minded to a religious extent. So I feel like their creations would be more reflected in the naming of their creations. I was thinking it would be cool to use the name for an animal in a different language than english to see if something doesn't sound more Corpus.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that their small and threatening I assume so I would want to name them after the Tasmanian Devil. But since that doesn't really fit the common corpus naming convention I was thinking of the Latin name Dasyurid which is the family the Tassy Devil belongs too (I wikipedia'd that :p) or something like that.

[tbeest]

On weakspots:

The thing with weak spots is, is that most enemies can turn on a dime. Even the AW ship destroy (can't think of the name) ship turns so fast for it's bigger size. Having weakspots anywhere else other than the front (such as head) sounds like a bad idea. Especially when it'll a limb that moves.
And with the amount of enemies swarming at you, you don't have time for those carefully aimed headshots, let alone a tiny weakspot somewhere on the body.
CC is already king and going anywhere without it if this happens would be insane.

All new slow moving and turning, distinctable enemies with special weakspots could be interesting. But random spots scattered around the body of existing enemies? Please don't... 

_{If it HAS to happen, and the amount of spots has to scale, please cap it at 3 or 4. And do implement some changes for Eximus Stronghold sortie, that'd be insane.}

[VexxJC]

Idea for the second question: Cubs, just cause that what baby hyenas are called. I see myself saying saying leave a cub alive let the pod heal on a defence

[andre_alaran]

hi everybody:

1 & 2.- i dont like it. no more copy and pastes enemies, no pokeballs and no pokemon please, we already have maggots and crawlers in infest faction. i think that the corpus should of have more robots, more largerst and with other concepts of animals. like a gorilla tank.

3.- i dont like it, i prefer more infested enemies in the battleground, i think the really difficult and strategy of the infested faction are the huge hordes.

4.- my clan prefer to play waves o survivers missions. i only play others missions for the rewards.

5.- i dont like the operation mode, i started play warframe because it was a third person shooter no an action-adventure video game. i only use the focus school zenurik (Energy Overflow) is the new Energy Siphon. all the power of the operator, why it cant be used through the warframe? I think that warframe should return to its roots.

 

 

thank you very much for this amazing videogame :D

 

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by andre_alaran

[Roughcut]

the weakspots should make the infested more resistant to damage, no invincible, that way you could still brute-force them, but have incentive for skilled targeting and attacking.

alternatively, make destroying the weakspots DEAL large amounts of damage to the infested, to make them easier to kill, but requiring a different approach.

this is a better compromise to SKILLED gameplay rather than "hit small spot or GTFO noob" I don't think anyone wanted invincible enemies

[SilentCynic]

13 hours ago, Blakrana said:

-snip-

Eruditely put. Perhaps the solution to this eximus weakspot conundrum is to not put the weakspots on eximi to begin with. Instead, fuse the challenge into a new enemy, one that's just rare enough to have it stand out as a unique experience.

[k05h]

5 - more operator modes?

I am not very interested in an additional operator mode. I play Warframe for the fast paced action and because of the power fantasies it offers. Operator mode feels like a walking simulator - slow and clunky.

Edited February 6, 2017 by k05h

[Pr1destalker]

2. Ninjon

[Somb3rBivalve]

1. I like it
2. Sorry no opinion, wasn't feeling very creative
3. I don't really think that the introduction of weakpoints is a bad idea, but this needs a lot of work from what I saw in the devstream. For one, these weakpoints need to be glowing and therefore a lot more visible. As they are right now, it will be very hard to see them in the think of combat. In addition, I don't like the idea of eximi getting invulnerability from attacks, and it would be better if they got damage reduction. However, it's important that this is straight damage reduction that can't be affected by anything and not armor. If it's armor, players will just cheese through it with corrosive projection, and armor reducing abilities, and there would be little point to killing the weakpoints.
4. They look cool. I'm interested to see what rewards you have for these. I am a little scared though of these kingpins attacking our dojos. I don't want them to be able to destroy the hard work that we have done. Maybe they can infiltrate the dojo upon us visiting it at a random time but can't destroy anything, and we just have to clear them out. Alternatively, they could attack the solar rails the clans control. This would be nice for when you guys inevitably redo dark sectors.
5. They would be a good idea for some interesting rewards, but don't overdo it.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Somb3rBivalve
more stuff about kingpins

[TheHappyTyranid]

Personally, I hate the weak spots because they are, first off, so small. It's tiny crystal that sticks out of the unit, and it's hard to hit. Secondly, it's freaking crystals; you couldn't do better with cysts, like the one we get from Helmith? The crystals doesn't seem very infested. However; tumors, cysts, deformities, fossilized armor, and extra limbs sound normal. Maybe make it diverse! Arms and cysts that you have to shoot! That'd be nice!

Also, the Kingpin thing would take A LOT of effort to make it completely original, plus, that would be hard as all heck for ghost clans to take down their kingpin. I'd also like to see kingpins for Alliances, and maybe AI controlled alliances for things like solar rail, to revive it. Or maybe Kingpins working together within people with an alliance.  Still, while a nice idea, it's going to be very complicated.

[k05h]

This is my feedback for the entire podcast.

Short version: the best podcast so far!

Long version: I just wanted to add that this podcast was the best one you made so far. I was more than just distributing news via audio file. In contrast to all previous episodes it was refreshing that guests and hosts were not always of the same opinion. This was the first time you had a real discussion about important topics. I absolutely enjoyed how you took examples from other games to openly talk about boss fights and invincablity states.

Kudos to Brozime who provided a lot of constructive and well thought-through feedback/criticism, and kudos to Rebecca for knowing so many games / game mechanics and the professional way she handled criticism.

I also loved the part about fashion frame 3.0.

Edited February 7, 2017 by k05h

[Larvatheoz]

1. What is your first impression of Hyena mini the enemy?

2 Fun question: What would you call it instead of "mini Hyena"?

3 What is your first impression of the Eximus weak points?

4 From what was shown on "Kingpins", do you think your Clan will participate in them?

5 Would you like more "Operator only" missions or objectives?

 

1-Why a faction focused on  belic progress and technology will create a smaller version and less deadly than the other one they already possess? instead of tanks, terminators, a giant t-rex a transformer. No, the mini hyena would be a better idea....

Why hyena and why small and trowing electric shots? whats the purpose? who asked for that?.  is due to the departure of alad v? does he tooked all the Department of technological advances with him?

 

2.-no Opinion

 

3.-The game is dynamic, I understand that the devs  wished it to be dynamic, the majority of the players we are accustomed to the game shoot and slash fast dynamic, then why stop firing at precise points on 1 Monster? that would be more like for a boss in my opinion. I consider the factions doesnt need a balance of power. I think its ok for  them to have variants in his soldiers; and I hope not to see a grinner and an infested nullifier. No more charger texture recycle please.

 

4.-First: my clan got 24, but 10 of them connect regularly I think some of the clans could be in this same situation and others maybe can be larger than mine, then if you are creating a system that force the entire clan to participate at the same time to to get something in groups according to the number of the members then no... But i can`t say no drastically because we need to know more about that "kingpins" idea.

Second: we have the invasions, which I do not see them being played by many people; We have alerts that if perhaps you play them is for nitain, catalizers, rectors, especial items or lvl. We also have the conclave with a not very well adjusted matchmaking; I like the pvp but there are no people in the rooms if theres no event on conclave. We have the dark sektors not being played by many except for the credits or in some cases special drops, but we dont play all the sectors and i at least dont play it for fun. All part of a compendium of anot bad but not very well grounded idea, and at the end we have content that we don't play a lot. Really... would it be appropriate to add another new game mode? or better reflect if what already exists should be removed or adjusted?

 

5.-This is a sensitive issue since so many likes the operator, I dont find this coherent, having a warframe which is a living armor equipped for war according to the current context, having to pop out the operator to be fired; much less being a teenager. If this will be based on votes for the decisions of content is fine, but keep in mind that not always what most think is the best choice. I do not like operator and i would like the opportunity to remove it, or send it to the sanctuary of simaris or the Moon again. I see no benefit in poping out the operator except for activating school skills or catch kuva and the truth is not of my interest to see him doing more beyond that; since I don't see some sense on it.

 

Greetings Tennos!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Larvatheoz

[dstrawberrygirl]

1: Love it!

2: Bobcat

3: Making eximus invulnerable aside from specific target points? No thanks! Make it so they still take damage, but a reduced amount until the weak point is destroyed. A 50% or 75% reduction in damage taken by those units while they have weak points attached, I could probably get on board with that... but I'm giving a big no on the invulnerable eximus.

4: Kingpins look awesome! But please make them something you can tackle with two or more players. Some clans are very VERY small - if we can't do Kingpins as duos, they'll be as useless to me as raids. I have other friends, but we're all in different clans... I'm not switching clans after all the work my friend and I have put into our dojo and research.

5: Operators* are hard to justify and under-used right now... they currently only have one dedicated purpose, and they're not much fun to play with outside of that. Most missions = why switch to operator when I can have superpowers? Aside from resetting sentient immunity, they're mostly just not useful when compared to our powers and weapons. If we can have interesting game modes - perhaps maw-transference or something that only an operator can do due to blah blah space magic then perhaps - as long as it's interesting and has a good reward then yes. 

*aesthetically, their idle animations and animation transitions feel clunky and rushed. No-one stands that still and bolt-upright - have you ever seen any teenager stand like that and not slouch? Especially since these teens probably have extremely weak muscles due to them spending most of their lives sitting in a chair, playing with Warframes.

[Ironelle]

#3 Eximus weak points, I don't like it. 

• On adding to the eximus: Not necessary, we could be given a completely new enemy.  Why recycle content?
• current spawn rates: around Q4 of 2015 I noticed the spawn rates were cranked up, especially in higher end content.  Assuming spawn rates stay high, this has the potential to break high end gameplay.  Specifically we see issues right now with too many nullifiers, drain exemi, sappers and techs.  This solution will only exacerbate the problem
  • I personally enjoyed the days when Warframe was more a tactical shooter.  I assume the spawn rate increase was an attempt to counter power creep (and I observe that the time frame coincides with the addition of the focus system and introduction of sorties along with the existence of P4TW).  Gameplay changed to be less tactical (an understatement I feel) and only reactive.  There is a relevant blog on the warframe wiki that asks if warframe is trying to be tactical shooter or a hack and slash. 
• Though defeating an invul. exemus is tactical play, it won't work in the current game because the game punishes tactical play in it's current state.  I.e. as stated above,  the content these units will appear in is content that already overwhelms players, so tactical play is not a viable option.

#4 My clan will not participate, though I am interested and want to participate

• I most likely will not change clans
• My clan is ghost clan and I am maybe the last active player, and I am not even the clan leader.
• I have a large investment in the clan, being that all members are local IRL friends.  A year ago we had 4 active players.
• Those mentioned above are mastery rank - 22, 22, 21, and 19 if my memory is any good.

@[DE]Steve  P.S.  I love your streams.  I recommend you make a second account to experience end-game game play, because I think it is equally critical to the new player experience.  At the rate you are going, you will never get there (you know having a job and all, playing once a week :) ).

note: bold text is used for the purpose of exec summary, not to brow beat.

[Rauxon]

Eximus Weak Spot

Really don't like this idea, as shown in the devstream.  This is going to either make AoE weapons amazing (if the weak spot is hit), or completely useless (if it isn't).  Balance for this and the different weapon types is going to be almost impossible - unless of course this is the whole point?  With something like a 75%/90% reduction, and the weak spot not being hit, these would then give people the option of just plugging away or shifting to an accurate weapon.  I prefer the idea that someone else mentioned of a per faction mini-assassin:

• Corpus have a stealth osprey that hangs back and causes more co-ordination for attacks from the robotics (spot the shimmer, beam from it to things as they get updated orders, etc).
• Grineer have a phalanx group of shield bearers (every <x> time one of the shields moves slightly creating a small hole that fills in again soon after).  This would be very slow, the weak spot would be quite big (hence not same a small crystal)
• Infested already have juggernaut.
• Corrupted... Not sure, probably something to do with the tower sentry?  Dampening field emitted from nodes on the walls that prevent anything other than melee within the room?  So move onto another room, or destroy the nodes.

The lag/latency associated with the current netcode is going to make this issue worse - I'd say that as a client there's a 10% chance on a mission that I just put my normal weapons away and use only the zenistar/telos-boltace to cope with the lag.  It's not uncommon for a 90ms mission to jump to 200ms (or a lot higher) once there are more than 20 enemies around.

 

Operator Missions

The controls in operator form just don't work for me.  You jump, see motions for moving forward a lot, and then land about 50cm in front of where you took off.  Switching to/from has a lag of about .5s which is really jarring.  The controls for triggering abilities and the energy display in the middle being just a colour change - none of that works for me.  I go into my operator form as little as possible, I understand it from a lore perspective but I just don't like the implementation.  It reminds me of other games where for a quest you end up playing a different character - I pick to go in as <x> not <y> because I prefer to play as <y>.  Forcing me to play <x> is going to make me avoid that mission type as much as possible.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Rauxon
Clarify how phalanx is not a weak spot :D

[PeaceToall]

3. eximus with weak point is great IF there is a big reward for doing so and didn't have a weak spot behind the said enemy, or give them a 90% damage reduction on other part until you destroy the weak point, or change the weak point to weak spot much like banshe sonar glows on the eximus body part so we can hit it from behind or in front

[Opkier]

2. Fun question: What would you call it instead of "mini Hyena"?

It looks more like a Puma.

What is your first impression of the Eximus weak points?

I don't care for complete invulnerability.  Eximus units are already 1) a priority target as is due to the hazard they represent through their auras (I'd almost push some of them like drain and toxic ones to be near bullS#&amp;&#036; levels, even arctic ones due to their shield being used to protect their allies) 2) They seem already more durable than the regular mobs, making them a pain to deal with as is.

 I would like to see these weakpoints being a point of reward for the players using weapons that target them (either bonus damage similar to headshots)(rewarding players for bringing non aoe weapons, snipers, bows, etc that are usually ignored at higher level in favor of shotguns and aoe guns), or even being used against the horde (aoe proc on destruction of weak point, similar to syndicate procs from guns, based on what kind of Eximus it is).

 

[Chipputer]

On 2/4/2017 at 10:01 AM, ensignvidiot said:

I really do not like the trend of using invulnerability as difficulty.

"I don't like enemies with invulnerability because it isn't actual difficulty."

On 2/4/2017 at 10:01 AM, ensignvidiot said:

Give enemies interesting mechanics to kill them like the Kuva Gaurdians.

"Make more enemies like this one invulnerable one, though."

 

?????????????????

[ensignvidiot]

6 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

"I don't like enemies with invulnerability because it isn't actual difficulty."

"Make more enemies like this one invulnerable one, though."

 

?????????????????

Kuva Gaurdians have an interesting mechanic that involves using my operator to make them vulnerable so I can one shot him.

 

It's not like captain vor, lech kril, infested alad, and manics, which have significant "health gates" that force you to slog through invulnerability before you can kill them. 

Kuva Gaurdians and nullifiers can both be killed immediately, provided you follow with the correct technique. 

KG permanentlylose invulnerability once they are blasted then dashed by an operator.

Nullifiers stop protecting things if you keep shot ting the bubble.... or you shoot/stab them in the face from inside the bubble.

Both of them encourage gameplay. Not timegating or healthgating to slow down an otherwise high-paced game.

 

Weakpoints would mean that I have to stop focusing on the objective to carefully aim at each one and destroy it. As Rebecca demonstrated, shotgun spread isn't enough to take care of them, and to top it off, they can spawn on the BACK of an enemy,  which FORCES me to run solo/public missions with VERY specific frames if I'm going to counter it on my own (As hopefully bastille should still prove effective).

 

Nullifiers and Gaurdians are at least interesting, but this infested weakpoint idea just seems like a ham-fisted attempt at trying to give the infested race something to let them content with Broken High Mastery players