Eximus Change: Lazymus

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Giving invincibility to Eximus enemies is the laziest, most unimaginative idea DE has ever come up with. To begin with, Eximus enemies aren't even that special. Paint an enemy with orange, give it a power and, with the most recent announcement, call it a mini-boss. There. Eximus aren't mini-bosses and they never will. They just so happen to a be a stronger version of an already existing enemy. You know what a mini-boss is? A Juggernaut is a great example. This idea is terrible and I'm certain I'm not alone in this.

Edited February 4, 2017 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

You are not alone, sir. +1

... and another +1 for "lazymus."

[artemisfortune]

There have been 20 thread with the same topic in the past hour. What're you offering as a way to change it?

Also, I can name 4 horde based games with invincibility modes on their mini-boss enemies.

And, again, what's your idea? You're just going to S#&$ on something we haven't experienced yet because other people are? Or are you going to give some other solutions to the blandness that is enemies right now?

People are just regurgitating the same phrases over and over without any hint of new ideas, and the ones that do are still riddled with "DE is lazy because coming up with engaging content for their long term and new players alike is hard". I mean come on guys. Be reasonable adults here.

And the worst part is people like me have to be very careful about how we approach threads like this because of how easy it is to be reported and given a warning point nowadays.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

And the worst part is people like me have to be very careful about how we approach threads like this because of how easy it is to be reported and given a warning point nowadays.

While I may not agree with you, that's just wrong! Unless you're being a complete $%^&hole, there's no need for points.

[Hemmo67]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

There have been 20 thread with the same topic in the past hour. What're you offering as a way to change it?

Also, I can name 4 horde based games with invincibility modes on their mini-boss enemies.

And, again, what's your idea? You're just going to S#&$ on something we haven't experienced yet because other people are? Or are you going to give some other solutions to the blandness that is enemies right now?

People are just regurgitating the same phrases over and over without any hint of new ideas, and the ones that do are still riddled with "DE is lazy because coming up with engaging content for their long term and new players alike is hard". I mean come on guys. Be reasonable adults here.

And the worst part is people like me have to be very careful about how we approach threads like this because of how easy it is to be reported and given a warning point nowadays.

+1

if only there was mute option in forum

totally agree btw complaining over an idea is plainly stupid

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, Hemmo67 said:

+1

if only there was mute option in forum

totally agree btw complaining over an idea is plainly stupid

It's not even complaining I have a problem with. Complain all you want, but while you do so, have something to say. Go into general feedback right now and the first page is probably around 65-70% eximus threads all calling DE lazy, and the few that offer actual ideas are still calling them lazy and just reposting an idea that is already present.

Making video games is @(*()$ hard guys. That's what it comes down to. Making engaging but balanced combat is not easy. Look at a lot of games coming out recently. They're either to stupidly easy or too hard for the sake of being hard. People forget what fun is, both developers and players, and we all end up arguing again and again.

I mean for christ's sake I'm starting to hate video games as a whole because of it. It's not about fun anymore, it's about being right. Video game communities have become religious and political in nature, where if you don't agree you're the scum of the earth.

Grah.

[Hemmo67]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

It's not even complaining I have a problem with. Complain all you want, but while you do so, have something to say. Go into general feedback right now and the first page is probably around 65-70% eximus threads all calling DE lazy, and the few that offer actual ideas are still calling them lazy and just reposting an idea that is already present.

Making video games is @(*()$ hard guys. That's what it comes down to. Making engaging but balanced combat is not easy. Look at a lot of games coming out recently. They're either to stupidly easy or too hard for the sake of being hard. People forget what fun is, both developers and players, and we all end up arguing again and again.

I mean for christ's sake I'm starting to hate video games as a whole because of it. It's not about fun anymore, it's about being right. Video game communities have become religious and political in nature, where if you don't agree you're the scum of the earth.

Grah.

wow :|

u made me wordless

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

5 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

It's not even complaining I have a problem with. Complain all you want, but while you do so, have something to say. Go into general feedback right now and the first page is probably around 65-70% eximus threads all calling DE lazy, and the few that offer actual ideas are still calling them lazy and just reposting an idea that is already present.

Making video games is @(*()$ hard guys. That's what it comes down to. Making engaging but balanced combat is not easy. Look at a lot of games coming out recently. They're either to stupidly easy or too hard for the sake of being hard. People forget what fun is, both developers and players, and we all end up arguing again and again.

I mean for christ's sake I'm starting to hate video games as a whole because of it. It's not about fun anymore, it's about being right. Video game communities have become religious and political in nature, where if you don't agree you're the scum of the earth.

Grah.

A solution? Give Eximus units unique models, behaviors more detailed abilities and ways of taking them down. Something that actually feels like a mini-boss and not a bandaid

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

14 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

What're you offering as a way to change it?

Don't implement it

saves DE time and money 

[artemisfortune]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

A solution? Give Eximus units unique models, behaviors more detailed abilities and ways of taking them down. Something that actually feels like a mini-boss and not a bandaid

That's wishful thinking, not an idea.

The unique models is down to the art department and are really irrelevant, as long as they stand out who cares, right? So that's out the way.

As far as detailed abilities go, I agree, but how would you do it? What would you do to make them more detailed? Right now it's all auras, so would you give them frost's ice wave? Saryn's molt? What? I mean we could brainstorm forever but what kind of abilities are we talking?

and taking them down, that's what weakspots would be, but people get upset over invulnerability periods so what do you suggest? Lost planet two had weakspots that worked really well. What about a parry system? I mean weakspots are used in all kinds of games for different purposes. Dragon's Dogma's enemies all have weakspots that cause massive damage when hit. What about something like that?

Edited February 4, 2017 by JSharpie

[Lyravain]

2 minutes ago, SpeedOfLightPuncher said:

Don't implement it

saves DE time and money 

+1 sir for logic. Use those resources for something else.

Just now, JSharpie said:

That's wishful thinking, not an idea.

The unique models is down to the art department and really irrelevant, as long as they stand out who cares, right? So that's out the way.

As far as detailed abilities go, I agree, but how would you do it? What would you do to make them more detailed? Right now it's all auras, so would you give them frost's ice wave? Saryn's molt? What? I mean we could brainstorm forever but what kind of abilities are we talking?

and taking them down, that's what weakspots would be, but people get upset over invulnerability periods so what do you suggest? Lost planet two had weakspots that worked really well. What about a parry system? I mean weakspots are used in all kinds of games for different purposes. Dragon's Dogma's enemies all have weakspots that cause massive damage when hit. What about something like that?

Or how about they keep what they have, give them a bigger size and a special 'faction' ability (i.e. Grineer teleport, Corpus drop EMPs and Infested use 'Volt' shields to keep themselves safe from a direction). There are ways.

Warframe is not Dragon's Dogma. And frankly, we already have weakspots -this little thing called a 'headshot'? Massive, massive damage if you know how to use them.

Just admit it; invulnerability is the laziest, worst possible idea for development. And as for counter-ideas? Look around the forums, as you said, 20 threads, some must have a good idea or two. God-mode is never a good idea.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

16 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

It's not even complaining I have a problem with. Complain all you want, but while you do so, have something to say. Go into general feedback right now and the first page is probably around 65-70% eximus threads all calling DE lazy, and the few that offer actual ideas are still calling them lazy and just reposting an idea that is already present.

Making video games is @(*()$ hard guys. That's what it comes down to. Making engaging but balanced combat is not easy. Look at a lot of games coming out recently. They're either to stupidly easy or too hard for the sake of being hard. People forget what fun is, both developers and players, and we all end up arguing again and again.

I mean for christ's sake I'm starting to hate video games as a whole because of it. It's not about fun anymore, it's about being right. Video game communities have become religious and political in nature, where if you don't agree you're the scum of the earth.

Grah.

I can't say your wrong.

What I can say, is I usually give criticisms with feedback.

As far as Dev bashing, I'm not really into that, but I will call out a bad idea when I see it. Based off of the track record of how these types of changes have been conceived and then instituted, I can see some obvious scaling issues, along with the fast-paced nature of this game, making things unnaturally difficult for no good reason.

I was in a sortie eximus last night and it was not a super high level (at least at first) but then it got nuts. There were no nullifiers, due to it being grineer, but that really didn't make it that much easier. After a few short minutes, I had no energy, could barely move or stand up (due to the frequency of radial fire explosions and snow-globes) and could be 1-shot repeatedly. Don't get it twisted, I finished the mission in one go, but the enemies were more than enough in terms of strength and resistance (and again, this wasn't a super high level).

Edited February 4, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[artemisfortune]

Just now, Lyravain said:

+1 sir for logic. Use those resources for something else.

Or how about they keep what they have, give them a bigger size and a special 'faction' ability (i.e. Grineer teleport, Corpus drop EMPs and Infested use 'Volt' shields to keep themselves safe from a direction). There are ways.

Warframe is not Dragon's Dogma. And frankly, we already have weakspots -this little thing called a 'headshot'? Massive, massive damage if you know how to use them.

Just admit it; invulnerability is the laziest, worst possible idea for development. And as for counter-ideas? Look around the forums, as you said, 20 threads, some must have a good idea or two. God-mode is never a good idea.

It's replies like this that really make me the angriest, and I won't even pretend like it doesn't make me angry anymore. I get seething with rage and it's frustrating.

It's when people miss the point entirely. Saying stuff like "you can't ever be right so give up, just admit it." Like what the hell? What does that mean? Admit what? It's subjective what we're talking about here, there is no admitting right or wrong. Plenty of games have bosses or mini-bosses with invulnerability periods, hell Warframe has plenty that are easy to deal with. People constantly look at it in black and white instead of looking at the big picture.

I mean why be so adverse to change? Eximus has been a boring enemy for a long time, and here DE comes trying to spice things up and release one little tidbit about it and we all lose our minds over it. It could be nice to have invulnerability periods negated by hitting weakpoints with the spawnrate of eximus units reduced and the removal of auras. It could be nice to increase their health pool and hitting certain parts or severing certain parts of them off make them take more damage. There a possibilities that could be explored that people are just ignoring because it's different.

And that to me is just stupid.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

9 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

It could be nice to have invulnerability periods negated by hitting weakpoints with the spawnrate of eximus units reduced and the removal of auras. It could be nice to increase their health pool and hitting certain parts or severing certain parts of them off make them take more damage. There a possibilities that could be explored that people are just ignoring because it's different.

I'll give you that. If that was what they would do, I'd have less of a problem, if any at all. My main issue is the spawn rate and then the auras, but more the spawn rate with the auras. Less spawns/no auras, weak points can be hit with explosives and radial damage... sold!

I just don't see this happening and once you bring something to the in-game testing phase, like they showed (not mock-ups or polygons or anything), it's less and less likely that they will change it, cause it's close to being finished and they have time-tables. I mean, let's be real, how much do you hate having to redo something your almost done with?

Edited February 4, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Oystar]

this is tedium, not challenge id rather they give eximus insane mobility and let the jump on walls never run in a straight line, think zanuka but have her speed multiplied by 10, then you turn off the spawn cap on infested and double all the infested speed, and while were at it get rid of eximus all together and create interesting mini boss enemies instead, ive never liked the way eximus were implemented and i especially don't like the tacky orange glow

[Lyravain]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

It's replies like this that really make me the angriest, and I won't even pretend like it doesn't make me angry anymore. I get seething with rage and it's frustrating.

It's when people miss the point entirely. Saying stuff like "you can't ever be right so give up, just admit it." Like what the hell? What does that mean? Admit what? It's subjective what we're talking about here, there is no admitting right or wrong. Plenty of games have bosses or mini-bosses with invulnerability periods, hell Warframe has plenty that are easy to deal with. People constantly look at it in black and white instead of looking at the big picture.

I mean why be so adverse to change? Eximus has been a boring enemy for a long time, and here DE comes trying to spice things up and release one little tidbit about it and we all lose our minds over it. It could be nice to have invulnerability periods negated by hitting weakpoints with the spawnrate of eximus units reduced and the removal of auras. It could be nice to increase their health pool and hitting certain parts or severing certain parts of them off make them take more damage. There a possibilities that could be explored that people are just ignoring because it's different.

And that to me is just stupid.

You can be as angry as you wish -I will not blame you for it so express yourself as you wish. Gods know I get angry too.

I told you to admit that god-mode is lazy and a terrible idea design-wise. Thing is, have you noticed what type of games have invulnerability phases? What their combat is like? What happens on the screen? How many fx we got bombarding our eyes? Let me ask you, have you ever played Dynasty Warriors, any game of the series? Horde hack-and-slash, very similar to Warframe in that regard (and a very fun game to chill out on as well). Amidst a horde of enemies, even with its lacking fx, it's aggravating to have to single out the invincible unit and attack its weakpoints to then be able to kill it. So yeah, I look at it in black and white because I cannot see a single good point about god-moding random enemies in a horde. In a boss fight, or a miniboss where things are controlled, sure, go ahead, gonna annoy me, but that's what challenges are for. But Rebecca had trouble with one of them. Just one, sole enemy. So yeah, I'm going to state how terrible an idea that is from now, because I haven't seen DE change their mind after doing something terrible, only patch it up in the most haphazard manner. I'd rather not have to deal with 'oh we reduced the chance of them spawning'. I want to avoid that  completely.

I am not averse to change -you might have noticed I did put up some ideas for Eximi. And DE is welcome to spice up the game. But not in lazy ways that they're then going to regret, but not remove because of pride, only patching up issues that shouldn't even have been here. Besides, you might think it would be cool to have invincible enemies the first few times you face them, but they quickly become irritating. Need I remind you of Bursas? they were interesting when first introduced, but now people rush to hacking consoles because killing them is a chore (well, personally, I don't mind them, they don't slow me down any more).

What's bothering us is that, instead of exploring possibilities (dunno, by asking us maybe?), DE went for the straight up, laziest excuse to create a fake extension in how long it takes us to kill an eximus. There are ways to make them more fun, more dangerous, more of a 'presence' on the battlefield. But they are ways that'll need more coding, more attention and more work than a god-mode switch implementation.

The fact that DE doesn't bother to check these possibilities out, to me, is just lazy.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

3 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

"snip"

Very well said.

Edited February 4, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Aearie]

12 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I mean why be so adverse to change? Eximus has been a boring enemy for a long time, and here DE comes trying to spice things up and release one little tidbit about it and we all lose our minds over it. It could be nice to have invulnerability periods negated by hitting weakpoints with the spawnrate of eximus units reduced and the removal of auras. It could be nice to increase their health pool and hitting certain parts or severing certain parts of them off make them take more damage. There a possibilities that could be explored that people are just ignoring because it's different.

And that to me is just stupid.

But this isn't change. Other enemies already have this design, Bursas being a good example. As such, I don't really see this as "spicing things up". Also, yes, this idea may (may being the keyword) work if they reduce spawnrates and remove auras. But that is wishful thinking; you're assuming they are doing these things. We are going on the information they have released so far. If they didn't want this reaction, they should have added that they will be tuning spawnrates or what have you to deal with this.

And that's assuming they have any plans to do that in the first place. Again, we don't know, we are just going by what we have right now until they release more information. Personally, I'd rather we didn't wait for the possibility that they will, because then they might assume that we are fine with this idea. Also, people on the forums and the reddit are exploring these possibilities. Whether or not you find these posts is another story, obviously you have the sift through some, shall we say, less detailed posts.

And on a side note, Lazymus made me laugh, so that makes the post relevant in my book.

[JalakBali]

6 hours ago, Lyravain said:

Or how about they keep what they have, give them a bigger size and a special 'faction' ability (i.e. Grineer teleport, Corpus drop EMPs and Infested use 'Volt' shields to keep themselves safe from a direction). There are ways.

Good lord. Do you even read what you wrote?

Teleport on Grineer is already in. We have Manics. With the added bonus of invisibility and invul time and even a one-hit-kill move and how many threads are complaining about them? Most of the time the players heard the laugh and asked "Did a Manic just spawned?" and got the reply "Dunno, I can't see anything with all these Simulor balls but I just got an Ash part".

 

Corpus EMPs? REALLY? You want to make them take away our energy even more? I'd rather deal with an invul unit that I can slowdown with my powers so I could shoot three parts on its body and then kill him than have a unit that takes away all our energy . Did you play the event where you fight mostly high level Magnetic Hyenas?

 

Infested with frontal shields? So basically a Bursa Infested? Is anyone still complaining about Bursas that didn't start a week ago? Bursas are not even a factor anymore, despite all the threads complaining about them (just like these) when they first appeared. They're only a problem when they spawned by the dozens.

[Lyravain]

5 hours ago, JalakBali said:

Good lord. Do you even read what you wrote?

Teleport on Grineer is already in. We have Manics. With the added bonus of invisibility and invul time and even a one-hit-kill move and how many threads are complaining about them? Most of the time the players heard the laugh and asked "Did a Manic just spawned?" and got the reply "Dunno, I can't see anything with all these Simulor balls but I just got an Ash part".

 

Corpus EMPs? REALLY? You want to make them take away our energy even more? I'd rather deal with an invul unit that I can slowdown with my powers so I could shoot three parts on its body and then kill him than have a unit that takes away all our energy . Did you play the event where you fight mostly high level Magnetic Hyenas?

 

Infested with frontal shields? So basically a Bursa Infested? Is anyone still complaining about Bursas that didn't start a week ago? Bursas are not even a factor anymore, despite all the threads complaining about them (just like these) when they first appeared. They're only a problem when they spawned by the dozens.

Yes, I did read what I write.

Manics are not annoying because of their teleports, half the time they teleport in front of my barrel -which is an AI error. Manics annoy people because they go invulnerable. Unless you 1-shot them (and it's possible with way more than just Sim-Mirage), they will just run around doing the trollolol song. Frankly, considering Eximus units are supposed to be the 'elite', I wouldn't be surprised if they were equipped with teleportation devices just to get close to us.

Yes, Corpus EMPs. Not taking away energy, but shutting down active/channeled powers at the most. Primarily, I'm thinking of what the Corpus as a technology-based faction would do, and that's disrupt us as much as possible. Ideally EMPs should give a visual disruption for a second and damage our shields. I never said anything about taking our energy away -only shutting down powers so we have to go through the hassle of reactivating them. Annoying, disruptive but not 'take away all your energy'. And yeah, I did play that event. Was fun.

Yes, Infested with shields. And the bursas were annoying because of way more than their shields -at least I never had an issue killing them, even without CC or AoE weapons. Guess I can counter-play them easily. The issue players had was with how quickly they spun around. Thing is, the Infested are a melee faction almost exclusively. Meaning that, most of the time, by the time they get to us, we've already emptied several clips into the mass charging at us. With the case of a shield unit, we'd have to bullet jump up, rain justice from above and resume regular obliteration protocols -but they'd have closed the gap at least a little. It would give Eximus units a priority to take them out, not because the Eximus itself will kill you  (which is and should be a possibility), but because the Eximus' friends will. Which is very much in-tune with how the Infested Operate (the Zerg-Rush mode).