Why is this not nerfed ? Yes synoid simolor

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

18 hours ago, Tatersail said:

so you camped in a tunnel and think the weapon you used should be nerfed?  even tho the exact same thing can be done in a tunnel with a dozen other weapons, some with greater effect.  A unmodded nova using only antimatter absorb can mash 2 in a tunnel and get the same effect.

Gotta admit, I've never seen a Synoid Simulor user camping anywhere. They're usually intent on running faster than everybody else on the team, or tear-assing around a defense objective in a dizzy circle, spewing simulor bombs. If you're not in front, you don't get all the kills.

Edited February 14, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[Magneu]

On 2/13/2017 at 7:18 PM, Tatersail said:

Imbalance is actually nice for a game, keeps things interesting.

Doublethink much?

Imbalance creates a a meta, and a meta creates a vacuum where people commonly use only a select few weapons. The current meta for speed-running missions is Mirage/SySim, and that wouldn't be terrible..except for the fact that it scales incredibly well into late-game, for reasons already discussed in this thread and many others.

Balance leads to multiple weapons/frames being equally viable, which leads to varied loadouts, which leads to keeping things interesting.  That's the goal, and the SySim is a big obstacle to it.

[Magneu]

19 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I played many games with weapon like these and believe me a rocketlauncher was equally good against a group of enemies as taking out tanks. The panzerfaust was my favorite weapon to take out grouped together enemies after i took out the tanks.

Im sorry but i cant think of any fps game where an aoe weapon dealt less damage to single targets than a single target dedicated gun. Most of them obviously had damage falloff depending on range but to implement something like that in this game we would have to atleast double the current max aoe range of our weapons.

And if damage was adjusted, I'd be just fine with increased range.

I think of AOE as a niche of applying high epicenter damage, and hard fall-off to the edge of the explosion where it deals low damage. Aim for heavies, and get rewarded by killing everyone. Aim for grunts, and get mediocre damage.

Sniper level damage on multiple enemies in a large AOE is just over the top.

[NightBlitz]

what needs to happen is they need to change the way mirage's hall of mirrors interacts with the SS, simply making it so the orbs only merge with others from the same clone or in the case of the real one, with just the shots from the real one. this would fix a huge part of the issue

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, NightBlitz said:

what needs to happen is they need to change the way mirage's hall of mirrors interacts with the SS, simply making it so the orbs only merge with others from the same clone or in the case of the real one, with just the shots from the real one. this would fix a huge part of the issue

I dont think that would be enough for these guys, i cant think of anything after reading a lot of comment on these post that they want the mirage or the synsim to be useless.

But i think that could be a helpful change thought i really dislike the idea that a weapon or a skill must be nerfed because theres an item or frame in the game that can push it to much greater heights.

The other idea what could be used is to implement a basic filter option to the pub search so these guys would never have to deal with someone having fun. Becuase lets be honest almost all "nerf miragulor" post is from a guy who cant keep up with these and want to do a mission in a much slower speed. They put up some petty excuses that it doesnt need aim or its overpowered or something like that.

My favorite excuse is that it doesnt need aim to kill, my modded Ignis can kill enemies behind my back with its insane spread im literally shooting forward in a general direction and things die everywhere. I remeber i played on akkad and i was only aiming at the boxes on the left side and i killed stuff on the top floor.

[Antonie_Van_Leeuwenhoek]

From my personal view it's not actually simulor's fault nor mirage's. Imagine warframe without simulors, we'll see mirage with some other kind of explosive like tonkor or even penta anyway. The difference will be that forum will be full of 'please nerf [insert next powerful aoe weapon you like]. As for mirage, It's what she does best, annihilate every living souls with bazillion of multipliers. I think the real issue here is the player's gaming etiqutte. Bringing argurably the best rifle in the game into low level mission with best damage self-buffer frame is kinda overkill don't you think... Honestly i've been scratching my head over this issue and try to look at it from multiple angle but fail to find the right solution for this problem. Some people do really enjoy speed running mission, while some hate it so much when they dont get to fight. Maybe they should add in simulor's description a warning for appropriate level range. A plea to not use it in mission level less than 50. but then again it's the player's choice what he or she want to use.

[(PSN)solcott]

On 2/6/2017 at 2:42 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

And if I can outdps this Synoid Simulor Mirage?

Good job I suppose?

There are plenty of frames that will almost constantly out damage SS+Mirage while still only requiring "in a coma" levels of player interaction.

Soundquake Banshee(press 4, wait), High Power Str Nova(press 4, attack anything, wait), Equinox(press 4, wait), Range/Efficiency Oberon(press 4 a bunch of times), Range/Efficiency Nezha(press 4 a bunch of times), Range/Efficiency Saryn(press 2 a bunch of times), Range/Efficiency Mag(press ANYTHING a bunch of times), Mesa/Ash (aim sensitivity all of the way up, press 4, spin wildly)...

OK, maybe Mesa/Ash need more effort than the traditional "in a coma" playstyle, but "having a seizure" players will excel at outdamaging SS+Mirage with both of them.

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, Antonie_Van_Leeuwenhoek said:

From my personal view it's not actually simulor's fault nor mirage's. Imagine warframe without simulors, we'll see mirage with some other kind of explosive like tonkor or even penta anyway. The difference will be that forum will be full of 'please nerf [insert next powerful aoe weapon you like]. As for mirage, It's what she does best, annihilate every living souls with bazillion of multipliers. I think the real issue here is the player's gaming etiqutte. Bringing argurably the best rifle in the game into low level mission with best damage self-buffer frame is kinda overkill don't you think... Honestly i've been scratching my head over this issue and try to look at it from multiple angle but fail to find the right solution for this problem. Some people do really enjoy speed running mission, while some hate it so much when they dont get to fight. Maybe they should add in simulor's description a warning for appropriate level range. A plea to not use it in mission level less than 50. but then again it's the player's choice what he or she want to use.

Simulor starts to fall off at higher levels though, and you are saying no simulor on the starmap ANYWHERE. Not in fissures, not in endless, not on eris, nowhere. Sortie only. That's crazy.  What if you lensed it and it is your only lensed weapon? It's a great weapon to lens, but you are saying you can't use it even lensed? If you say this about simulor you HAVE to say it about Banshee then... and ember, and equinox, and Saryn Those frames are sortie only as they can make quick work of the starmap.

Loki as well as the invisibility makes spy and sabotage missions too easy on low level maps. Trying to make rules about what can and can't be used where and disguising it as "etiquette" has been tried on many game and frankly it's foolish. The weapon is legal and valid. trying to get the community to not use it won't work and shouldn't work.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Shockwave-

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

My guess is that it's never going to change. It's not like DE is unaware that the Fun Vacuum build exists; if they wanted to change it (or change it further, I have no idea what happened in that area prior to late 2016) they'd probably be doing so. As mentioned in this, or one of the many threads on it, you've got three options:

1. Get a Mirage and a Synoid Simulor yourself.

2. Ramble along behind the I Kill Everything Before You player, picking up loot. 

3. Leave if you see somebody using it. 

[Soketsu]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

My guess is that it's never going to change. It's not like DE is unaware that the Fun Vacuum build exists; if they wanted to change it (or change it further, I have no idea what happened in that area prior to late 2016) they'd probably be doing so. As mentioned in this, or one of the many threads on it, you've got three options:

1. Get a Mirage and a Synoid Simulor yourself.

2. Ramble along behind the I Kill Everything Before You player, picking up loot. 

3. Leave if you see somebody using it. 

4. give a gear filter, a special matchmakingor bring back conclave rate, but... please after that, zero pointless nerf

Edited February 15, 2017 by Soketsu

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Those could work too. I was mostly thinking of "what can I do right now about it?"

 

Edit: Shoot, just realized one more option to add to the list: Play Limbo, and banish the Mirage player constantly. Every opportunity you get. I mean, you still wouldn't get to do anything, but you're taking one for the team. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[Magneu]

5 hours ago, Soketsu said:

4. give a gear filter, a special matchmakingor bring back conclave rate, but... please after that, zero pointless nerf

Gear filtering is just avoiding the problem. 

Alternatively, why not have a "cheese mode" filter, where only Mirage/SySim is allowed?

Dictating filters like conclave and such does absolutely nothing to the problem of players trivializing content. Why should DE put any effort into unique enemies/tilesets if a player just hits one, three, then holds W and macros M1? It's easily the most effective way to clear content even under 120, and it requires vegetable levels of effort to achieve.

That is not healthy game balance, and unhealthy games don't last long. 

This is the principle DE needs to follow. Varying power levels is good, such as the upgrade from starter gear to mid level, and finally to Prime/Wraith etc (not a perfect example, yes). In a system of perfect imbalance, players are constantly trying new weapons/tactics to gain an edge over other people (looking from a competitive view). 

The most important part of the video I urge everyone to watch is the final points at timestamp 5:24 onwards. Mirage/SySim completely craps on all three of the listed rules, which is why it has to go; it upsets a perfectly imbalanced system, by making an otherwise generally well-imbalanced game into an off the wall unbalanced game.

1. Mirage/SySim is good at practically everything; damage, CC, energy, economy, range...the wombo combo has it all.

2. Mirage/SySim need not care about mechanics, because they can simply spam M1 and wipe an entire map of high level enemies. Manics constantly cloak from damage, heavies are staggered/killed, grunts exist for a microsecond, AOE hits weakspots...there's practially no downside.

3. Warframe has an incredibly wide variety of choices (yes, some are too weak and some are too strong); however, if looking for the best clear time/easiest experience, Mirage/SySim is by far the best choice for any obstacle, with the sole exception of tanking AOE attacks (her clones even draw aggro, or she can sit in shadow and enjoy 95% mitigation). What's the point of so many frames and weapons suited for unique purposes when Mirage/SySim can do it all?

There's certain rules/limitations that individual pieces of gear should have to create a varied game (weapon/frame wise) every match, but Mirage/SySim just kills that.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

23 hours ago, NightBlitz said:

what needs to happen is they need to change the way mirage's hall of mirrors interacts with the SS, simply making it so the orbs only merge with others from the same clone or in the case of the real one, with just the shots from the real one. this would fix a huge part of the issue

This wouldn't solve it at all. Instead of one large burst of damage you want 3 decent bursts of damage. In some ways your idea would be more powerful in the sense that with 3 different sections there would be a greater range with overlapping damage and a cluster fudge of orbs, more than there is now. This wouldn't solve the issue at all.

when it comes to these kind of posts (specifically Mirage+Simulor) I always say this: Mirage needs a rework. Her HoM needs to be her 4 and be a toggle with high energy drain.

done.

Edited February 16, 2017 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[Soketsu]

9 hours ago, Magneu said:

Gear filtering is just avoiding the problem. 

Alternatively, why not have a "cheese mode" filter, where only Mirage/SySim is allowed?

Dictating filters like conclave and such does absolutely nothing to the problem of players trivializing content. Why should DE put any effort into unique enemies/tilesets if a player just hits one, three, then holds W and macros M1? It's easily the most effective way to clear content even under 120, and it requires vegetable levels of effort to achieve.

That is not healthy game balance, and unhealthy games don't last long. 

This is the principle DE needs to follow. Varying power levels is good, such as the upgrade from starter gear to mid level, and finally to Prime/Wraith etc (not a perfect example, yes). In a system of perfect imbalance, players are constantly trying new weapons/tactics to gain an edge over other people (looking from a competitive view). 

The most important part of the video I urge everyone to watch is the final points at timestamp 5:24 onwards. Mirage/SySim completely craps on all three of the listed rules, which is why it has to go; it upsets a perfectly imbalanced system, by making an otherwise generally well-imbalanced game into an off the wall unbalanced game.

1. Mirage/SySim is good at practically everything; damage, CC, energy, economy, range...the wombo combo has it all.

2. Mirage/SySim need not care about mechanics, because they can simply spam M1 and wipe an entire map of high level enemies. Manics constantly cloak from damage, heavies are staggered/killed, grunts exist for a microsecond, AOE hits weakspots...there's practially no downside.

3. Warframe has an incredibly wide variety of choices (yes, some are too weak and some are too strong); however, if looking for the best clear time/easiest experience, Mirage/SySim is by far the best choice for any obstacle, with the sole exception of tanking AOE attacks (her clones even draw aggro, or she can sit in shadow and enjoy 95% mitigation). What's the point of so many frames and weapons suited for unique purposes when Mirage/SySim can do it all?

There's certain rules/limitations that individual pieces of gear should have to create a varied game (weapon/frame wise) every match, but Mirage/SySim just kills that.

The "problem" is not according to everyone, nerfing like you ask won't solve anything too, the only thing you will success, is too put to the trash another gear, ppl on ash say he was a problem result : ash is underused, ember miragesimulor is now the popular way to care quickly of missions.

Player trivializing content ... Come on Magneu your are way more expermiented on this game than that, even before the creation of MIrage and so simulor, players wa able to deal with lvl 120+ foes and without any in advanced skill but only the preparation before the battle. Do you really believe by nerfing simulor you will be able to change anything to our abilities ? To the skill of this game ? Later will it be Ignis, amprex, telos boltface somting added by DE ?

Will you (later) just nerfing every aoe (DPS & CC) in order to care of the "problem" ? It's not understanding how the warframe economy work... most people rush in order to force the RNG to give us what we want by making a maximal number of attempt in a minimal ammount of time & energy. But I really think you do think that.

Unhealthy game don't last long... the game are here since 2013 and he's still not dead, crushing destiny, survive where game didn't last 1 year (Last Call of). Warframe keep evolving due to DE work & even the pointless nerfs didn't kill it, just wasting DE time at best.

you have to realise that not everyone is pleased with nerf (90+ pages on ash "rework"). but hopefully at least one guy finaly realise his mistake by calling the nerf hammer upon Ash, but the other just dissapear, now you might do the same thing, and I won't allow this without saying anything.

Now mirage simulor weakness : poor range (12m), poor detonation compare to other aoe.... it's way better to just blind/ make the ennemy sleep then OS them. The simulor may work on lvl 1-100, but I do not trust this weapon, like I trust my melee weapon with blind/sleep mechanic. You're may be obessed by the non existant aiming skill of this weapon, but I really assure you, there is way more efficient way to handle foes and it's not that hard to outdps a mirage simuor. How many time did I to revive an unware mirage simurlor, roaming too freely, accepting ennemy bullets.

My only goal by suggesting gear filter/ special Matchmaking/ the return of the conclave rating, people like you can play together in pub without the stuff like simulor so you won't ask for any nerf AND DE can finally really focus on bring back every forgotten content instead of nerfing this nerfing that.

 

---

After if the game bore you, take a break or find another who might satisfy you. But if it's only MiraSimulor you find too op for the game, you might have a bad surprise later, whatever the state of simulor.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

There was a comment on another Miragulor thread that it might be enough of a "fix" to have the original damage amount of Clone-fired simuballs be retained -- the poster said that once they merge, the original 20% as damaging Simuball is now back up to 100% damage (so effectively, if 2 Cloneballs and 1 Mainball merge, you get 300% damage, rather than 140%). 

I am not saying whether the person is correct or not, I have no idea. Never played Mirage or used Simulor, and after seeing what they do, don't really want to.

However, if the poster in that other thread is correct, though, then perhaps the damage numbers are not working as intended.

Edited February 16, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[Malkav42]

I would like to see the sound brought down to about 10% of what it is now and the visual aspect dropped to something much more minor. Right now its just a bit of an eyesore when it is spammed. The gameplay aspect does not bother me at all, I can just leave if I'm bored cause someone is using this. But having to leave cause the visual and audio aspects are so over the top is a bit disheartening.

Reduce the graphics on Boltace spins while your at it please.

By far though, the worst offender of the human eye is having a Limbo on your team... ugh.

[--DSP--]

Mirage + Synoid. SYnoid Simulor is already nerfed so much, dps is almost dropped 4 times. If you really wanna nerf Synoid so much that it won't be powerful on Mirage, if you only use a bit of a brain, you will know how useless the weapon will become.

Just nerf how Mirage-Simulor works and everything will be fine.

Edited February 23, 2017 by --DSP--

[(PSN)ST-ChaoticMayhem]

i think the range of the damage the weapon does should be smaller. the damage is okay, its just that it kills things too far too easily. and the sound needs to be fix.

[--DSP--]

Tell me a way to nerf it without making it completely a fodder? What? Nerf damage? The damage isn't even that high compared to before, almost 4 times damage lost. We do not want a weapon that can only stagger, please face it, without Mirage, this thing can only last in early and midgame.

[Fallen_Echo]

12 hours ago, --DSP-- said:

Tell me a way to nerf it without making it completely a fodder? What? Nerf damage? The damage isn't even that high compared to before, almost 4 times damage lost. We do not want a weapon that can only stagger, please face it, without Mirage, this thing can only last in early and midgame.

Even if they would decide to halve the damage again, people would be still making post about nerf the weapon or the mirage because they want them obliterated.

I have seen request to remove them ingame, to make mirage unable to use it, to remove the clones completely and such nonsense.

And after they finally get satisfied by making the weapon and the frame both useless, they would switch over to the next thing wof ember, quake banshee, etc...

[--DSP--]

10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Even if they would decide to halve the damage again, people would be still making post about nerf the weapon or the mirage because they want them obliterated.

I have seen request to remove them ingame, to make mirage unable to use it, to remove the clones completely and such nonsense.

And after they finally get satisfied by making the weapon and the frame both useless, they would switch over to the next thing wof ember, quake banshee, etc...

How about just make it so that Mirage don't duplicate Synoid Simulor 4 times.

[Fallen_Echo]

8 hours ago, --DSP-- said:

How about just make it so that Mirage don't duplicate Synoid Simulor 4 times.

Only 2 clones can shoot, not 4.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

People keep talking about deleting Synoid Simulor and Mirage from the game like it would be a bad thing. I'm still trying to figure out the downside. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

People keep talking about deleting Synoid Simulor and Mirage from the game like it would be a bad thing. I'm still trying to figure out the downside. 

The downside is that someone else does like it.

If you want to remove exposure from everything in the game you don't like, you should just play solo.

I personally detest that weapon and think it's an abomination...But I also never thought highly of:

• Nova
• Limbo 
• Mirage
• Equinox
• Nidus
• Tonkor
• Most of Archwing before the changes and all of it now
• Mag's old Pull and Greedy Pull
• Switch teleport
• Mastery Rank Requirements and Benefits
• The sheer number of event consumables that get added for no reason
• Drop rates on stances when it's the only stance on offer
• Having all weapons balanced to use +damage and multi-shot
• Valkyr's Hysteria being allowed to factor in so many additional mods before her last round of changes.
• -Duration Saryn
• Coptering

My dislike of these items /mechanics isn't (and shouldn't be) cause to remove them though. DE can see the analytics for those things themselves and act accordingly on their own.

Sometimes they do... Sometimes the don't...

Asking for nerfs and whatnot just winds up as another mission for The Nerf Brigade and it'll just be another thing immediately following the last nerf.

The results won't change either.

Either the item is nuked from orbit and it's never used again or it's not nerfed enough for The Nerf Brigade.

The saddest part of all is that if the same amount of energy were expended from the forums getting weapons/frames improved... The game would be all the better for it.

To date, most of the nerfs have accomplished nothing truly notable. 

In the Simulor's case, they could remove it tomorrow and Mirages would go to a different weapon and ruin your day with it too.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

People keep talking about deleting Synoid Simulor and Mirage from the game like it would be a bad thing. I'm still trying to figure out the downside. 

The fact that they exist.