Ember rework

[CHEEESE]

Because i want to kill some mobs too.

And i wonder why some guys talking about high-lvl ember problems here at all.

I say that embers ruin low-mid lvl game not just for ember players, but for any other players in party, and this should be fixed.

You say that ember is weak at high level games and thats why everything is ok.

How do these things correspond? 

Edited February 7, 2017 by CHEEESE

[Chewarette]

30 minutes ago, CHEEESE said:

Because i want to kill some mobs too.

And i wonder why some guys talking about high-lvl ember problems here at all.

I say that embers ruin low-mid lvl game not just for ember players, but for any other players in party, and this should be fixed.

You say that ember is weak at high level games and thats why everything is ok.

How do these things correspond? 

Because there is literally no point for DE to completely remove Ember from the game.

You're asking for a straight nerf (as usual, you don't care about balancing, your word is NERF NERF NERF PLZ NERF). Straight nerfing Maim and World on Fire would simply remove Ember from the game. Regarding Equinox, nobody plays her anyway, don't ask to nerf something that isn't ever used. Equinox's niche is VERY-HIGH LEVEL missions.

On Page 1 you even took, as a "successful" example, the example of Ash's 4. Great rework indeed ! When was the last time I've seen an Ash ?

So no, keep this kind of simplistic topic for yourself or your clan channel. If you want to make some interesting feedback, propose a MODIFICATION that's wouldn't conclude in "Oh, 800% less activity on Ember lel".

[Soketsu]

I smell a little troll somewhere...

anyway little troll, I don't see the time when you talk about mesa,simulor, ignis,amprex or any melee weapon with long range... because you forgot that even equinox or ember removed, there will still player who know how to process not like you want with this kind of stuff, stealing your damage and your kills....

[Toran]

I totally agree with the OP. Nerf... em... ALL!

Who needs skills anyway? We got hundreds of weapons! Please make this game Call-of-Duty-esquer! I seriously can't stand it if anyone does more damage/kills than me just by pressing a button at start, especially when it's a coop game! I don't want to benefit from these cheesy warframes. I wish they were all the same - we got enough skins and fashion items to distinguish them, after all. For Homogeneity! For NERFS! For CoD-pieces!

...Seriously, do we really want all these nerfs and cut diversity in Warframe? There are thousands out there who don't feel the urge to complain in the forum. They like the game as it is. I hope the developers listen to the silence of the many instead of the rants of the few in the future and make their decisions more rationally or pull off an ingame-vote.

The thing the nerf-criers forget to mention is that all these "Über-Frames" are top-equipped players and they not just have to push one button: they invested time and probably money to outfit their warframes in the best way they could think of and use their tools where they see fit. What seems to be overpowered in one situation might prove totally useless in another.

 

[Toran]

28 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

I smell a little troll somewhere...

anyway little troll, I don't see the time when you talk about mesa,simulor, ignis,amprex or any melee weapon with long range... because you forgot that even equinox or ember removed, there will still player who know how to process not like you want with this kind of stuff, stealing your damage and your kills....

What gave you the hint? The three e's?

[kleerr2]

1 hour ago, CHEEESE said:

I would like WOF not killing everyone on the map with player pushing 1 button at the beginning of the mission, being it 1 or 999 lvl, good sir.

So... what's up with the hyperbole?! You are makeing it out to be a 300 meter ability that does 200k finisher dmg and enemies across the entire map, die outright, the moment that they spawn... Reality check?!

Furthermore... you wish WOF to take more than a single hit to take out a lvl 1-10 enemy, which will bring WOF's limitation of 5 enemies being affected, into perspective... What will be the incentive to use WOF at that point?!

''Hey look guys it took only 5 seconds for my WOF to kill 5 lvl 1-10 enemies... Hooray!''

Get over yourself...

[CHEEESE]

Oh, come on. 

Okay, if you want to hear my solution: Let WoF be just like frost's ult. Single use, not prolonged, wide aoe with status and high damage. Maybe some bonus damage for mobs on fire. Yes, thats very simple, but its first thing that come in my head. Yup, like on old ember. Still not so boring as WoF now.

Infinite killer-auras - dead end for the action game. Okay, equinox is very hard to get and requires some understanding, i agree. But ember is very easy to get and upgrade to the state when it ruins the low-mid lvl game. Ember is just boring to play and to play with.

Someone said about ashes nobody play now. God bless the rework. Tired of red and black schoolboy ashes spamming bladestorm. Pretty the same thing with ember, i guess. Need to be fixed like that.

Edited February 7, 2017 by CHEEESE

[CHEEESE]

By the way, you guys sound a bit too angry for such discussion. Playing Ember much? Is it interesting gameplay experience for you? Share some opinions.

Edited February 7, 2017 by CHEEESE

[Toran]

11 minutes ago, CHEEESE said:

By the way, you guys sound a bit too angry for such discussion. Playing Ember much? Is it interesting gameplay experience for you? Share some opinions.

I hardly play Ember, I think I played even Hydroid more. I just don't like these unneeded nerfs... Ever saw Ember in a long-running Survival or Defense? If you want to do damage too, do so. Any faster warframe can outrun & outdamage Ember. Ember is convenient, she's not über. That's a difference.

[Soketsu]

54 minutes ago, Toran said:

What gave you the hint? The three e's?

The argumentation, way too poor in order to be serious,

the fact he's here since 2013, but almost 0 posts,

the name too .... yes

[(PSN)salovel1991]

11 hours ago, Second_Measure said:

Why are you guys so focused on the ultimates here? Equinox and Ember got so much more on their palette than just those. But instead players laze around just 'pressing 4 and forget'. That is what got Excalibur, Ash, Mirage, Saryn and Mesa nerfed in the first place. If that continues, either Ember/Equinox face a nerf on their ultimates as well, or DE introduces more units that are unaffected by those powers, like the Nullifiers, Combas, Manics and bosses with invulnerability phases.

Eximus units with weakpoints have been announced, making such practices more difficult as you can't mow over them so easily anymore. And if DE decides to roll them out on all factions, you can surely say that Ember will kick the bucket and end up being shelved as people are unwilling to let go of their afk WoF runs instead of adapting to the situation.

While AoE Mirage takes over the game even further. Because if they do go through with that we all know that will happen because everyone wants easy mode. 

[Second_Measure]

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Straight nerfing Maim and World on Fire would simply remove Ember from the game.

If you define their value only by their ultimates, then you are playing the frames wrong. And that what got the previously mentioned ones nerfed in the first place.

[_Glaurung_]

Gonna respectfully disagree with ya, OP. Whilst I do get irritated with Embers on low level missions, coming at it from another direction, nerfing her would make her relatively useless at higher levels. As for Equinox, I think she's fine the way she is. Her ult damage falls off as you go higher, and needs enemies to be damaged to build the burst. And, she's a worthy reward for all the Tyl Regor farming. 

[dan.io.wal]

Personally I think Equinox is in a good place as is, as well as ember. One being a very versatile frame with massive scaling and potential, the other a glass cannon. if ember takes a hit from a bombard or heavy gunner she's a goner, so it makes sense that her powers are so powerful. With frames like her, banshee, and nyx they have to be. 

[CHEEESE]

Thanks, last 2 guys, for your adequate replies without that know-it-all internet cynics attitude. But you, like some other people here, were misleaded by the words "Nerf" and "Equinox" in the topic. Maybe i should've choose another headline.

In process of discussion i finally formed my opinion in short form:
I dont talk about straight nerf or usefulness of ember on high leveles.

I say that killer-auras (world on fire), like principle of abilities - bad idea for an action game, making it boring. So i suggest to turn WoF in more usual form - like with old ember, for example. Just big and bad push-button-to-use aoe with status and high damage, maybe cooperated with other abilities. Saryn-like, yeah.

We decided that its ok for Equinox, by the way. This frame is hard to get and use, so we dont talk about it anymore.

Ember is too overpowered for low-to-mid levels, and kinda weak at high levels (guys here say so, i dont agree, but okay). I think that things must be more... Smooth, balanced.

What do you think about this?

[kleerr2]

4 hours ago, CHEEESE said:

Oh, come on. 

Okay, if you want to hear my solution: Let WoF be just like frost's ult. Single use, not prolonged, wide aoe with status and high damage. Maybe some bonus damage for mobs on fire. Yes, thats very simple, but its first thing that come in my head. Yup, like on old ember. Still not so boring as WoF now.

Infinite killer-auras - dead end for the action game. Okay, equinox is very hard to get and requires some understanding, i agree. But ember is very easy to get and upgrade to the state when it ruins the low-mid lvl game. Ember is just boring to play and to play with.

Someone said about ashes nobody play now. God bless the rework. Tired of red and black schoolboy ashes spamming bladestorm. Pretty the same thing with ember, i guess. Need to be fixed like that.

But i am, i am...

And how does your solution change anything? Your solution makes Ember a glascannon CC frame, which is still press button to kill group of enemies, press 4 to win, because pressing a button repeatedly is less boaring than jumping and shooting, and whateverelse you figure out to do as WOF does NOT restrict the player's gameplay in any way, so lets fix that, congradulations!

You have not made a single argument as to why Ember( a damage dealing frame) should NOT kill low-mid lvl content outright... none! Plus, i don't find her gameplay boring, WOF is one of, if not THE most none-restricting ability in the game... ''But it is like a passive'', so fkin what?! It is better than having to stand in one place to spam a button...

''God bless the rework''

Facepalm... I gues thast why i never see Ashes these days, coz he had an amazing ga... i mean rework, of his ability... Obviously your problem is not Ember, your problem is ability spam, as evidenced by this statement:

''Tired of ashes spamming bladestorm. Pretty the same thing with ember''

Let me tell you something. If you don't like ability spam then this game is not for you buddy, because Ember spamming her abilities, or the lack there of, is the least of your problems...

4 hours ago, CHEEESE said:

By the way, you guys sound a bit too angry for such discussion. Playing Ember much? Is it interesting gameplay experience for you? Share some opinions.

But why are you being vague?! Just say... ''Kleer2 why are you being an angry fanboy?'', or whoever this is supposed to be pointed at... I'm saying this so that you don't just stand there pointing your finger in the sky, talking to yourself...

No, i don't main Ember, only recently i played her a bit more... I don't find her boring... Why should i? I can do whatever i want while the ability is active... parkour, shooting, melee, or whatever...

Sure you have your own opinion, but i think it is a narrow-minded one... or you are just playing dum, trolling, coz you got nothing else to do, and the forums are the real end-game, but that is just a speculation, not a statement, so...

1 hour ago, CHEEESE said:

Thanks, last 2 guys, for your adequate replies without that know-it-all internet cynics attitude. But you, like some other people here, were misleaded by the words "Nerf" and "Equinox" in the topic. Maybe i should've choose another headline.

In process of discussion i finally formed my opinion in short form:
I dont talk about straight nerf or usefulness of ember on high leveles.

I say that killer-auras (world on fire), like principle of abilities - bad idea for an action game, making it boring. So i suggest to turn WoF in more usual form - like with old ember, for example. Just big and bad push-button-to-use aoe with status and high damage, maybe cooperated with other abilities. Saryn-like, yeah.

We decided that its ok for Equinox, by the way. This frame is hard to get and use, so we dont talk about it anymore.

Ember is too overpowered for low-to-mid levels, and kinda weak at high levels (guys here say so, i dont agree, but okay). I think that things must be more... Smooth, balanced.

What do you think about this?

So, everybody else, except those two guys, was a ''know-it-all internet cynics''? Is that what you are trying to say? Well, anyone with an opinion different to yours, but still...

If you are going to call someone out, just do it...

It is also very amusing that you bring up the word ''cynic''... Are you sir not exactly that?! Cynical... You want to change WOF based on YOUR PERSONAL PREFRENCE/OPINION, but no, ''all those other guys, who i shall not name because i intentionally want to be vague, those guys, whomever they are, they are the cynics''... Yeah right...

What you should have done, is to make up your god dam mind! Specifically:

''So i suggest to turn WoF in more usual form - like with old ember, for example. Just big and bad push-button-to-use aoe with status and high damage, maybe cooperated with other abilities.''

''Ember is too overpowered for low-to-mid levels, and kinda weak at high levels (guys here say so, i dont agree, but okay). I think that things must be more... Smooth, balanced.''

'I want it to be a press 4 to win, but also to kill those heavy guys, but not kill all those weaker guys and...'

So basically, what you want... is an ability, which is ''Press 4 to win'' that outright kills high lvl content, but cannot kill low-mid level content...

Yea well, here's the thing about that... Mag's Polarize was nerfed! End of discussion!

[CHEEESE]

4 minutes ago, kleerr2 said:

End of discussion!

With you - yes. You, i point my finger, mr. klerr2, are too mad for discussions.

Edited February 7, 2017 by CHEEESE

[kleerr2]

2 minutes ago, CHEEESE said:

With you - yes. You, i point my finger, mr. klerr2, are too mad for discussions.

Solid response, due to lack of argument... I admire. Have at it mate...

[(PSN)TertulSee]

19 hours ago, CHEEESE said:

Okay, warframe is not about hardcore gaming, but about space ninjas kill hundreds of poor mobs in beautiful way.

But ember and equinox final abilities make it all too easy. You just need to push 1 button to win the game. Pretty much whole game going around on low levels, even if you are highrank - alerts, sindicate missions, etc. And on that levels players with Equinox and, especially, Embers are killing the interest. Just one such guy can burn/cut any mob on the map with his ability on, and other players can do nothing about that. One guy killing everyone with just running around - you dont need to shoot or draw your sword, you can just relax and watch. Yes, its easy way to farm and fast run on missions - but its not korean mmo, i guess. We are space ninjas, we need action, and Ember gamestyle taking it away from us.

So, my suggestion is at least increase energy consumption of 4'rd abilities of Ember and Equinox - just to make it not so infinite. Let them use it only when its hardly needed, not everytime.

At max - completely rework it. One button and wasd must be not enough to win everything.

Ash's Bladestorm made him from god tier to barely ever used. Although Ember's World on Fire does need to be more interactive, it is literally the basis of her survival and her usefulness. If an Ember doesn't have World on Fire on 24/7, she becomes essentially useless. Currently, World on Fire and Maim are not the only contenders. We also have Ivara which can get through certain mission with the single press of a button or Nyx with her Assimilate augment which pretty much turn Nyx into the terminator. Mirage with the Synoid Simulor is the worst offender. Single spam and a properly built Mirage would turn even high level content into a breeze. All of those are more interactive than World on Fire but they also have the same amount of interaction as Valkyr's old Hysteria or Saryn's old Miasma. World on Fire however works like Necro's Desecrate in which you don't have to do much to get what you want. The concept of being not interactive enough is merely an illusion. World on Fire is interactive because it allows you to use your weapons and makes you have to move rather than spam one button. It would be better to have it going on forever while being fully capable of doing everything else than to have it be a button spam like Ash's old Bladestorm. Note: Ash's Bladestorm changed nothing about him. It made it just harder to spam one button which is not what players want.

[_Glaurung_]

9 hours ago, CHEEESE said:

Thanks, last 2 guys, for your adequate replies without that know-it-all internet cynics attitude. But you, like some other people here, were misleaded by the words "Nerf" and "Equinox" in the topic. Maybe i should've choose another headline.

In process of discussion i finally formed my opinion in short form:
I dont talk about straight nerf or usefulness of ember on high leveles.

I say that killer-auras (world on fire), like principle of abilities - bad idea for an action game, making it boring. So i suggest to turn WoF in more usual form - like with old ember, for example. Just big and bad push-button-to-use aoe with status and high damage, maybe cooperated with other abilities. Saryn-like, yeah.

We decided that its ok for Equinox, by the way. This frame is hard to get and use, so we dont talk about it anymore.

Ember is too overpowered for low-to-mid levels, and kinda weak at high levels (guys here say so, i dont agree, but okay). I think that things must be more... Smooth, balanced.

What do you think about this?

Off the top of my head, perhaps a range reduction (not an overwhelming amount, just to limit the ability to kill enemies another room away) for WoF, WITH an increase in the frequency of eruptions. This would make Ember deadlier, but also require some more manoeuvring and coordination with the team to effectively deal with enemies. This is just a suggestion, btw.

[(PSN)ThatPersonInMars]

im bored of you guys running around with "nerf nerf NERF NERF PLZZ" in forums, what do you want, kill these frames completely, without considering what would players who likes these frames think? every frame has their own uses, ember is a dps, equinox either support or dps, why dont you just cry for a nerf for trinity because she can be god, why dont you just say nerf frost because he can protect the objective very well in defense missions, nerf that frame because he can do that very well, etc etc.? its the same thing as you saying nerf ember she's killing everything. you re crying because a player with good ember build killing everything in the mission and you feel useless? go to navigation and set matchmaking to solo, do everything on your own and quit crying for a nerf on forums, nuff said

[CHEEESE]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ThatPersonInMars said:

im bored of you guys running around with "nerf nerf NERF NERF PLZZ" in forums, what do you want, kill these frames completely, without considering what would players who likes these frames think? every frame has their own uses, ember is a dps, equinox either support or dps, why dont you just cry for a nerf for trinity because she can be god, why dont you just say nerf frost because he can protect the objective very well in defense missions, nerf that frame because he can do that very well, etc etc.? its the same thing as you saying nerf ember she's killing everything. you re crying because a player with good ember build killing everything in the mission and you feel useless? go to navigation and set matchmaking to solo, do everything on your own and quit crying for a nerf on forums, nuff said

We dont cry about trinity, cause trinity dont force anyone to play solo. We dont cry because of frost, cause frost dont force anyone play solo. Ember do it.

Did you tried solo? Was it interesting? I guess not.. So, ember makes game uninteresting, right?

[CHEEESE]

6 hours ago, RiderKick said:

Off the top of my head, perhaps a range reduction (not an overwhelming amount, just to limit the ability to kill enemies another room away) for WoF, WITH an increase in the frequency of eruptions. This would make Ember deadlier, but also require some more manoeuvring and coordination with the team to effectively deal with enemies. This is just a suggestion, btw.

Nice one, wide range of ability is one of the main problems. Maybe they should remove the aility of WoF to go through walls, that will be nice.

By the way, critics, I tried ember on 60 lvl sortie defence yesterday. 357 kills, 0 deaths with far from perfect hobo-build, just because of firequake. Tell me about weaknesses of Ember once more.

Edited February 8, 2017 by CHEEESE

[CHEEESE]

In another thread i suggested this:

Good idea to make abilites of ember cooperate more with each other. For example, WoF should make enemies on fire go boom with high explosive damage and ignore those who are not burning. So, you need to set guys on fire first to make WoF work - with your abilities or weapons. Of course, because of such restrictions, WoF damage can be increased.

What do you think about that?

[LuckyCharm]

I disagree. Before these two even get touched how bout doing something to fix the problem causing it... Energy efficiency. Since that's the core problem of many of the games "x frame is killing all my fun" since most of the powers people complain about are generally given 100% up time based on how easy it is to get energy now. See how easy it is to get ember to kill entire missions if she can't keep her energy up