Ember rework

[Celthric317]

Usually on defensive missions it is Ember(Prime) who has a 70% of the damage done simply because of her 4th ability which slaughters everything

[(XBOX)ZAYNE 79]

11 hours ago, Celthric317 said:

Usually on defensive missions it is Ember(Prime) who has a 70% of the damage done simply because of her 4th ability which slaughters everything

On low-mid level (1-60) maybe. 80+ I doubt Ember will be the main damage dealer.

[Celthric317]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)INZZANE 79 said:

On low-mid level (1-60) maybe. 80+ I doubt Ember will be the main damage dealer.

Yeah, was refering to +30 waves of Akkad

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

7 hours ago, Celthric317 said:

Yeah, was refering to +30 waves of Akkad

Considering that Nova can outdps Ember by pressing 2, Nidus can outdps her at maybe around 10-15 stacks, Excal flat out outdps her if you are smart with exalted blade/slash dash, along with Equinox, Chroma, Zephyr w Tonkor, Saryn... Nezha, Mirage and Any number of Ash builds... Any number of warframes can outdps Ember if you put any amount of Time or effort into them. Ember is actually pretty trash around infested. You would think as fire she would burn them away. But healers/disruptors just laugh away her damage. (Something I want to seen removed.) World on Fire is what everyone complains about, but Fireblast is her only good ability. Accelerant and World on Fire are only "Eh" And Ember is extremely power thirsty. (Accelerant really needs to just be a buff or have some interaction besides making small group of enemies take more fire damage... Like having an explosion or just making ember do more damage for the duration instead of the cute little cc. Some passive way of getting energy back instead of set self on fire... 

 

You ever notice how ember doesn't have a deluxe skin yet? And Nova, Saryn, Hell even Oberon does? It's cause Ember gets no love. :/ Accelerant is about as bad as dive-bomb imo.

[Soketsu]

23 hours ago, Celthric317 said:

Yeah, was refering to +30 waves of Akkad

pretty ez to do that --'

[(PSN)SilverwindNarga]

If thats the case that ember makes low level missions easier then lets nerf Slova for making ALL missions easier. Then cc Night Form Equinox. After that nerf banshee for being able to hold down rooms to make things easier. Then we can go nerf rhinos stomp for making rooms have easy to hit floating targets and valkyr for being to run around and murder everything.

 

Sick of seeing people complain that a frame is too good at what they are supposed to be used for. Everyone knows she becomes a CC frame in high level missions so how bout u just let people play and stop trying to ruin their fun?

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, (PS4)darkjohn333 said:

After that nerf banshee for being able to hold down rooms to make things easier.

Your slippery slope/hyperbole argument has a leak in it.

I will defend (and have defended) Ember, but that whole Resonant Quake Banshee thing is something that undeniably needs to be changed. It's pre-line-of-sight Blind Mirage with more energy tax but even less interaction.

[IfritKajiTora]

I wan't to change all 2.5 Energy per second drain abilities 4th ultimates to drain 4-5 energy per second but boost DMG 2.5-3x times.
That way no more turn on ability and forget to turn off but they will be as a ultimate abilities turn ON only when you need it and make a great DMG.

Also FireBlast for ember is too weak for 75 energy cost.
I'm just running around with all the time have turned ON 4th ability and when enemies are thug I use second ability to stun them and make them weaker to 4 th ability.
I'm not using her third ability, it's just waste of energy.
This ability should make more damage, 800 wave damage.

BTW use her augment on second ability from update 19.7 it boost whole team and yourself too.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_Accelerant

Edited February 19, 2017 by IfritKajiTora

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

just play other games these kind of childish issues. whats not fun for you does not mean not fun for others. you are just pushing for nerf based on your own preference on what is fun. if you dont like an ember in your party just leave and make another one. 

if other players gaming style does not give you fun just look somewhere else instead of hindering them.

[Second_Measure]

1 hour ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

just play other games these kind of childish issues. whats not fun for you does not mean not fun for others. you are just pushing for nerf based on your own preference on what is fun. if you dont like an ember in your party just leave and make another one. 

if other players gaming style does not give you fun just look somewhere else instead of hindering them.

I don't think everyone plays Ember because she is 'fun, moreso that she is 'convenient' for killing enemies through terrain and doors while remaining highly mobile. "Fire and forget", so to say.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

On 2/19/2017 at 3:15 AM, IfritKajiTora said:

I wan't to change all 2.5 Energy per second drain abilities 4th ultimates to drain 4-5 energy per second but boost DMG 2.5-3x times.
That way no more turn on ability and forget to turn off but they will be as a ultimate abilities turn ON only when you need it and make a great DMG.

Also FireBlast for ember is too weak for 75 energy cost.
I'm just running around with all the time have turned ON 4th ability and when enemies are thug I use second ability to stun them and make them weaker to 4 th ability.
I'm not using her third ability, it's just waste of energy.
This ability should make more damage, 800 wave damage.

BTW use her augment on second ability from update 19.7 it boost whole team and yourself too.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_Accelerant

If you make Ember's powers bypass disruptor's/healers BS I would be more then ok with that. 

Fire blast actually does ok damage cause of the fire proc, but if you playing vs infested... they kinda just shrug it off... i really wish ember's fire would burn them away more... disruptors getting on my nerves lately.

 

Only exception I wouldnt be ok with is Valkyr. Cause her energy drain would be a little ridiculous at that point. 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

6 hours ago, Second_Measure said:

I don't think everyone plays Ember because she is 'fun, moreso that she is 'convenient' for killing enemies through terrain and doors while remaining highly mobile. "Fire and forget", so to say.

when did i say everyone? also for some convenient play is fun because it is a more relaxing playtype. not all wants to point and shoot at the enemy. in this scenario all i see is 2 dps competing for a kill. 

what i do is i bring a good weapon and bring a utility frame like nekros or speedva.

you kill then all by wof? thanks here is another loot so you wont run out of energy or let me speed them up so you can kill more.

like the other reply is a team misconfiguration.

remember this is a team game a good dps aoe or whatever you deem op can be complemented. 

if you are playing for the highest killrate in the end screen then you are a douchebag i run a mission to get those resources to keep my foundry running.

best example of why i like these kind  of ability is when im farming oxium for vauban its not fun for me look for these osprey and kill before the charge. i dont care who kill them but give me my loot which is better than the self gratification of having most kills in the end.

also who dont want to roleplay as a firegod who immolate everyone at the snap of a finger?

do you want to make this game more  tedius than it already is?

[Second_Measure]

9 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

when did i say everyone? also for some convenient play is fun because it is a more relaxing playtype. not all wants to point and shoot at the enemy. in this scenario all i see is 2 dps competing for a kill. 

what i do is i bring a good weapon and bring a utility frame like nekros or speedva.

you kill then all by wof? thanks here is another loot so you wont run out of energy or let me speed them up so you can kill more.

like the other reply is a team misconfiguration.

remember this is a team game a good dps aoe or whatever you deem op can be complemented. 

if you are playing for the highest killrate in the end screen then you are a douchebag i run a mission to get those resources to keep my foundry running.

best example of why i like these kind  of ability is when im farming oxium for vauban its not fun for me look for these osprey and kill before the charge. i dont care who kill them but give me my loot which is better than the self gratification of having most kills in the end.

also who dont want to roleplay as a firegod who immolate everyone at the snap of a finger?

do you want to make this game more  tedius than it already is?

People don't enjoy it getting their content denied by a frame which kills enemies with a low-cost activation/channeling ability that bypasses terrain/line of sight, using it from start to stop of the mission.

And that doesn't have a thing to do with team configuration because there's nothing teamwork'ish about Ember's ult. Its just murdering stuff for the sake of being lazy to put an effort into it. And that's how we get Cruise Control embers, macro spinning volts/lokis with Telos Boltace, Mirage Simulors and augmented Soundquake Banshees. It may be engaging for them, but that might not be the case for the rest of the squad.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

1 hour ago, Second_Measure said:

People don't enjoy it getting their content denied by a frame which kills enemies with a low-cost activation/channeling ability that bypasses terrain/line of sight, using it from start to stop of the mission.

And that doesn't have a thing to do with team configuration because there's nothing teamwork'ish about Ember's ult. Its just murdering stuff for the sake of being lazy to put an effort into it. And that's how we get Cruise Control embers, macro spinning volts/lokis with Telos Boltace, Mirage Simulors and augmented Soundquake Banshees. It may be engaging for them, but that might not be the case for the rest of the squad.

all that you said have already been mentioned over and over again. i suggest you read my post again.

[Soketsu]

2 hours ago, Second_Measure said:

People don't enjoy it getting their content denied by a frame which kills enemies with a low-cost activation/channeling ability that bypasses terrain/line of sight, using it from start to stop of the mission.

And that doesn't have a thing to do with team configuration because there's nothing teamwork'ish about Ember's ult. Its just murdering stuff for the sake of being lazy to put an effort into it. And that's how we get Cruise Control embers, macro spinning volts/lokis with Telos Boltace, Mirage Simulors and augmented Soundquake Banshees. It may be engaging for them, but that might not be the case for the rest of the squad.

So you confirm that you hate when someone KS you ? on this game ?

[Second_Measure]

4 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

all that you said have already been mentioned over and over again. i suggest you read my post again.

I read about it, and didn't care anymore to give a more detailed reply because people think Ember will be useless when her ults gets adjusted, but will be not the case.

I agree to disagree, so whatever.

3 hours ago, Soketsu said:

So you confirm that you hate when someone KS you ? on this game ?

I like to be busy fighting stuff, not running past burned corpses from start to finish. I guess it is hard for some people to understand what I am saying. I am sorry.

[Shockwave-]

On 2/6/2017 at 7:29 PM, Second_Measure said:

As a Nidus player, a 'Press 4 and Cruise Control through the map' - Ember is the bane of my existance. Since she also kills enemies outside the Line of Sight makes it impossible for me to gain Mutation Stacks, basically crippling my Frame's usefulness.

You should be complaining about Nidus, then, not ember. You are basically now complaning because you frame works poorly if your teammates kill things.... sounds like a design flaw in nidus, not ember.

[(PSN)SilverwindNarga]

I made a comment earlier but I feel the need to go more indepth here.

 

1st. Nidus and Ember do not mix. That is simple. BUT only in low level missions. Nidus and ember can control the mission but together ember will kill them fast IN low level missions. when u get to high level ember can proc the heat then enemies burn and sit there nidus uses larva then stomps or she runs low strength as i do use firequake and u knock everyone down and nidus cleans up. Not only nidus but anyone can.

2. Embers firequake is more or less the same as some other frames. Look at Equinox's Calm and Frenzy Augment. In nightform she spreads the sleep. I ran a mission with my friend using this mod and I was playing atlas. Together we basically shutdown the map by putting enemies then sleep and I use my rumblers and rock punches to spread it. Look at slova. She can turn ANY mission into easy mode by slowing down all enemies EVEN BOSSES. Vaykor Hek in raid is affected by slova. Bosses and even assassins aka Zenurik or the gustag 3. Embers firequake may affect assassin's, honestly never had the chance to test this, but i have never been able to knockdown bosses with it.

3. Ur arguement of "In low level missions I think we need to still shoot" doesnt work here because there are other frames who dont need to shoot ever. If u want the game to be like that then a lot of frames are going to be nerfed. I can make a pure strength build on frost and spam avalanche and kill anyone in a room on low level missions. Then go to higher level and just freeze them in place making things just as easy as firequake. And I use zenurik focus school so i can spam quite a lot plus if my friend uses EV trinity then its even easier. Thats just one ability and it can go maybe not as far as embers WoF but it can still go far and shutdown rooms. Or how about banshee who users her ult to kill everyone in low level defense? Not very ninja to have a frame scream into the ground. Even mid level defense she can. 

4.These are low level missions where im sorry if this upsets anyone but are really not that important in comparison to end game missions. U get to high enemies its a new ball game. U want to nerf a frame who excels at speed runs for low to mid level missions but take no interest in addressing late game missions. What about a team that combines firequake and slova to cc the whole room so they can survive 100+ level enemies? Ur going to just ruin peoples playstyle cause in mid to low level someone is doing most of the work and ur just bored? Im sorry but who are u to ruin to peoples fun and gameplay cause ur upset? U dont think a lot of us get bored and just sit back when we have mirage and synoid simulor running around. I do. Do i want it nerfed? No. Do i play as her? No. Do i think its okay to get her nerfed just cause i personally dont like it? No. What u view this game as is not what everyone else does. U nor I nor anyone in this community has the right to force what we view as whats right or how this game should be played onto anyone else. This is a game where u can play as u want. If u dont like ember being in ur squad then either get 3 friends or play solo if u want to go out of ur way. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

On 2/21/2017 at 10:02 AM, Second_Measure said:

I read about it, and didn't care anymore to give a more detailed reply because people think Ember will be useless when her ults gets adjusted, but will be not the case.

I agree to disagree, so whatever.

I like to be busy fighting stuff, not running past burned corpses from start to finish. I guess it is hard for some people to understand what I am saying. I am sorry.

 

You do realize that Nidus is the undisputed ruling GOD of defense missions right? You aren't made for low level exterminates. Why are you complaining? You do the undisputed most amount of damage of all warframes (Other than Antimatter drop...) Frames work better in certain missions. Nidus is a frame that locks down an area and just takes everything. 

8 hours ago, (PS4)darkjohn333 said:

I made a comment earlier but I feel the need to go more indepth here.

 

1st. Nidus and Ember do not mix. That is simple. BUT only in low level missions. Nidus and ember can control the mission but together ember will kill them fast IN low level missions. when u get to high level ember can proc the heat then enemies burn and sit there nidus uses larva then stomps or she runs low strength as i do use firequake and u knock everyone down and nidus cleans up. Not only nidus but anyone can.

2. Embers firequake is more or less the same as some other frames. Look at Equinox's Calm and Frenzy Augment. In nightform she spreads the sleep. I ran a mission with my friend using this mod and I was playing atlas. Together we basically shutdown the map by putting enemies then sleep and I use my rumblers and rock punches to spread it. Look at slova. She can turn ANY mission into easy mode by slowing down all enemies EVEN BOSSES. Vaykor Hek in raid is affected by slova. Bosses and even assassins aka Zenurik or the gustag 3. Embers firequake may affect assassin's, honestly never had the chance to test this, but i have never been able to knockdown bosses with it.

3. Ur arguement of "In low level missions I think we need to still shoot" doesnt work here because there are other frames who dont need to shoot ever. If u want the game to be like that then a lot of frames are going to be nerfed. I can make a pure strength build on frost and spam avalanche and kill anyone in a room on low level missions. Then go to higher level and just freeze them in place making things just as easy as firequake. And I use zenurik focus school so i can spam quite a lot plus if my friend uses EV trinity then its even easier. Thats just one ability and it can go maybe not as far as embers WoF but it can still go far and shutdown rooms. Or how about banshee who users her ult to kill everyone in low level defense? Not very ninja to have a frame scream into the ground. Even mid level defense she can. 

4.These are low level missions where im sorry if this upsets anyone but are really not that important in comparison to end game missions. U get to high enemies its a new ball game. U want to nerf a frame who excels at speed runs for low to mid level missions but take no interest in addressing late game missions. What about a team that combines firequake and slova to cc the whole room so they can survive 100+ level enemies? Ur going to just ruin peoples playstyle cause in mid to low level someone is doing most of the work and ur just bored? Im sorry but who are u to ruin to peoples fun and gameplay cause ur upset? U dont think a lot of us get bored and just sit back when we have mirage and synoid simulor running around. I do. Do i want it nerfed? No. Do i play as her? No. Do i think its okay to get her nerfed just cause i personally dont like it? No. What u view this game as is not what everyone else does. U nor I nor anyone in this community has the right to force what we view as whats right or how this game should be played onto anyone else. This is a game where u can play as u want. If u dont like ember being in ur squad then either get 3 friends or play solo if u want to go out of ur way. 

What he said ^

[Soketsu]

On 21/02/2017 at 6:02 PM, Second_Measure said:

I like to be busy fighting stuff, not running past burned corpses from start to finish. I guess it is hard for some people to understand what I am saying. I am sorry.

I just wanted that you confirm what you saying, or at least, let you one chance to let me think you really expirmented enough in order to know what you say, remember it's a debate...

But if you want to play on this ground, it's not gonna to end well...

So I will tell you can play solo or just go with people who don't like ember, mira simulor but then you will say "ppl like you who make the pub horrible", I can suggest other thing  (see page 5 of this thread) that you already forgotten....

Now if you think like that I guess you never make your own team for specific mission with specific objective where you really need to form your team, not taking random pick up players, where some people spend minute ,hours not killing any foe, but allowing the team to survive, to accomplish the goal of the team,

but still, you ask for changes things you don't fully understand.

And then I see you are here since 2013

 

---

So ... either you're an annoying troll,

or you 're nostalgic from old times who will never come back, and won't come back if you do change ember

or just a guy who didn't play to warframe for a while

or even something else... but I won't be like you, I don't want to fall to that point

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

16 hours ago, (PS4)darkjohn333 said:

I made a comment earlier but I feel the need to go more indepth here.

 

1st. Nidus and Ember do not mix. That is simple. BUT only in low level missions. Nidus and ember can control the mission but together ember will kill them fast IN low level missions. when u get to high level ember can proc the heat then enemies burn and sit there nidus uses larva then stomps or she runs low strength as i do use firequake and u knock everyone down and nidus cleans up. Not only nidus but anyone can.

2. Embers firequake is more or less the same as some other frames. Look at Equinox's Calm and Frenzy Augment. In nightform she spreads the sleep. I ran a mission with my friend using this mod and I was playing atlas. Together we basically shutdown the map by putting enemies then sleep and I use my rumblers and rock punches to spread it. Look at slova. She can turn ANY mission into easy mode by slowing down all enemies EVEN BOSSES. Vaykor Hek in raid is affected by slova. Bosses and even assassins aka Zenurik or the gustag 3. Embers firequake may affect assassin's, honestly never had the chance to test this, but i have never been able to knockdown bosses with it.

3. Ur arguement of "In low level missions I think we need to still shoot" doesnt work here because there are other frames who dont need to shoot ever. If u want the game to be like that then a lot of frames are going to be nerfed. I can make a pure strength build on frost and spam avalanche and kill anyone in a room on low level missions. Then go to higher level and just freeze them in place making things just as easy as firequake. And I use zenurik focus school so i can spam quite a lot plus if my friend uses EV trinity then its even easier. Thats just one ability and it can go maybe not as far as embers WoF but it can still go far and shutdown rooms. Or how about banshee who users her ult to kill everyone in low level defense? Not very ninja to have a frame scream into the ground. Even mid level defense she can. 

4.These are low level missions where im sorry if this upsets anyone but are really not that important in comparison to end game missions. U get to high enemies its a new ball game. U want to nerf a frame who excels at speed runs for low to mid level missions but take no interest in addressing late game missions. What about a team that combines firequake and slova to cc the whole room so they can survive 100+ level enemies? Ur going to just ruin peoples playstyle cause in mid to low level someone is doing most of the work and ur just bored? Im sorry but who are u to ruin to peoples fun and gameplay cause ur upset? U dont think a lot of us get bored and just sit back when we have mirage and synoid simulor running around. I do. Do i want it nerfed? No. Do i play as her? No. Do i think its okay to get her nerfed just cause i personally dont like it? No. What u view this game as is not what everyone else does. U nor I nor anyone in this community has the right to force what we view as whats right or how this game should be played onto anyone else. This is a game where u can play as u want. If u dont like ember being in ur squad then either get 3 friends or play solo if u want to go out of ur way. 

With this i want to take a moment of silence for Ash who got ruined by nerf loving people.

[Jessadactyl]

Being someone who uses Ember frequently, I think she's fine where she is. She does damage, yes, but she's also extremely squishy and very easy to bring down. Particularly when playing on Infested Tilesets or with specific Grineer Tilesets. She has no killing power in upper levels, you pretty much have no choice but to use Firequake if you want her to remain remotely useful late game. And, even then, her use is still pretty debatable.

Though, I do get what you're saying in terms of early to mid play. I'm, well, that Ember. I'll use her to cheese certain alerts or I'll use her if I'm solo credit/material farming and want to relax. But, barring that, her use is pretty limited overall. If she was in need of a rework, it wouldn't be in the form of a nerf. She would need to have more utility in higher level play. She's good at knocking down and chip damage, and that's about it. I do considerably more killing with Tigris Prime and Galatine Prime than any of her abilities from level ~35+.

[brasteir]

It would be neat if 4 caused your weapon shots to spawn fire up from the ground in clusters with a tiny minor built in cooldown. Longer range equal bigger clusters. Maybe also blind the enemies the fire hits, so now ember's got more cc she's just gotta shoot stuff. 

4 can't be left as it is, it's kind of outdated and contrary to what DE obviously wants for its playerbase. Furthermore it's not that great against high levels. She can be better. MEGA!

[V0ltHunter]

On 2/7/2017 at 7:11 AM, CHEEESE said:

Okay, warframe is not about hardcore gaming, but about space ninjas kill hundreds of poor mobs in beautiful way.

But ember and equinox final abilities make it all too easy. You just need to push 1 button to win the game. Pretty much whole game going around on low levels, even if you are highrank - alerts, sindicate missions, etc. And on that levels players with Equinox and, especially, Embers are killing the interest. Just one such guy can burn/cut any mob on the map with his ability on, and other players can do nothing about that. One guy killing everyone with just running around - you dont need to shoot or draw your sword, you can just relax and watch. Yes, its easy way to farm and fast run on missions - but its not korean mmo, i guess. We are space ninjas, we need action, and Ember gamestyle taking it away from us.

So, my suggestion is at least increase energy consumption of 4'rd abilities of Ember and Equinox - just to make it not so infinite. Let them use it only when its hardly needed, not everytime.

At max - completely rework it. One button and wasd must be not enough to win everything.

Dude.....

Ember is just fine. You're suppose to feel op in low levels. I wouldn't want to spend so much time on low level missions with crappy rewards, and Ember is there to make it less boring to sweep through a low level.

[Djego27]

On 17.2.2017 at 9:12 AM, (Xbox One)INZZANE 79 said:

On low-mid level (1-60) maybe. 80+ I doubt Ember will be the main damage dealer.

76% damage grenier mobile def L100 primary only sorti(yes we hard another Ember that did press 4 with 9%), solo L100 Infested Excavation(back when you did need 1500) secondary only Sorti, 60 waves ODD solo or 1h+ solo melee only T3S(without shadow step easy mode). Is that good enught to make a comment about Ember DPS? I could add 12 waves solo T4 Interception for ducat farming or playing drako like a walk in the park till 20 after everybody left at 5 but non of this things is relevant any more.

First of all that is obviously not WoF based but high power strength + crit/status fire based solutions build around accelerant with nearly pure weapon based damage. Ember has as far as I and a few people that play the frame at higher levels agreed on here on the forums quite a few issues.

- It is a massive gear check. There is no other frame so depended on arcanes and specific mods/weapons than Ember because the unique fire scaling and massive issues with weapon selection, survivability(point blank glass cannon without the real punch that would be required) and arcanes to stay alive/keep dps up.

- There is no other frame that has a hard counter as a fire eximus(took me like 3 minutes to kill a L100+ fire eximus heavy gunner last time solo). Compare this to 20s of L120 toxic ancients with Saryn when you use gas and the viral proc, that is like 9 times faster against your worst target in the game.

- It is a frame that is more depended on status then any other one, yet status weapons are in a very bad spot for the most part only a hand full work on the frame because of the fire damage scalability issues.

I do however agree that WoF spam at lower levels should be tuned down, as posted quite a few times before WoF is not what defines Ember as DPS, it is accelerant and weapon choice and that litterally every single ability needs some work.

- Fireball, make the AOE 100% fire proc, currently there is zero reason to use it at high levels for the extra dps outside of reloading over accelerant for the CC.

- Accelerant, give 10-15% more base status to all weapons on Ember on cast, this would help a ton to make a lot more weapons viable on the frame.

- Fire Blast, make the hole ring proc fire CC, it would be reasonable CC tool around a defence target or a small corridor this way, easy, not OP and very useful at higher levels.

- WoF make it hit more targets instead of hitting targets stronger with power strength, this limits it's use fairly early on as dps tool(most likely L25 ish) while improving the CC element, what is the only reason you use WoF at higher levels.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Djego27