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Temporary sub-forum for Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii ×

TennoGen Round 7 Release and Prime Model Update


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Just now, Camisoul said:

This is a deal breaker. On that note, can you introduce a refund for tennogen skins? I won't be using mine anymore.

Considering DE only got a portion of the funds from Tennogen items, steam another, and the content creator the rest? No, I don't believe DE can offer a refund since they only have a small portion of the funds to return.

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2 minutes ago, Naith said:

Well they're already restructuring stuff in regards to separately coloured pieces of equipment. Might as well throw this in there too.

That doesn't require a code restructure, at all. That increases the total size for the data of your profile they have to deal with on their end, and thus they don't want to do it since saved appearances is the largest bloat on the saved data they have to handle. Their databases would need upgrades to handle the increase due to the number of players out there. That is why we are only getting Syandanas compared to each slot. They have explained this also in quite some detail, on stream even.

Edited by NeithanDiniem
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1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

That doesn't require a code restructure, at all. That increases the total size for the data of your profile they have to deal with on their end, and thus they don't want to do it since saved appearances is the largest bloat on the saved data they have to handle. Their databases would need upgrades to handle the increase due to the number of players out there. That is why we are only getting Syandanas compared to each slot. They have explained this also in quite some detail, on stream even.

It's still going to require a shuffle of something, surely. But even so, I didn't say a restructure, I just said toss this into the mix of fiddling around with whatever else they're up to.

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With the amount of money that gets invested in Tennogen skins, it's not really acceptable to just change the terms after the fact. Even though using the base model is important to some people, you just have to wait until both can be implemented, not reverse the status quo.

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Just now, Naith said:

It's still going to require a shuffle of something, surely. But even so, I didn't say a restructure, I just said toss this into the mix of fiddling around with whatever else they're up to.

You sure? Cause your post said otherwise.

6 minutes ago, Naith said:

Well they're already restructuring stuff in regards to separately coloured pieces of equipment. Might as well throw this in there too.

Simply adding another color section to the saved text document that makes up your profile information is a whole different thing from redesigning how equipment is able to be handled by the engine.

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8 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Considering DE only got a portion of the funds from Tennogen items, steam another, and the content creator the rest? No, I don't believe DE can offer a refund since they only have a small portion of the funds to return.

Then they'll have to refund me out of their own pocket. I bought a specific appearance for a lot more money than even normal plat items. And that appearance that I clicked to buy, is no longer the appearance I will log into. I bought a thing, and it's no longer that thing.

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Myself and lots of other people bought these skins because of the way the prime parts stuck through, I understand that lots of other people didn't like iut, but was there *no way* a toggle could be implemented? I feel like I just wasted all that money I spent on Tennogen and wish I could get it back. As Naith said, is there any way this could be added ion the future, along with the separate coloured armour pieces that are planned?

 

If this was indeed a mistake, it should have been told to us *immediately* and we should have been told it would be changed in the future so people wouldn't waste their money on skins that would be changed.

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4 minutes ago, Camisoul said:

Then they'll have to refund me out of their own pocket. I bought a specific appearance for a lot more money than even normal plat items. And that appearance that I clicked to buy, is no longer the appearance I will log into. I bought a thing, and it's no longer that thing.

That appearance was for the Warframe you bought it for. That appearance by design and presentation on the workshop was for the non prime. You got exactly what you paid for, you just expected it to be something it was not. They are not required to refund you for your illogical expectations not being met. I cant demand a refund for a booster because it didn't give me the amount of resources I expected it to give me.

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18 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

The game code is not set up to handle model swaps through a toggle and would require a large restructuring of how equipment is handled on the player. This was explained in quite some detail on one of their workshops about this very issue.

There is the slightly crude solution of having each purchased tennogen skin actually be two skins. Only the non-prime skin shows up for non-primes, while both a prime skin and a non-prime skin show up for primes. The textures are the same, this just determines which model it is applied to.

That uses the existing skin system which obviously has no issues with model swaps.

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Just now, Blissful_Altruism said:

Myself and lots of other people bought these skins because of the way the prime parts stuck through, I understand that lots of other people didn't like iut, but was there *no way* a toggle could be implemented? I feel like I just wasted all that money I spent on Tennogen and wish I could get it back. As Naith said, is there any way this could be added ion the future, along with the separate coloured armour pieces that are planned?

 

If this was indeed a mistake, it should have been told to us *immediately* and we should have been told it would be changed in the future so people wouldn't waste their money on skins that would be changed.

A toggle isn't possible at this time as it requires a full restructure of how the game handles player equipment. They also aren't planning color options for each cosmetic piece, only the syandana.

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Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

That appearance was for the Warframe you bought it for. That appearance by design and presentation on the workshop was for the non prime. You got exactly what you paid for, you just expected it to be something it was not. They are not required to refund you for your illogical expectations not being met. I cant demand a refund for a booster because it didn't give me the amount of resources I expected it to give me.

The problem with this argument is that we see the skins on our warframes when we are purchasing them. We aren't seeing the renders on the workshop. They have also been this way for months.

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I'm utterly devastated that my Valkyr Prime is going look so bland now. I bought the Valkyr Graxx Skin BECAUSE of how it looked with the Prime, but now that money is waster because default Prime is better than default Graxx. This is not a fair change as it doesn't suddenly make more people content, it just switches our places. Don't implement this change. 

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1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

That appearance was for the Warframe you bought it for. That appearance by design and presentation on the workshop was for the non prime. You got exactly what you paid for, you just expected it to be something it was not. They are not required to refund you for your illogical expectations not being met. I cant demand a refund for a booster because it didn't give me the amount of resources I expected it to give me.

The logical expectation, is that when I see something in a preview, and click buy, it should stay that way. They never communicated what was intended or not. The user should also not be expected to check a separate website and research a cosmetic purchase. As for the warframe, I bought the appearance for nova prime, so it should continue looking like nova prime from my perspective. You can't just change what you purchase through a preview, again without communication (no pop-up for example saying otherwise), without losing good faith.

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1 minute ago, egregiousRac said:

There is the slightly crude solution of having each purchased tennogen skin actually be two skins. Only the non-prime skin shows up for non-primes, while both a prime skin and a non-prime skin show up for primes. The textures are the same, this just determines which model it is applied to.

That uses the existing skin system which obviously has no issues with model swaps.

It isn't swapping models, its forcing it. You couldn't swap the model between the prime and non prime, you would swap the entire skin. That has its own problems, mainly having to deal with double the assets. It would be viable, but they more than likely discussed that option and decided against it for reasons we just don't see.

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16 minutes ago, Latiac said:

Is it possible to use normal skins on primes? If this is possible I don't see why we can't do so if we own the original warframe too...

All skins will still be completely compatible on Prime Warframes! They will work similar to Deluxe skins in that the Prime model is replaced by the normal model. It will still be a Prime, it just won't look like it!

Not a single creator or artist displays any Prime details in any of their work - the item sold is completely Prime-detail free in its presentation and creation. It was a 'happy accident' that prime bits were showing through but it's one we have to fix as per the post.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Taylor said:

This update will bring another change: all TennoGen skins will use the normal Warframe model, meaning Prime Parts will no longer poke through.

I hope this wont ruin my TennoGen Skin on Nova Prime. I actually liked some of the prime stuff mixed with the skin.

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2 minutes ago, Camisoul said:

The logical expectation, is that when I see something in a preview, and click buy, it should stay that way. They never communicated what was intended or not. The user should also not be expected to check a separate website and research a cosmetic purchase. As for the warframe, I bought the appearance for nova prime, so it should continue looking like nova prime from my perspective. You can't just change what you purchase through a preview, again without communication (no pop-up for example saying otherwise), without losing good faith.

They did communicate it, you just didn't go and look at it. You bought something for Nova, which worked on the prime due to how DE had changed how cosmetics worked for their prime counterparts. Most of them entirely replaced the prime bits, as you may be aware, and removed them, like how all the deluxe skins and weapon skins work.

Edited by NeithanDiniem
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Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

It isn't swapping models, its forcing it. You couldn't swap the model between the prime and non prime, you would swap the entire skin. That has its own problems, mainly having to deal with double the assets. It would be viable, but they more than likely discussed that option and decided against it for reasons we just don't see.

Choosing a skin chooses both the models and the textures. Having two skins allows the choice of which model to use.

They are entirely able to reference existing models or textures without duplicating them. The only extra asset would be a second skin config.

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22 minutes ago, Naith said:

Well they're already restructuring stuff in regards to separately coloured pieces of equipment. Might as well throw this in there too.

Um, DE has never indicated that they've started working on having separately colorable pieces of equipment. So I don't think they've already been restructuring stuff related to that.

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personally i dont mind the prime parts sticking through, in fact, the one tennogen item ive bought ive used to accent and customize my valkyr prime. if this change goes through, i dont see myself using or buying any tennogen skins anytime soon, because then id rather just run my prime frames without any skins and do the best i can to make them look unique and stylish. 

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1 minute ago, [DE]Taylor said:

All skins will still be completely compatible on Prime Warframes! They will work similar to Deluxe skins in that the Prime model is replaced by the normal model. It will still be a Prime, it just won't look like it!

Not a single creator or artist displays any Prime details in any of their work - the item sold is completely Prime-detail free in its presentation and creation. It was a 'happy accident' that prime bits were showing through but it's one we have to fix as per the post.

I only see what I see in the skin purchase screen in my arsenal. I was never told I should research my purchase elsewhere. I actually still don't know what page you're referring to, where the artists display anything?

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4 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said:

All skins will still be completely compatible on Prime Warframes! They will work similar to Deluxe skins in that the Prime model is replaced by the normal model. It will still be a Prime, it just won't look like it!

Not a single creator or artist displays any Prime details in any of their work - the item sold is completely Prime-detail free in its presentation and creation. It was a 'happy accident' that prime bits were showing through but it's one we have to fix as per the post.

If things were purchased through the workshop, then things would be being sold without the prime bits advertised. As is, they are generally purchased through the arsenal previewed on our own warframes. As such, they are effectively being advertised with the prime bits currently.

This doesn't really affect me much since Frost Prime is so lackluster that he doesn't even have prime bits, but this is a serious concern on many of the primes.

Edited by egregiousRac
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