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TennoGen Round 7 Release and Prime Model Update


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1 minute ago, egregiousRac said:

The problem with this argument is that we see the skins on our warframes when we are purchasing them. We aren't seeing the renders on the workshop. They have also been this way for months.

Yes, that was indeed a big mistake on DE's part. They should have never allowed the workshop items to look any different from what they were supposed to (minor adjustments aside). But since they allowed that to happen, people spent their money on something that was not actually supposed to be sold.

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1 minute ago, egregiousRac said:

Choosing a skin chooses both the models and the textures. Having two skins allows the choice of which model to use.

They are entirely able to reference existing models or textures without duplicating them. The only extra asset would be a second skin config.

The referencing textures is quite likely why skins on prime frames remove prime bits from some, like Trinity, because that skin has nothing in the way of texture mapping for those new areas. For these areas to then be colorable DE would have to have models able to pull multiple texture files for the one model, which is not always possible in many game engines. Whether or not that is the case here I do not know.

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1 minute ago, Camisoul said:

I only see what I see in the skin purchase screen in my arsenal. I was never told I should research my purchase elsewhere. I actually still don't know what page you're referring to, where the artists display anything?

On the Steam Workshop itself, where they submit their creations and fans vote for their favourites!

http://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/workshop/

This doesn't include any external marketing/showcasing they do on these forums or other websites. 

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22 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You sure? Cause your post said otherwise.

Yeah I am sure, because my post didn't say otherwise.

7 minutes ago, AntoineFlemming said:

Um, DE has never indicated that they've started working on having separately colorable pieces of equipment. So I don't think they've already been restructuring stuff related to that.

Uh, yeah they have. Or at the very least acknowledged it and said it's on the table and it's been mentioned by their own team a few times, but it's going to take some doing etc. I can't recall the exact words but it's an indication nonetheless.

Edited by Naith
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1 minute ago, egregiousRac said:

If things were purchased through the workshop, then things would be being sold without the prime bits advertised. As is, they are generally purchased through the arsenal previewed on our own warframes. As such, they are effectively being advertised with the prime bits currently.

This - there is literally no requirement to view any other presentation or advertisement to purchase the skin.

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4 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said:

On the Steam Workshop itself, where they submit their creations and fans vote for their favourites!

http://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/workshop/

This doesn't include any external marketing/showcasing they do on these forums or other websites. 

Why would I have thought to go to that site? Everything is in the game client.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's great that such things exist. It's just that everyone's level of participation varies. For many people, it's still a product at the end of the day. And while it's nice to look at the other stuff, since you don't have to in order to purchase, all the buyer knows is that it's changing.

Edited by Camisoul
clarification
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3 minutes ago, egregiousRac said:

If things were purchased through the workshop, then things would be being sold without the prime bits advertised. As is, they are generally purchased through the arsenal previewed on our own warframes. As such, they are effectively being advertised with the prime bits currently.

This doesn't really affect me much since Frost Prime is so lackluster that he doesn't even have prime bits, but this is a serious concern on many of the primes.

What do the display pictures for the Tennogen skins and helmets show? Do they show Prime parts? No? Then they aren't advertising the Prime parts. It's honestly that simple.

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7 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said:

All skins will still be completely compatible on Prime Warframes! They will work similar to Deluxe skins in that the Prime model is replaced by the normal model. It will still be a Prime, it just won't look like it!

Not a single creator or artist displays any Prime details in any of their work - the item sold is completely Prime-detail free in its presentation and creation. It was a 'happy accident' that prime bits were showing through but it's one we have to fix as per the post.

So are you saying that those of us who purchased a Tennogen skin specifically because it looked good on a Prime frame are now out of luck?  I hope not.

What's with the upward trend recently where things could be in the game for an extended period of time with no issues and then suddenly it's an "accident" or "mistake" ?

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2 minutes ago, Naith said:

Yeah I am sure, because my post didn't say otherwise.

Uh, yeah they have. Or at the very least acknowledged it and said it's on the table and it's been mentioned by their own team a few times, but it's going to take doing etc. I can't recall the exact words but it's an indication nonetheless.

They've entertained the idea, and openly said the only problem would be working out the UI for it. But they have never indicated that they started work on it. The same way they've talked over and over and over about Umbra, but have never said that they've started work on that.

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       Once again the vocal side of the WF community shows how ignorant, faithless, and ungrateful they are. I'm sorry that a lot of people liked the way some Tennogen skins looked with Prime bits. But the truth is most people liked them without, and the Devs have to cater to what most of the community wants, not just to the loud minority.

      Engineering is about getting the best results for the least compromise (and there will be compromise), which is exactly what DE has accomplished. 

      And no, this isn't sudden, without warning. This has been in the works for months, DE has mentioned it mentioned it several times in clear language that this would be implemented and why.

     Its understandable that many of you will be unhappy with this development, but you, in turn, should understand that the greater half of the WF community feels just the opposite, and their thoughts and feelings on the matter are just as valid as yours. They too payed RL money for Tennogen and were unhappy that Prime bits ruined what they paid for. 

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4 minutes ago, AntoineFlemming said:

What do the display pictures for the Tennogen skins and helmets show? Do they show Prime parts? No? Then they aren't advertising the Prime parts. It's honestly that simple.

Here is the most important piece of the marketing:

i2v.png

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1 minute ago, Bravely_Casual said:

       Once again the vocal side of the WF community shows how ignorant, faithless, and ungrateful they are. I'm sorry that a lot of people liked the way some Tennogen skins looked with Prime bits. But the truth is most people liked them without, and the Devs have to cater to what most of the community wants, not just to the loud minority.

      Engineering is about getting the best results for the least compromise (and there will be compromise), which is exactly what DE has accomplished. 

      And no, this isn't sudden, without warning. This has been in the works for months, DE has mentioned it mentioned it several times in clear language that this would be implemented and why.

     Its understandable that many of you will be unhappy with this development, but you, in turn, should understand that the greater half of the WF community feels just the opposite, and their thoughts and feelings on the matter are just as valid as yours. They too payed RL money for Tennogen and were unhappy that Prime bits ruined what they paid for. 

Unless this warning was given to us as a notification before purchase, it still doesn't change the fact that a purchased item was changed. There's no guarantee that everyone that bought a skin was informed.

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All this said, I think it shouldn't be a blanket decision across the board to have Tennogen skins not show the Prime parts. I think they should've let all the content creators decide individually (for their own skins) which skins they wanted to show the Prime parts and which ones they didn't.

For example, when Excalibur Umbra is released, I certainly hope that my Excal Apex skin will work with the Umbra parts. But I'd imagine that Faven might not want the Umbra parts to show up on his Excal Graxx skin. If DE had talked to individual content creators, then those content creators could've decided whether or not they wanted to use the Prime models based on the feedback they were getting from their fans.

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3 minutes ago, Bravely_Casual said:

       Once again the vocal side of the WF community shows how ignorant, faithless, and ungrateful they are. I'm sorry that a lot of people liked the way some Tennogen skins looked with Prime bits. But the truth is most people liked them without, and the Devs have to cater to what most of the community wants, not just to the loud minority.

      Engineering is about getting the best results for the least compromise (and there will be compromise), which is exactly what DE has accomplished. 

      And no, this isn't sudden, without warning. This has been in the works for months, DE has mentioned it mentioned it several times in clear language that this would be implemented and why.

     Its understandable that many of you will be unhappy with this development, but you, in turn, should understand that the greater half of the WF community feels just the opposite, and their thoughts and feelings on the matter are just as valid as yours. They too payed RL money for Tennogen and were unhappy that Prime bits ruined what they paid for. 

You're not in a position to say what most players want or don't want.

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2 minutes ago, egregiousRac said:

Here is the most important piece of the marketing:

i2v.png

Look at the display picture for the skin. THAT is what is most important. What you see on the Warframe can be chalked up to nothing more than a bug/unintended effect.

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2 minutes ago, Camisoul said:

I only see what I see in the skin purchase screen in my arsenal. I was never told I should research my purchase elsewhere. I actually still don't know what page you're referring to, where the artists display anything?

On steam, when you have Warframe selected, the workshop button will open up the Warframe Workshop where you can view the completed and in-progress skins and models people are making for the game. You can then vote on them and let DE know that you would like to see it added to the game. It is that voting process that helps DE decide what to chose for the winning Tennogen additions to the game.

3 minutes ago, egregiousRac said:

If things were purchased through the workshop, then things would be being sold without the prime bits advertised. As is, they are generally purchased through the arsenal previewed on our own warframes. As such, they are effectively being advertised with the prime bits currently.

This doesn't really affect me much since Frost Prime is so lackluster that he doesn't even have prime bits, but this is a serious concern on many of the primes.

Yes, the fact that you could see it on your prime frame was an advertising oversight due to how skins worked on the prime counterpart. Hindsight is 20/20. However this doesn't change the fact that the skin was not built with any of the prime aspect in mind since the artists didn't have the prime models to work with on the workshop or the Tennogen program. How it looks in game with your personal configuration doesn't matter when it comes to whether or not DE is in the right to make changes.

Yea, It sucks. I for one hate the change as well since I highly enjoyed the looks of prime bits showing, but the skins are still good and I'd rather chose to not complain about something I can't change.

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I guess I should be glad the only Warframe I've bought Tennogen skins for is Mag.  I'll miss those floaty bits at her hips bit it's a small loss compared to what others will lose from the appearance they paid for.

10 minutes ago, AntoineFlemming said:

What do the display pictures for the Tennogen skins and helmets show? Do they show Prime parts? No? Then they aren't advertising the Prime parts. It's honestly that simple.

They also don't show our custom colours in the icons but I don't think anyone would want us to have to use original colours to match the creators' artistic vision.

Edited by Katinka
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10 minutes ago, Camisoul said:

Why would I have thought to go to that site? Everything is in the game client.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's great that such things exist. It's just that everyone's level of participation varies. For many people, it's still a product at the end of the day. And while it's nice to look at the other stuff, since you don't have to in order to purchase, all the buyer knows is that it's changing.

All players already know and have to acknowledge before they are allowed to play the game that DE is going to change the game and content may not remain as it was when it was purchased. It was their own choice to not read that part.

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I wish they'd at least enable backwards compatibility for currently existing Tennogen content. The least complicated way of doing that would probably be gifting all current users "Legacy" skins that have the prime bits baked into it. No need for toggle button code or ongoing support that way.

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1 minute ago, Kharseth said:

I wish they'd at least enable backwards compatibility for currently existing Tennogen content. The least complicated way of doing that would probably be gifting all current users "Legacy" skins that have the prime bits baked into it. No need for toggle button code or ongoing support that way.

That would require DE to essentially make a duplicate of the Warframe model + skin texture and have it as a variant in the game, bloating file sizes and required download of assets at mission starts.

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33 minutes ago, AntoineFlemming said:

They've entertained the idea, and openly said the only problem would be working out the UI for it. But they have never indicated that they started work on it. The same way they've talked over and over and over about Umbra, but have never said that they've started work on that.

Well it was slated for an early 2017 new year feature so that certainly gives me the impression that it's being worked on. Though that's a hope/assumption which is also why I mentioned it because it's appearance related and has something to do with coding or whatever.

Quote

[removed for Guidelines violation] 

That's uncalled for.

It's paid for only content (minus consoles...) so if people are disgruntled with stuff - and they've got a reason to be - they can complain. Don't put people down for having an opinion.

Edited by Naith
removed quoted comment (and link to author) for guidelines violation. - DE
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1 minute ago, Naith said:

It's paid for content (minus consoles...) so if people are disgruntled with stuff - and they've got a reason to be - they can complain. Don't put people down for having an opinion.

Not to be a stick but console players pay for it too.

People can complain all they want, but people are also able to explain why decisions are made the way they are using basic reasoning. Also a good number of people in here are being downright demanding, like those asking for refunds. The content creators shouldn't have to refund anyone anything when they bought something that was advertised as one way and people just assumed it would remain the same for another.

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