TennoGen Round 7 Release and Prime Model Update

[FoxyKabam]

"Hello FoxyKabam,

I'm sorry, but all TennoGen purchases are considered to be final purchases and as per the terms of use cannot be refunded. We do understand that accidents happen, which is why we do offer refunds for accidental purchases if they are reported immediately and as long as the item was NOT used.

Unfortunately your purchase does not meet these requirements and due to that is not eligible for a refund. Please be aware that our Developers are still looking into the option of the TennoGen Skins using the Prime Models again, so please keep an eye on our forums and website for any additional information coming up about this. Thank you!

Sorry we couldn't be of more help!"

 

I tired, support was quick and polite about it though

Edited February 11, 2017 by FoxyKabam

[NightmareT12]

23 hours ago, arch111 said:

I am sure the best way is two sets, one with visible bling and one without.

Some Primes might look really cool without the Prime parts, some work just fine with them on.

 

Actually, the best way is to lie to the game.

Given a recent thing someone posted on Reddit that apparently console users can do about selecting the normal body as a skin (like we can with helmets) has sparked an idea on my head. I'm going to send details to Taylor to see if she can check with Programming about it.

Edited February 11, 2017 by NightmareT12

[DeMonkey]

Just going to pointlessly add my voice to this.

I bought the Tennogen skins because I liked the way they looked, not because I hoped they would look different in the future.

I'm baffled as to why you can't add a toggle for this, the model with prime parts exists, the model without prime parts exists. A toggle can already be manually created (Although it's hardly time efficient) by having a Prime and Unprimed version of the same frame. I can switch between them and watch the prime parts come on and off to my hearts delight.

I will also be asking support for a refund on my Tennogen purchases, I don't think for a second however they'll be granted.

Oh well. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by DeMonkey

[arch111]

55 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Actually, the best way is to lie to the game.

Given a recent thing someone posted on Reddit that apparently console users can do about selecting the normal body as a skin (like we can with helmets) has sparked an idea on my head. I'm going to send details to Taylor to see if she can check with Programming about it.

Go ahead. I dont see how that's any different to what they want to do now, but give it a try.

[NightmareT12]

2 hours ago, arch111 said:

Go ahead. I dont see how that's any different to what they want to do now, but give it a try.

Here you go, sent her a bit ago. Details for anyone interested:
 

Quote

Hey Taylor! I've been giving my head MANY hours of thought as to how would be best to solve the skin issue with TennoGen and Prime parts.

Recently consoles have got their 19.8 update, in which they can select, as if it was a skin, the normal mesh/textures for Warframes (on some it's broken, but it can be done).

We have asked for a mesh selector, which you have already said it'd be freaking difficult to program. But I didn't think of this: In the game there's 2 current skin categories: Those that come with mesh, and those that override textures. What if you guys tried to separate these 2?

Simply put: A new "Body" selector where Options would be, in Valkyr Prime's example: "Valkyr Prime", "Valkyr", "Gersemi Valkyr". If you select Gersemi, you load Gersemi mesh + texture. Like equipping the current deluxe skin.

And then a "Skin" selector where Options would be: "None", "Graxx Valkyr", "Immortal Valkyr". You override the textures on current selected mesh. Like we already do, but making it a surrogate of the above. The engine already kind of handles this, IDK how it selects the mesh behind the scenes, but it should be technically possible.

Basically it's like lying to the game engine, so you're equipping Valkyr but with Valkyr Prime's stats.

This would allow TennoGen to be equipped on other meshes like Deluxe skins, which will most likely look horrendous. UI work would be minimal (only a single submenu button, the rest of the assets are already there) and I guess Programming should be too (it should definitely be easier than making the game just load the mesh itself without having textures) as it's technically changing the current "Skin" category name, then adding a new categeory to put the "Texture overrside" assets, but it's going to require some new Database entries which is the biggest downside to my understanding. Since we're looking at using separate Armor + Syandana color options though, you guys could work on both of these and add them to the DB at the same time.

But it's certainly better than either, forcing people, butchering the Prime models and then making the new parts work on a sort of toggle with terrible results, or keeping it the current way. Or trying to bundle 2 versions for people on a single item. And it would also be able to solve issues like the Nekros Prime wings one! And some issues I've found with a couple of Warframes that have default armor where they clip badly because theren't designed with it like that! So many possibilites for now and the future!

I think it's worth checking with the team.

In case this was what you already tried to do then I'm sorry for wasting your time, but it's something (the way I'm suggesting it could happen, I mean) I haven't seen posted yet.

Thanks for your time, hopefully you can check this out sooner than later :P If you have any doubts, please let me know!

I'm pretty sure this is doable AND easier than what the original idea sounded like. But we'll need to wait for the confirmation from the experts.

EDIT: Some bad and mad photoshop skills to better picture what I said

 

Spoiler

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by NightmareT12

[arch111]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

Here you go, sent her a bit ago. Details for anyone interested:
 

I'm pretty sure this is doable AND easier than what the original idea sounded like. But we'll need to wait for the confirmation from th

I am confused. How is the choice made between

Primeparts + tennogen

And

No Primeparts + tennogen.

Can you dum it down for me :)?

[NightmareT12]

6 minutes ago, arch111 said:

I am confused. How is the choice made between

Primeparts + tennogen

And

No Primeparts + tennogen.

Can you dum it down for me :)?

Like when you equip Warframes. Sans the stats.

Imagine a new category as the mesh+texture. Then, on another submenu, the skins (the only texture ones, like the Immortal Skins) would be equipped over the currently selected model.

Using Valkyr as an example: Imagine a new button before the current skin selector: Body. There you have Valkyr Prime as the first Option (default), Valkyr as the second, Gersemi Valkyr as the third. When you select one of those, it loads the mesh + the corresponding texture, just like now.

Now, on the button below it says "Skin". You enter there, select your Graxx skin. It overrides the textures on the current "body" Choice, whether it's Prime, normal or Gersemi (which would look horrendous of course :P).

Edited February 11, 2017 by NightmareT12

[arch111]

4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Like when you equip Warframes. Sans the stats.

Imagine a new category as the mesh+texture. Then, on another submenu, the skins (the only texture ones, like the Immortal Skins) would be equipped over the currently selected model.

Using Valkyr as an example: Imagine a new button before the current skin selector: Body. There you have Valkyr Prime as the first Option (default), Valkyr as the second, Gersemi Valkyr as the third. When you select one of those, it loads the mesh + the corresponding texture, just like now.

Now, on the button below it says "Skin". You enter there, select your Graxx skin. It overrides the textures on the current "body" Choice, whether it's Prime, normal or Gersemi (which would look horrendous of course :P).

Ah. So first step is I equip Prime Valkyr that gives the stats.

Then I go through your example of Body -> skintextures.

Is that it?

[NightmareT12]

4 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Ah. So first step is I equip Prime Valkyr that gives the stats.

Then I go through your example of Body -> skintextures.

Is that it?

I think that'd be it yes.

Say you want to use Valkyr Graxx as the design is supposed to be:

Warframe:
-Equip Valkyr Prime Warframe
Body:
-Make sure you equip Valkyr body instead of Valkyr Prime. This will make you load the body and textures of normal Valkyr
Skin:
-Make sure you equip Graxx Skin. This will make the game keep the Valkyr model and apply the Graxx textures over it

And voilà. Graxx skin looks normal on Valkyr Prime.

EDIT: Let me see if I can do some bad photoshopping for a mock up.

Edited February 11, 2017 by NightmareT12

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

Here you go, sent her a bit ago. Details for anyone interested:
 

I'm pretty sure this is doable AND easier than what the original idea sounded like. But we'll need to wait for the confirmation from the experts.

So, I used to make mods for Arma 2 and Arma 3. Your idea sounds like what they do. They have what is called hiddenSelections and hiddenSelectionsTextures. The hiddenSelections, defined in the model itself via LODs, if I recall, determine which parts of the model can receive texture swaps (the hiddenSelectionsTextures). In one line of code, they designate the hiddenSelections, and in the next line, they input the paths to the hiddenSelectionsTextures. It works VERY well for Arma 3, but it would require DE to implement new systems and to entirely change the way they handle models in Warframe. That would take a lot of time to implement, and would probably take away time from areas that need work in Warframe. IMO, the most straightforward way to go about this would be to just offer two Tennogen skins for Prime warframes - one with the Prime parts and one without the Prime parts.

[arch111]

5 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I think that'd be it yes.

Say you want to use Valkyr Graxx as the design is supposed to be:

Warframe:
-Equip Valkyr Prime Warframe
Body:
-Make sure you equip Valkyr body instead of Valkyr Prime. This will make you load the body and textures of normal Valkyr
Skin:
-Make sure you equip Graxx Skin. This will make the game keep the Valkyr model and apply the Graxx textures over it

And voilà. Graxx skin looks normal on Valkyr Prime.

Ok. I am very curious if the current setup somehow prevents this. It should SHOULD (in my non-dev knowledge of such things) be only 1 step to separate it like you outlined.

[NightmareT12]

29 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Ok. I am very curious if the current setup somehow prevents this. It should SHOULD (in my non-dev knowledge of such things) be only 1 step to separate it like you outlined.

This is what I tried to say (edited my original post and I'm gonna edit Taylor's PM as well)

ome bad and mad photoshop skills to better picture what I said
 

  Hide contents

So seeing their current set up, it'd require:

-New DB entries
-New UI button
-Move around assets in UI
-Make new category that applies skins as they're applied now, but without trying to autoselect the model for us

[arch111]

32 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

This is what I tried to say (edited my original post and I'm gonna edit Taylor's PM as well)

ome bad and mad photoshop skills to better picture what I said
 

  Hide contents

So seeing their current set up, it'd require:

-New DB entries
-New UI button
-Move around assets in UI
-Make new category that applies skins as they're applied now, but without trying to autoselect the model for us

Nicely done :)

Hopefully this works. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by arch111

[NightmareT12]

1 hour ago, AntoineFlemming said:

So, I used to make mods for Arma 2 and Arma 3. Your idea sounds like what they do. They have what is called hiddenSelections and hiddenSelectionsTextures. The hiddenSelections, defined in the model itself via LODs, if I recall, determine which parts of the model can receive texture swaps (the hiddenSelectionsTextures). In one line of code, they designate the hiddenSelections, and in the next line, they input the paths to the hiddenSelectionsTextures. It works VERY well for Arma 3, but it would require DE to implement new systems and to entirely change the way they handle models in Warframe. That would take a lot of time to implement, and would probably take away time from areas that need work in Warframe. IMO, the most straightforward way to go about this would be to just offer two Tennogen skins for Prime warframes - one with the Prime parts and one without the Prime parts.

Actually, what they need to do is change how they handle skins and not models.

Because if console players are able to equip regular Warframes on their Primes, then it's taking the skins that you want to use as Texture Overrides and make a new category for them so they don't autochoose the model.

Basically so we can do this: 

And then equip textures on top. Which if I'm not mistaken seeing how this all is handled should be a workaround for the system they have currently in place.

[clemza]

On 08/02/2017 at 9:04 PM, [DE]Taylor said:

EDIT:

As you know February 15 is the plan for this for PC - but based on the heat here we're honestly scrambling a bit to figure out a way to have our cake and eat it too. We'll have a detailed post to follow - we haven't gone anywhere, just a heads up! 

Thanks.

I can't find my post but some month ago i gave feedback and made a thread about about that idea.

 

Add a "Model" menue for all Prime warframes (with normal / prime model):

 

1 -> People who wants the original warframe "model" on their prime will be happy.

        -> People who wants the original tennogen skin on their prime warframe can have it via this option, they will be happy.

 

2 -> People who wants to keep the skin on the prime model will be happy.

 

Everyone is happy :)

 

[lukinu_u]

22 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Here you go, sent her a bit ago. Details for anyone interested:
 

I'm pretty sure this is doable AND easier than what the original idea sounded like. But we'll need to wait for the confirmation from the experts.

EDIT: Some bad and mad photoshop skills to better picture what I said

 

  Hide contents

 

This.

And why not add some different color patterns on deluxe skins ?
And maybe add them for Tennogen ? Of coruse, the user will have to buy the Deluxe body + the Tennogen skin.

[NightmareT12]

3 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

This.

And why not add some different color patterns on deluxe skins ?
And maybe add them for Tennogen ? Of coruse, the user will have to buy the Deluxe body + the Tennogen skin.

What do you mean by this?

[Valiant]

23 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Here you go, sent her a bit ago. Details for anyone interested:
 

I'm pretty sure this is doable AND easier than what the original idea sounded like. But we'll need to wait for the confirmation from the experts.

EDIT: Some bad and mad photoshop skills to better picture what I said

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

To be honest I thought this is what they would do anyways, opposed to some sort of true prime part toggle. However, I think as someone said earlier, they go on about potential bloat or whatever. Not that I'm fussed about bloat anyways.  

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Naith said:

To be honest I thought this is what they would do anyways, opposed to some sort of true prime part toggle. However, I think as someone said earlier, they go on about potential bloat or whatever. Not that I'm fussed about bloat anyways.  

TBH I think everyone's missing my point.

To the end user, us, the difference between suggesting this and a mesh selector is null.

To their coding team, though, it might be different. I'm not asking for them for a way to retrieve meshes. I'm asking to build this on top of their currently implemented system. Not sure if you see where I'm going.

[lukinu_u]

51 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

What do you mean by this?

I means adding some skin over the Deluxe model, how immortals skins work on the base model.
I said "color pattern" instead skin because I though about immortals skins that only affect the color mask channel (not the diffuse, normal, metal and roughness).

[kouji86]

This is ridiculous I spend my cash on tennogen to support the creators and to apply these skin on my prime frames, if certain individual are too lazy to farm for the prime parts or cheap, they should not be taking in a much higher regard compared to the vets or everyone else who grinds. If this is the future of tennogen they I will never purchase nor support the creators, yet again DE you are changing the way we play for the worst, learn to listening to the actual players and not individuals who feel inferior so they must ruin everyone's fun. Most players do not always come on the forums nor reddit, the majority of people who post on the forums are complaining to nerf this and that, that is not the majority of players in warframe. Learn to listen and actually do your research.

[Lorellya]

Welp. If this is really the case, if there won't be a toggle option, I want all the money I wasted on tennogen skins back. This stupid change wasnt in the description, I want my money back or a toggle option.

[Me.KayOh]

I feel for the folks who've purchased the tennogen and want a refund. I was waiting on the new round of tennogen to be released because I loved the new Saryn Skins. I tried the existing Saryn tennogen skins on my Saryn Prime and I saw how the Prime bits and stuff remained; however, this is what was gonna  make me purchase the tennogen for her in the first place. I worked very very hard to farm specifically the Saryn Prime bp, the Saryn Prime Neuroptics, the Saryn Prime Chassis and the Saryn Prime Systems and I feel it is quite unfair that the visual benefits of having farmed this prime frame will be removed if I also want to support DE and tennogen authors by purchasing and equipping tennogen skins on my Saryn Prime.

Here she is with her immortal skin equipped

http://prnt.sc/e7u4kx

Here she is with the Graxx skin equipped

http://prnt.sc/e7u4yj

So I was prepared to purchase the new tennogen skin because I rly liked how it looked and I assumed that the prime bits would remain on the frame, as it did with the Graxx skin. But I guess I was wrong.

This decision is a stark contrast to what I assumed to be DE's encouragement and fondness of Fashionframe. It remains a disappointing decision but at least I get to keep my money and defer from tennogen purchases.

Edited February 12, 2017 by kalikilic

[arch111]

I hope a solution that works for everyone can be found.

Until then,  why not keep the current system? A rushed change that will be bother some to rollback (are they ever?) will not go well.

[Ausicav]

Ok on the subject of this primed tennogen skins,  if no toggle-able button is available would a system where when you buy a tennogen skin you get 2 variants primed and normal (prime warframes only). 

E.G. two boxes would be like this,

Valkyr Graxx (Primed)    Valkyr Graxx (standard)

Would this work or not, i think the best thing is to give choice to everyone not funnel us down a single path.