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Add punishment for mission leeches


FoxsongHD
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No one likes playing in a mission with someone who refuses to pull their own weight and instead makes you do it and then have a piss fit at you when you call them out. There needs to be some sort of punishment for mission leeches because more and more are spawning because they know they won't be punished for it.

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Maybe have a 'kill X enemies in X time' that refreshes itself and increases the number of enemies that need to be killed to get Life Support, and other features like this for other missions?

Note: Each person must contribute to to it, and everyone can only contribute a fixed amount (I.e: 100 kills in 10 minutes = 25 per person, if squad is full; if not, the numbers will be adjusted accordingly). Failure to do so will result in that person's energy being removed, and their shields being halved. Success will restore removed energy and shields.

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The issue is, when people take stuff to level, so, are actually trying, but don't seem like their doing much, they get labeled as leechers and ridiculed.

It's happened to me before. I took freshly forma'd gear and frame onto Akkad (so no powers to start with, and a lot less mods than normal), and I got labeled as a leech because I was leveling. Obviously I stood my ground and told them to wisen up, but still...

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I don't know why we can't have stricter systems for this.  Overwatch has an insanely short afk timer that will kick you out (45 seconds or so) after not moving, Ghost Recon Phantoms (most recent one) has a vote-kick system that works beautifully, games that have player created servers have mod tools that allow for player kicks, and we have this incredibly vague "nobody-really-knows-what-it-does" system that doesn't give you basic rewards after not doing... er... something?  I've been waiting for something to be done about this for a while, but no attention has really been brought to it.

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Just now, Koldraxon-732 said:

Maybe have a 'kill X enemies in X time' that refreshes itself and increases the number of enemies that need to be killed to get Life Support, and other features like this for other missions?

Note: Each person must contribute to to it, and everyone can only contribute a fixed amount (I.e: 100 kills in 10 minutes = 25 per person, if squad is full; if not, the numbers will be adjusted accordingly). Failure to do so will result in that person's energy being removed, and their shields being halved. Success will restore removed energy and shields.

That would create other problems though, you don't need kills for spies which is the main issue, and the game has so many 1 hit skills in the game that would probably punish people that actually are playing. Was thinking more like a heavily enforced report option.

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1 minute ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

Maybe have a 'kill X enemies in X time' that refreshes itself and increases the number of enemies that need to be killed to get Life Support, and other features like this for other missions?

Note: Each person must contribute to to it, and everyone can only contribute a fixed amount (I.e: 100 kills in 10 minutes = 25 per person, if squad is full; if not, the numbers will be adjusted accordingly). Failure to do so will result in that person's energy being removed, and their shields being halved. Success will restore removed energy and shields.

The problem with that is, if one of your squad partners is a high clearing setup, like an ember, simulor mirage, that cleans rooms before you even enter them, you get marked as afk?

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1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

The issue is, when people take stuff to level, so, are actually trying, but don't seem like their doing much, they get labeled as leechers and ridiculed.

It's happened to me before. I took freshly forma'd gear and frame onto Akkad (so no powers to start with, and a lot less mods than normal), and I got labeled as a leech because I was leveling. Obviously I stood my ground and told them to wisen up, but still...

I'm more or less talking about people that $&*^ around in spies and make you do all the work, way too many times have I been the only person to do every single vault and its starting to annoy me greatly.

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1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

The issue is, when people take stuff to level, so, are actually trying, but don't seem like their doing much, they get labeled as leechers and ridiculed.

It's happened to me before. I took freshly forma'd gear and frame onto Akkad (so no powers to start with, and a lot less mods than normal), and I got labeled as a leech because I was leveling. Obviously I stood my ground and told them to wisen up, but still...

there's a difference between leeching and leveling.  OP is talking about leeching, which involves purposefully being afk.  Usually if you're actually doing something, the stats reflect it.

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1 minute ago, -NvO-Venom said:

there's a difference between leeching and leveling.  OP is talking about leeching, which involves purposefully being afk.  Usually if you're actually doing something, the stats reflect it.

You could be walking in circles doing nothing but that, you are leeching, but not trying

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2 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

The issue is, when people take stuff to level, so, are actually trying, but don't seem like their doing much, they get labeled as leechers and ridiculed.

It's happened to me before. I took freshly forma'd gear and frame onto Akkad (so no powers to start with, and a lot less mods than normal), and I got labeled as a leech because I was leveling. Obviously I stood my ground and told them to wisen up, but still...

The solution is to -always- bring a powerful weapon with you that you can rely on to save you in circumstances that would kill you, and to mod your Warframe for maximum hp/shp until you rank it enough to rebuild the build.
The main problem is that people who forma and bring newly forma'd or made frames in don't have the logic to consider health/shields/armour over everything else for the frame until it has enough mod space and powers are available.

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They need to implement a kick option. Any of the squad members could initiate the voting to kick somebody and if all 3 players (excluding the person that is to be kicked) vote for the player to be kicked then he's out. 

I know everyone's going to be like "oh but that's gonna get abused so much". I want to ask, how did you come to that conclusion? Do you just go into a mission assuming people are about to play with are total A******s. Because this community, at least to my standards with all the multiplayers i've played before, is not toxic AT ALL. I have only met a few players so far that seem like they may abuse something like this, other than that people seem normal enough to not be $&*^heads just because.

 

4 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

The issue is, when people take stuff to level, so, are actually trying, but don't seem like their doing much, they get labeled as leechers and ridiculed.

It's happened to me before. I took freshly forma'd gear and frame onto Akkad (so no powers to start with, and a lot less mods than normal), and I got labeled as a leech because I was leveling. Obviously I stood my ground and told them to wisen up, but still...

I'm sorry, but that is leeching. If you go into mission to level your equipment and you bring not a single weapon or warframe that can do anything useful, then you are leeching. Go into earth mission with all the lvl 0 stuff and lvl it there, you'll be on the same level as those who are just starting to play the game.

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While I tend to agree, it is a very difficult thing to do. Even though people are in a group together, doesn't mean they are all on the same page. Some people blow through the mission and run to the extraction asap, but others like to explore a find items. So, if you put in a penalty clause that says, "those who don't make the extraction before timeout will not get all items gathered or will forfeit quest rewards," then in those situations (which is nearly all of them) where you have people with separate agendas (but are holding their own in-mission) you will have legit individuals getting screwed for no real reason.

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1 minute ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

The solution is to -always- bring a powerful weapon with you that you can rely on to save you in circumstances that would kill you, and to mod your Warframe for maximum hp/shp until you rank it enough to rebuild the build.
The main problem is that people who forma and bring newly forma'd or made frames in don't have the logic to consider health/shields/armour over everything else for the frame until it has enough mod space and powers are available.

Bringing another weapon means less affinity for the gear you are leveling, so you will need to farm more, and people want things leveled asap.

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i send msg from  one of DE about leeches cz number of them is like never before.. punishment system  in my opinion would be.. -300.000credits.......no xp.no focus.no any reward...also to be server side monitored system....first warning... second 30 ayes ban.  3th permanent ban  

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7 minutes ago, -NvO-Venom said:

there's a difference between leeching and leveling.  OP is talking about leeching, which involves purposefully being afk.  Usually if you're actually doing something, the stats reflect it.

 

1 minute ago, MrBlas619 said:

Bringing another weapon means less affinity for the gear you are leveling, so you will need to farm more, and people want things leveled asap.

That exactly is what leeching means. You don't necessarily have to be afk, but if you're doing nothing useful with the excuse that all your stuff is lvl0 and you can't do anything even if you try, then you might as well be afk because what is the difference?!

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8 minutes ago, ashrah said:

i send msg from  one of DE about leeches cz number of them is like never before.. punishment system  in my opinion would be.. -300.000credits.......no xp.no focus.no any reward...also to be server side monitored system....first warning... second 30 ayes ban.  3th permanent ban  

Well, that escalated quickly, i think a permaban for afk is absurd, it's not hurting anybody, it's not inulting anybody, being afk shouldn't be punished with a permaban under any circunstances. 

I think they should implement some kind of "counter", for example, for each 5 times you leech, you get like 10% less credits, resources and affinity. The problem still is "who is leeching, and who is not?".

7 minutes ago, Gruumzh said:

 

That exactly is what leeching means. You don't necessarily have to be afk, but if you're doing nothing useful with the excuse that all your stuff is lvl0 and you can't do anything even if you try, then you might as well be afk because what is the difference?!

If i'm at least trying, means that i'm actually spending time on playing the game, if you stay afk, you could be watching TV or any kind of stuff and still be in the game. I think there's a little difference there, at least in morality, in actual gameplay, i understand if you see both as leeching.

Edited by MrBlas619
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22 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

I'm more or less talking about people that $&*^ around in spies and make you do all the work, way too many times have I been the only person to do every single vault and its starting to annoy me greatly.

So why don't you solo them in the first place? I play Spy either solo or with my friend, and because I have memorized all vaults by now, he makes some noise at the entrance while I clear them out. Which would mark him as leech in your system. No, thanks.

Edited by Bibliothekar
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This isn't something you can report using the right click function in the recent players (communication > friends), this needs proof, this needs details and those can only be done via support.

Leechers will sometimes play (20%) if given a small scare in the chat as some players do indeed care for the accounts they use to play warframe, the rest (80%) will either not reply/care or will engage in a full scare tactic to dissuade you from doing reports, things such as:

  • "i'm not violating the rules"
  • offensive remarks
  • "i will report you aswell"
  • "i don't care, nothing will happen, DE will never ban or warn a MR22 founder"
  • trolling or stalling tactics (like holding datamasses forever)
  • dying on purpose so they have time to chat, often trying you to break the rules by flaming them, giving them a valid reason to report you under the category "offensive languange"

I have been updated in some cases by these users themselves regarding the situation, trust me on this, leeching and afk gameplay leads nowhere except an account warn or ban.

I have my share of experiences

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Note: i'm talking about afk behavior, the leeching that some think it's reportable may not be reportable in the end, if the player is playing somehow, moving or even controlling the warframe in some way, he can't be reported or punished, even if he doesn't do much, doesn't do any spy vaults,  doesn't do the kuva all that well, keeps dying,.....

Reporting leeching behavior can only be done if the user has been afk for an extended period of time, like remaining dead, hiding in a corner, staying at spawn, anything else is valid but it is considered lack of effort and poor gameplay, the punishment ends up being a lackluster experience in warframe, increased grind and fustration over the game as a whole.

The entire "this MR0 excal didn't do anything but run from spawn to extraction" isn't a reportable offense, it only becomes that once he stops all gameplay and uses the teammates to finish the mission for them, players need to learn what is and what isn't reportable.

Embers that use world on fire in defenses but then afk until the ability ends 3 minutes later is a reportable offense as the user isn't playing, usually this becomes obvious when the energy runs out, late reaction to chat warnings and hiding spots.

Edited by KIREEK
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Allies that stay afk duing a mission already do not get rewards or affinity gains. The 'leechers' in this situation are already having to move or kill enemies with weapons or the afk system already in place prevents them from getting anything of value. In fact, if the players all afk on missions like Exterminate, it will fail after a bit of inactivity. Sentinels also stop working for the afk player after a few seconds or so. So the difference between levelers and 'leechers' isn't that much different, as long as they want to benefit from being in the mission that is. So I guess we have to ask ourselves, "Do we want to punish allies that don't contribute as much?", or players could avoid random of course to avoid such as with random you get both the good and bad.

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6 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

So why don't you solo them in the first place? I play Spy either solo or with my friend, and because I have memorized all vaults by now, he makes some noise at the entrance while I clear them out. Which would mark him as leech in your system. No, thanks.

I don't play spy solo because I like to help other players whether they know how to do it or not, if they don't I help them. Why should I be punished and make myself unable to possibly make new friends or help people because others are lazy?

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2 minutes ago, MrBlas619 said:

I think they should implement some kind of "counter", for example, for each 5 times you leech, you get like 10% less credits, resources and affinity.

9 minutes ago, Gruumzh said:

I don't think it's possible to make a system that would be able to determine on it's own who's leeching and who isn't. There's too many factors to look into to be able to set up a clear criteria of when you get removed from a mission or whatever punishment it may be, which is why I think it would be the best to leave it up to players to deal with leechers by implementing a kick option. No further punishment needed, the player leeching is voted out of the mission by the remaining 3 players. The player doesn't get any rewards, but they don't really lose anything either except their time. It's not that big of a deal that it deserves harsher punishment but is discouraging enough to make them not leech again, especially when it would be easy for players to recognize and kick a leech from the mission.

10 minutes ago, MrBlas619 said:

If i'm at least trying, means that i'm actually spending time on playing the game, if you stay afk, you could be watching TV or any kind of stuff and still be in the game. I think there's a little difference there, at least in morality, in actual gameplay, i understand if you see both as leeching.

Yes, of course they aren't literally the same thing and I too would rather carry a player who doesn't have strong enough equipment to be useful rather than someone who just doesn't care to contribute and afks. But I think you got exactly what I was trying to say there, it doesn't make any significant difference to the other players whether you're completely afk and watching TV or you are just useless because you did not want to bring at least one weapon to be somewhat useful. In that sense, there's really not a big difference and both players are leeching and expecting you to do everything for them.

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Matchmaking is part of the problem, and any anti-leech system has to take into account the vast discrepancy in player skill and item ranks. When an MR 0 Mag gets teamed up with an MR 23 Ember, MR23 Equinox, and MR23 Excal, they will be lucky to get a single kill, let alone 1% of the Damage Done stat at the end of the mission.

I'm all for punishing leeches and AFKholes, but it's a complex problem that doesn't have a simple solution.

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29 minutes ago, Gruumzh said:

I'm sorry, but that is leeching. If you go into mission to level your equipment and you bring not a single weapon or warframe that can do anything useful, then you are leeching. Go into earth mission with all the lvl 0 stuff and lvl it there, you'll be on the same level as those who are just starting to play the game.

It's not leeching.

I always go into missions with low level gear that have been forma'd, and so are not as powerful as they can be, to level them. I always fight, and I always try, it just takes longer. Why would I go to level 2 missions when I have access to level 30's that will level my gear faster, that I can still solo?
Its not leeching, its leveling, there is a difference. I'm talking about when someone goes to a mission for leveling, and is accused of leeching despite fighting and doing what they can with the equipment at hand.

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