Add punishment for mission leeches

[FoxsongHD]

17 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

But why add a new option when we already have one as @Noamuth said? And one that's objectively better than a simple "Report for ..." in-game, since you can attach actual proof that they're leeching (possibly even with them admitting to it)? If DE wanted to make the in-game option as good as a support ticket (and they have to do that if they want to ban players for breaking the rules), they'd have to record every single mission you play, just in case you want to report someone for leeching. And boy I'd be pi$$ed when they'd gobble up my disk space with that.

The way reporting works (more than likely) is DE is given some sort of warning if someone is reported to many times in a certain amount of time, after that they decide whether or not its just or not, they don't record spammers or harassers games which is what I'm comparing it to. Not everyone has access to recording software and I don't see how another report option in game could possibly eat enough space for it to make a difference for your computer. I really don't see why another report category in game makes you so opposed to it.

Edited February 18, 2017 by FoxsongHD

[MagPrime]

8 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

I... don't see how another report option in game could possibly eat enough space for it to make a difference for your computer.

Some people play on toasters.  I have a friend that has to delete one game to download another due to storage limits.

[Eyrfith]

16 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

But why add a new option when we already have one as @Noamuth said? And one that's objectively better than a simple "Report for ..." in-game, since you can attach actual proof that they're leeching (possibly even with them admitting to it)? If DE wanted to make the in-game option as good as a support ticket (and they have to do that if they want to ban players for breaking the rules), they'd have to record every single mission you play, just in case you want to report someone for leeching. And boy I'd be pi$$ed when they'd gobble up my disk space with that.

First of all, i'm pissed with leechers as much as all of you, but seriously? taking screens, sending a ticket, wait for DE to look at it and doing something about it, seems, at least for me, too much work and time that could be a lot lower with a proper regulated kick option.

[FoxsongHD]

Just now, Noamuth said:

Some people play on toasters.  I have a friend that has to delete one game to download another due to storage limits.

A song would take more space than a button that sends info to a server.

[MagPrime]

Just now, FoxsongHD said:

A song would take more space than a button that sends info to a server.

Not with what Biblio was talking about.

[FoxsongHD]

Just now, MrBlas619 said:

First of all, i'm pissed with leechers as much as all of you, but seriously? taking screens, sending a ticket, wait for DE to look at it and doing something about it, seems, at least for me, too much work and time that could be a lot lower with a proper regulated kick option.

I agree, I don't want to waste time on something that could easily be solved in literally 4 clicks of a mouse

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, Noamuth said:

Not with what Biblio was talking about.

Recording your game isn't what I'm talking about, again its just another option added to the report tab.

[Bibliothekar]

1 minute ago, FoxsongHD said:

Recording your game isn't what I'm talking about, again its just another option added to the report tab.

Yes, but DE needs proof if they want to act on your report. And that means they'll have to record your game in the background so they can send the video of the mission in question to their servers, should you press the button. Because they need proof. If they ban players willy-nilly just because someone reported them, they open a huge can of worms.

[Eyrfith]

8 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Yes, but DE needs proof if they want to act on your report. And that means they'll have to record your game in the background so they can send the video of the mission in question to their servers, should you press the button. Because they need proof. If they ban players willy-nilly just because someone reported them, they open a huge can of worms.

Maybe you are focusing it at the short term, like almost insta-ban, i think it would be healthier for the community to make it a little bit more long term, i mean, with a simple "Repor for: leeching" option you gain a lot, because yeah, everyone could report for leeching someone who is not just for rage itself. That can happen one, two, three, times, but when you have, let's say like 20 reports of the same player for leeching, i think that's because something happens, and again, a ban for leeching (or being afk), is too harsh in my opinion. I think it would be better to warn the player, and then punish him/her with some resource/credit/affinity penalty for X time.

Edited February 18, 2017 by MrBlas619

[FoxsongHD]

31 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Yes, but DE needs proof if they want to act on your report. And that means they'll have to record your game in the background so they can send the video of the mission in question to their servers, should you press the button. Because they need proof. If they ban players willy-nilly just because someone reported them, they open a huge can of worms.

So you believe that everything under the reports tab should be deleted and should be reported to DE directly? Not sure if you know this but that's not how it works.

[Bibliothekar]

14 hours ago, FoxsongHD said:

So you believe that everything under the reports tab should be deleted and should be reported to DE directly?

What reports tab are you even talking about? I couldn't find a "Report" option anywhere in the game, not even in chat.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Bibliothekar

[Eyrfith]

7 hours ago, Bibliothekar said:

What reports tab are you even talking about? I couldn't find a "Report" option anywhere in the game, not even in chat.

You haven't searched that good then (sorry, i'm spanish and i have my client in spanish, but the marked option is to report), you can find it in "Menu->Communications->Friends->Recent Players->Right click on player"

Edited February 19, 2017 by Eyrfith

[Bibliothekar]

1 hour ago, Eyrfith said:

You haven't searched that good then (sorry, i'm spanish and i have my client in spanish, but the marked option is to report), you can find it in "Menu->Communications->Friends->Recent Players->Right click on player"

Uh, yeah ... makes perfect sense to search randoms under friends (also, three levels deep in the menu).

I'm seriously starting to consider gifting @[DE]Pablo a copy of Overwatch so he can take a look at their menus and maybe take some inspiration.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

On 2/18/2017 at 1:40 PM, ashrah said:

i send msg from  one of DE about leeches cz number of them is like never before.. punishment system  in my opinion would be.. -300.000credits.......no xp.no focus.no any reward...also to be server side monitored system....first warning... second 30 ayes ban.  3th permanent ban  

300k?? ok thats a bit way TO much. 

[ashrah]

12 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

300k?? ok thats a bit way TO much. 

that is just example how they can  fix problem... but if u wish to prevent  behavior like that punishment need to be radical....

[Chipputer]

On 2/18/2017 at 4:25 PM, Bibliothekar said:

Yes, but DE needs proof if they want to act on your report. And that means they'll have to record your game in the background so they can send the video of the mission in question to their servers, should you press the button. Because they need proof. If they ban players willy-nilly just because someone reported them, they open a huge can of worms.

Multiple screenshots, different angles of where the player is AFK-ing, clear indication that they haven't moved a while later (easy to do in wave/time based missions, more difficult in others), shots of the end-results screen showing lack of work, etc.

There are many ways to prove someone was AFK without having to record. The issue is if they're actually AFK/Leeching or if you're just upset they had to step out before they wet their pants because you ran into a bit of trouble that the person could have helped with.

[Eyrfith]

3 hours ago, Bibliothekar said:

Uh, yeah ... makes perfect sense to search randoms under friends (also, three levels deep in the menu).

I'm seriously starting to consider gifting @[DE]Pablo a copy of Overwatch so he can take a look at their menus and maybe take some inspiration.

No one said that was easy to find, but don't say you couldn't find it in the game, i actually found it while investigating every option in every menu

[Elyann]

On 18/2/2017 at 9:58 PM, FoxsongHD said:

Its more or less passion rather than toxicity, I just hate having to do someones work because they would rather be lazy and wait at extraction the entire match while the others do their work. As petty as it is, I hate it and would like something to at least threaten them so stop.

I understand said will and my post's content wasn't related to the thread's title as much as to some of the comments I saw posted by some users ;

In any case...this is a delicate subject to touch since leeching / afking (without any reason / warning / ecc ) should indeed be dealt with, however there's many people who do actually play missions and try to be useful...but that cause of the fact they are leveling or re-leveling weapons from scratch or that they aren't using a dps frame ( Trinities, Novas and so on....) just won't deal as much damage as the other players.

Now, this second case as well as just the "newbie" case doesn't mean they are leeching, it means they are trying to deal with the mission by using what they have and doing their best...I mean....we all had and still have to use one or two level 0 weapons on Akkad or even in sorties sometimes...and we all had to shoot with them in order to make them earn some affinity that wasn't just shared exp. 

Altough some people do actually believe that this has to be considered as leeching, it simply isn't and players shouldn't be penalized for being new or for using unmaxed weapons ; warframe is based around leveling and re-leveling, it's a game where preferences matter and metas do not (unless you really feel like going for a 7 hours survival for no other reason than " I wanna be the very best" ) and the game itself gives you the possibility not to meet any leechers / newbies / people leveling gear / ecc....there's clans, there's lfg , there's friends menu...if you solo queue for any mission, however, you should be expecting for at least one bad or new player to pop up.

Implementing a "kick" feauture would simply make people kick everyone who doesn't have a frame they like , perfectly leveled and modded weapons , people whose MR is low and so on...and this is why it should never be a thing.

An "afk" auto-kick such as Overwatch's isn't the solution either since it can happen for a player to have to leave their chair for a moment to go opening the housedoor or help a relative who asked them for something and those 45 seconds might not be enough ( hell, Overwatch kicks me from its training yard too when I tab out and look for a guide to some character, it's just ridiculous...) .

I agree that having a "report" feauture *maybe* would be the best option available that isn't actually going to ruin anyone's fun cause of elitist players / jerks / impatient people / ecc...but even in this case I'd like to be sure that players can not abuse of said feauture so that they won't just be like "You report me ? Then I'll report you, GMs have no proofs".

So...again...there's just no real solution to this as imposing one would end up damaging some players and not thinking about any wouldn't just stop the issue ;
Players will always find a workaround , no matter how good the idea can look on paper , and damage the others at their advantage...and by definition...abuse of said solution's power.

[Bibliothekar]

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Multiple screenshots, different angles of where the player is AFK-ing, clear indication that they haven't moved a while later (easy to do in wave/time based missions, more difficult in others), shots of the end-results screen showing lack of work, etc.

I was talking about stuff the game can do automatically in the background. That the end-of-mission screen doesn't show anything about a player's actual contribution has already been established. And how is the game supposed to take screenshots of another player if you don't look at them?

[Chipputer]

12 hours ago, Bibliothekar said:

I was talking about stuff the game can do automatically in the background. That the end-of-mission screen doesn't show anything about a player's actual contribution has already been established. And how is the game supposed to take screenshots of another player if you don't look at them?

You look at them. Generally an AFK/Leech is a pretty obvious one and people don't fault you for going and taking a few quick screenshots. More often than not they're wasting more time explaining how irate they are that the person is sitting in spawn the whole mission than you are taking a few shots to save for later, anyway.

Your solution needs to cater to everyone, not just those with decent hard drives. That's not even to mention the amount of performance hitting that would happen with a background recording method. The only way this could even come close to being implemented is via a Source Engine/Quake styled "Demo" function that would automatically pop the directory up after being recorded and the game allocated space, directly, for it when installed, instead of having to use your other free hard drive space.

I'm not sure how long that would take to get working in the game, though.

[KIREEK]

I can confirm that screenshots are enough, having the name on screen, showing the location the minimap (if possible since some players at spawn are so far away the minimap can't show them), screenshots at different times and angles to show that the player didn't revive/play for several minutes, stat screen at the end if that helps (sometimes it's pointless and the screenshots need to be from the actual game as the stats may not represent leeching behavior)

Yes, players sometimes remain at spawn, don't revive, hide in corners (happens alot in survivals) and reports in some cases are hard to do as alot is going on at the time (kuva flood enemies, survival) so the quicker you do it, the better.

But you need to do it, you can't just think of reporting and expecting your toughts to do anything, you need to provide sufficient evidence and a clear info on what happened.

They will stop leeching and the community gains a player instead, very, very rarely they will repeat the offense and will likely beg if another report is mentioned by anyone, in those cases just do what i do, finish them off.

Yes, the next time you play you will find someone trying to tell you that reports do nothing, you can't report or that they will report you instead, just keep calm and do what you think must be done, for some players doing nothing is what they want and we need to respect that.

[Shockwave-]

On 2/18/2017 at 1:28 PM, Koldraxon-732 said:

Maybe have a 'kill X enemies in X time' that refreshes itself and increases the number of enemies that need to be killed to get Life Support, and other features like this for other missions?

Note: Each person must contribute to to it, and everyone can only contribute a fixed amount (I.e: 100 kills in 10 minutes = 25 per person, if squad is full; if not, the numbers will be adjusted accordingly). Failure to do so will result in that person's energy being removed, and their shields being halved. Success will restore removed energy and shields.

Uh no... If I'm a quake banshee and my EV trin is doing her job she won't be getting ANY kills. This is rediculous view of what it means to be good. Killing does not equal good play.

 

On 2/18/2017 at 1:35 PM, Gruumzh said:

They need to implement a kick option. Any of the squad members could initiate the voting to kick somebody and if all 3 players (excluding the person that is to be kicked) vote for the player to be kicked then he's out. 

I know everyone's going to be like "oh but that's gonna get abused so much". I want to ask, how did you come to that conclusion? Do you just go into a mission assuming people are about to play with are total A******s. Because this community, at least to my standards with all the multiplayers i've played before, is not toxic AT ALL. I have only met a few players so far that seem like they may abuse something like this, other than that people seem normal enough to not be $&*^heads just because.

 

I'm sorry, but that is leeching. If you go into mission to level your equipment and you bring not a single weapon or warframe that can do anything useful, then you are leeching. Go into earth mission with all the lvl 0 stuff and lvl it there, you'll be on the same level as those who are just starting to play the game.

Hell no. Yes it would be abused FAR more often than leechers show up. Leechers show up in less than 1% of missions i've played, They are not a problem AT ALL. The occasional mission brings them out (lua spy on sortie for instance) but that's it, day to day there are virtually no leechers in game that I see. It's not a huge problem that needs a kick system that would be more of a problem. I'd rather have a leecher once a month than get kicked mid mission for not having a "good" frame or not playing they way someone else wants in a public game.

[Shockwave-]

On 2/19/2017 at 8:54 PM, Chipputer said:

Multiple screenshots, different angles of where the player is AFK-ing, clear indication that they haven't moved a while later (easy to do in wave/time based missions, more difficult in others), shots of the end-results screen showing lack of work, etc.

There are many ways to prove someone was AFK without having to record. The issue is if they're actually AFK/Leeching or if you're just upset they had to step out before they wet their pants because you ran into a bit of trouble that the person could have helped with.

Still wouldn't help. If I was DE I would do nothing to that player and here is why. There is 1 situation where that is not the players fault. As long as that one situation exists, it is a rock solid defense to any report of being AFK. That is - the player started the timer on you.

"Hey DE I got back from the sortie with that guy and was milling around my liset, then got up to go do something. Forgot I was in a squad. Dude picked a mission and started the timer on me and i was sucked UNWILLING into that mission... so yeah I was AFK the whole time. Not my fault. It's your fault for allowing someone to suck me in instead of changing the start timer button to "leave with agreeing player button" which leaves the afk player behind.".

I actually did this to someone once (it wasn't a sortie but a invasion) and he must have been done with his 3 and i went again and dragged him. Someone else joined us and by the end was all like "i'm reporting that stupid AFKer" and I had to pipe in and say that i started the timer on him and have no idea if he is even at his PC.

As long as that feature exists where you drag someone unwillingly out of their Liset, instead of leaving them out of the squad (why it isn't that way i have no idea) when they fail to agree, then anyone can simply say they were AFK before the mission started.

Not to mention there is always "hey someone rang the doorbell" my kid hurt himself and i had to get up quick, etc etc. Unless they get multiple reports over long periods of time on the same person and put lots of effort into it, an AFK reprot is  never going to amount to anything and I'd rather have DE putting their time and money into the game, not keeping files on players to kick them.

AFKers are such a non-problem in this game it's not worth the effort it would take. I never see AFK players and the once in a while i do, well just abort and play the mission again, it's faster than getting the screenshots anyway.

The real solution to AFKers is an ignore function (separate from chat), where you can't be matched with anyone on your ignore list. If they are in a squad, the system sees that squad as full when matchmaking you, and vice versa (nobody on your ignore list can join a squad you are in). Done. People who afk once in a great while, no big deal a few people won't join you. If you do it alot, suddenly you are playing alone all the time. Conversely if you are the type who ignores people at the drop of a hat for flimsy reasons then hey YOU are suddenly playing alone all the time.

Add in a decay feature (ignored people slip off your list after 3 months and have to be reignored so that hey, maybe they changed their ways) and you get a system that would work pretty well.

[Bibliothekar]

4 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

That is - the player started the timer on you.

I'm not sure if they've fixed it yet, but not that long back, matchmaking would randomly join you up with other people if you selected a mission and then aborted the countdown again without leaving the starchart entirely.

4 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

As long as that feature exists where you drag someone unwillingly out of their Liset, instead of leaving them out of the squad (why it isn't that way i have no idea) when they fail to agree, then anyone can simply say they were AFK before the mission started.

It is occasionally useful when the menu bugs out on one player and they can't do more than chatting. Sure, they could Alt+F4 and restart the game, but dragging them into a mission also fixes the problem. So if you'd already agreed on the next mission and it happened while they were adjusting their gear ...

Edited February 22, 2017 by Bibliothekar

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

9 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Hell no. Yes it would be abused FAR more often than leechers show up. Leechers show up in less than 1% of missions i've played, They are not a problem AT ALL. The occasional mission brings them out (lua spy on sortie for instance) but that's it, day to day there are virtually no leechers in game that I see. It's not a huge problem that needs a kick system that would be more of a problem. I'd rather have a leecher once a month than get kicked mid mission for not having a "good" frame or not playing they way someone else wants in a public game.

Good. Then we don't need this thread. There's no reason to complain.

I was just throwing in a suggestion for players that are either bothered by leeches or simply can't complete the mission on their own or with the rest of the squad if 1 guy isn't playing the game. I personally don't have any issues with this, I can complete every mission on my own, therefore I don't care if there are any players in my squad and if so whether they are doing anything or not. Honestly though, I'd prefer if players don't do anything on missions like lua spy if they don't know what they're doing, rather than @(*()$ it up.

You know there's no other way to fairly deal with actual leeches, players that aren't afk but aren't doing anything and are therefore utterly useless. All the "make a player kill X enemies withing Y time" is just straight stupid.

On the other hand there's already something in the game that "punishes" people who afk, they get no rewards. So I guess you can just hope that the "leech" is completely afk otherwise you can leave the mission if it troubles you that much. There we go, problem solved, close the thread.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Gruumzh