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Conclave Celestia syandana


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2 hours ago, Heckzu said:

There's no problem with players who just do two~four challenges per day because they're actually putting some effort into playing the game. What we don't want in the Conclave are afk farmers like those that were prevalent during Snowdown Showdown and Quick Steel. If the Celestia's flames were made permanent (which your idea would effectively accomplish), then the Conclave would see hoards of players who just enter and AFK to gain participation standing until they obtain the Celestia because they "feel forced to play" the Conclave, like what happened during Snowdown Showdown and Quick Steel. I don't know about you, but personally, joining a game where nobody is trying to play is less than enjoyable.

2-4 games is effort? :-)

Do you even realize what are you saying ?

Your kda is even worse than other one trying to prove me i don't know what. 1.0 :---)

If people really would want this syandana so bad, what you are saying would already happen, currently that happens only once in a while, and even if what you say would happen, where is the issue, they would eventually disappear, and instead of having 2-4 afk there would be none, perfection.

What kind of proof are you trying to show me ?  I can afk and get those sigils if i want to...

And yeah, players which you just named they seem to be quite good, but do i see them typing something here ? No.

2 hours ago, Heckzu said:

The choice between having a permanently lit Celestia or spending standing on worthless relics? Does that even sound like a choice? Because it's so favored towards the first choice that there's no reason to pick the latter.

But that still is a choice, right now there is only 1 choice, do mere "challenges" .

 

 

2 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

Imo, a match like that is boring, I could go to endless rathuum and have more fun, to the point where I'd prefer leaving than wrecking a random newbie and what seems to be his farming alt account. 

Well apparently i was playing vs someone with 4 hands as they both were jumping and shooting at me :- ) As you see they both got a kill on me. And nice newbie here, MR23 but his kda is total &#! 1:2.1

Do you ever check anything before saying ? Seems not, and that fact just keeps telling me how unaware you are. 

2 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

There's plenty of players who keep doing conclave and not only for the syandana, the fact that you don't see them doesn't mean we don't exist.

 

Well i know my writing English is not the best as i don't come from native English country but that's exactly what i wrote... Players who enjoy PVP will play it and 1 cosmetic item won't change that. So either you have issues with understanding or idk.

2 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

KD is just a meaningless number, and you're giving the reason yourself by trying to use a comparison between ours to make a point. I'm not changing my 1.3/1 KD obtained by playing against the top players from the start (I didn't even have a chance to take part on recruit conditioning) for a 2.1/1 obtained by fighting mostly against players with the parkour skills of a grineer lancer and the accuracy of a storm trooper that don't even bother with counter attacking. I'd even prefer going 1/2 than playing on those lobbies.

Neither do i know vs who you play neither you know vs who i play, as i said, that happens once in a while, i'm pretty sure that happens even to you, and top players ? Pls.. just check liolio profile, top mr23 player there.

Players named by Heckz those were top players and all of their kda is above 2.0 even 9.0+. So i don't know what are you trying to prove me with playing only vs top players.

I know kda is not the most precise factor but it's pretty simple and easy way to see at least some kind of degree how players plays. Just check players Heckzu mentioned :-)

And theoretically if we look at most games i'm coming from region which after Asia is next from where top players are coming, middle of the Europe. 

2 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

You're just being extremist, I can play rugby with my team or have a friendly match against another team just to have a good laugh while talking and practicing at the same time.  I can go public in a conclave match and talk to other players with no need of being competitive nor becoming salty just because someone killed me even if it was with some cheesy tactics. Things don't need to be always black or white.

? So when you do that, you do not try to improve ? What's the point of playing then ? Core goal of games is competition. And having lazy useless player in a team will cause it to lose.

2 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

No, but we don't keep getting medals nor participation prices for something we achieved on the previous tournament. In order to keep getting medals we need to keep training, improving and winning events or earning new titles.

? Again it seems you are not understanding or missing something, you got a medal, you earned it, it's yours, no matter what happens no matter how much time passes it won't disappear as long as you don't sell it or w/e you can do with it. While if we get "medal syandana" someone "cuts out" the place you got after few days. All you see is a piece of metal and no one knows which place you got, useful medal there :). So essentially when you're 70 years old and if you want to get that "place" of medal shown, you would need to go and run against young 20 year old athletes, flawless logic. 

We are not getting multiple different syandanas. We worked and earned the one we wanted. That's it.

In game items should be something you work for, when you earn them, they are yours in the best state possible.

2 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

well, the point is, Celestia syandana has been ceated as a way to encourage players to do conclave and stay active on it, that's why it has an upkeep, to prevent players from getting it and then never do conclave again.

The fact that it doesn't even glow in profile and can't be seen in relay should show you how much has been thought of that syandana.

Edited by Logooooooooo
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1 hour ago, Logooooooooo said:

2-4 games is effort? :-)

Actively playing and completing challenges, regardless of how trivial they are, requires some degree of effort, and if someone can complete 4 challenges in 2~4 matches, who are you to say they're not "PVP players that you want to have"?

1 hour ago, Logooooooooo said:

Your kda is even worse than other one trying to prove me i don't know what. 1.0 :---)

What a great example of ad hominem, a fallacious argument tool used by those who cannot properly defend their argument. Why does K:D matter? Are you resorting you bragging about your epeen now? Because I have significantly more kills in the Conclave than you do, which is more representative of how much experience I have, especially since I'm often playing with players in a much higher skill bracket than I, resulting in my 1:1 K:D.

1 hour ago, Logooooooooo said:

If people really would want this syandana so bad, what you are saying would already happen, currently that happens only once in a while, and even if what you say would happen, where is the issue, they would eventually disappear, and instead of having 2-4 afk there would be none, perfection.

 So, you're saying that an action is justifiable if the consequences will eventually correct themselves, no matter how dire the consequences actually are?

1 hour ago, Logooooooooo said:

What kind of proof are you trying to show me ?

4 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

but as you said you are one of those who come and do 2 challenges and don't enter PVP again(even if you do that cause busy) 

IS THIS REALLY WHAT KIND OF PLAYERS ANYONE WANTS IN PVP ? 0 Effort player, come do something half-hearthly and leave, there is no competition with that kind of player.

You attacked me for saying that I only play to complete my challenges, claiming people such as myself to be "0 effort player, [who] come do something half-heartly and leave". Well, I have everything, but I'm still here.

1 hour ago, Logooooooooo said:

And yeah, players which you just named they seem to be quite good, but do i see them typing something here? No.

SevenLetterKWord and WitchyDragon both responded in this thread. Pythadragon hasn't been active on the forums since Saturday. Phasedragon only posts on the forums once every few days. The rest rarely visit the forums. Not everyone uses the forums, you know.

1 hour ago, Logooooooooo said:

But that is still a choice, right now there is only 1 choice, do more "challenges".

I offered an alternative option that would make more sense: the ability to purchase flames for a temporary period for a large amount of standing. Upkeep would still be required, but not as much, and it wouldn't be as obnoxious as trying to complete challenges.

Edited by Heckzu
Something with the editor broke and made half my text irreversably striked-through
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28 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

SevenLetterKWord and WitchyDragon both responded in this thread. Pythadragon hasn't been active on the forums since Saturday. Phasedragon only posts on the forums once every few days. The rest rarely visit the forums. Not everyone uses the forums, you know.

Actually yeah, i somehow missed that, my mistake, but.. their only "argument" was that all syndicate syandanas require some sort of upkeep but issue here is that those syandanas have quite visible visual without any actions.

 

28 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Actively playing and completing challenges, regardless of how trivial they are, requires some degree of effort, and if someone can complete 4 challenges in 2~4 matches, who are you to say they're not "PVP players that you want to have"?

I have completed one mode specific "challenges" in 1 match without even checking what i have to do. That's how big "effort" you need :-) .

 

28 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

What a great example of ad hominem, a fallacious argument tool used by those who cannot properly defend their argument. Why does K:D matter? Are you resorting you bragging about your epeen now? Because I have significantly more kills in the Conclave than you do, which is more representative of how much experience I have, especially since I'm often playing with players in a much higher skill bracket than I, resulting in my 1:1 K:D.

Then how come those players you mentioned keep their kda at minimum above 2+ ? They are playing vs same or maybe even better players. I'm not trying to show my epeen or anything, i would end up making topic like this even if i was tremendously terrible at conclave. In fact i barely play Warframe at the moment...

I can give pretty decent reasoning behind my thoughts, while your "effort" arguments.. seem pretty absurd.

And your point about kda... made your own words more absurd... ^

 

28 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

So, you're saying that an action is justifiable if the consequences will eventually correct themselves, no matter how dire the consequences actually are?

It's better to have consequence that eventually disappear than have never ending tumor on your neck.

28 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

You attacked me for saying that I only play to complete my challenges, claiming people such as myself to be "0 effort player, [who] come do something half-hearthly and leave". Well, I have everything, but I'm still her

I as well mentioned that i understand you do that cause of not having too much free time..

 

28 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

I offered an alternative option that would make more sense: the ability to purchase flames for a temporary period for a large amount of standing. Upkeep would still be required, but not as much, and it wouldn't be as obnoxious as trying to complete challenges.

And i didn't say a word against it. I'm not against some sort of alternative, there are lots of options, use current standing while you have that syandana equipped 1k or w/e a day, be able to buy tails that you can refill with standing, offer anything, sadly i was at false hope that higher standing people actually would say something but as you can see from my forum post count i'm not the most active here and don't exactly know how often that happens :- ).

Oh hey, look stats actually show some kind of meaning ? ;)

And taking opinion from players that are enjoying current pvp therefore they have those tails pretty much constantly active is quite arguable, some may want to feel more "special" and don't want more people to have it :- ), also it seems they are your friends which could make not true opinion in any kind of topic. So called "friends" may want to defend each other. Of course this is not a 100%, i have no clue so that's just an assumption, but better to have any kind of possibilities in your mind.

Edited by Logooooooooo
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12 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

I have completed one mode specific "challenges" in 1 match without even checking what i have to do. That's how big "effort" you need :-)

But if you need no effort to complete challenges... what's the point of this request other than laziness? "I don't want to bother with the current upkeep system of the Celestia syandana, please move it in a way tha lets me trivialize it" I wouldn't care if the upkeep is changed in a way that allows players to keep celestia lit as long as it's not eternally lit with no need of ever touching conclave again, which is not the proposition seen in the original post.

12 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

I'm not trying to show my epeen or anything, i would end up making topic like this even if i was tremendously terrible at conclave.

You're not trying to show it, just using it to dismiss anyone else's opinion.

12 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

Oh hey, look stats actually show some kind of meaning ? ;)

Not really, MR is just a number, for example, I'm sure that the MR23 "top player" (as you called him) from one of your previous posts wouldn't stand a chance against a player like X (MR2). I'd bet you wouldn't stand a chance against him either if both of you got in the same match.
Also KD ratio can be farmed by staying in RC regardless of becoming skillful enough to fight against good players; leaving a lobby as soon as a good player joins the lobby, etc. so it doesn't serve as a skill measure, let alone to dismiss someone else's opinion.

 

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15 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

But if you need no effort to complete challenges... what's the point of this request other than laziness? "I don't want to bother with the current upkeep system of the Celestia syandana, please move it in a way tha lets me trivialize it" I wouldn't care if the upkeep is changed in a way that allows players to keep celestia lit as long as it's not eternally lit with no need of ever touching conclave again, which is not the proposition seen in the original post.

That's exactly where we have issue, challenges are so useless and pretty much take no effort to complete that just having them is questionable, but well it can boost up standing gain quite significantly so i guess that's a bonus, but connecting this kind of "challenge" with 1 cosmetic item to be viable in my opinion doesn't make any sense. I didn't start playing Warframe from the beginning but i can assume this kind of bonus was added so players get conclave rewards faster, and not even directly faster, just spend less time in mode that only little fraction of players enjoy. (Devs probably understood that.)

Have you tried to actually calculate how much time it actually takes to get this "effortless" syandana ? 100k syandana alone, 240k Typhoon, assuming you are not max MR you would end up getting like ~15k if not less if you want this syandana faster. 340/15 = ~22 raw days, that's nearly a month... Only way to "bypass" this is with weekly challenge reward but.. you are not guaranteed to use full amount of that reward as for me i got that reward when i was right about to rank up, therefore i won't count that as there is no need in such precision.

You know how much plat you can farm in 3 weeks ? Enough to buy every single syandana that is obtainable using plat.

OH and forgot about maxing standing again which is what 132k more ? That makes it a full month unless we actually count weekly reward that could somewhat make it back to 3 weeks, if that is not effort then anything that you can get in this game in less than a month is useless effortless piece of trash ? There is no other way around to get this item which explains why you have to work extra to get it. But doing "challenges" with which you achieve literally nothing to make it a viable item after you spent 1 month trying to get it seems quite reasonable :-) (that reasonable part was sarcasm, if you didn't get it).

Laziness or not but my goal for this topic was to make something more straight forward and less annoying to use.

Spending nearly 1 month for 1 item and then nearly 1 hour a day to make 1 item usable ? Imo only blatant fools will see that reasonable. I don't see who else would like that.

15 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

You're not trying to show it, just using it to dismiss anyone else's opinion.

Where did i try to dismiss someone's opinion using kda ? You two were trying to tell me how much effort you put and all that jazz. Unless you have some kind of issues, no matter how bad you are if you put enough actual effort you will get better. And kda that you get directly from killing other players aka being better than them is exactly how you determine abilities of a player aka how much effort someone put to improve. If someone has terrible kda then he is not performing, no matter vs who he is playing. I'm not certain about this information but as i have noticed you play around the same rank as you are aka Typhoon in our case, which means those are players who have at least some kind of understanding about PVP in this game. And if that is true, difference between your "top players" and mine should be minuscule or none at all. You are trying to tell me i'm playing vs newbs, who do you think you are vs those players who got mentioned here ? You are newb for them. They are literally farming you and other weaker players.

I'm not saying i'm literally destroying every player, i have met players who i can barely kill as it's fairly easy to abuse health globes and top player won't die easily.

15 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

Not really, MR is just a number, for example, I'm sure that the MR23 "top player" (as you called him) from one of your previous posts wouldn't stand a chance against a player like X (MR2). I'd bet you wouldn't stand a chance against him either if both of you got in the same match.
Also KD ratio can be farmed by staying in RC regardless of becoming skillful enough to fight against good players; leaving a lobby as soon as a good player joins the lobby, etc. so it doesn't serve as a skill measure, let alone to dismiss

That is more than obvious and i perfectly understand that. Top player? seriously ? Are you trying to intentionally pretend dumb or it's me who is typing responses at ~4am. How can you not distinguish sarcasm from serious words ?

I have no clue where you can farm that and no interest but as Heckzu said, he is playing vs those players who have 9+ kda. So who do you think they are farming ?

That liolio player has 3.1k hours in game, so i doubt he is someone who just lvled up everything on Draco and aims with his leg. He may have tried something i have no clue but not only his so "farmed" kda showed how terrible he was but actual gameplay as well. 

My logic may have flaws in terms of raw perfect stats as you stated there are ways to farm it, but in perfect scenario that kda displays decent information of player abilities.

In any case this has nothing to do with current topic request and only reason why i am talking about this is because you kept mentioning "effort" and "dedication" which i can not see neither in 2-4 game a day nor someone who just chills.

Edited by Logooooooooo
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8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

That's exactly where we have issue, challenges are so useless and pretty much take no effort to complete that just having them is questionable, but well it can boost up standing gain quite significantly so i guess that's a bonus, but connecting this kind of "challenge" with 1 cosmetic item to be viable in my opinion doesn't make any sense. I didn't start playing Warframe from the beginning but i can assume this kind of bonus was added so players get conclave rewards faster, and not even directly faster, just spend less time in mode that only little fraction of players enjoy. (Devs probably understood that.)

Originally Conclave had zero rewards. Then Conclave 2.0 rolled and we got conclave mods (not stances), some conclave augments and sigils (which actually boosted standing, but could only be equipped in conclave). No skins, no syadanna, nothing. Then DE added weapon skins and the syadanna, originally we didn't have weekly mission, just the daily challenges, which mean igniting the syadanna required all 6 daily challenges (no Lunaro existed). Then they added the weekly which keeps 3 flames lit. Right now the Syadanna is on a sweet spot. For permanent zero-upkeep cosmetic we have the weapon skins and armor (which many got trough grinding or making farming groups instead of playing actual conclave just to get them and then never return to the game, which is what the syadanna avoids by having upkeep)

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

Have you tried to actually calculate how much time it actually takes to get this "effortless" syandana ? 100k syandana alone, 240k Typhoon, assuming you are not max MR you would end up getting like ~15k if not less if you want this syandana faster. 340/15 = ~22 raw days, that's nearly a month... Only way to "bypass" this is with weekly challenge reward but.. you are not guaranteed to use full amount of that reward as for me i got that reward when i was right about to rank up, therefore i won't count that as there is no need in such precision.

I max Conclave standing every week. I spend it all on Relic packs (Cause I have all the cosmetics I want) and by the time I complete the weekly I have about 40-60k standing, so the weekly push me near to full, add a couple of daily matches for Fun and I'm maxed every single week. DE actually tweaked the Conclave reward, it now only gives the standing when you open the mail, and it no longer opens up automatically. I hope if they make weekly synd missions (perhaps with the kinpin dojo thing?) they remember that part if we are going to get standing via inbox.

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

You know how much plat you can farm in 3 weeks ? Enough to buy every single syandana that is obtainable using plat.

But few plat syadannas look as gorgeous as Celestia, so it's totally worth it :3

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:


OH and forgot about maxing standing again which is what 132k more ? That makes it a full month unless we actually count weekly reward that could somewhat make it back to 3 weeks, if that is not effort then anything that you can get in this game in less than a month is useless effortless piece of trash ? There is no other way around to get this item which explains why you have to work extra to get it. But doing "challenges" with which you achieve literally nothing to make it a viable item after you spent 1 month trying to get it seems quite reasonable :-) (that reasonable part was sarcasm, if you didn't get it).

The challenges are fine, and make sense, since Teshin's whole motive for Conclave is to train us (ie: stop being fatarses who sit on crates to spam abilities and instead learn to fight like real space ninjas). Sure, there are easy challenges (complete X matches, get 1 kill with X weapon) but there are some rather difficult challenges too.

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

Laziness or not but my goal for this topic was to make something more straight forward and less annoying to use.

You just need to do 4 challenges a day or 1+weekly. It can be done in 20-30min depending which challenges are active.

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

Spending nearly 1 month for 1 item and then nearly 1 hour a day to make 1 item usable ? Imo only blatant fools will see that reasonable. I don't see who else would like that.

Okay, let's better make it work like other syndicate syadannas, no flames at mission start, you get one flame per player kill, make it reset every mission :3

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

I'm not saying i'm literally destroying every player, i have met players who i can barely kill as it's fairly easy to abuse health globes and top player won't die easily.

And that's good. The whole point of COnclave is to get better at the game, if you face more experienced/skillful players you get better and learn to counter them.

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

How can you not distinguish sarcasm from serious words ?

It happens all the time, I always consider painting sarcasm, jokes or exagerations on rainbow colors, but I always forget to do so.

8 hours ago, Logooooooooo said:

In any case this has nothing to do with current topic request and only reason why i am talking about this is because you kept mentioning "effort" and "dedication" which i can not see neither in 2-4 game a day nor someone who just chills.

For inexperienced players, challenges are that, for veteran players they just come naturally because we are used to whatever they ask from us.

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  • 3 months later...

there should be option for this lovely syndana were as you the player after buying it the first time to complete the syndana you must gain 190.000 standing to activit it for ever but theres a catch you must get 200 head shots as it is the only way to gain points and walk away proud with this syndana 

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