Ash Revisit 33 1/3

[Nazrethim]

Why? Because why not?

 

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

-During Aimglide or Wall Latch, Ash marks any enemy he aims at.

-Mark increases Finisher and Bleed damage by 50% and highlights enemies on the map. (Affected by Power Strenght)

-Mark lasts 10s (affected by Duration)

-Costs no energy.

-1 mark per enemy limit.

-Mark Range: 50m

Shuriken:

Mostly the same, changes are:

-Shuriken cost is 15 energy

-Shuriken fly in a straight line if no enemy is marked. They track marked enemies.

-Hold function: Ash throws up to 5 Shuriken to random marked enemies. Costs 10 additional energy.

Smoke Screen:

Mostly unchanged, change is:

-Now leaves a lingering cloud for 10s. Ash can regain it's 8s invisibility by entering the cloud. Smoke Shadow affects the cloud for allies to hide/get a buff.

Teleport;

-Ash teleports to the aimed location/unit.

-Stagger enemies in 2m radius, opening for Finisher attack.

-Hold function: Ash initiates a killing spree, teleporting and performing Finisher attack on all marked enemies. Cost is 15 per attack, if energy runs out the spree is canceled.

Blade Storm

Stance Ultimate.

Stance focuses on kicks, stabs with wristblades and powerful finishers.

Blind Rampage, Basic combo (EEE): does nothing special, just attacks.

Blade Assault, Pause Combo (EEpauseEE): 3rd attack is a sweep with wristblades to inflict bleed on nearby enemies, 4th attack opens an enemy (or group if they are clustered in a single spot) to Finisher attack.

Smoke Dash, RMB Combo (EERMB+EE): 3rd attack makes Ash lunge forward 5m in a puff of smoke, piercing trough all enemies in line. 4th Attack consist of 5 forward stabbs, each one moving Ash 0.5m forward.

Finisher Attacks use Blade Storm's current Finishers.

Ground and Slide attack are shared with Claw weapons.

 

Other Blade Storm perks:

-Roll and Backspring are replaced by instant dashes that leave a trail of smoke (similar to Manics)

-Costs 100 energy to cast. Channeled mode. Doesn't drain energy while active, but player is limited only to Blade Storm stance.

-Finisher Attacks cause smoke copies of Ash to do a single finisher on nearby enemies.

-Affected by: Pure damage mods, Physical damage mods. Combo counter mods. Channeling mods.

-Not affected by: Shadow Debt (sans Body Count) mods, Proc mods (like Berserker, Dispatch overdrive)

 

Conclave Changes:

Passive:

-Mark has 15m range and 25m fall-off.

-Lasts 4s but can be refreshed if Ash keeps aiming.

-Doesn't increase any damage, but marks enemies on the map.

Shuriken:

-Hold function: Tracks marked targets as long as they have the mark.

Smoke Screen:

-No change from current version.

Teleport:

-Teleports to location but doesn't open for finishers.

-Hold function: Ash teleports doing one melee attack that deals 50% increased damage to each marked target.

Blade Storm:

-Ash cannot pick energy while active, but normal power rate and relentless assault still work.

-Pause combo doesn't open to finishers.

 

Special note:

Hey @(PS4)GR13V4NC3another for the Conglomerated, though this is more focused on the Passive, the rest are things already suggested. :3

 

[Xekrin]

Love it.  They threw us in the deep end with a special mechanic, it would be great if his other abilities worked within that aspect now.  Especially shurikens.

I think DE worked hard on the cutscene animations and they are pretty cool to see when someone first gets Ash, but I think they are focusing efforts on keeping them way too much.

At some point they just gotta let their baby grow up and move on.

[peterc3]

So just give Ash an exalted weapon? Why?

[Skaleek]

I like it over what we have right now. Bladestorm feels redundant over fatal tp.

[Nazrethim]

47 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Love it.  They threw us in the deep end with a special mechanic, it would be great if his other abilities worked within that aspect now.  Especially shurikens.

I think DE worked hard on the cutscene animations and they are pretty cool to see when someone first gets Ash, but I think they are focusing efforts on keeping them way too much.

At some point they just gotta let their baby grow up and move on.

I have another idea, an option in 'Gameplay' called "Cinematic Finishers". Essentially gives all melee finishers (including exalted weapons) the camera angles of blade storm, turn it on and you get old bladestorm, turn it off and people who get sick of the camera can have a good time.

38 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

So just give Ash an exalted weapon? Why?

A couple of reasons:

-It fixes all issues asociated with Blade Storm (interactivity, near useless sh*t in conclave, redundant with fatal teleport present, etc)

-This suggestion is more interesting in the sense that it requires proper combo use, unlike EB, Hysteria who rely on mindless Espam. This suggestion makes Combos matter.

-Ash was the First warframe with his own built-in weapons, so if Excalibur can summon an energy blade out of his a** it stands to reason that Ash should be able to use the blades he has.

[Xekrin]

I kind of wish they would just give up on the 'bladestorm' brand name and rename it something more appropriate.  No iteration of the current ability, pre or post rework has ever been a "storm" of blades.  

When I first saw the ability name as a new player, I had envisioned this whole thing of Ash striking so many times so quickly against so many enemies that you literally saw nothing but a flurry of blades raining down upon the enemy.

I realize my actual imagining of the ability would be pretty insane, but as it stands now, Bladestorm is nothing more than teleporting to a few (or bunch, sure) enemies, usually silently, leaving no trace of the attack.

I dunno what kinds of storms they have in good ole Canadia, but Storms I've seen are definitely not silent.

[Nazrethim]

22 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I kind of wish they would just give up on the 'bladestorm' brand name and rename it something more appropriate.  No iteration of the current ability, pre or post rework has ever been a "storm" of blades.  

When I first saw the ability name as a new player, I had envisioned this whole thing of Ash striking so many times so quickly against so many enemies that you literally saw nothing but a flurry of blades raining down upon the enemy.

I realize my actual imagining of the ability would be pretty insane, but as it stands now, Bladestorm is nothing more than teleporting to a few (or bunch, sure) enemies, usually silently, leaving no trace of the attack.

I dunno what kinds of storms they have in good ole Canadia, but Storms I've seen are definitely not silent.

Honestly, when I started, I thought it was something like W3 Blademaster's Blade Storm. While it's true it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and it never did, the name "Blade Storm" could be used as the name of the Stance.

[peterc3]

45 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I have another idea, an option in 'Gameplay' called "Cinematic Finishers". Essentially gives all melee finishers (including exalted weapons) the camera angles of blade storm, turn it on and you get old bladestorm, turn it off and people who get sick of the camera can have a good time.

A couple of reasons:

-It fixes all issues asociated with Blade Storm (interactivity, near useless sh*t in conclave, redundant with fatal teleport present, etc)

-This suggestion is more interesting in the sense that it requires proper combo use, unlike EB, Hysteria who rely on mindless Espam. This suggestion makes Combos matter.

-Ash was the First warframe with his own built-in weapons, so if Excalibur can summon an energy blade out of his a** it stands to reason that Ash should be able to use the blades he has.

What's the point of that option when it would take the same amount of time either way?

Making combos matter doesn't make yet another exalted weapon interesting. Claws are kind of Valkyr's thing, and there's nothing about the combos suggested that holding RMB and spamming E wouldn't be what you do 24/7.

[------Solo------]

Would be interesting to have an exalted weapon on ash, not that i much care for any changes on him. Why though you suggested Blade Storm to not drain energy while active. It makes all the other channeled abilities look dumb in front of it. 

edit:People will still spam E, even if there are combos. 

If the skill got lots of pros with 0 cons to it and as long as all the melee weapons got this press E and that's it attitude to them, having a channeled ability cost 0 energy while active even if you are locked into a stance (Practically EB is the same, same as Hysteria, but w/e) people still just spam E. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by PrimeDCookieMonstah

[Nazrethim]

50 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

What's the point of that option when it would take the same amount of time either way?

If you paid attention to the "other perks", Finisher attacks with this Blade Storm would cause mini-old bladestorms, you finish an enemy, 3 to 6 clones show up to finish nearby foes too. Combo that with teleport and you have a manual version old Blade Storm with it's crowd clear potential.

50 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Making combos matter doesn't make yet another exalted weapon interesting. Claws are kind of Valkyr's thing, and there's nothing about the combos suggested that holding RMB and spamming E wouldn't be what you do 24/7.

Only the Pause combo opens to finishers, so mindlessly spamming E, like what happens with Exalted Spam, is actually worse than using combos. The RMB combo is just a gap closer.

44 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:

Would be interesting to have an exalted weapon on ash, not that i much care for any changes on him. Why though you suggested Blade Storm to not drain energy while active. It makes all the other channeled abilities look dumb in front of it. 

Because it doesn't give all piercing waves, autoblock or invulnerability. It also costs 100 energy to cast. Run into a nullifier bubble? wasted energy. This one also doesn't allow you to turn off your brain like Hysteria or Exalted Blade do. This one is about finesse and synergy, not brute force. Also, it's a pure melee mode, if you want to swap back to guns, be ready to pay 100 energy the next time you want to go into blade storm mode.

44 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:

edit:People will still spam E, even if there are combos. 

Yes, but the basic Espam combo of this particular stance would be ridiculously weak compared to the Pause combo, and RMB combo would just work to cover distance or hit a few enemies in a line. The mass murder potential comes from Finishers, which mean combo with Teleport or do the Pause combo.

44 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:

If the skill got lots of pros with 0 cons to it and as long as all the melee weapons got this press E and that's it attitude to them, having a channeled ability cost 0 energy while active even if you are locked into a stance (Practically EB is the same, same as Hysteria, but w/e) people still just spam E. 

EB gives Autoblock, blind on slide (costs energy), waves that pierce trough everything. Hysteria gives invulnerability. Both can be canceled freely to stop the drain. Ash Blade Storm would instead cost energy per cast and you are still as vulnerable as if you have equiped your regular melee.

The idea behind this stance isn't brute force by draining energy. It should be different to other Stance Ultimates.

[Somethinglurks]

I love this idea.  I'm still upset that the Ash rework wasn't much of a rework.

[(PSN)LastDoomKnight]

The ash rework was really disappointing. They didn't change what was really wrong with him, interaction. This rework would be so awesome in game, but won't happen probably lol.

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, Somethinglurks said:

I love this idea.  I'm still upset that the Ash rework wasn't much of a rework.

Because it wasn't, it was a "revisit", considering DE is labeling the coming limbo change as "rework" it¡s obvious not even they buy it.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)LastDoomKnight said:

The ash rework was really disappointing. They didn't change what was really wrong with him, interaction. This rework would be so awesome in game, but won't happen probably lol.

"You are not defeated until you accept defeat"

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I like most of these suggested changes, but i've never been a fan of giving Ash an Exalted Weapon. At least not in the sense of the currently existing exalted weapons that, while powerful, fall short of interesting. If they can take the idea and develop it more before implementing it then it could be ok. 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Honestly, I still like my version of SS and Teleport better. Your BS is great, though. My only issue with your BS is that is conflicts with my version of Teleport (only slightly), it makes the combo have a redundant style of smoke dash which makes using smoke dash while in BS kinda pointless because you can do it for free while it's active... but it is the perfect compliment to the Conglomerated Rework.

Other than that, our Shuriken concepts are the only things in question. What I mean is, I always thought that Ash needs a ranged move that he can use accurately (because he's the damn ninja of all ninjas, he don't miss! Does Storm Shadow ever miss... no) but also in a spammy crowd killing capacity, if needed. So, to me, the animation requires changing (because it's a slow [in many ways], single frisbee throw style), which is why I chose the Hikou mechanic. That throwing animation is more appropriate/not to mention realistic/practical in high speed situations/environments (you're not going/going to be able to stop/slow down and get into frisbee throwing stance all the time). Ash should be able to throw those stars as fast as you can press the button. I also think that it's augment should just be an innate attribute of the ability and a new augment created, it just makes more sense because that was what the stars were used for (primarily) in RL... they were a quick way to stun/stagger a pursuing enemy and they were designed to puncture/impact, not slash. Ninjas would drop those foot barbs behind them and if that didn't stop a pursuer, they'd hit'em in the foot/leg/shoulder with a shuriken. 

I almost forgot. I love the see though walls thing. That should be added to his passive list.

Edited February 24, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Honestly, I still like my version of SS and Teleport better. Your BS is great, though. My only issue with your BS is that is conflicts with my version of Teleport (only slightly), it makes the combo have a redundant style of smoke dash which makes using smoke dash while in BS kinda pointless because you can do it for free while it's active... but it is the perfect compliment to the Conglomerated Rework.

Smoke Dash here is just a gap closing combo for fast maneuvering, that's why it propels Ash trough lines of enemies, it doesn't open to finisher attacks. The name is a friendly homage to your idea :3

1 hour ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Other than that, our Shuriken concepts are the only things in question. What I mean is, I always thought that Ash needs a ranged move that he can use accurately (because he's the damn ninja of all ninjas, he don't miss! Does Storm Shadow ever miss... no) but also in a spammy crowd killing capacity, if needed. So, to me, the animation requires changing (because it's a slow [in many ways], single frisbee throw style), which is why I chose the Hikou mechanic. That throwing animation is more appropriate/not to mention realistic/practical in high speed situations/environments (you're not going/going to be able to stop/slow down and get into frisbee throwing stance all the time). Ash should be able to throw those stars as fast as you can press the button. I also think that it's augment should just be an innate attribute of the ability and a new augment created, it just makes more sense because that was what the stars were used for (primarily) in RL... they were a quick way to stun/stagger a pursuing enemy and they were designed to puncture/impact, not slash. Ninjas would drop those foot barbs behind them and if that didn't stop a pursuer, they'd hit'em in the foot/leg/shoulder with a shuriken. 

Well, the ability could get a cast animation like in this video (the charater throws darts, but it would be pretty much the same)

 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

"Smoke Dash here is just a gap closing combo for fast maneuvering, that's why it propels Ash trough lines of enemies, it doesn't open to finisher attacks. The name is a friendly homage to your idea :3"

- I got that and I'm truly flattered ;D

 

I watched the video and I see what you are saying, but exactly as the video shows, the marking mechanic is really only good for situations where you can take advantage of the time, but with how this game moves, you rarely get those chances. I think that that could be a cool secondary (hold) mechanic of Shuriken but the primary function should be about an accurate, cheap, powerful and rapid casting ability.

As far as your BS, as I said before, I like it, but I think BS should not have the melee only restriction anymore but rather any melee strikes are done with the wristblades (so you can still cycle weapons but whenever you come to melee while BS is active, it will only be the wristblades). This works better with my version of teleport (Smoke Dash/Dash Strike) because it still allows you to utilize both forms and all weapons/skills while gaining the enhancements of BS (faster attack/movement speed, greater dodge chance and (possibly) a reduction to casting costs of all other abilities). So you could activate BS, use your combos and my Dashes, fling some shurikens, shoot all your weapons and doing a ton of damage all the while moving at great speed, avoiding attacks and taking out loads of enemies in a fun and engaging manner... and as a bonus, it completely compliments Ash's theme. No clones, though (I think it would make the ability way OP)

My other BS idea is similar (because it still gives Ash more attack/movement speed, higher dodge chance and (possibly) a reduction to casting costs of all other abilities while still enabling him to use his entire kit and caboodle) except it utilizes the clones but in a different way. When BS is active, any of Ash's attacks (primary, secondary, melee or power) that strike an enemy will summon a clone to assist in the fight. If the enemy dies quickly, the clone will follow Ash but persist for only 5 seconds afterward so it has a chance to re-engage in the battle. If no enemy appears or becomes within range in that time, the clone will disappear. A maximum of 3 (maybe 4) clones can be active at one time and once all clones are in play, every subsequent strike that Ash connects with an enemy will maintain the presence of the clones. After 5 seconds of not fighting, the clones will start disappearing (one by one, 5 seconds at a time). So the point here would be to use your whole kit/all weapons to engage as many enemies as possible and keep your clones out... and again, his melee would be restricted to only his wristblades but all weapons/skills are usable while BS is active. I just can't decide if it should be duration based (capped energy cost) or a stance/toggle drain.

Between my ideas and your's, I think we do good!

Just a recap:

- A combo of our Shuriken ideas (as described above).

- My Smoke Screen (cause its just like your's but in more detail. Refer to Conglomerated Rework for details).

- My Teleport ideas, Smoke Dash/Dash Strike (I know the latter name is not the best. Refer to Conglomerated Rework for details).

- A combo of our BS ideas (as described above).

... and we have a complete rework, a pretty good one, too!

Edited February 25, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3