3200 Armor and was one timed by a level 65 napalm exi

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Couldn't tell it was a napalm during the mayhem that was the sortie, let alone a exi . Weak points will be just awful DE. Lets not go down that road. Thank you

Edited February 26, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[kyori]

Should be ok else many will complain game too easy.

[IggySnow]

couldn't agree more. absolutely NO ONE likes invincible enemies. if they get implemented it just proves DE doesn't play their own game.

[Aurea_Hiigara]

2 minutes ago, kyori said:

Should be ok else many will complain game too easy.

And instead many will say it's become impossible and quit.

[Xgomme]

That's not related, their damage scalling is garbage but that's not related to those future weakpoints.

 

Imo they should finally fix the damage/hp scalling in the game, but the weakpoint for eximus is a nice idea to me

[[DE]Momaw]

The general issue with Warframe is that players are massively overpowered.

In order to avoid being killed in an instant, before they can even fight back,  enemies have to be very very durable.  The way the game works, that translates to high levels. And their damage increases with level.   Basically:   In order to not be one shotted by us, they start to become capable of inflicting one shot kills on us, because Warframes are the glassiest glass hammers that ever delicately hammered, with firepower that exceeds our survivability easily 10 to 1. Thus leading to Warframe's high level meta, which is,  "CC or Die".  Or be invulnerable.  You cannot sustain a fair fight against something like a level 90 bombard eximus. So we must fight unfair.

Eximus enemies with weak points are a roundabout solution aimed at the problem of player firepower.  By preventing the eximus enemy from dying to sheer raw DPS, it opens the possibility of making them interesting and balanced in other ways.  Personally I think this approach is doomed to being frustrating and unpopular, and is just dancing around the core problem which is player firepower being too high.  But you can't blame DE for trying this, when any attempt to rebalance the game numerically is met with massive confused threads about "buff don't nerf plox".  Players don't WANT a numerically balanced game for whatever reason.  So....   eximus enemies that are invulnerable till you tickle their weak points.

[ashrah]

i was once been one shoted with ice chroma....with max power...arcane grace and arcane guardian set...especially vs grineers.. scorpions.balista napalm bombard.. eximus doing insane dmg....that why ppl camp

[(PSN)Silverback73]

17 minutes ago, Momaw said:

The general issue with Warframe is that players are massively overpowered.

In order to avoid being killed in an instant, before they can even fight back,  enemies have to be very very durable.  The way the game works, that translates to high levels. And their damage increases with level.   Basically:   In order to not be one shotted by us, they start to become capable of inflicting one shot kills on us, because Warframes are the glassiest glass hammers that ever delicately hammered, with firepower that exceeds our survivability easily 10 to 1. Thus leading to Warframe's high level meta, which is,  "CC or Die".  Or be invulnerable.  You cannot sustain a fair fight against something like a level 90 bombard eximus. So we must fight unfair.

Eximus enemies with weak points are a roundabout solution aimed at the problem of player firepower.  By preventing the eximus enemy from dying to sheer raw DPS, it opens the possibility of making them interesting and balanced in other ways.  Personally I think this approach is doomed to being frustrating and unpopular, and is just dancing around the core problem which is player firepower being too high.  But you can't blame DE for trying this, when any attempt to rebalance the game numerically is met with massive confused threads about "buff don't nerf plox".  Players don't WANT a numerically balanced game for whatever reason.  So....   eximus enemies that are invulnerable till you tickle their weak points.

This^.  It's your basic "Power Fantasy" Conundrum.

1.  OP player gets a high off killing waves and waves of everything with style and flair.

2.  OP player gets bored and wants a "challenge".

3.  Developer responds by making enemies challenging.

4.  Uh oh, player's power fantasy got interrupted. Not happy.  "Keep me Invincible AND entertained and challenged!"

5.  Player blames inherent game mechanics that attracted him/her in the first place and/or blames developer (lack of) skill for not fulfilling #4.

6.  Developer sticks with what has worked since Space Invaders:

Arcade-style scaling.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it, too...

Edited February 26, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Urlan]

45 minutes ago, Momaw said:

The general issue with Warframe is that players are massively overpowered.

In order to avoid being killed in an instant, before they can even fight back,  enemies have to be very very durable.  The way the game works, that translates to high levels. And their damage increases with level.   Basically:   In order to not be one shotted by us, they start to become capable of inflicting one shot kills on us, because Warframes are the glassiest glass hammers that ever delicately hammered, with firepower that exceeds our survivability easily 10 to 1. Thus leading to Warframe's high level meta, which is,  "CC or Die".  Or be invulnerable.  You cannot sustain a fair fight against something like a level 90 bombard eximus. So we must fight unfair.

Eximus enemies with weak points are a roundabout solution aimed at the problem of player firepower.  By preventing the eximus enemy from dying to sheer raw DPS, it opens the possibility of making them interesting and balanced in other ways.  Personally I think this approach is doomed to being frustrating and unpopular, and is just dancing around the core problem which is player firepower being too high.  But you can't blame DE for trying this, when any attempt to rebalance the game numerically is met with massive confused threads about "buff don't nerf plox".  Players don't WANT a numerically balanced game for whatever reason.  So....   eximus enemies that are invulnerable till you tickle their weak points.

I would say its actually the opposite. What many seem to miss is that enemy scaling is the cause not result for why some see players being so strong compared to enemies; new weapons and mods to have functionality at least need to be able to kill enemies that have damage, durability, and numbers far exceeding that of players. The napalm here is a good example of that. Eximus with invulnerability to everything outside of weak-points are a bad band-aid style fix to such an issue as it doesn't address the fact that players are massively outgunned at the equivalent level of enemy. In the example given by DE for the invulnerability nodes, eximus infested were given as the example for the target for such a buff, and indeed pouring firepower into them is how one beats a hoard. Target priority is already a lesson players need to learn due to ancients or fail infested encounters; this like Disruptors getting resistance to abilities and area effect damage by 75% auras is to disrupt the killing potential of players that use stuff like the Simulor, Tonkor, or Penta among other launcher types or abilities as it was before.

The only way balance will end the mess of infinite scaling compared to players and thus requiring such gearing would be to remove enemy scaling as-is, and replace it with a mod system similar to ours. Thus, like players, the enemies would have a plateau of power they could not overcome. Area effect enemies in general will kill most players in one hit, as their scaling is beyond anything we can do with mods, essentially, they are not playing the same game. Toxin ancients once you hit around wave 40 outside of T4 or nightmare are another enemy example although most can kill a player outside of 90% damage reduction in a sec or two, likely the entire reason Trinity was given Blessing one might think.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Urlan

[LSG501]

I'm holding off judgement on the weakpoints until it's implemented but if they don't do anything about damage scaling to compensate for the extra 'effort' needed to kill the hardest enemies then I can see it's not going to go down well with a lot of players, especially on the eximus sorties...

[PakkiTheDog]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This^.  It's your basic "Power Fantasy" Conundrum.

1.  OP player gets a high off killing waves and waves of everything with style and flair.

2.  OP player gets bored and wants a "challenge".

3.  Developer responds by making enemies challenging.

4.  Uh oh, player's power fantasy got interrupted. Not happy.  "Keep me Invincible AND entertained and challenged!"

5.  Player blames inherent game mechanics that attracted him/her in the first place and/or blames developer (lack of) skill for not fulfilling #4.

6.  Developer sticks with what has worked since Space Invaders:

Arcade-style scaling.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it, too...

We want challenge that we can overcome not a mob of "bosses" in a mob of regular enemies that are already capable of taking you down easy. It's a lazy/fast solution that in the end will just cause more problems.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

25 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

We want challenge that we can overcome not a mob of "bosses" in a mob of regular enemies that are already capable of taking you down easy. It's a lazy/fast solution that in the end will just cause more problems.

See #5.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I want to out smart my enemies by anticipating their movements, not fight auto aimboting cheese with over powered weapon meta frame cheese. That comes down to who shoots first during a mess of powers and AOEs. We shouldn't need meta frames in a horde style shooter, just better scaling and better AI.  I've learned DE is vary simplistic with their updates, And my expectations are way to high sometimes.  But theses so called "weak points" could be huge problem. 

Edited February 26, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[ComCray]

I agree with that we need better enemy AI over scaling. But. What exactly DO we expect when saying "better AI"?

Just aiming for something that is not "dumb as bricks" doesn't really cut it too.

So, again, what would be better AI in relation to Warframe?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

21 minutes ago, ComCray said:

I agree with that we need better enemy AI over scaling. But. What exactly DO we expect when saying "better AI"?

Just aiming for something that is not "dumb as bricks" doesn't really cut it too.

So, again, what would be better AI in relation to Warframe?

I've seen a few ideas honestly. But the conversation needs to start with..

Instead of weak points on eximus units we should........?

[Cat__Nap]

Enemies already can target us way faster than we can target them - there's no hesitation, no "aiming" on their part. As soon as you poke your head out, you get shot. This is part of the problem, when you have enemies that can oneshot most frames, and a few other enemies that can oneshot even the tankiest frames (granted, rockets are somewhat easy to dodge a lot of the time, but a few other attacks from heavy-hitting enemies aren't...and of course, at level 100, everything hits hard).

Adding invulnerability to these hardest-hitting enemies would be a major mistake, and high level infestation missions would become too tedious for most players to bother with. A room full of 40 infested that are all pretty much invulnerable because of the 4 invulnerable Ancient Healer Eximi and the 2 Parasitic Eximi? Yeah, screw that.

But they have already said they're re-thinking how to implement it, so hopefully we can count on not having completely invulnerable eximus units.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Napalms need some tuning. I hate that fiery projectile they shoot out. At super low levels like 25-30 they still manage to bite off shields just because of the AOE. At sortie level things the explosion radius can insta-kill weaker frames such as Ivara or Ember, leaving them no chance.

Edited March 19, 2017 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[ComCray]

27 minutes ago, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

Napalms need some tuning. I hate that fiery projectile they shoot out. At super low levels like 25-30 they still manage to bite off shields just because of the explosion radius when it lands. At sortie level things the explosion radius can insta-kill weaker frames such as Ivara or Ember, leaving them no chance.

..leaving Ember with no chance...? Hmmm..

Dear DE

We need more Napalm Grineer. No,really.. like, a LOT more..

Sincerely Everybody.

[SeaUrchins]

Personally I think it would be better to nerf frames in genetal than to buff certain enemies. It is just my opinion, but buffing enemies when we can still one-shot them or lock 50-100m areas is no increase in difficulty. At least in my case. I could be wrong though.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

I've seen a few ideas honestly. But the conversation needs to start with..

Instead of weak points on eximus units we should........?

I'd say still make "weak points" but replace "Invulnerability" with universal -25% to -50% damage reduction in non weak points.

So a weighted system by location is a decent compromise.

Also, reward spectacular weak-point kills with a chance at a unique "Eximus skill kill" drop that when you accumulate so many, you get a special shiny for your skill that changes every PA.

Psychologically, what I've done is positively reward skill  rather than negatively affect balance due to Warframe power, which is a cornerstone.

Edited February 26, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Zeclem]

make the ai have increased armor but lowered damage, to the point where you still have to take cover but dont get oneshotted and make aiming to enemy weakpoints(most commonly head) worth it.

[achromos]

4 hours ago, Momaw said:

The general issue with Warframe is that players are massively overpowered.

In order to avoid being killed in an instant, before they can even fight back,  enemies have to be very very durable.  The way the game works, that translates to high levels. And their damage increases with level.   Basically:   In order to not be one shotted by us, they start to become capable of inflicting one shot kills on us, because Warframes are the glassiest glass hammers that ever delicately hammered, with firepower that exceeds our survivability easily 10 to 1. Thus leading to Warframe's high level meta, which is,  "CC or Die".  Or be invulnerable.  You cannot sustain a fair fight against something like a level 90 bombard eximus. So we must fight unfair.

Eximus enemies with weak points are a roundabout solution aimed at the problem of player firepower.  By preventing the eximus enemy from dying to sheer raw DPS, it opens the possibility of making them interesting and balanced in other ways.  Personally I think this approach is doomed to being frustrating and unpopular, and is just dancing around the core problem which is player firepower being too high.  But you can't blame DE for trying this, when any attempt to rebalance the game numerically is met with massive confused threads about "buff don't nerf plox".  Players don't WANT a numerically balanced game for whatever reason.  So....   eximus enemies that are invulnerable till you tickle their weak points.

This whole weakpoint business has made me consider switching to Mirage and pulling out a Synoid Simulor.  Let's compare results and enjoyment vs someone who wants to use a bow.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Also enemies already have a weak point...it's called the head. We don't need more heads

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Also enemies already have a weak point...it's called the head. We don't need more heads

my gf says i dont need more heads too

[PakkiTheDog]

New planet (solar system would be even better :O ) with different class of enemies, higher lvl and all that stuff.... even different objectives if i'm not asking too much.