DE, prove u listen to your player base/customers

[Vulpei]

For anyone supporting the eximus weakpoint idea, I sure hope you enjoy the thought of eximus nullifiers/ancients.  Now just imagine more than one spawning.

 

We having fun yet? 

[AlphaPHENIX]

Just now, Vulpei said:

For anyone supporting the eximus weakpoint idea, I sure hope you enjoy the thought of eximus nullifiers/ancients.  Now just imagine more than one spawning.

 

We having fun yet? 

I prefer the thought of having Red Veil's Death Squad jumping from easiest to deal with to hardest.

 

Who needs energy any way? 

[Kereler]

1 hour ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

We should ... go ride bicycles and play Pokemon Go?

I PLAY POKEMON EVERY DAY

 

 

I PLAY POKEMON GOOOOOO

[Rakosta_Kai]

I'm actually fine with weak points provided it's balanced, transparent, and codex does what it should have done to begin with and conveys this information intelligently.

Most players don't even realize regular mobs have weakpoints, that aren't just the head, now because it's information that has to be shared from player to player to be discovered.

 

I am also entirely cool with everything @Momaw posted provided that every weapon can be modified to hit the top end of base efficacy through crafting/modding as it reigns in the effect of incomparables and puts everything into apples vs apples for comparison's sake.

 

Absent all of that, they could just add difficulty sliders and adjust loot tables for more difficult missions accordingly.

Likewise, they could snatch a page from the MMO handbook and create weekly rewards to incent vets to join new and low level players in missions in the star chart as some of those missions are hurdles for those players because groups go to them infrequently. 

[Jackviator]

Oh is this one of those "if you could design a hotfix" things but with a different title? Aight.

1: Fix Snipers. Innate punch-through on all of them, remove the scope sway, get rid of the stupid hipfire accuracy debuff so people can deal with enemies that get too close.

2: On a related note, get rid of band-aid mods. Body Count and Harkonar Scope should just be the base combo reset timers for Melee and Snipers. Toss Depleted Reload out an airlock and just reduce the Vectis P's clip to 1 like they should have done in the first place, etc etc.

3: Actualy UNIVERSAL vacuum. All Warframes, innate passive, 12m. It really is that simple. Scrap Mag's passive in favor of something else (maybe faster shield recharge speed?) and give Chesa Kubrows a new function. That way people can use whatever companion they want without having the looting feel tedious AF from a gameplay standpoint.

4: Get rid of Serration, Hornet Strike, etc. Make it so that the damage of weapons scales with what rank it's at. After that, make it so that Multishot affects how many rounds are used per shot, so that people don't feel like multishot mods are a mandatory mod at all times, considering it might not be a good idea on guns such as the Twin Grakatas.

5: Bring back the old Archwing momentum. I'm sick of bumping into walls.

6: Balance weapons as a whole. Balance older weapons to be actually useful, for example. There are too many cool concepts in the older guns for them to be useless in this new system. (Like seriosuly look at the Buzlok, or the Miter. How interesting/ cool is that from a gameplay standpoint? Answer: VERY. Too bad they suck hard). Along with that, balance the new stuff to be less utterly power-creepish. Nerf what needs to be nerfed.

7: Balance enemies. Cap their level to maybe 65-70ish, maybe 75 at most. Cap enemy armor scaling to reduce damage by 50% when they hit the cap. Design new weapons around this tier of difficulty; no more one-shotting bombards, but no more bombards one-shotting you, either.

I could go on for a while, but I'm not sure if there's a text limit on posts... I'll just stop here  

Edited February 26, 2017 by Jackviator

[Kuestenjung]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Check the last (?) devstream, Rebecca spent several minutes trying to shoot the weakpoint on an Eximi Infested Runner. With a shotgun. And no other enemies around to distract her.

And she is still defending it.

[(PSN)WarHatePrejudice]

14 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Oh is this one of those "if you could design a hotfix" things but with a different title? Aight.

1: Fix Snipers. Innate punch-through on all of them, remove the scope sway, get rid of the stupid hipfire accuracy debuff so people can deal with enemies that get too close.

2: On a related note, get rid of band-aid mods. Body Count and Blood Rush should just be the base combo reset timers for Melee and Snipers. Toss Depleted Reload out an airlock and just reduce the Vectis P's clip to 1 like they should have done in the first place, etc etc.

3: Actualy UNIVERSAL vacuum. All Warframes, innate passive, 12m. It really is that simple. Scrap Mag's passive in favor of something else (maybe faster shield recharge speed?) and give Chesa Kubrows a new function. That way people can use whatever companion they want without having the looting feel tedious AF from a gameplay standpoint.

4: Get rid of Serration, Hornet Strike, etc. Make it so that the damage of weapons scales with what rank it's at. After that, make it so that Multishot affects how many rounds are used per shot, so that people don't feel like multishot mods are a mandatory mod at all times, considering it might not be a good idea on guns such as the Twin Grakatas.

5: Bring back the old Archwing momentum. I'm sick of bumping into walls.

6: Balance weapons as a whole. Balance older weapons to be actually useful, for example. There are too many cool concepts in the older guns for them to be useless in this new system. (Like seriosuly look at the Buzlok, or the Miter. How interesting/ cool is that from a gameplay standpoint? Answer: VERY. Too bad they sucks hard). Along with that, balance the new stuff to be less utterly power-creepish. Nerf what needs to be nerfed.

7: Balance enemies. Cap their level to maybe 65-70iah, maybe 75 at most. Cap enemy armor scaling to reduce damage by 50% when they hit the cap. Design new weapons around this tier of difficulty; no more one-shotting bombards, but no more bombards one-shotting you, either.

I could go on for a while, but I'm not sure if there's a text limit on posts... I'll just stop here  

Is thee, thelegend27? 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

17 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Oh is this one of those "if you could design a hotfix" things but with a different title? Aight.

1: Fix Snipers. Innate punch-through on all of them, remove the scope sway, get rid of the stupid hipfire accuracy debuff so people can deal with enemies that get too close.

2: On a related note, get rid of band-aid mods. Body Count and Blood Rush should just be the base combo reset timers for Melee and Snipers. Toss Depleted Reload out an airlock and just reduce the Vectis P's clip to 1 like they should have done in the first place, etc etc.

3: Actualy UNIVERSAL vacuum. All Warframes, innate passive, 12m. It really is that simple. Scrap Mag's passive in favor of something else (maybe faster shield recharge speed?) and give Chesa Kubrows a new function. That way people can use whatever companion they want without having the looting feel tedious AF from a gameplay standpoint.

4: Get rid of Serration, Hornet Strike, etc. Make it so that the damage of weapons scales with what rank it's at. After that, make it so that Multishot affects how many rounds are used per shot, so that people don't feel like multishot mods are a mandatory mod at all times, considering it might not be a good idea on guns such as the Twin Grakatas.

5: Bring back the old Archwing momentum. I'm sick of bumping into walls.

6: Balance weapons as a whole. Balance older weapons to be actually useful, for example. There are too many cool concepts in the older guns for them to be useless in this new system. (Like seriosuly look at the Buzlok, or the Miter. How interesting/ cool is that from a gameplay standpoint? Answer: VERY. Too bad they sucks hard). Along with that, balance the new stuff to be less utterly power-creepish. Nerf what needs to be nerfed.

7: Balance enemies. Cap their level to maybe 65-70iah, maybe 75 at most. Cap enemy armor scaling to reduce damage by 50% when they hit the cap. Design new weapons around this tier of difficulty; no more one-shotting bombards, but no more bombards one-shotting you, either.

I could go on for a while, but I'm not sure if there's a text limit on posts... I'll just stop here  

This 

[TennoPain]

So sad this is even a thing so much to do and they focus on this im so sad its a sad sad sad thing

[Zeclem]

@Jackviatori agree with all of them except "mandatory/bandaid mods" part. you simply cant remove mandatory parts of builds in games, that just doesnt happen. and why is it wrong to have mandatory mods in the first place? you remove those mandatory mods and bam, they will be replaced by other mandatory mods. i can guarantee it will happen %100.

how is bloodrush/bodycount mods in any shape or form is bandaid? and how would giving them to every single melee without building around them at all isnt powercreepy as hell and back? people of this forum just love this "bandaid" phrase so damn much that it has 0 meaning at this point. one of the prime examples to this is covert lethality. people call this a bandaid mod, but its simply a great choice giving a use to daggers. it makes them work really good for stealth gameplay, and considering how its a dagger, (which makes no damn sense to compare with a huge greatsword in actual combat realistically) just HAS to be as good as that said greatsword in non stealth combat or whatever buff given to daggers is just "bandaid". its not. it makes daggers the best weapon for stealth gameplay, which is how daggers should be used. and since stealth gameplay is kinda sucky in this game they also work well with certain combos before anybody pulls that up.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Zeclem

[(PSN)WarHatePrejudice]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

@Jackviatori agree with all of them except "mandatory/bandaid mods" part. you simply cant remove mandatory parts of builds in games, that just doesnt happen. and why is it wrong to have mandatory mods in the first place? you remove those mandatory mods and bam, they will be replaced by other mandatory mods. i can guarantee it will happen %100.

how is bloodrush/bodycount mods in any shape or form is bandaid? and how would giving them to every single melee without building around them at all isnt powercreepy as hell and back? people of this forum just love this "bandaid" phrase so damn much that it has 0 meaning at this point. one of the prime examples to this is covert lethality. people call this a bandaid mod, but its simply a great choice giving a use to daggers. it makes them work really good for stealth gameplay, and considering how its a dagger, (which makes no damn sense to compare with a huge greatsword in actual combat realistically) just HAS to be as good as that said greatsword in non stealth combat or whatever buff given to daggers is just "bandaid". its not. it makes daggers the best weapon for stealth gameplay, which is how daggers should be used. and since stealth gameplay is kinda sucky in this game they also work well with certain combos before anybody pulls that up.

Whole different view.

Like a great man once said.

"Truth is just a matter of perspective."

Now I don't know which side to pick.

[Iceheart125]

I also suggest an overall scaling balance, if they want it to be less zerg hoard meets dynasty warriors and more like a shooter, great. If they want it to be 4v20-40 constantly, great, but either way, the armor scaling needs to get better.

We shouldn't have any base enemy have 99.92% damage reduction, ever. Make grineer have breakable armor, 90% reduction till it shatters, corpus shields link to form a nullified style bubble that provides defence bonuses (without the nullification!)

I just want to be able to have a chance without cheese tactics, man. 

[Jackviator]

20 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

bloodrush

Meant to say Body Count and Harkonar Scope. I'm just used to grouping those two mods together I guess :P

[Zeclem]

Just now, Jackviator said:

Meant to say Body Count and Harkonar Scope. I'm just used to grouping those two mods together I guess :P

those mods suck anyway cus drifting contact mustardrace, and ew snipers(and ofc, this is a joke before anybody gives me a lecture about how snipers take skill that i dont have so i think they suck. not about bodycount tho, it legit sucks).

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

The problem here is that eximi took 0 damage when they weren't shot at weakpoints which were placed at barely hitable spots. Weakpoints should not work like that, unless you go with the excuse that the enemy is a boss, not a mini-boss like Eximus untis, but an actual boss. 

Instead weakpoints should be more like this, places where the enemy takes more damage, not the only place where enemies take damage. Oh and by the way we already have those http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enemy_Body_Parts

Just think, if weakpoints get added the way they were shown in the Devstream, would you be able to complete a Sortie mission with the Eximus Stronghold condition? Also keep in mind that those weakpoints were shown off on Infested, a basically mindless faction that moustly just blindly charges at you in big hordes, against those there is no time to carefully aim at small weakpoints which you probably won't even see!

And why do people think that NOTHING else would be adjusted? Seriously. Its clear DE has an idea about how difficult they want the game to be for the average player. They aren't going to suddenly make sorties unbeatable. And if, for some reason, it proves to difficult for the community.... They'll nerf it like they did to every other challenging enemy we've ever gotten.

It's like people can't think 2 steps ahead. This is why DE has to ignore doom threads. If they implement it, it won't be the end of the world and there won't be some insane jump in difficulty.

[FireSegment]

Honestly, DE don't have to "prove" that they "listen" to any certaln amount of player, it's a dev build, if it's good in testing, then it's a go, if it's bad, they provoke it and rework it. If it's "too imba" they nerf it (same fate as manic and bursa, in case u dont know, they were insanely imba when they were introduced ) One enemy dont ruin the whole game.

My point is, let them have the liberty to design their game, they are in the position to dictate how it should be play, as player we can only judge if something is a miss or a hit AFTER they release it.

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by FireSegment

[Jackviator]

28 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

bandaid" phrase so damn much that it has 0 meaning at this point.

Well, if it gets thrown around so much, that should tell you something. That is to say, maybe DE has made a habit of if. 

Anyhow, yeah, I'd qualify Body Count (or Drifting Contact if you're using a status weapon), Harkonar Scope and Depleted Reload as band-aid mods. Aka they were introduced as a solution that didn't really fix the main problem and made them a practically mandatory mod on weapons to address their issues.

Depleted Reload was introduced because people complained for months about the Vectis Prime having 2 bullets instead of 1, which hurt the weapon due to the unique interaction the original Vectis (which had 1 bullet) had with Charged Chamber. Instead of actually fixing the problem and reducing the weapon clip to 1 like people wanted, they just made it a mod that's become essentially mandatory on the weapon.

As for the combo counter mods... let's be real here. 3 seconds at base is just not enough for a Melee weapon. You're just going to run out of enemies. Instead of fixing it, they just added anither mod to the list of mandatory mods. And as for Snipers, the countdown timer on the combo reset actually encourages people to fire as quickly as possible in fear of losing the extra damage, which doesn't exactly suit the Sniper playstyle. And yet again, they just introduced a mod.

37 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you simply cant remove mandatory parts of builds in games, that just doesnt happen. and why is it wrong to have mandatory mods in the first place? you remove those mandatory mods and bam, they will be replaced by other mandatory mods. i can guarantee it will happen %100.

I don't see why it couldn't happen. Remove Serration and implement the damage-to-weapon rank system I suggested and people will have another slot to play with on their builds. Maybe they could slot in a Shred for punch-through, or a Reload Speed mod for some QOL. -Recoil to better control the weapon. People would have more freedom to shape the weapon to their playstyles.

As for why it's wrong to have mandatory mods, see my previous sentence. People don't have as much freedom to mod things how they want and still be effective. It's restrictive.

[Madway7]

2 hours ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

We should ... go ride bicycles and play Pokemon Go?

Pokemon Go ride a bike then.

 

Though your health would be at risk if you ride a bike while simultaniously playing Pokemon Go.

[BornWithTeeth]

8 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

And why do people think that NOTHING else would be adjusted? Seriously. Its clear DE has an idea about how difficult they want the game to be for the average player. They aren't going to suddenly make sorties unbeatable. And if, for some reason, it proves to difficult for the community.... They'll nerf it like they did to every other challenging enemy we've ever gotten.

It's like people can't think 2 steps ahead. This is why DE has to ignore doom threads. If they implement it, it won't be the end of the world and there won't be some insane jump in difficulty.

Yep. This is why Focus is a deep, rewarding system with multiple layers of tactical choice, which is carefully monitored by the devs due to its importance as the meta-warframe, account level progression tree.

[Vox_Preliator]

14 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

And why do people think that NOTHING else would be adjusted? Seriously. Its clear DE has an idea about how difficult they want the game to be for the average player. They aren't going to suddenly make sorties unbeatable. And if, for some reason, it proves to difficult for the community.... They'll nerf it like they did to every other challenging enemy we've ever gotten.

It's like people can't think 2 steps ahead. This is why DE has to ignore doom threads. If they implement it, it won't be the end of the world and there won't be some insane jump in difficulty.

People are scared that they'll implement it as was shown on the stream and not touch it for months on end.

Despite all the numerous times in the past where they're made a change and adjusted it in the following days, or listened to actual well-thought-out feedback.  Despite the preview being a really rough WIP, more like a proof-of-concept example, that wasn't even close to done.  Despite that implementing and balancing it would not be anywhere even slightly close to the humongous undertaking that revamping Focus would be.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Vox_Preliator

[BornWithTeeth]

4 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

People are scared that they'll implement it as was shown on the stream and not touch it for months on end.

Despite all the numerous times in the past where they're made a change and adjusted it in the following days, or listened to actual well-thought-out feedback.  Despite the preview being a really rough WIP, more like a proof-of-concept example, that wasn't even close to done.  Despite that implementing and balancing it would not be anywhere even slightly close to the humongous undertaking that revamping Focus would be.

I'm gonna point out that two months ago, there was an interview where Sheldon admitted that they had allowed systems to become entrenched in the game which then became toxic to necessary growth and were severely hindering updates to core systems of the game.

 

http://wccftech.com/talking-warframe-digital-extremes/

 

Reading between the lines of the interview, he basically said "Holy crap, we allowed Primed damage mods to be a thing and then we released Rivens! There's no way in hell we can do Damage 3.0 now!"

 

So....I don't have quite the same faith in DE's long term planning.

[Insizer]

2 hours ago, Momaw said:

If I say, they have to do it? Is that how this works?

* Set max enemy level in the game to 60. No enemy shall ever be higher level than this, period.

* Heavies and eximus become significantly heavier and eximusier, but slow down spawning of trash mobs when they show up

* Acknowledge the Braton Prime as the epitome of a reasonable and balanced weapon...  Buff and nerf all weaponry to fall into a +0%/-50% range from that point (based on MR and difficulty of acquisition).  AOE weaponry shall be balanced as if assumed to be hitting 3 enemies at all times.

* Fundamental rework of the energy economy to include a composite cooldown/energy system, harshly nerf all forms of energy restore, completely eliminate any "repeat on demand" form of energy restore

* Give both players and enemies a stacking immunity to all forms of crowd control and stunning

* Nerf all forms of damage immunity to be damage resistance, capped at 75%

* Enemies affected by powers are not eligible for stealth attacks or stealth damage multiplier

* Remove or rework entirely:  Covert lethality, blood rush, maiming strike

* Mastery points are gained by actively using weapons/warframes and completing a few simple tasks tailored to the type of gear;   the item's rank and by extension passive XP leeching has no effect on mastery gain.

 

What else what else....

There are a few things on here that I wouldn't like to see, but I agree with a good amount of this.

[o.0-]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Instead of implementing "weak point" eximus units, We should..........?

continue providing feedback... since you phrase it as 'We' in General Discussion...

 

I'd like to see what framework the devs have in mind for Damage 3.0, and how long is it gonna take to get it live? I have my archived thoughts here.

[Zeclem]

27 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Well, if it gets thrown around so much, that should tell you something. That is to say, maybe DE has made a habit of if. 

Anyhow, yeah, I'd qualify Body Count (or Drifting Contact if you're using a status weapon), Harkonar Scope and Depleted Reload as band-aid mods. Aka they were introduced as a solution that didn't really fix the main problem and made them a practically mandatory mod on weapons to address their issues.

Depleted Reload was introduced because people complained for months about the Vectis Prime having 2 bullets instead of 1, which hurt the weapon due to the unique interaction the original Vectis (which had 1 bullet) had with Charged Chamber. Instead of actually fixing the problem and reducing the weapon clip to 1 like people wanted, they just made it a mod that's become essentially mandatory on the weapon.

As for the combo counter mods... let's be real here. 3 seconds at base is just not enough for a Melee weapon. You're just going to run out of enemies. Instead of fixing it, they just added anither mod to the list of mandatory mods. And as for Snipers, the countdown timer on the combo reset actually encourages people to fire as quickly as possible in fear of losing the extra damage, which doesn't exactly suit the Sniper playstyle. And yet again, they just introduced a mod.

I don't see why it couldn't happen. Remove Serration and implement the damage-to-weapon rank system I suggested and people will have another slot to play with on their builds. Maybe they could slot in a Shred for punch-through, or a Reload Speed mod for some QOL. -Recoil to better control the weapon. People would have more freedom to shape the weapon to their playstyles.

As for why it's wrong to have mandatory mods, see my previous sentence. People don't have as much freedom to mod things how they want and still be effective. It's restrictive.

it gets thrown around so much and %90 of the time its just people not liking the route de took and want to bash it. and that only happens within the forum community, which is a minority.

theyre not mandatory mods if youre not using a bloodrush/weeping build on your weapons. and you dont even need to use them to make your weapons viable.

people who actually complained about vectis prime having two more shots are just people who might need to learn what reloading is. nothing is stopping you from reloading manually after each shot on vectis p. if they actually decreased mag size of vectis p, i wouldnt like that gun as much as i do, so thankfully de didnt listen to kids who is too lazy to manually reload. good on them.

and then those QoL mods become mandatory cus they increase dps better than other current non mandatory mods. it WILL happen. there isnt a single game without mandatory items/skills in their builds. there is just no such a thing. be thankful warframe only limits it to 2-3 mods(straight damage and multishot mods). that wont stop you from building the way you want and still be viable.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

This, it may not be fear but there's something cacky that's stopping DE from adjusting mods.

I don't understand it tbh, if it sucks they can just rollback. That's the beauty of beta, they can make all the changes that they want.

Buff Status mods from 15% to 120% and it makes things OP? Nerf it.

Bit too weak now? Buff it.

Sweet spot? Leave it.

Can't reach that sweet spot unless you actually try though.

How many times have you seen de "go back" after a change .