The Euphona Prime is alt fire done wrong.

[Fari]

15 hours ago, Seinerweisen said:

Bingo. Use one mode exclusively. Euphona is a secondary weapon..SECONDARY. Are you trying to turn it into a Primary weapon? Secondaries are usually used 1. When you are down. 2 when you are carrying Data mass. 3. Secondary Sorties. Like what do you want? DE gave us 2 weapons in 1. A shotgun and a pistol. Can you normally change modes with your other secondary weapons? No. Will the shotgun work just fine without 100% Status?...Yes..... It will be fine I promise. I personaly will build for the shotgun. 4x 60% elementals+Lethal Torrent+Barrel Diffusiont+Hornet Strike+ Primed Pistol Gambit. Base Crit multiplier of 2.5 aint nothin to sneeze at imo... better than a multiplier of 2x... or 1.5x. The choice is yours.  

You're high on your own farts. The only case of secondaries being "worse" than primaries is if primaries means "Tigris". If anything, it's the exact opposite when it comes to semi auto weapons in general, they're all awful for primaries and pretty okay for secondaries. 

Not our fault you treat your secondary as just an occasional use thing, statistically that's not what they usually are.

[Madway7]

I just want this whole 100% status on shotguns (without factoring in multishot) for it to actually be a status shotgun to end already by changing the stat to status/pellet and allow us to mod from there.

Though I'm pretty sure DE might make the values abysmal to work with.

[TaylorsContraction]

So can someone clarify if the modes are a toggle or not? There's one guy saying it is and confusing me in the process.  If it's not a toggle I hope they change it to one.

[NightmareT12]

10 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

So can someone clarify if the modes are a toggle or not? There's one guy saying it is and confusing me in the process.  If it's not a toggle I hope they change it to one.

They're not, it works like the Javlok (press Alt fire does alt fire)

Edited March 1, 2017 by NightmareT12

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

So can someone clarify if the modes are a toggle or not? There's one guy saying it is and confusing me in the process.  If it's not a toggle I hope they change it to one.

It's not a toggle.

And I actually hope they don't change it to one.

Locking it into being a weapon that's only good at ~10m unless fiddling occurs would be un-welcome to me. 

Too much fiddling for a function that's supposed to be low range burst damage... Little piggie's dmg falloff at range is harsh.

If a player only wants to use that function then just press mouse 3 or map the function to something you will want to press.

...You will have achieved the same thing.

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

It's not a toggle.

And I actually hope they don't change it to one.

Locking it into being a weapon that's only good at ~10m unless fiddling occurs would be un-welcome to me. 

Too much fiddling for a function that's supposed to be low range burst damage... Little piggie's dmg falloff at range is harsh.

If a player only wants to use that function then just press mouse 3 or map the function to something you will want to press.

...You will have achieved the same thing.

"Screw you console users"

That's how it comes across to me. And don't even try to sell me "their fault not having other inup methods", that's not how you work for a playerbase.

[Bibliothekar]

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

If a player only wants to use that function then just press mouse 3 or map the function to something you will want to press.

I already have Alternate Fire mapped to something other than MB3 (because that always was "use selected ability"). But even then, having it on one of my mouse's shoulder buttons is only good for occasional use, like switching firing modes or detonating grenades / Simulor vortices. Not for constant use just because I actually want to use "Banshee's signature shotgun" as a shotgun instead of a long-range sniping pistol.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, NightmareT12 said:

"Screw you console users"

That's how it comes across to me. And don't even try to sell me "their fault not having other inup methods", that's not how you work for a playerbase.

Since I didn't say anything like that I can only reasonably assume you either just:

• Hoisted a strawman
• Told us how you feel

I say this because my response wasn't to a console user.

That said, I would presume that controllers can be mapped as well. Perhaps you should grab a controller and figure that out.

...Right after you take that strawman down.

[Morgana_Arcana]

I got around to actually trying it. The alt fire is not a toggle - secondary fire button uses the shotgun mode.

This is extremely annoying. The way I've had my controls set-up for years, has put the alt-fire in a place where I'm ok pressing it occasionally, but my hand doesn't naturally sit there like it does for regular clicking.

Please make this a toggle, or I probably just won't bother using it.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

I already have Alternate Fire mapped to something other than MB3 (because that always was "use selected ability"). But even then, having it on one of my mouse's shoulder buttons is only good for occasional use, like switching firing modes or detonating grenades / Simulor vortices. Not for constant use just because I actually want to use "Banshee's signature shotgun" as a shotgun instead of a long-range sniping pistol.

I hear ya.

Banshee's shotgun function is designed for ~10m distances with harsh falloff. It fairly sucks at 15-20m imo.

This makes it no different from most of the older alt-fire weapons in that you need to be mindful of your position to get best effect.

The difference, of course, is that it won't kill you.

If you are cool with detonating grenades when mobs get close to them, this should be a snap. 

 

 

[NightmareT12]

17 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Since I didn't say anything like that I can only reasonably assume you either just:

• Hoisted a strawman
• Told us how you feel

I say this because my response wasn't to a console user.

That said, I would presume that controllers can be mapped as well. Perhaps you should grab a controller and figure that out.

...Right after you take that strawman down.

Not only I did...

1 minute ago, Camisoul said:

I got around to actually trying it. The alt fire is not a toggle - secondary fire button uses the shotgun mode.

This is extremely annoying. The way I've had my controls set-up for years, has put the alt-fire in a place where I'm ok pressing it occasionally, but my hand doesn't naturally sit there like it does for regular clicking.

Please make this a toggle, or I probably just won't bother using it.

This person did too ;)

DE should totally get a rule of thumb when doing alt fire modes:

You want a toggle when...:

• The alt fire simply changes fire mode, and it could be treated as a different weapon. IE: Stradavar, Zarr, Euphona Prime.

You want it to fire when...:

• The alt fire sends the weapon away (Javlok)
• The alt fire sends a single projectile away that's going to stay for a while (Panthera, Azima)
• The alt fire is to detonate an already thrown projectile (Talon)
• You make the weapon work differently, but Primary fire should be accessible ASAP because it can work in conjunction with it (Quanta)

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Not only I did...

This person did too ;)
 

Actually the person you just referenced sounds like a mouse/kb user that basically removed the alt-fire function from a convenient location to suit their own tastes.

That's not my problem—It's theirs.

...Put the strawman down.

You have now asserted that DE should magically take account of everyone's personal config choices and seek to accommodate them individually?

Actually... They already have by making the controls configurable. Yay! 

Configure the controls to something you will use and remember... Kinda simple.

9 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

DE should totally get a rule of thumb when doing alt fire modes:

You want a toggle when...:

• The alt fire simply changes fire mode, and it could be treated as a different weapon. IE: Stradavar, Zarr, Euphona Prime.

You want it to fire when...:

• The alt fire sends the weapon away (Javlok)
• The alt fire sends a single projectile away that's going to stay for a while (Panthera, Azima)
• The alt fire is to detonate an already thrown projectile (Talon)
• You make the weapon work differently, but Primary fire should be accessible ASAP because it can work in conjunction with it (Quanta)

You just shot yourself in the foot with your own logic.

Let me help clear it up for you...

11 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

You make the weapon work differently, but Primary fire should be accessible ASAP because it can work in conjunction with it (Quanta)

That's exactly what the Euphona prime does.

The scattergun is only good to about ~10 meters or so because of the damage fall-off. More than 12-15 meters and you need to be pistol shooting it or you are losing dps.

Basically, doing as you and others ask pigeonholes this weapon to suit your playstyle.

...Because you can't be bothered to remember your own control configurations and/or are too ingrained to pressing another button to fire?

That's insanely lazy... No offense.

Truth? Nothing wrong with choosing to use  the scattergun at further distances— It's an alternate playstyle that you are accepting the risks/rewards to. Do it up.

There is something wrong with asking me to amend my playstyle to suit it though... Which is what you are doing.

Learn to press the right button.

 

  

[NightmareT12]

37 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Actually the person you just referenced sounds like a mouse/kb user that basically removed the alt-fire function from a convenient location to suit their own tastes.

That's not my problem—It's theirs.

...Put the strawman down.

You have now asserted that DE should magically take account of everyone's personal config choices and seek to accommodate them individually?

Actually... They already have by making the controls configurable. Yay! 

Configure the controls to something you will use and remember... Kinda simple.

You just shot yourself in the foot with your own logic.

Let me help clear it up for you...

That's exactly what the Euphona prime does.

The scattergun is only good to about ~10 meters or so because of the damage fall-off. More than 12-15 meters and you need to be pistol shooting it or you are losing dps.

Basically, doing as you and others ask pigeonholes this weapon to suit your playstyle.

...Because you can't be bothered to remember your own control configurations and/or are too ingrained to pressing another button to fire?

That's insanely lazy... No offense.

Truth? Nothing wrong with choosing to use  the scattergun at further distances— It's an alternate playstyle that you are accepting the risks/rewards to. Do it up.

There is something wrong with asking me to amend my playstyle to suit it though... Which is what you are doing.

Learn to press the right button.

 

  

Do I shoot Cubes of explosive material with the Euphona now?

Do I not press the right button?

Are you kidding me?

Edited March 1, 2017 by NightmareT12

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

So pressing a button to switch firing modes is pigeonholing a certain playstyle to a certain demographic.

Dafuq?

[Rakosta_Kai]

53 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Do I shoot Cubes of explosive material with the Euphona now?

It's actually a 10 meter cone (for best damage)... I don't see cubes though. Consider a better gfx card perhaps?

Absent that, you can think of it as a close range penta blast that won't kill you if the lack of cubes disturbs you.

53 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Do I not press the right button?

No clue what button you are pressing bud.

If you are complaining about needing a toggle to use scattergun only...Probably not. 

53 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Do you even try?

I'll tell you what I don't try...

• To make make up crap or shift facts into opinions to make my supported stance sound reasonable.
• To stumble on my own logic and act obtuse when said logic is successfully challenged.
• To hoist weak fallacies to support weak arguments that ask other players to subsidize my personal play style.
  •  "The button is inconvenient" Practice makes perfect?
  • "I don't wanna have to remember to do that" It's only one button... You can't remember one button?
  • "What will the controllers players do" What they been doing for the quanta and penta for years now?
  • "Alt -fire works different on different weapons"  Yes... Yes, it does. And it doesn't work on every weapon too. Just like all weapons don't do the same damage or damage types. 

You should give those a whirl bud.

While you are at it, you should:

• Grab a post-it note. 
• Jot down where you put your alt-fire button this time so you can remember it. 
• Stick it on your monitor and leave it there until you remember where you put your alt-fire binding... Then actually practice using it.
• ...Profit.

...I hear mnemonic devices help.

 

-Have a good day!

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Padre_Akais

[Morgana_Arcana]

Now you're doing the strawman. I didn't say I "forgot" my keybinding, that's absurd. I said I do use it, and it's inconvenient to spam. There's nothing like left/right click when it comes to that responsiveness. And since right-click is widely used for aim/glide, that's out. Middle click isn't the same, it's a heavier button with more resistance, and also in other games I have completely worn out my middle mouse button to where it stopped working, just because I put a spammy ability on it. Where else am I supposed to put that function?

[Dragazer]

19 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I simply disagree completely with the entire premise of this thread. I do not think there is anything wrong with a weapon with two fire modes where you need to mod between missions if you want either fire mode to be fully optimal. 

It's called making you make a choice. Weapon modding is supposed to be about making decisions and not just having your cake and eating it too. If you want to optimize one mode, either status or crit, you can mod for that. Or you can mod it more generically for straight damage and switch between the modes more during the mission. This gives you three distinct options. I do not see anything wrong with this or the design of the weapon. I think this is alt fire done right. 

 

20 hours ago, Seinerweisen said:

Bingo. Use one mode exclusively. Euphona is a secondary weapon..SECONDARY. Are you trying to turn it into a Primary weapon? Secondaries are usually used 1. When you are down. 2 when you are carrying Data mass. 3. Secondary Sorties. Like what do you want? DE gave us 2 weapons in 1. A shotgun and a pistol. Can you normally change modes with your other secondary weapons? No. Will the shotgun work just fine without 100% Status?...Yes..... It will be fine I promise. I personaly will build for the shotgun. 4x 60% elementals+Lethal Torrent+Barrel Diffusiont+Hornet Strike+ Primed Pistol Gambit. Base Crit multiplier of 2.5 aint nothin to sneeze at imo... better than a multiplier of 2x... or 1.5x. The choice is yours.  

 

Yet the Zarr's stats allows it to be modded optimally for both fire modes. as in "2 weapons in 1"

Switching to shotgun mode automatically makes your 2 crit mods worthless.

That isn't an issue with the Zarr so why should it be for the Euphona Prime a MR 14 weapon?

Why even both letting us switch in mission when the choice has already been decided in the mod screen, makes no sense at all.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Dragazer

[(XBOX)Godlike13]

On a console controller there aren't many reconfigure options to make this kind of secondary fire more practical to use regularly with out making somthing else you use regular unpractical. 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by (XB1)Godlike13

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I disagree to the extent that the Alt-fire shotgun damage has very limited useful range.

I am running Arcane Avenger and thus each pellet with Scattergun Alt-fire has an additional flat 30% crit chance allowing for 

Serration, Barrel Diffusion, Primed Target Cracker, Primed Pistol Gambit, and all 4 Dual-status 60% elemental/60% Status chance mods

The occasional red-crits in Primary fire work fine and the flat Crit-damage let's the occasional use of Alt-fire to still be decent for both damage and status application.

Requires no Forma for the build, but does need you to get hit from a stray bullet/AoE effect from time to time.

Granted it is described as Banshee's weapon but no innate Punch-through on non-hitscan Projectile means it is not Hallway Resonance Sonar friendly. Even more so with the horrible damage fall-off on Alt-fire. 

(Makes it weird since Banshee can remove Armor with Augment. Which would be most of the reason for using a 100% Status build. Banshee can also always amp the damage of Primary fire even if Dual-status mods were used in place of Raw damage)

 

I find the weapon to be more like a revamped Rakta Ballistica, but ultimately more practical to use.

 

I will strongly agree it makes the Euphona Prime difficult to have a Universal Maximized build. Especially if not using Arcane Avenger or Ironskin/Warding Halo

-My opinion

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

I disagree to the extent that the Alt-fire shotgun damage has very limited useful range.

I am running Arcane Avenger and thus each pellet with Scattergun Alt-fire has an additional flat 30% crit chance allowing for 

Serration, Barrel Diffusion, Primed Target Cracker, Primed Pistol Gambit, and all 4 Dual-status 60% elemental/60% Status chance mods

The occasional red-crits in Primary fire work fine and the flat Crit-damage let's the occasional use of Alt-fire to still be decent for both damage and status application.

Requires no Forma for the build, but does need you to get hit from a stray bullet/AoE effect from time to time.

Granted it is described as Banshee's weapon but no innate Punch-through on non-hitscan Projectile means it is not Hallway Resonance Sonar friendly. Even more so with the horrible damage fall-off on Alt-fire. 

(Makes it weird since Banshee can remove Armor with Augment. Which would be most of the reason for using a 100% Status build. Banshee can also always amp the damage of Primary fire even if Dual-status mods were used in place of Raw damage)

 

I find the weapon to be more like a revamped Rakta Ballistica, but ultimately more practical to use.

 

I will strongly agree it makes the Euphona Prime difficult to have a Universal Maximized build. Especially if not using Arcane Avenger or Ironskin/Warding Halo

-My opinion

Thank you, and I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion. I would also like to add that Smeeta's occasional red crit buff from Charm does not discount Euphona Prime's Alt-Fire crit-capability.

It's like the Nukor and how a majority of players can't wrap around how to make that weapon crit, and when given/shown the options to do so still discount its crit-build relevance.

[Snowbluff]

22 hours ago, Seinerweisen said:

Bingo. Use one mode exclusively. Euphona is a secondary weapon..SECONDARY. Are you trying to turn it into a Primary weapon? Secondaries are usually used 1.

Omg it's a secondary WEAPON. Why can't people use it as a functional weapon? Stupid arguments are stupid.

[Dragazer]

Another DE can fix this, is to buff the shotgun alt fire status to 40% so you can reach 100% status chance with just 3 dual stats.

That will give you enough space for both crit mods.

Use shotgun mode specifically just for corrosive procs, and than slug mode for actual dmg 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Dragazer

[Dragazer]

23 hours ago, Seinerweisen said:

Bingo. Use one mode exclusively. 

This logic gave me a stroke.

What's the point of Alt fire modes if you are only just going to use one mode exclusively?

[--DSP--]

10 hours ago, Azlen said:

It doesn't matter that it's a weapon and not a Warframe. Since when do people complain about having to build for 1 aspect of a weapon in favor of another? Last I checked there are plenty of weapons that are both crit and status viable. Do people complain that they have to pick a build there? No, they don't.

But this is not a crit/status viable weapon. This is a weapon with two DIFFERENT machanic with two DIFFERENT viability. 

[0meg4x]

 The damage falloff on the Euphona Prime's alt-fire is pointless.

 

 The shot has a lot of spread already, why reduce its damage so drastically when you are just hitting a few pellets at mid/long range?

 I would rather make it the same as the Zarr's Alt-fire, if the idea was supposed to be the same (No shotgun sniping).

 

 I would also love if it was crit based instead of status because this makes it impossible to mod for both which is dissapointing but I guess we can live with it. xD