tomnmillie Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 11 hours ago, imoneoldfart said: Exactly, if exterminate is like that to him, why not complain about capture? i managed t sit in a room for an hour farming plastid after i downed the target, you want survival with no life support, there you go. I like the new changes. It makes it muc easier to get the fissures, you dont have to worry about not opening the relic or have to wait while someone runs back through the map picking them up. Because capture wasn't the only non-endless mission...altho, now that you mention it, the enemy being in a state of alert for the rest of the mission is odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, Volinus7 said: I recommend you to stop putting money into it. If you look closely, you will see other chronic problems too. And of course "beta excuses" fly all over the place when a thread like this pop up. "Year of quality" joke in WF is always catchy. If you want to keep your sanity while playing this game, you should not expect anything and don't think too much on the mechanics are well thought or not, numbers are appropriate or not, grinding, rng...etc. Being as brainless as possible is your salvation. Alpha - Someone finally gets it! I purposely avoided YoQ, DE's biggest betrayal of its fanbase. Beta - Always torn between I've done so much, invested so much, should I stop? A thing I think DE banks on. Then I think, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice (or, you know, 15 or more times) shame on me. And yes, the alpha/beta thing is a horrible joke to also acknowledge your beta comment... Edited March 2, 2017 by tomnmillie punctuation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loswaith Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, SubtleOaf said: I definitely miss the old exterminate. They were the only missions ( defense doesn't count considering the extra small static layout, lack of loot-box, instant mission completion on last kill) were you could actually have the pleasure of full clearing, if you so wished. You kill everything, loot everything and no enemy or chest remains. No echo on radar. Once cleared, you could explore the place and if you wanted to practice some particular jump, you could do so undisturbed. The new one, as some have already said, feels just like a survival. I find far more anti-climatic to still have gazillions of guards to kill in the secret lab/ship after I've wiped the floor with the "large platoon of grinner stationed there" than the silent place it should be. So much this. They just homogenized the mission into the basics of every other mission. Exterminate lost its uniqueness in that you could actually completely clear out the mission, when all others have the "you just cleared this area but enemies appear 3 seconds later". Long ago Raid missions (similar to Maroos Ayatan missions, for those not aware) were removed because it was too similar to other missions (most of those have been changed now), yet Exterminate just got made into every other mission Kinda feels now more like Lotus is going "well you half-arsed this mission, I guess that is good enough. Get to extraction". Or for infested "Wipe out all infestation Tenno." changed to "Well I guess a bit of it will be just fine, the rest wont grow back... right?...." Edited March 2, 2017 by Loswaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Loswaith said: So much this. They just homogenized the mission into the basics of every other mission. Exterminate lost its uniqueness in that you could actually completely clear out the mission, when all others have the "you just cleared this area but enemies appear 3 seconds later". Long ago Raid missions (similar to Maroos Ayatan missions, for those not aware) were removed because it was too similar to other missions (most of those have been changed now), yet Exterminate just got made into every other mission Kinda feels now more like Lotus is going "well you half-arsed this mission, I guess that is good enough. Get to extraction". Or for infested "Wipe out all infestation Tenno." changed to "Well I guess a bit of it will be just fine, the rest wont grow back... right?...." ^^^waved magical wand and said it in a better fashion than I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imoneoldfart Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, tomnmillie said: Because capture wasn't the only non-endless mission...altho, now that you mention it, the enemy being in a state of alert for the rest of the mission is odd... I didnt mind, was able toget plastid and the 5 bursas i need for inaros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, imoneoldfart said: I didnt mind, was able toget plastid and the 5 bursas i need for inaros. Nor should you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imoneoldfart Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, tomnmillie said: Nor should you! Except according to your ludicrus argument, I should not able to down the target and sit there farming because it makes an endless survival without life support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Yep, that's my argument alright. Incisive read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmas71 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 i despise the change. Clearing a map or an asteroid was a unique feeling. thinking perhaps it would take months, likely years in deep space for the enemy to discover what happened there. Issues or not, exterminate was my favorite mission type. Now it's just like any other mission, where you fight endless enemies until you get the cue to leave. Boring, repetitive, artificially busy with enemies spawning right behind you, killing muh immersion. This is depressing, the more i think about it. No more strolling around the map at your own pace, hopping over bodies while taking in the sights. No more walking quietly to extraction, with an empty gun and the calm satisfaction of a job well done... rip T-T They really should have just made a new mission variant and called it something else. As op pointed out, (and some fanboys laughably tried to deny) the name doesn't fit anymore, nor does the dialogue sound very convincing. I sincerely hope, but sadly doubt that DE will roll back this flop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimAtrament Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) the only problem with the new exterminate missions is when your medallion hunting but its a huge breath of fresh air for fissure missions Edited March 2, 2017 by hazerddex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 9:04 PM, Tesseract7777 said: You are wrong. Just because we do not kill every single living thing does not mean it no longer means it is an "Exterminate mission". Exterminate means to destroy completely but the definition does not specify how many you have to destroy. It does not specify that you must kill a group or an entire colony. It just means to completely kill something. It means those Grineer you shot in that mission will stay dead -- check out the definition again. You just got used to it meaning "kill every enemy in the map" when playing Warframe, but you are confused about what the definition means -- you are probably also getting confused because pest control often call themselves exterminators and they try to kill every bug. But even the best don't guarantee they can get every single last one. They just kill most of them and then the rest flee for their lives to avoid the poison and traps... You are overthinking the definition and you are wrong. Calling it an "exterminate" mission, simply means that the only goal in that mission is to kill enemies. It is nothing like "survival without life support". In survival our objective is to distract the enemy while a really, really dumb Tenno tries to raid the ship for supplies and finds only garbage. In Exterminate we destroy our enemies... and that's it. Um, I like the new changes but you are making me agree with the OP here... stop it. Exterminate means to destroy them all. If we are at a location and our job is to "exterminate the grineer" then that means ALL OF THEM. not some - technically speaking. Do you pay an exterminator to come in and stomp on a few cockroaches with his shoe and leave others?, When you say you want them exterminated did you mean all of them in your house? However this is a game, and we can let it go, but don't try to say that killing some and leaving some alive amounts to "exterminating" the grineer at the location. That is simply the wrong way to use the word. However we CAN say "we're going to exterminate this garrison"... and the last few fleeing means the garrison is still "dead". So if we refer to the garrison as it's own single entity we exterminated it. There are other ways to win the point without rewriting the definition of exterminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex9-3-9 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Do not forget that 100% stealth Ext without Loki is now impossible because you are getting rushed from all possible directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Huh, after reading this I now don't like the change. I actually didn't notice you could stay around and farm things. That's nuts. I assumed it just meant that in a 100 enemies exterminate there were 105 enemies. That's how is should be. DE should allow you to exit with 5 enemies still left on the board, just 5 no matter what the kill amount is Exit appears at kill amount - 5. So that if someone doesn't spawn or someone is stuck you can still get out, but you can still kill 105/100 and it's still exterminate. Didn't realize they made it endless spawning... that's just silly. That is what survival is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIREEK Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 De did a nice update with the exterminate because they adress several problems (for players and DE) with that change. let's begin with a problem that DE has, the pacing of missions and the duration of said missions, if you have been in warframe for a year or more, you noticed a change in game mechanics for bosses and missions that fix to adress the gap that exist between the players that clear missions in 10 minutes and those that do it in 2, the gap has been getting shorter but still rewards players that do effort, core ship sabotage missions, assault missions, spy missions, bosses invulnerability aim at the things that are done in a few seconds and extends them so that the missions last longer. Exterminates, once the enemies are killed, everyone goes to extraction, by adding enemies they might stop and give reasons for players to stay in the missions, even if it's just to clear a path to extraction, dragging the mission a little bit. It also gives players a reason to kill more rewarding enemies such as eximus units (benefits archwing heavily) and enables more rewards on the long run such as exp, the downside is always the extra time that you need to complete the mission (aiming, killing this or that unit, avoiding getting killed, this always adds to time to atleast 1 player in the team). If you are the kind of player that absolutely destroys all enemies on sight, this won't change much, you end up clearing a path to extraction so not even the newbies have a chance to waste time asside from the slow tileset progression. However this changes heavily in sorties because world on fire and other abilities will be far less effective, so once the objective is done there are still strong enemies that need to be killed or avoided and this will add to the time even if it's a little bit. So, to resume I think for those who are scaning arching it is great I think for newbies it is bad as they lack the necessary knowledge to decide what is best in a given situation, this drags and extends gameplay for them, they might kill enemies that are not necessary and the efficiency while playing will be affected Advanced players get rewarded even more (exp, scans, oberon components), the gap between new players and advanced players increases Sorties will drag by a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 10 hours ago, Sigmas71 said: Clearing a map or an asteroid was a unique feeling. thinking perhaps it would take months, likely years in deep space for the enemy to discover what happened there. And yet, when you returned to the area five minutes later it was fully repopulated again. The 'new exterminate' is much more consistent with that reality, and therefore less immersion breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shockwave- said: -snip- The dictionary disagrees with you, sorry. I know facts can be inconvenient. Edited March 2, 2017 by Tesseract7777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmas71 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 5 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said: more consistent with that reality, and therefore less immersion breaking. What reality? that all missions are meaningless copies of each other? that enemies are just a virtually infinite ai? that they need not follow the rules of spacetime and can "spawn" in the closet-sized room you just exited? that any sort of meager depth that the shooting aspect of this game holds is constantly being stomped out by the mob-rush hacknslash aoe spam fest that all the kids seem to enjoy? Huh... Well, consistency with the things that make this game an arcade shooter more than anything else are frankly a turn-off for some of us. Far from being immersive, my eyes glaze over when the hectic rhythm of most missions begins, and from then on it's muscle memory and semi-voluntary twitching 'till extract. I get that the whole "battling through an acid trip" is this game's dna, believe me i enjoy it greatly as well. But the quiet missions had their own appeal, particularly on the moon and earth.. even the old corpus ship could be atmospheric and eerie when there was only a few enemies on board. The enemy radar could be used for planing tactics, now it's just to check how many moa's are coming up behind you... Anyway, we had that option, now it's gone and i believe the game is worse for it. Hurray for those who don't give a F***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 On 3/2/2017 at 1:21 PM, Tesseract7777 said: The dictionary disagrees with you, sorry. I know facts can be inconvenient. as can accurate understanding of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanchak Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I dont much like the new exterminate either. I used to enjoy wandering around an empty tileset after I'd killed everything. Theres so many things I see now that I never noticed 1200 hours ago because I was too interested in getting to the end. They could of just upped reactant drops, or stopped joining people way too late in the mission rather than add this small, but irritable change that has made peaceful roamings a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Zanchak said: I dont much like the new exterminate either. I used to enjoy wandering around an empty tileset after I'd killed everything. Theres so many things I see now that I never noticed 1200 hours ago because I was too interested in getting to the end. They could of just upped reactant drops, or stopped joining people way too late in the mission rather than add this small, but irritable change that has made peaceful roamings a thing of the past. Maybe now is a good time to request that DE add a 'no enemies' option to the proposed clan-designed mission feature, that way you could explore to your heart's content around a tileset of your own design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanchak Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 44 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said: Maybe now is a good time to request that DE add a 'no enemies' option to the proposed clan-designed mission feature, that way you could explore to your heart's content around a tileset of your own design. By ALL means if that's what YOU want, go ahead :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajaki Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I agree that this new mission type shouldn't be called extermination, ranting on the forums isn't going to help. Constructive feedback may be the answer. what I think should happen is the following: Rename the grineer and corpus "exterminate" missions to "break the enemy" (or something along those lines) But make the enemy actually flee once a certain amount has been killed. Yes there will be enemies still on the map, but instead of patrolling/dossing about normally, they run from the player, with further incentives (such as a higher resource drop from fleeing enemies as they "grab what they can" to try and escape.) to continue hunting them. This means that while you can then have traditional exterminate missions for these enemy types, the enemies that we know wouldn't flee because of lore (ie, corrupted/infested) have normal exterminate missions as they would continue to fight until they are all dead. which brings me onto my next point "exterminate" missions for infested and corrupted should remain as the traditional exterminate mission. There are a set number of enemies on the map and you have to wipe them all out. because everything we've seen/been told about these enemy types indicates that they wouldn't flee. They are mindless or fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Also a thought I had, re corrupted and infested. Which leads me to wonder why the corrupted set off alarms in the relic missions. Oi, quote didn't appear. It's below, what I'm responding to... Edited March 7, 2017 by tomnmillie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 On 3/4/2017 at 9:17 AM, Sajaki said: I agree that this new mission type shouldn't be called extermination, ranting on the forums isn't going to help. Constructive feedback may be the answer. what I think should happen is the following: Rename the grineer and corpus "exterminate" missions to "break the enemy" (or something along those lines) But make the enemy actually flee once a certain amount has been killed. Yes there will be enemies still on the map, but instead of patrolling/dossing about normally, they run from the player, with further incentives (such as a higher resource drop from fleeing enemies as they "grab what they can" to try and escape.) to continue hunting them. This means that while you can then have traditional exterminate missions for these enemy types, the enemies that we know wouldn't flee because of lore (ie, corrupted/infested) have normal exterminate missions as they would continue to fight until they are all dead. which brings me onto my next point "exterminate" missions for infested and corrupted should remain as the traditional exterminate mission. There are a set number of enemies on the map and you have to wipe them all out. because everything we've seen/been told about these enemy types indicates that they wouldn't flee. They are mindless or fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomnmillie Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, tomnmillie said: It's a mess! Trying to get this post right, I tells ya! Edited March 7, 2017 by tomnmillie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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