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[DE]Rebecca

Operation: The Pacifism Defect

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Throw another one on the pile:

HOT CRAP this event is bad.

Anyone not in a fully maxed clan of any tier is punished.
Anyone who has an outside life from Warframe is punished.

Easy fix: Rebalance the numbers. Stop going for grind. It's not even like the high numbers are pulling money. I can't even complain it's a pay-to-win tactic, it's just a bad idea. Having a high-level tier with the blueprint to reward those who worked especially hard is fine, but locking the lowest tier behind such a nasty-high amount in one mission is uncalled for.

Lemme pull you aside for a second, DE and whisper some advice.
Stop doing this. 
And for the love of God, please understand.
Nobody likes escort missions.

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I'm completely okay with the bs of this event, as long as the Ignis Wraith becomes available by other means later.

Cause the @(*()$ 1300 point requirement for a solo run is @(*()$ abysmal...

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I never post and im more of a lurker around these boards however this event and its reward system needs feedback badly.

Myself and two friends originally started playing Warframe a few years ago however they have moved on to other games and i play alone and ocasionally with pugs.  While i may not get the newest weapons right away its something to strive for and ive built my ghost clan dojo by myself for the most part.  With this new direction on clans i would prefer to not piss away the countless hours ive spent.  It was self imposed content to give me a stretch goal for playing the game.

Ive joined a large clan in the past and it was literally no different than pugging.  No one knew or cared about each other.  Call me antisocial however its the way I have played this game for years through and participated in all prior events and have gotten all the weapon rewards.

Now my dedication and love of the game has literally been gutted by this event.  I would have put in the time to participate in the event over the next week but the curve and basic exclusion of the minority who prefer to play solo or with a very small group of people and asking them to spend huge amounts of time grinding points in one run is absolutely insane.

I am not asking to get the event weapon in a few hours, I am willing to put in time over the course of the week but 300+ points in a singular run just because im in a one man clan is flat out ignoring your playerbase matter how small.  This has been said multiple times in this thread however i would like to reiterate, people have jobs, kids, families.  Hopefully someone at DE will read through this thread and see the potential damage and make corrections to the event. 

If this trend continues my time and my wallet will definately be moving on. 

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7 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Nobody likes escort missions.

This should be considered a fundamental law of the universe.  No one in the history of gaming has ever liked escort missions.  I'm amazed that after all the awesome ideas posted in the mission concept thread last year, THIS is what they create.

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17 minutes ago, Deaddis said:

I'm completely okay with the bs of this event, as long as the Ignis Wraith becomes available by other means later.

Cause the @(*()$ 1300 point requirement for a solo run is @(*()$ abysmal...

Why would they make it available later? The 3rd reward tier is a "trophy" they wouldn't trample on it. I.E. unlocking the Ignis Wraith in clan tech.

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It's been said so many times already, but yeah this is a total "screw you" to clans that have any inactive or low ranked members. My Shadow clan only has 3 members who are actually active and have decent gear and mods. Everyone else has been inactive for a few weeks or has a fairly low MR and 3rd rate weapons.

We would have to get 317 extractions in a single run, assuming we are even online at the same time to run it together, just to get the lowest clan reward of the individual Ignis Wraith blueprint.

I guess that's what I get for letting new players join the clan and not kicking everyone who hasn't signed in for more than 24 hours. This isn't even something you might make money from like the Hema, you're just flat out screwing a large portion of your players.

I've already got my personal best of 428, which is far more than any one person should need just to maybe have a slight hope at getting the participation reward.

 

Make it cumulative instead of just the best scores and I'll grind for days. Lower the best score requirements for the first two rewards to account for less active or lower MR clans. Either of those and I will probably give the game a few more chances, but otherwise I think I am about done with this game.

 

I have been dedicated to this game for over a year, starting on PS4 and then moving to PC about 11 months ago. I have logged 421 hours over the course of over 200 logins, spent at least $1,130 on plat because I have enjoyed and wanted to support this game. Lately, though, I see nothing but DE trying to force barely passable content down our throats, and requiring excessively more grinding, playtime, and ruthless clan management in order to even receive that content.

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I am terribly disapointed in this event. I knew a clan event was coming but if I would have know it was gonna be like this I would have left my clan and joined a more active one. Our current score for the shadow clan I'm is in 464, which is my run. We have maybe two people active in our clan and our leader refuses to downsize. If this has taught me anything, its that I don't need to waste my time with clans my "friends" are in if DE is gonna keep doing clan events like this one. I know I should have just left my friends behind at this rate but I'm the kinda person that likes to clan with friends and be in events at the same time. Looks like I'm gonna miss out on getting the Ignis Wraith. Hell, I actually think the mission is fun, its just too bad I can't contribute more points than my "best score".

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Welcome to primed chamber 2.0 event, this time it is exclusive clan tech rewards.

The extortion the clans will do with such a rare good will be insane.

Good job DE at dividing the community instead of bringing an enjoyable experience of an event.

 

This trend is pretty bad, who ever is making these ideas needs to be moved away from the planning board.

Edited by kitsu
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I actually kind of like the new mission type, despite the fact that it's more of a combination of existing missions than something completely new. Once the pace starts picking up and the enemies get harder, I think it's kind of fun and hectic.

However...the whole 1300 points in one run is a slap in the face for any solo player. Please make it cumulative instead! It would still be challenging and fair for those of us who are in solo or inactive clans. I understand that DE is trying to encourage clan members to work together and give the clan system more depth, which I'm all for, but it feels like they completely forgot their solo player base with this event. 

I'm not even sure at this point if the cosmetic items are even worth it. Never cared for the Harkonor set, and the wraiths aren't even re-colorable. I doubt I'll ever actually use them lol.

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37 minutes ago, Quickring_Gentlepuff said:

Today was the day that DE said F*** you solo clans

They said it to everyone.

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I don't get it.
I just don't understand why this event was made so grindy.
With Hema, you could sort of make the straight connection with platinum sales from the market.
(Though even there I argued it didn't make much sense even business-wise in the long topic.)
But here, plat will only indirectly be influenced, in the most toxic way possible (from greedy Warlords, what appropriate titles in hindsight).
This just smells of such spite and contempt.
Who made this?
You can't encourage Ignis Wraith sales from this, you're not even selling it on the market!
Why?
Why is this a thing?
Long escort missions, might be fun for a bit of a change of pace, but here requires immense grinding, which will only highlight the nature of escort missions.
Just doesn't add up to any kind of player satisfaction.
Some have argued again that maybe this is some indirect way of trying to ease up server load of all those inactive clans to force people to migrate to a few larger clans.
But even then it feels like such an evil manipulative move to make, breeding contempt and grudges amongst the players and towards the devs themselves.
No, it can't be such a short-sighted evil plot, just requires too much conspiratorial leaps to make and assuming the absolute worst of the devteam, and I refuse to do that yet.
If the devs needed server cleaning then I think they would have simply stated that they are getting bloated and require people to give up on some clans.
Or shift how clans are stored in servers.
But that leaves me still utterly mystified, why did this happen?

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4 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

And? The point is to get clans to work together. And that will never happen if there is no motivation. The issue with the Hema was not that it was a clan stretch goal, it was that the goal was absurdly way too high. 

And I don't find that to be the case here. There is nothing wrong with encouraging people to actually work together as a clan, something this game has been sorely lacking. At some point clans need to become more robust if Warframe is going to grow and thrive as a community. And if that is going to happen people need to be encouraged to participate more as a clan. I simply don't agree that we shouldn't have events where the goal involves the entire clan -- we will have even more soon with the Nemesis system, you might as well get used to it. 

I'm watching three clans dissolve right now. People are simply saying

5 hours ago, SkadiNyx said:

Well, I guess it's time for me to definitely say " Goodbye " to Warframe. I loved that game, but they're going in the wrong direction. First Hema, now this. 
I'm a member of a Shadow Clan. We're 11 in total ( Friends and friends of friends ), but most of us play Warframe for fun, from time to time. We can spend a month playing every day, or connect only once a week to check Baro's stuff. We still got every research in the Dojo except Hema ( But it would've been a matter of time. A long time, but still. ), we even managed to farm all the pigments with only two active players. We decorated the Dojo, and put a lot of effort into it.
At this moment, everyone got bored. No one is actively playing. What are my solutions to get the Ignis Wraith ? 

- Farm everything alone, or with my only friend who's still kinda active ( Not possible, even for the lowest reward ).
- Ask my Clan Master to remove one of his friends from the Clan, to downgrade to a Ghost Clan ( Not cool, and I'd still have to farm everything alone ).
- Force everyone to play for that event ( Again, not cool, people have a life, and the right to not be forced to play ).
- Leave my Clan to find another one ( I've put a lot of effort in my Clan, there's no way I'm leaving it ). 

That's right. There's no solution
I'm sad that " Make Clans great again " just became " You have to be in an efficient Clan to access the content ". This is a game. Not a job.

And both of these are communities of tight-nit friends. They play multiple games together. They're not abandoning their friendships-- they're abandoning Warframe.

 

I'm not putting any more money into a game where the friendships I make are likely to dissolve at a moments notice because the developers continue to make decisions like Hema and Ignis Wraith.

 

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well....screw this event...my clan doesnt play due to horrible mistakes and this is just another reason NOT to play...i LIKE the idea, but maybe you should NOT do something like this again....in my ghost clan of 10 players I am the only one active....,meaning i will not get this ignis weapon unlike previous event weapon in the past that were pug or soloable.

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6 minutes ago, Maziani said:

I'm watching three clans dissolve right now. People are simply saying

And both of these are communities of tight-nit friends. They play multiple games together. They're not abandoning their friendships-- they're abandoning Warframe.

 

I'm not putting any more money into a game where the friendships I make are likely to dissolve at a moments notice because the developers continue to make decisions like Hema and Ignis Wraith.

 

I have to agree there. This is like when DE forced conclave events. Forcing things like this only DIVIDES the community. I hate it when some people try to defend such a half.... well, it was poorly thought out, and all it is doing is dividing the community.

@Tesseract7777 What are you going to do about the 10% of clans that begin extorting new people and those who failed this event because they were in a solo clan or the only active member in their clan. Hema already had some extortions, but since you can buy that in the market, it was not so bad. Ignis wraith though is like primed chamber, limited, won't be given to any more clans, and those that have it can charge what ever price they want.

 

THIS EVENT IS DIVIDING THE COMMUNITY. I swear, who ever is planning these events and tactical alerts for the past 3-4 months needs to be fired. This is not unifying the warframe community at all.

Edited by kitsu
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Why not doing cumulative points but " best score" ?...

You can even increase numbers. But at least this way players will see that they are helping clan.

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My best guess ? probably their player base just knocked out, so this event's job is to push those numbers ? But i'd guess it's kinda backfire. I'm no stranger to Grinding, but Torture ? maaaaaan, you cold. Though it's possible, I guess I don't want to sit in front of my computer for hours doing this mission single handedly only for a single weapon :/

Though probably I'd still do it just for fun, probably those numbers I'd gotten to extraction help me someday. Y' know, The Enemies of My Enemies is My Friend. (here's hoping....)

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54 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

Why would they make it available later? The 3rd reward tier is a "trophy" they wouldn't trample on it. I.E. unlocking the Ignis Wraith in clan tech.

Er Strun Wrath, Latron Wraith, Snipertron Vandal, Quanta Vandal etc etc ... all available post event through trader or alternative parts sources. This will be no different.

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18 minutes ago, kitsu said:

THIS EVENT IS DIVIDING THE COMMUNITY. I swear, who ever is planning these events and tactical alerts for the past 3-4 months needs to be fired. This is not unifying the warframe community at all.

If the person who has responsibility is someone in devstream, he/she can't be fired, but someone might "cast a stone" to him/her at MAR 3 @ 2 PM. 

Edited by Ta10S

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3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Edit: This is my post to all of you, because I think some people are not seeing the forest for the trees right now. 

I understand why people are upset. I really do. But I also feel like Warframe is at a crossroads. 

I understand that the big reason a lot of people don't like this is for a long time they have been allowed to basically run clans with an incredibly tiny number of active users. People who rarely play. And this has been allowed to go on for a long time. 

People are understandably upset because they are USED to being able to do this for a long time. I understand that. 

BUT. Here's the thing. At some point we have to consider the fact that Warframe probably is declining its userbase a little. This happens with any game that has been around for some time, and Warframe has had a lot of publicity on Steam for a number of years. DE's plan, and this started with the Hema (which I massively disagreed with them on and still do btw), has been to make participation in clans more active. The writing has been on the wall for some time. Personally I am resigned to it at this point. 

.

.

.

I think the issue that needs to always be considered though is, what is the actual number? I haven't done all the math on this yet, I am not sure what the final numbers are and maybe someone else can do the math for me. For me the problem with the Hema was that the cost was simply WAY too high. It wasn't just a clan goal, it felt like an actual job, just for one, single weapon. 

.

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Second edit: 

If someone can prove to me that the actual numbers being requested are totally unreasonable, and show me the math per person and why it is horribly unreasonable (similar to the Hema) I would absolutely agree that it needs to be way toned down/is too high. 

But I think disagreeing with the very concept of having group clan goals in a game that is designed to be cooperative doesn't really make sense, and it seems some people are against the entire concept no matter what the actual numbers are that we are being asked to reach. 

  1. I started in the last 100 days. I don't have the years of history that people are relying on to form an opinion. I am coming at this with fresh eyes. I see the good and the bad without historical bias.
  2. If the game is in decline, enticing people like me to remain is good for Warframe. Similarly, pushing people like me (new players) away is bad for the game. Q.E.D.
  3. I actively badmouth Warframe to my friends at this point, despite playing. I encourage people to find other games and warn them that while the game is fun, the Devs are actively increasing the grind in the game and seem intent on increasing it still further-- this event gave new fuel to my feelings on the matter.
  4. Actual numbers per posted on page 4
7 hours ago, Paketmonster said:

That is exactly the feeling i got from seeing this.

As a MR 22 who already spend 30 mins playing the new mission type i can tell you its just unbalanced and not even slightly possible for Tennos beneath MR 10 to play this in endless mode. Also this mission type is just a big boring hoax trying to force players to play in tryhard clans in order to waste their time. I mean the group i was in (MR22+MR20+MR4+MR7) was able to rescue 40 of those pacifist idiots in 30 mins. All in all a player is forced to rescue 700 pacifists in the most boring type of mission i can ever imagine which brings the above average tenno to a full grinding time of 525 minutes (8hours and 45 mins) and i didn`t sum up the extra time for stronger enemys when going over to the 3rd mission which takes most of the time because you gotta grind the highest number of points here.

 

Has nobody ever thought of picking up a freaggin calculator even once?

My highest point count so far is 184 points. Knowing that my clan which has two active people and three semi active people and 3 inactive people, my clan is going to have to grind 650 points per active person or beg or browbeat people into playing the content within the next week in hopes of even coming close to just getting the blueprint at the end of the event.

Completely leaving aside the fact that the first few rounds are 3-5 Kavor, before you get to the 8 per round at later cycles, it's still going to cost you about 5 minutes per 'wave' of Kavor. 650 points divided by 4 = 163 Kavor divided by 8 = 20 rounds times 5 minutes per round = 100 minutes. Tack on that omitted lead time while you're doing A-waves, A-B-waves before you actually get to A-B-C waves, and let's call it 20 minutes for four waves of A,A,A-B,A-B and you get 120 minutes.

Two hours of sitting in front of the screen, no break.

If you lose any, it may take additional rounds. If your team fails to get to the necessary 163 rescued, then you have to do it again, and again, until you succeed (since only top score counts for clan rewards.)

If we simply say that it takes 3.5 attempts by all players (and heck, you need 2k cumulative points anyway)-- and if each failed attempt managed at least 80% of the goal-- 80% of 120 minutes time 2.5 is 240 minutes (4 hours in 3 sessions) plus the 2 hour session that actually succeeds-- and if you're not that great, or do not have a great team supporting you, you could look forward to much much longer grind times (and possibly still fail.)

 

That's not casual at all.

 

DE isn't so stupid that they cannot do this math themselves.

The fact that they continue to put these things in the game says they don't care about individual players.

Individual players who may have spent a lot of plat building out a solo dojo.

Plat which was likely paid for with real money-- either out of that player's pocket or indirectly from someone else who purchased plat.

 

What I see is a company that really doesn't understand economics or sociology making some pretty meaningful changes to their game and getting ready to reap the whirlwind.

 

My purchases are on hold.

From the history that DE professes to have experienced, I would have thought they would have been more receptive to community feedback by now.

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2 minutes ago, Ta10S said:

If the person who has responsibility is someone in devstream, he/she can't be fired, but someone might "cast a stone" to him/her at MAR 3 @ 2 PM. 

I hope the dev stream does not become a ban happy event. If they just ban everyone that has a negative opinion of what this event has caused, that's it. Warframe is over. They shot their precious game in the heart and lost the good will of the players.

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3 hours ago, Metsudo said:

There's no valid reason for them do go down this route with trying to make clans "more active". The problem is that clans are just used for research atm. Adding event participation requirements is not the right way to fix it. The work needs to be done not in events, but in general game play.

Examples:

Clan launched lobbies with bonuses for playing as a clan

Target ranges with custom challenges to compete in

Clan only raids with clan rewards (decor etc)

Clan unique missions, possibly smuggling for darvo as 1 idea, or recon for lotus with multi objective type missions

Clan outreach, where your clan can help collect materials in special missions for other new clans to help with there research/building etc

 

Stuff like that is whats needed, even if they continue down their current route to try and force clans to grind more active members, its only going to last the length of the event, then it will all drop to the low levels it was and will stagnate. Hell, i just picked out those examples out of the top of my head. If they actually took some time to do it properly, there could be lots of clan specific in game events to do.

The point is, if they want to really sort out player clans they need to do it properly, from the ground up. Instead, they are trying to half arse it, and that often never works out well.

^^ this

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