4K UI Support

[(PSN)SIVISA]

7 hours ago, Sean said:

 

You can't play the game without the UI, and that is where the majority of the issues lie.

Most can with certain mission types. Defense Interception etc. There are some visual cues in other mission types like follow enemy bread crumb trails. I guess I played game without HUD for so long I've familiarized myself with most tile sets. It does encourage exploration though to have HUD off. Lol

I understand how others may not be able to do so with the current state of HUDless play, so I've edited my post. It was always meant to be directed at DE as an avenue to explore. I want to look forward to the next console update after all. Heh.

Thanks for the helpful input Sean. I guess if not for the current state of the game you found UI and HUD ideal?

 

 

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, polarity said:

Here's a suggestion:

When people have resolutions that are double the width and height of regular 1920x1080 HD, just double the scale of the existing UI to fit.  It's not a remotely GPU intensive process to do scaling of that type, especially because you don't need to update the UI on every frame update.  That way 4k users will get exactly the same UI experience that regular HD users have, without having to over-complicate and ultimately break things, or go to the trouble of redesigning the whole UI, while trying to find a way to scale it down without losing detail.

Who the hell puts so much detail into UI elements that they look any crisper on a 4K display anyway?  That's time that can be better spent on more pressing issues, that affect far more users.

Here's the thing: that's what DE did and what no one likes.

People invested into large resolution monitors to see more content, not see the exact same content just bigger.

A 4K resolution should be able to display twice as much as a 1080p resolution, not display the exact same amount of information just in a horribly bloated and blown up mess.

Thing is that most 4K users don't want "exactly the same UI experience that regular HD users have".  We want more screen space with a slightly less cramped screen so we can see more, such as viewing more items in the alert list at once instead of being limited to 5 massively bloated items we should be able to see 7-10 because we have the screen real-estate to see it.

With a 4K resolution there is no good reason what-so-ever that I should have to scroll the menu options the exact same amount that someone on a 900p resolution does, and yet I do because DE just decided to upscale the 900p resolution and keep the menu-size to screen-ratio exactly the same.

And a final thing: You do know that the people who work on the UI are different than the people who work on other bugs and "more pressing issues", right?  Therefore nothing should be lost by them improving things for various resolutions.
Or do you think that the people who fix the mission bugs, and AI, or who generate more content drop everything to work on the UI?

24 minutes ago, (PS4)SIVISA said:

Most can with certain mission types. Defense Interception etc. There are some visual cues in other mission types like follow enemy bread crumb trails. I guess I played game without HUD for so long I've familiarized myself with most tile sets. It does encourage exploration though to have HUD off. Lol

I understand how others may not be able to do so with the current state of HUDless play, so I've edited my post. It was always meant to be directed at DE as an avenue to explore. I want to look forward to the next console update after all. Heh.

Thanks for the helpful input Sean. I guess if not for the current state of the game you found UI and HUD ideal?

The thing is that it isn't just the HUD.

Its the menus that you need to access, such as the starchart UI, the focus trees, the market, and other places that you can't avoid.

Due to the advanced HUD scaling controls most users (though not all as some peoples HUDs are just way too big and takes up 90% of their screen) aren't having trouble with the HUD.
They are having problems with how stupidly massive the gear wheel is, the emote wheel, the reward selection, the continue/leave selection screen, the starchart UI and pretty much every other menu.

Those are things that you can't avoid unless you just decide to not play the game.
The general game UI can't just be ignored and 'turned off' like the HUD can, and good luck trying to play any game without using any UI what-so-ever to do so.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Sean]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)SIVISA said:

Most can with certain mission types. Defense Interception etc. There are some visual cues in other mission types like follow enemy bread crumb trails. I guess I played game without HUD for so long I've familiarized myself with most tile sets. It does encourage exploration though to have HUD off. Lol

I understand how others may not be able to do so with the current state of HUDless play, so I've edited my post. It was always meant to be directed at DE as an avenue to explore. I want to look forward to the next console update after all. Heh.

Thanks for the helpful input Sean. I guess if not for the current state of the game you found UI and HUD ideal?

 

 

I'm saying the UI itself, not the HUD.

So menus, boosters, defense round screen, planet selection, etc.

All of that is where the issue is.

 

The area that you are saying can be turned off is not where the majority of the problems are with this bug.

[(PSN)SIVISA]

My post focused on the complaints I read about HUD and clutter. As for the UI, even DeSteve and other Devs have commented on how outdated flash UI is. If it hasn't been altered it's because it's not an easy fix, which is unfortunate. They are aware. If not they certainly are now. 

As for the UI, unfortunately it's the nature of the beast, at least the beast that is Warframe. They don't have years to develop these updates. They only have weeks. I'm currently playing Mass Effect Andromeda and it has its share of bugs and it had years of development time. Ironically, Mass Effect is probably one of the reasons this update was put out there so... unpolished... ahem. Competition is fierce in the gaming industry. Especially with the ADD that runs rampant with many gamers. They have to get it out there or there's no profit. It's the current business practice. Nothing is perfect before release. Give them time. They eventually do right by most. I'm just hoping they do right by me and give me functional HUDless play back. Lol

That being said... I usually envy PC Warframe gamers... but not today.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)SIVISA said:

Give them time.

They took one and a half years to add an option to downsize your clan, a piece of functionality that should have been part of the initial release. With something as integral as the UI, visual elements you see literally all the time while playing the game, you cannot expect players to provide the dev with the same amount of patience. The initiative for 4k support was never a big demand by the community but a came from the dev(most prominently Steve), which reduces players' willingness to wait for.... what exactly further? A rollback? A fix? A new UI? No, this part of the update was a bust and should not have been released with the knowledge that it would decrease the UI quality for everyone but a tiny percentage of players.

Not to put on my tinfoil hat here, but you know what the change to an oversized, blurry UI reminds me of? Console design. I'm sure sitting 6 feet away from a large screen this "improved" UI doesn't look nearly as bad as on a desktop screen up close.

[polarity]

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Here's the thing: that's what DE did and what no one likes.

No it's not.

There's a world of difference between allowing UI elements to remain at a fixed pixel size, until at higher resolutions they become so small that they are unreadable, and you then double the scale to make them readable (what I described), and scaling by arbitrary amounts dependent on target resolution, so that UI elements remain at a fixed screen space size (What DE have done).

What no-one likes is that the fixed-screen-space size they've chosen is more appropriate for a 10 foot UI, as would be used in a couch + TV scenario where a bigger screen takes up a smaller portion of your field of view, instead of a 2 foot UI appropriate for desktop PCs, where a smaller screen occupies a larger field of view (I'm sick of the PC version of this game having its UI crippled for the sake of the console version).

Quote

People invested into large resolution monitors to see more content, not see the exact same content just bigger.

A 4K resolution should be able to display twice as much as a 1080p resolution, not display the exact same amount of information just in a horribly bloated and blown up mess.

And what use is twice as much content, if it is half the size and either unreadable, too small to clearly display status changes, or interact with using a mouse?  Twice as much content with half as much clarity is no improvement at all.

Quote

Thing is that most 4K users don't want "exactly the same UI experience that regular HD users have".

I'm sure they want text on their screen to be readable, status icons to be big enough to notice, and buttons to be big enough to click on reliably.

Quote

We want more screen space with a slightly less cramped screen so we can see more, such as viewing more items in the alert list at once instead of being limited to 5 massively bloated items we should be able to see 7-10 because we have the screen real-estate to see it.

And you're not going to get any more screen space by increasing resolution alone.  As I have already said, all you will get more information at a smaller size.  If you want more screen space, ten you get a monitor with a larger screen, and a higher resolution.

Quote

With a 4K resolution there is no good reason what-so-ever that I should have to scroll the menu options the exact same amount that someone on a 900p resolution does, and yet I do because DE just decided to upscale the 900p resolution and keep the menu-size to screen-ratio exactly the same.

The reason is because it would take a properly implemented UI API to handle scaling of content to fit arbitrary resolutions, capable of taking into consideration resolution, pixel DPI, text or other UI element sizes, and calculating how to tile that into the available space.

That's quite the technical challenge if you aren't using an existing system built for that purpose, or are but aren't able to make full use of it.

DE's solution is a much simpler 'One size fits all' solution, that has far less technical requirements.  Unfortunately it looks like design for consoles has negatively affected the PC version yet again.

Quote

And a final thing: You do know that the people who work on the UI are different than the people who work on other bugs and "more pressing issues", right?  Therefore nothing should be lost by them improving things for various resolutions.
Or do you think that the people who fix the mission bugs, and AI, or who generate more content drop everything to work on the UI?

I'm fully aware, considering that UI design is my field of focus within a very broad understanding of game development, gained through decades of study.

Because of that I could list several areas of UI design improvement that would benefit the entire player base, instead of just the few who play at 4K (I could spend at least a month working on Trade Chat alone).

I also know that UI improvements are not something that many studios actually do, because the people who would be capable of making them are far more likely to be put to work on the UI for an endless workload of new features, rather than be permitted to fix problems with the existing ones.  That's exactly the kind of attitude that results in 'fixes' not getting the attention they deserve, and introducing other issues, as is evident in this case.

Personally I'd much rather work for a developer like CCP, which has a dedicated team outside of the control of other departments, for making improvements and fixing existing issues, and who are given enough autonomy that they can work on projects with such scope, that they end up becoming something that can be promoted as features anyway (some of the most well received devblog posts for EVE Online were under the heading 'Little Things' where a huge list of upcoming small fixes and improvements, requested by the community, were outlined.  It showed the players that the devs not only listened, but cared enough to act).

Edited March 27, 2017 by polarity

[DedSecV]

Hey Tennos,

after U20 my UI and HUD is ab bit too big. No setting can fix this.

My resolution is 2560x1080 21:9 ratio 60Hz running in borderless fullscreen.

Never had this before.

Here is a picture of interception extraktion screen which was before at least 1.5x smaller:

Does anyone has the same problem?

[Airwolfen]

General bug since the update.

[MrZeeck]

Yeah, they messed up the HUD scale when they experimented with 4k res, and they have not announced when or even if it'll get fixed

[AEP8FlyBoy]

They fixed the UI too much in my opinion, for the support of a very small percentage of us.
Would've been way easier to set up the scale of the UI based on the in-game resolution setting. 3840x2160 would definitely need it this big, but for us 1080p players... not so much.

[Rainofgod]

40 minutes ago, polarity said:

snip

wait, so using icons which have a set nubmer of pixels, become unclear at a bigger resolution, OI though it was twice as much content twice as small, but the same clairty or am I worng..

[Sean]

1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Not to put on my tinfoil hat here, but you know what the change to an oversized, blurry UI reminds me of? Console design. I'm sure sitting 6 feet away from a large screen this "improved" UI doesn't look nearly as bad as on a desktop screen up close.

 

I sit 6-8ft away from my monitor (everything wireless + couch) and it STILL looks terrible with a resolution of 2560x1440.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Sean

[demented]

1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

(...)

Not to put on my tinfoil hat here, but you know what the change to an oversized, blurry UI reminds me of? Console design. I'm sure sitting 6 feet away from a large screen this "improved" UI doesn't look nearly as bad as on a desktop screen up close.

Good call. I would not be surprised if this was for some kind of eventual "console parity".

[Zahnny]

[ChameleonBro]

I ain't a big fan of it but it makes my game run a lot smoother with a lot less lag (laptop potato user here). So ey, as long as my game runs with more FPS I am fine with it xD

[-cS-dalonico]

16 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

You must be new around here.

do you ever post anything of use? ofc i kno they even pretend to keep saying the game is in beta. but this kind of minuscle crap is something even Them can do right at first attempt.

 

[-cS-dalonico]

5 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said:

I ain't a big fan of it but it makes my game run a lot smoother with a lot less lag (laptop potato user here). So ey, as long as my game runs with more FPS I am fine with it xD

this thing has No impact at all on performance. it just looks fugly as if you were running like an 800x600 res. but you should be running the normal resolution u had b4 anyway

[-cS-dalonico]

18 hours ago, TheSapphireDragon said:

For a 3440x144 these are what some of the changes look like:

Before 

It

After [.img]

Galaxy Map After

It might not be easy to see, but if you look at the "Select mode, Load out Options, Exit' buttons, you can see they have gotten about 2.5 times bigger. Now if you look at the galaxy map, the missions tab has done the same (sorry no before picture of that one), so you can only fir 5 missions instead 9. It feels bloated and uncomfortable to use.

I agree it looks super sh!tty even for you high res. dudes... this change was definitely a rush or something that didnt even get through "beta testing" 

[Feuershark]

It doesn't look THAT bad ... not like Nova Asuri's joints

[(PSN)SIVISA]

5 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

They took one and a half years to add an option to downsize your clan, a piece of functionality that should have been part of the initial release. With something as integral as the UI, visual elements you see literally all the time while playing the game, you cannot expect players to provide the dev with the same amount of patience. The initiative for 4k support was never a big demand by the community but a came from the dev(most prominently Steve), which reduces players' willingness to wait for.... what exactly further? A rollback? A fix? A new UI? No, this part of the update was a bust and should not have been released with the knowledge that it would decrease the UI quality for everyone but a tiny percentage of players.

Not to put on my tinfoil hat here, but you know what the change to an oversized, blurry UI reminds me of? Console design. I'm sure sitting 6 feet away from a large screen this "improved" UI doesn't look nearly as bad as on a desktop screen up close.

Whether you choose to be patient or not makes no difference to them. It's their game. It's under their control... not yours, not mine.

They prioritize for the majority. If they've made the worst calls every time in the past, they would have gone belly up by now. Maybe they will after this one. You sure sound upset enough to tank them personally. This will get priority. How could it not? It won't take one and a half years. As for other features you mentioned, hindsight is 20/20. This is not to say I disagree with your point. Downsizing clan size just was not a priority for me. I definitely agree with the 4K point as I made it myself in my initial post. I  really don't think it was their intention to decrease the UI quality for the majority. That's just bad business. I think it's a case of Murphy's Law. 

As for the console remark... LMAO. Blurry is blurry in any resolution and on any monitor, PC or TV and is undesirable to me. If it makes you feel better to blame the console players... be my guest. Disregard this paragraph if I misinterpreted your remark. If I didn't misunderstand and they do make concessions for the console builds, I consider myself privileged to be given such tremendous consideration as a console player. The game started on PC sure, but it had to evolve and expand to continue.

For those PC players that have invested actual real world money into this game over the years... I feel for you. I get it. For those who haven't invested a dime... well I guess you get what you paid for. Maybe it's time to move on. Many gamers I know have. That's life. There are plenty of other games out there.

One final point... pretty soon the graphical difference between PC and console will be negligible. The human eye can only perceive so much. Enjoy the advantage while you have it. Nothing lasts forever.

[(PSN)SIVISA]

4 hours ago, Sean said:

 

I sit 6-8ft away from my monitor (everything wireless + couch) and it STILL looks terrible with a resolution of 2560x1440.

Case in point... Thanks again Sean. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by (PS4)SIVISA

[Maziani]

On 3/26/2017 at 9:12 AM, dons90 said:

Lol did you even read Pablo's reply on the previous page orrr.....

 

I read this

On 3/25/2017 at 5:50 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

An update, we got a couple pretty good leads on this, so unless disaster hits we'll have a solution later next week.

As an aside, looking through the thread, a few things like MR 3 test screen being broken, broken mod selling for credits, overlap on profile screen, and a couple more things that I saw in here are unrelated and will be fixed in the next update.

 

 

And this

On 3/24/2017 at 2:42 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

It's not the sort of thing that can be reverted, it's setup on each screen, so after it was setup any additional changes done to that screen would be combined into it. It's tangled in along with dozens and dozen of changes over the past few months

 

 

I guess you arrived at a different interpretation than I did based on the snark content of your reply.

[FlinttheImmortal]

On 2017-03-24 at 3:42 PM, [DE]Pablo said:

It's not the sort of thing that can be reverted, it's setup on each screen...

That's a real shame.

One thing you forgot to set up on each screen with the introduction of 4K - unless it has already been mentioned - was the scaling of the highlight border when selecting missions listed in the world state window.  The graphic got scaled up to 4K, but the highlight border did not - it only covers roughly the top half of the graphic for each mission.  Placing the cursor over the bottom half of a given mission will highlight the mission below it.

Might not be an issue with a 4K monitor, but I'm not on a 4K monitor.

Nor are a great many players.  I'd wager it is a majority who are not.

Food for thought.

[Deodus]

16 minutes ago, FlinttheImmortal said:

That's a real shame.

One thing you forgot to set up on each screen with the introduction of 4K - unless it has already been mentioned - was the scaling of the highlight border when selecting missions listed in the world state window.  The graphic got scaled up to 4K, but the highlight border did not - it only covers roughly the top half of the graphic for each mission.  Placing the cursor over the bottom half of a given mission will highlight the mission below it.

Might not be an issue with a 4K monitor, but I'm not on a 4K monitor.

Nor are a great many players.  I'd wager it is a majority who are not.

Food for thought.

+1

Reading text is now hurting my eyes (SO BLURRY) and tiring them quicker than I ever had to in Warframe and in any other game for that matter.

Please do something DE!

[BradKing]

On 26/03/2017 at 1:50 AM, [DE]Pablo said:

An update, we got a couple pretty good leads on this, so unless disaster hits we'll have a solution later next week.

As an aside, looking through the thread, a few things like MR 3 test screen being broken, broken mod selling for credits, overlap on profile screen, and a couple more things that I saw in here are unrelated and will be fixed in the next update.

I certainly hope so :/ I can't play for more than an hour on a night now, the UI hurts my eyes, gives me headaches and generally it feels like a huge step back.

I'm running 2560x1440 and I can't see rewards on invasions on the map, the HUD/menu UI is ludicrously huge, I find myself checking my settings every time I login since it feels so wrong :(