Warframe wide Conclave Tournement (DE Hosted)

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

I would like to see a full blown tournement planned out and executed to see who is the best. Rewards and prizes given out on the DE scale. 

[RagingGrizzly]

Please no.

[lukinu_u]

YES !

[-VM-Fawxco]

Most people don't really like conclave :s

[BansheePrime]

Could be fun. But people will cry that they're being forced into something they don't want to do even if the reward is one entire credit.

[Nazrethim]

Yeah, would be nice. Though I wonder how that would work. A clan-based thing maybe?

[-N7-Leonhart]

Won't work in WF. Everyone likes their tiny box of sand and they have allergy to anything akin to competition. You would think that all the anti-PvP rejects are joining WF instead....

[(XBOX)Tylers Legend]

Inb4 the nonpvpers scream NOOO!. Scared of getting destroyed.

I would love this, win or lose. Competition, I enjoy.

[Heckzu]

2 hours ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Please no.

It does no harm, nor does it affect you, so what's the problem? A tournament could help increase the Conclave player base.

2 hours ago, Fawxco said:

Most people don't really like conclave :s

How does that affect the idea of a tournament?

2 hours ago, maj.death said:

Could be fun. But people will cry that they're being forced into something they don't want to do even if the reward is one entire credit.

In a tournament, usually only the top winners earn rewards. There is no logical reasoning in claiming that you're forced to enter a competition because there's a reward.

2 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Won't work in WF. Everyone likes their tiny box of sand and they have allergy to anything akin to competition. You would think that all the anti-PvP rejects are joining WF instead....

What makes you think it wouldn't work? There are players who enjoy PvP as much as PvE, and players who are neutral to PvP.  The Conclave community is proof of that.

The only issues I see with an official tournament are:

• There would have to be an entry requirement, such as being Typhoon rank to avoid congesting the pool of players with people who have no experience
• Latency becomes an issue for matches with players from different regions
• The rewards have to be worthwhile (such as if Teshin's swords were a skin exclusive to tournaments)

[-MoonMoon]

now no good idea. pvp need some skill base tier, or good player in RC will play noobs and rek noob. watch pic please. player 1 moon not belong recruit skill tier.

Spoiler

no skill tiers = broken tournament. need fix for conclave be good for tournament (me opinion) => player 1 moon win recruit tournament. no competition for he

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tylers Legend said:

Inb4 the nonpvpers scream NOOO!. Scared of getting destroyed.

your late man. see comment 2

(sorry me bad englich)

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

15 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

I would like to see a full blown tournement planned out and executed to see who is the best. Rewards and prizes given out on the DE scale. 

Snipers

mios

daikyu

will win all the time.

[Nazrethim]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Snipers

mios

daikyu

will win all the time.

VS unskilled players, sure, but this tournament wouldn't be aimed to unskilled players (Rubico and SnipeVandal, Mios [on console] would have to be looked at though IMO.)

Edited March 5, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

15 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tylers Legend said:

Inb4 the nonpvpers scream NOOO!. Scared of getting destroyed.

I would love this, win or lose. Competition, I enjoy.

Of course there would have to be requirements. There are requirements for the rest of the quests we have to do in the game. 

Not everyone will join or has to join. 

Look at the relays. How many people were archwinged up enough to save the relays? 

We lost a majority of the relays and that is a pve event that has effected the map permanently or so far as I can see. 

This is just a pvp event with simply no effect on your pve game so all those who enjoy not facing harder challenge can remain over on pve side. This will be more like a pvp festival for those who do enjoy pvp. 

1. Spectator modes

2. DE caliber bracketing

3. DE level coverage

4. DE level prizes 

5. Plus I want to know who the biggest kids in the playground are in all platforms. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 3/5/2017 at 9:26 AM, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Snipers

mios

daikyu

will win all the time.

No, they would not. The guy who made this thread uses the penta in a way that makes it very hard to fight with a sniper or Daikyu. He made me rethink how I even used the weapon to begin with.

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

The greatest thing about conclave is the diversity of fight styles. 

If you have someone who uses an unorthodox weapon they can tip the entire tide of the battle all because the opposing person doesn't know how to fight it or fight it well as CFE Discord used me as an example. 

Conclave is exciting when you see two players of equal skill with their styles going head to head. I find it either fun to be in or fun to watch. 

A little while ago Caduceus Fawks Elite  (CFE) hosted a tournement and the matches were pretty exciting to watch. I saw great auto users, bow users, snipers, shotgun users, melee users, the works. It was a good tournement that showcased a great variety of play styles. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by (XB1)Aeries Vendetta

[(XBOX)Y0DA PRiME]

De can do it PvP 

One Rule no mods on no weapons or frame

[Stormdragon]

54 minutes ago, (Xbox One)LYCANPRiM3 said:

One Rule no mods on no weapons or frame

Modding is an important part of warframe as a whole, and since some weapons are balanced around the use of certain mods, there's no point on removing it unless you want those specific weapons to be removed as a choice since they would be worthless (daikyu and snipers say hi!)

[(XBOX)Y0DA PRiME]

17 minutes ago, -----LegioN----- said:

Modding is an important part of warframe as a whole, and since some weapons are balanced around the use of certain mods, there's no point on removing it unless you want those specific weapons to be removed as a choice since they would be worthless (daikyu and snipers say hi!)

I understand that but my point for saying that for a person like me i have all the mods for conclave and for those who dont it wouldnt be fair also it give us a challenge and braging rights to sau hey i won with no mods 

Edited March 10, 2017 by (XB1)LYCANPRiM3

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)LYCANPRiM3 said:

I understand that but my point for saying that for a person like me i have all the mods for conclave and for those who dont it wouldnt be fair also it give us a challenge and braging rights to sau hey i won with no mods 

I can't get behind the no mods part. The mods in conclave have actually a minimal impact on the overall gameplay for the high tier matches. I play against Desiring Light and it doesn't really matter what mods I have its going to hurt regardless if he catches me in the open or being complacent. Same holds for most matches with hard hitting 1 or 2 shot weapons. 

[Nazrethim]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)LYCANPRiM3 said:

I understand that but my point for saying that for a person like me i have all the mods for conclave and for those who dont it wouldnt be fair also it give us a challenge and braging rights to sau hey i won with no mods 

A tournament isn't something that's designed around newcomers. Having mods is okay because the target players (seasoned players who can stand to compete on a tournament) likely have all the necesary mods.

[AlphaSierraMike]

On 3/11/2017 at 9:00 AM, Nazrethim said:

A tournament isn't something that's designed around newcomers. Having mods is okay because the target players (seasoned players who can stand to compete on a tournament) likely have all the necesary mods.

Doesn't really change the fact that mods are a necessity, most of which are poorly justified or should've been innately placed on the weapon in the first place. For example, almost every weapon specific mod that's dropped via RNG, they're all advantage and no drawback.

Any competitive game worth a salt should not have a barrier of entry as arbitrary as a preexisting inventory that they player need to collect, something that does not reflect skill level. Any player that has the skill to compete should be able to join in regardless of play time.

And that's only if the game itself is good for having competitions.

 

• Game modes barely take into account of the mechanics in the game. Some CTC maps can be crossed within the time it takes to kill someone in terms of the actual game environment, as well abilities like Speed and Wormhole that makes it even faster. TDM forces every player to go close quarters to score points.
• Abilities are total cop outs. Combine that with slows and knockdown makes for a collection of deaths that the player can't do anything about.
• Movement in combination with the TTK, fixed spread, irregular hitboxes, and the amount of obstruction on maps make mistakes less punishing.
• Little to no emphasis on player positioning, the game might as well take place in a massive plateau.
• Everything about how the game play (Maps, game modes, mobility) makes close range the most/only viable style of play. Even sniper rifles are used mostly at a close medium range, at best. This is more of a personal woe, so take that as it is.
• The maps are fusterclucks that are there just to look pretty and have no proper flow. At speed, every sight line barely last enough to get a few shots off.
• Spawns are #*($%%@.
• Inconsistent TTK and EHP via IPS damage and mods that alter EHP, sometimes breaking slow fire rate weapons.
• Poor weapon balance that's focuses on its DPS rather than how it performs in game.
• Some weapons just doesn't fit into the PvP environment, ie every beam weapon.

One might say "then don't use it" or "then don't do that". So the game offers a variety of loadouts, but then is limited to a few loadouts just because they're innately better.... They might as well take everything out and limit us to a few selections then. Having variety in a game just means there's bound to be a bunch of optimal loadout that gives a middle finger to anyone that either chooses to or can't use it because they haven't put enough time in it for RNG to do its work.

They could actually balance the game and make every single combination viable in their own right, but that's borderline impossible.

The game is as much of a competitive game as Hearthstone. Sure it has a competitive scene and tournaments, but so does rock paper scissors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Rock_Paper_Scissors_League. Just because it can, doesn't mean it should. Sure as hell doesn't bode well with me when victory can be decided before the tournament is even announced, or a coin toss.

If someone were to list examples of the most popular games with a competitive scene, I'm sure that 90% of them will be games that a pro can make a new account and still stomp on others simply through knowledge and experience.

It's still possible to play for fun, don't get me wrong. But the game's not getting out of that casual circle as it is.

Edited March 12, 2017 by AlphaSierraMike

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

Doesn't really change the fact that mods are a necessity, most of which are poorly justified or should've been innately placed on the weapon in the first place. For example, almost every weapon specific mod that's dropped via RNG, they're all advantage and no drawback.

Well, yeah, for a tournament they could do similar to variants and make the mods buit in the weapons.

1 hour ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

Little to no emphasis on player positioning, the game might as well take place in a massive plateau.

That's only for guns (I'm studying that and thinking Aim glide and Latching may be responsible for that, as they allow the player to shoot regardless of terrain), Melee requires proper positioning, specially since half the maps lack melee-friendly terrain with gigantic open spaces that makes gunVmelee a win-lose scenario due to gunplayers having total aerial advantage, it's like a samurai trying to destroy and helicopter with the katana.

[AlphaSierraMike]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, yeah, for a tournament they could do similar to variants and make the mods buit in the weapons.

But why do they even need the mods in the first place? By themselves, they should be competitive weapons. And mods should be a give and take, not giving bonus damage/faster RoF for just landing shots or infinite ammo on headshot.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

That's only for guns (I'm studying that and thinking Aim glide and Latching may be responsible for that, as they allow the player to shoot regardless of terrain), Melee requires proper positioning, specially since half the maps lack melee-friendly terrain with gigantic open spaces that makes gunVmelee a win-lose scenario due to gunplayers having total aerial advantage, it's like a samurai trying to destroy and helicopter with the katana.

Of course, but really though, that should be expected from melee. It's not a primary or secondary. It's a limited range weapon with infinite use, in case everything goes empty. But even in a normal environment, there's so many doorways and narrow corridors, that stepping out in the open with only a melee weapon wouldn't be that punishing, as well as things that make closing distance that much easier to the point where I'm starting to think that the devs are trying to make melees viable as primaries, like blocking, reflecting damage, knockdown and staggers, the innate advantage of running towards the enemy against backing off a melee user.

At the same time, yeah, gun users have the absolute advantage over melee users in roofless environments, making positioning irrelevant. There's no "I have to keep a safe distance" when you only need to jump up to be safe. Meanwhile, melee users have the advantage over gun users on the ground (personal taste, I avoid bullet jumping and crouch strafing and rolling works well enough) because with warframe's mobility and the size of most pathways, there's no such thing as a place too far, as well as triggering staggers at will without the requirement for high ground.

Do the advantages of each cancel each other out? No. Because each of them are polar opposites that results in absolute domination on one side. One can't happen if the other one occurs. There's no middle ground.

It's safe to say that 3D movement makes everything more complicated to balance.

Hmmm, Metal Gear Rising. The nanos. The memes.

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

But why do they even need the mods in the first place? By themselves, they should be competitive weapons. And mods should be a give and take, not giving bonus damage/faster RoF for just landing shots or infinite ammo on headshot.

I was talking more about the pure bandaids: Relentless Assault (bandaid to offset melee energy sink) Sword Alone (attempt to bandaid melee mobility problems) Lie in Wait (bandaid to offset snipers lack of damage while scoped without making hipfire shotgunsniper a thing) etc.

1 minute ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

 as well as things that make closing distance that much easier to the point where I'm starting to think that the devs are trying to make melees viable as primaries, like blocking, reflecting damage, knockdown and staggers, the innate advantage of running towards the enemy against backing off a melee user.

They are trying, but it's a hell of a job. Now for specific aspects:

Blocking: it  was recently nerfed in angle, but not buffed in dmg reduction (they did reduce channel blocking cost to reasonable levels, but that still means you can't have effective melee combat without sacrifing ability usage)

Reflecting damage: that's only active for a few seconds when you are about to die, and only with a mod. It used to be a passive always active thing, but it was nerfed for no clear reason.

Knockdown&Stagger: those are fine mostly, only problem is that all stagger combos have windup. Since they are also the mobility/dashin combos, you can't really pull them off when you need them (an enemy player can jump away instantly, but you are forced to do 1 or 2 strikes before the dash combo goes off).

1 minute ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

At the same time, yeah, gun users have the absolute advantage over melee users in roofless environments, making positioning irrelevant. There's no "I have to keep a safe distance" when you only need to jump up to be safe. Meanwhile, melee users have the advantage over gun users on the ground (personal taste, I avoid bullet jumping and crouch strafing and rolling works well enough) because with warframe's mobility and the size of most pathways, there's no such thing as a place too far, as well as triggering staggers at will without the requirement for high ground.

Do the advantages of each cancel each other out? No. Because each of them are polar opposites that results in absolute domination on one side. One can't happen if the other one occurs. There's no middle ground.

Many consider melee to be overpowered because most weapons can oneshot you, but that's true for most guns too with low TTK. Melee NEEDS that damage to offset being rooted to the ground. A sort of fix would be to give Aerial attacks a stagger, they are fairly difficult to land anyway, so it would be a somewhat fair way to force an aerial player to the ground. Another thing are wall attacks, which happen every once in a while and make you a sitting duck, a fix would be give them Bulletjump momentum.

Another possibe fix could be making Aimglide and Wall latch deplete faster per shot, so high RoF weapons would have a hard time keeping on air without carefuly firing while leaving snipers and bows largely untouched as high risk high reward weapons.

Couple that with eliminating or reducing windup on melee combos and we could stand to reduce melee burst damage a bit (balanced for general TTK of course)

1 minute ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

It's safe to say that 3D movement makes everything more complicated to balance.

Hmmm, Metal Gear Rising. The nanos. The memes.

Yeah, though we have to admit DE is doing a damn fine job balancing WF PvP, they still need to review Psychic Bolts though.

[Evanescent]

As long as rewards aren't PvE things or cosmetics, sure go ahead.

Edit: derped, cosmetics are fine.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Evanescent