The Pacifism Defect: Hotfix 19.12.2

[KichiK]

2 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said:

(I was sarcastically pointing how DE overestimated clans by showing that it's not even worth pushing far for a feeble profit with these high goal to reach)
but i guess my logic doesnt run on the same realm with others.

Okay so I wasn't imagining the support for the idea that these expectations are ridiculous. Good to know.

[Maziani]

23 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said:

The hardcore tier lowest score keeps rising anyway, and tbh it kinda worth it cuz fully built with potato and slot is better than just a bp anyway (i know research is for long term but in the end its just a bp), and by today, reaching victory tier also makes u reserve a spot in hardcore tier. which if things doesnt get really any higher, u get both prebuilt, potato'd and slot, and also research.

This is a fair point, but I feel like there is maybe a better choice for scaling rewards.

I think it would have been better if the rewards had been scaled as:

1. "Casual reward tier" - 260** clan points (scaled points to 1 participant for solo clans)
2. "Victory reward tier" - Top 50%** of scores between "Casual" and "Hardcore" reward gates (promotes competition, but easies the barrier to entry by removing all "hardcore" scores from consideration-- hardcores actually help others by exceeding next tier reward requirements and removing themselves from the mid-tier pool. This promotes harmony within the community)
3. "Hardcore reward tier" - Top 10%** of all scores (casuals bring down the average score, and thus more hardcores get the hardcore reward. Hardcores will probably be a little miffed at the reduced 'competitiveness' of this, but they're going to generally be pleased with getting the reward which will offset some of the angst about the reduced barrier to entry.)

** Adjust percentages according to data analysis of current play time habits. But specifically do the math-- break people into three groups, analyze their playstyles and play times--set the barrier to entry appropriate for the player tier you're trying to reward.

 

You could even give the top 3-10 hardcore clans a unique cosmetic reward-- I would say a clan emblem that can only be used while in the clan. If there is a casual emblem, have a hardcore variant. The game isn't about vertical progression, so the inability to get a weapon or mod shouldn't be a huge deal (and in fact, I haven't seen people posting huge complaints over rewards going 'vaulted' or being reduced availability outside of the event itself.)

It could also be special weapon or warframe skins (advanced access and for free, while the reward becomes available for sale 3-6 months later-- it could also be a slight variant of the skin where there is some kind of event branding on the skin built-in.)

But Fashion Frame is considered the end game. So some kind of variant cosmetic reward would be the ideal hardcore reward especially as it would not create a significant power difference between casuals and hardcore players.

[xxswatelitexx]

1 hour ago, PhrozenDragon said:

Nothing regarding how the Victory tier is nearly impossible for Mountain+ players?

 

Rip.

How is it impossible?
It is only 101 rescues ( 404 points ) for each individual person.

I personally managed to get a personal best score of 907 - 940.

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by xxswatelitexx

[KichiK]

2 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

How is it impossible?
It is only 101 rescues ( 404 points ) for each individual person.

I personally managed to get a personal best score of 907. 

 

It's impossible because especially with huge clans, there's a LOT of inactive members, and that's not accounting for active-but-casual or newer players. Just look at the leaderboards and tell me it's totally feasible again. http://content.warframe.com/dynamic/pacifismDefect.php

Edited March 6, 2017 by KichiK

[xxswatelitexx]

1 minute ago, KichiK said:

It's impossible because especially with huge clans, there's a LOT of inactive members, and that's not accounting for active-but-casual players.

Well you can always support my idea,

 

[KichiK]

see, that's really not a bad idea.....were Hardcore tier the problem. The problem is victory tier is supposed to be MORE feasible than hardcore tier, and that really wouldn't do much to change how impossible the victory tier is.

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, kpa732 said:

The op is almost over, and you're still fixing it?

Also, good to see we might stop getting oberon parts from manics.

Well, usually this kind of Operation is to test a new mission type before it gets added to the game permanently.  Also, it hasn't been deployed on consoles and given the limitations with patching there, they are probably taking the chance to squish all the bugs they can before they pay to send it to console certification.  Either way, half of something is better than all of nothing most of the time.  And at least now there's the chance Manics could drop something useful.

[Tesseract7777]

6 minutes ago, Maziani said:

-snip-

So the basis of your idea is that anything above the participation tier (the blueprint) would be based on where you lie in the overall percentages of clan scores (so Victory Tier would be similar to how Hardcore tier works, but with a much lower percentage gate)? 

I like this idea. This would ensure that it is based on clans competing as much as the average clan can be expected to compete (in other words wherever the average activity of the games clans currently are) instead of an arbitrary random number someone pulled out of a hat. 

[Maziani]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

So the basis of your idea is that anything above the participation tier (the blueprint) would be based on where you lie in the overall percentages of clan scores (so Victory Tier would be similar to how Hardcore tier works, but with a much lower percentage gate)? 

I like this idea. This would ensure that it is based on clans competing as much as the average clan can be expected to compete (in other words wherever the average activity of the games clans currently are) instead of an arbitrary random number someone pulled out of a hat. 

Yes, you understand me perfectly.

Setting a static value ignores the potential failure to engage the player base-- dynamic percentage based barrier to entry (omitting anyone who doesn't even bother to participate) gives you much more reliable results, mathematically. Your bounding your results by actual play style.

 

The problem is that while it's a great idea, it would be even harder to explain than the current approach of static values and 'Top 10%' -- and so we're suck with rules that can be understood by the lowest common denominator.

 

However, it could be explained easily with an infographic and a UI (like the current webpage) that tells players easily whether or not they've passed and where the barrier has been moved to by player participation.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Maziani
Small expansion

[Rolunde]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Changes

• Improved performance of the Simulor.

 

And this means what exactly?

[KichiK]

1 minute ago, Maziani said:

Yes, you understand me perfectly.

Setting a static value ignores the potential failure to engage the player base-- dynamic percentage based barrier to entry (omitting anyone who doesn't even bother to participate) gives you much more reliable results, mathematically. Your bounding your results by actual play style.

 

The problem is that while it's a great idea, it would be even harder to explain than the current approach of static values and 'Top 10%' -- and so we're suck with rules that can be understood by the lowest common denominator.

I mean, that could be solved with the leaderboards, though. The already have the "10% threshold" number shown, and they could change it to show not only the "Current hardcore threshold," but the "current victory threshold" as well.

I'm still not too sure being a competitive thing even for just the basic victory tier is a good thing, to be honest, but it would still be notably better than what we have.

[Xsoskeleton]

Just now, KichiK said:

I mean, that could be solved with the leaderboards, though. The already have the "10% threshold" number shown, and they could change it to show not only the "Current hardcore threshold," but the "current victory threshold" as well.

I'm still not too sure being a competitive thing even for just the basic victory tier is a good thing, to be honest, but it would still be notably better than what we have.

They still need to make a reward which actually benefits clan instead of a hoarded personal needs, before attempting clan based competition.

[Tendou_Souji]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Fixed Equinox’s Agile and Noble stance not applying when holding a Bow.
•  

Thank you so much ^^

Still hoping for fixes for the following:

 

 Nidus Maggot explosions fx and benefit towards mutation stacks only affecting host

 

Need a fix for Saryn & Equinox missing certain throwing spear-gun animations

 

Mirage using kunai animations for single pistols.

 

Need a fix for Juggernaut's toxic clouds affecting players in the Rift.

 

Defectors in event not benefiting from heals from oxygen stations while banished.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Tendou_Souji

[Xsoskeleton]

1 minute ago, Tendou_Souji said:

Need a fix for Juggernaut's toxic clouds affecting players in the Rift.

Defectors in event not benefiting from heals from oxygen stations while banished.

I think i know how these happened:
Juggernaut's toxic cloud is counted as skill, like same tier as frame skill, and we do know frame skills works through rift pane.
Defectors not benefiting from heal station is like how within cataclysm or when banished u cant access surrounding accessible stuff, like datamass, or enemies cant attack a mobdef console within cataclysm sometimes.

[SKTwenty]

Still no fix for Repelling Bastille not working against infested.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Vauban’s Bastille and Vortex lingering in tiles after players have left said tile.This resulted in enemies continually being damaged or immobile even after the ability ended.

@[DE]Megan  Wait, does this mean it dispels the ability when you leave the tile?  Does it make it simply stop working for any tiles you're not on?  Does it just fix the bug?  It would be pretty absurd to have a 30 second bastille that wasn't doing anything just because you're not in the right room.

[djtotato]

have been using ignis wraith for 2 days

love the victory feel

its like buying prime pass instead of farming for it

you have access before anyone else does. and thats why victory tier requires clans have better management and really work together

[-Kryptyk-]

so now a script will be run that will reset all the players who used the vauban strat, right?  because now the scoring is going to be COMPLETELY unfair .... 

[Xsoskeleton]

Just now, djtotato said:

have been using ignis wraith for 2 days

love the victory feel

its like buying prime pass instead of farming for it

you have access before anyone else does. and thats why victory tier requires clans have better management and really work together

by the end its just early access, ppl who reserved spot in the participant tier could just add 32p on top of that and get the same result.

[Xsoskeleton]

Just now, -NvO-Venom said:

so now a script will be run that will reset all the players who used the vauban strat, right?  because now the scoring is going to be COMPLETELY unfair .... 

Doubt.

[Kratzwerk]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

RIP Booben

Bragging with exploits is disgusting. I feel sorry for you.

[djtotato]

Just now, Xsoskeleton said:

by the end its just early access, ppl who reserved spot in the participant tier could just add 32p on top of that and get the same result.

exactly.

and victory tier rewards the whole clan, i assume 95%+ players are in a clan. it cant be as easy as participate tier otherwise the event is dead already by now

[-Kryptyk-]

2 minutes ago, Kratzwerk said:

Bragging with exploits is disgusting. I feel sorry for you.

and yet the only way to counter someone who exploits is by exploiting in this case.  now that it's patched, those high scores are most likely going to be locked in place.  no way I'm going for a 12k run with a basic setup.

[Xsoskeleton]

i guess if my clan somehow stayed in the 10%, might invite ppl to take the ignis research once in a while :v

[Kanaima]

16 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said:

They still need to make a reward which actually benefits clan instead of a hoarded personal needs, before attempting clan based competition.

For all we know when clan affinity becomes a thing, this research might be worth having just for that alone.