Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf

[Cornelius.EE]

1 hour ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Yup, I'm just not allowed to revive as Nyx anymore, I'm sure not gonna get killed for someone else while my energy gets stripped away.

 

I feel your pain. Although I mostly play with friends who are aware of my ability mechanics, public games a different beast altogether. And even careful and considerate teammates have little control over some forms of AOE damage.

[Treebiter]

How is this not (un)fixed yet?

seems my faith in DE was misplaced as I was certain this was a no brainer. Taking a break from the game. Hopefully it'll be back to how it should be when I return.

[Metsudo]

Nyx can't use self damage to add to absorb. Letting team mates be able to while she can't is kind of a stupid idea. You used to be able to charge your own absorb in the past if I recall, until DE decided to remove it. Removing it to only later allow other players to charge it is a massive step backward. As others have pointed out, it also opens her up to massive amounts of potential trolling. All in all, the change was a terrible idea.

[Gamma745]

Good news guys, Nyx is getting looked at. From Devstream 90:

Other Warframe Changes

• Nyx: Discussion has been going on in regards to the Assimilate change. A possible side-grade might be coming instead of a direct reversal of recent changes.

Let's see what that entail for us.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

2 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

Good news guys, Nyx is getting looked at. From Devstream 90:

Other Warframe Changes

• Nyx: Discussion has been going on in regards to the Assimilate change. A possible side-grade might be coming instead of a direct reversal of recent changes.

Let's see what that entail for us.

From what I've been hearing through hearsay from friends and some peeps in the community, apparently the Nyx Assimilate change brought some heated debates in the DE offices. Not only is it a vocal battle on the forums on what should be done with Assimilate and/or Absorb, it seems like one beyond our field of view at DE as well.

Honestly, there's no question that Assimilate shouldn't settle as low as a sidegrade. It should be slightly if not much more than that. Who knows what that can become? What if the friendly fire energy drain will still be in effect for some buff that we care very little about? We just want our build variant(s) to craft a *tanky* Nyx back.

Based on DE's track record on changes, hopeful is the belief but the reality is more dooming. Where adjustments have some minor yet significant downsides if we're not careful in being vocal about it. What I'm saying is:

"We were comfortable with Nyx's Assimilate augment that fulfilled a tank role to Nyx's Absorb on activation, that only absorbed enemy attack damage with no regards to friendly fire damage due to the intrinsic mechanics tied to damage accrued converted into amount energy drained. The recent changes to the Assimilate augment where Absorb's intrinsic mechanics of damage accrued converted to amount energy drained reflective to both friendly and enemy fire became a primary detriment to the augment itself and narrowing Nyx's build diversity from her unique concept as a 'tank' and regressed her down to a caster frame with risk-management survivability.

Assimilate as an augment already carries a fair trade-off when adjusting the inherent design for Absorb: It's effective range is halved with a massive decrease and restriction to movement and movement speed for the free use of Nyx's other abilities and/or weapons at her disposal. Projecting and imposing Absorb's core design of absorbing damage to reflect back to enemies with regards to energy drain on damage accrued for both friendly and enemy damage onto the augment Assimilate was an ill-thought and counterproductive action for Nyx players wanting to use it. Considering this is horde game where movement and multi-layered attacks on the field is a key component to combat, the augment's ability to freely use other powers and weapons while in Absorb becomes irrelevant when both enemy and [mostly] friendly fire damage will most likely drain Nyx's energy pool in a matter of seconds to effectively invalidate the augment's benefits while also putting Nyx players at risk of dying for having no energy to readjust their environment CC-wise nor any options  for survivability with certain mods.

With regards to the discussion of adjusting Nyx's Assimilate as a 'sidegrade,' we deeply, deeply implore to you DE that the augment should not be adjusted in such a way that though the augment's effective range is halved that absorbed damage should be 'buffed.' (Covering bases here.) As mentioned above, we were comfortable and we want Nyx to fulfill her role as a tank frame again with her Assimilate augment prior to the change that made it reflect similar core mechanics from Absorb on enemy and friendly fire damage accrued/tied to energy drain. We don't want Assimilate to behave like base Absorb. We don't want to deal with friendly fire sapping our energy reserves. We want to CC and tank like we used to prior to the change to the augment, and we certainly don't want to see any 'sidegrade' that retains the friendly fire concept masked behind a 'supposed buff' that we never asked for nor want to if it meant shirking the imperative to survive for ourselves and our teammates in the heat of battle."

I think I've said my peace.

Edited April 14, 2017 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
grammatical corrections, further specified corrections.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Quote

Other Warframe Changes

Nyx: Discussion has been going on in regards to the Assimilate change. A possible side-grade might be coming instead of a direct reversal of recent changes.

Just to be clear with regards to my previous post, I think we should all be paranoid by the term "side-grade" within the context of this quote, as it sounds like it primarily discusses the concept of Assimilate still retaining the friendly fire mechanic from Absorb. This is especially so when stated that a direct reversal of the aforementioned change (friendly fire damage affective in Assimilate) will not be implemented. This entire thread is a discussion on how friendly fire on Assimilate, even base Absorb, is terrible game design in a co-op environment. 

A side-grade that keeps the friendly fire concept for the augment is not a side-grade. Masking the problem with a buff of any kind to divert attention away from the problem is not a solution. Sugar-coating a pile of manure is still a pile of manure (excuse my language).

Edited April 14, 2017 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

From what I've been hearing through hearsay from friends and some peeps in the community, apparently the Nyx Assimilate change brought some heated debates in the DE offices. Not only is it a vocal battle on the forums on what should be done with Assimilate and/or Absorb, it seems like one beyond our field of view at DE as well.

That one shocked me as well in the Devstream.  It actually explains why we didn't get any comments directly from DE.  Seems the exact debate that be happening in the topic has been going on in the DE offices as well.  I wish I could have seen/heard some of that. 

[Jabarto]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

A side-grade that keeps the friendly fire concept for the augment is not a side-grade. Masking the problem with a buff of any kind to divert attention away from the problem is not a solution. Sugar-coating a pile of manure is still a pile of manure (excuse my language).

I am glad to see that they won't simply revert the augment fix. That would be a horrible idea that completely misses the point.

I also think this quote is completely true and a valid concern.

[tsubasakuroi]

Not terribly encouraging news.

Guess I'll just hope the revert crowd prevails at DE.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

For me it's a vary simple solution to Nyx and this debate, one of two things need to happen. Either:

A. Revert the "fix" so absorb and assimilate "ff" is removed completely.

OR

B. Rework Nyx completely 

That's it. 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Treebiter]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

For me it's a vary simple solution to Nyx and this debate, one of two things need to happen. Either:

A. Revert the "fix" so absorb and assimilate "ff" is removed completely.

OR

B. Rework Nyx completely 

That's it. 

 

Completely agree.

If they screw up the sidegrade, I'll let someone else start the next thread: 'The Assimilate fix, fix, has made things even nerfier'

[ChameleonBro]

Just now, Treebiter said:

Completely agree.

If they screw up the sidegrade, I'll let someone else start the next thread: 'The Assimilate fix, fix, has made things even nerfier'

I have a feeling that Nyx will get reworked in the future, but not before some frames like Hydroid or Oberon who are in a desperate need of a rework. I mainly think she will get a rework cause she is kinda like the old Limbo,  repeating some abilities in different formats and a useless ability. But they will first fix her augment.

[-dicht.Seleszi-]

Hopefully they'll just revert the change instead of ruining the augment

[HolySeraphin]

They even compared the discussions they are having as if Nyx casted the skill "chaos" on their office XD. They said there were even "rage quits" during discussions.

I just hope the situation goes from "chaotic" to an "inpirational bolt" leading to a good "assimilated" ability. Just don´t "mind control" the players with useless buff because after the effect expires they are either going to die or be against you.

 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

We just don't want friendly-fire draining our energy as Nyx performing Assimilate Absorb. There's no need to go Dungeons&Dragons rhetoric on this. It's a very simple problem that can be simply fixed.

What's conflicting is gameplay morality and "ethics" in a robot space ninja horde shooter involving infested tissue linking the minds of 1000+ year-old teenagers to bodysuits named "Warframes" fighting against hiveminded infested, ever-cloning Grineer, the greed ex-Orokin societal Corpus, and a mad corrupted perfect society known as the Orokin. Let alone we're being guided by an ex-world eater Sentient Space Mamma-jamma named the Lotus and a cold-blooded Thug Life space samurai named Tenshin, and we're being hunted by an obsessed edgelord Assassin Sentient by the names of Hunhow and Shadow Stalker whom we have tried attempt after attempt to put them on our "Do Not Call" list.

I think discussions of reality and the semblance of "balance" have been defenestrated quite some time ago.

Edited April 14, 2017 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Cornelius.EE]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:45 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Just to be clear with regards to my previous post, I think we should all be paranoid by the term "side-grade" within the context of this quote, as it sounds like it primarily discusses the concept of Assimilate still retaining the friendly fire mechanic from Absorb. This is especially so when stated that a direct reversal of the aforementioned change (friendly fire damage affective in Assimilate) will not be implemented. This entire thread is a discussion on how friendly fire on Assimilate, even base Absorb, is terrible game design in a co-op environment. 

A side-grade that keeps the friendly fire concept for the augment is not a side-grade. Masking the problem with a buff of any kind to divert attention away from the problem is not a solution. Sugar-coating a pile of manure is still a pile of manure (excuse my language).

I cannot agree more. Frankly, I am somewhat surprised that this has become in any way a big deal with the devs, since the solution seems pretty obvious and easy to implement. Unless they're considering a full rework of the ability, I can't see the justification for making things more complicated by keeping this "fix" and changing something else. The only reason it's a big deal for players is that they don't have the means to implement a solution even when the solution is obvious.

[POIKILO]

It's really not hard to get the main point of the concerns voiced here, yet DE seems to enjoy complicating matters for themselves. It's painfully obvious they implemented the "fix" to Assimilate without extensive testing on their part - an obnoxious and consistent trend of DE. What's even more baffling is their suggestion of the "side-grade," which in all honesty would probably raise more issues/bugs/complications than a simple reversal of the Assimilate nerf.

I don't know how everyone else feels and certainly can't speak for all of us, but the devs' response in their stream felt insulting. Almost everyone in this thread has unanimously agreed the Assimilate "fix" is detrimental to Nyx's gameplay, yet the devs failed to understand or listen to the feedback.Their attitude often comes off as "Oh, we've read your comments but we know better than the players so we're going to go ahead with our plans." Nyx isn't the first and sadly not the last aspect of the game that's come under this treatment.

[RiouHotaru]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:45 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Just to be clear with regards to my previous post, I think we should all be paranoid by the term "side-grade" within the context of this quote, as it sounds like it primarily discusses the concept of Assimilate still retaining the friendly fire mechanic from Absorb. This is especially so when stated that a direct reversal of the aforementioned change (friendly fire damage affective in Assimilate) will not be implemented. This entire thread is a discussion on how friendly fire on Assimilate, even base Absorb, is terrible game design in a co-op environment. 

A side-grade that keeps the friendly fire concept for the augment is not a side-grade. Masking the problem with a buff of any kind to divert attention away from the problem is not a solution. Sugar-coating a pile of manure is still a pile of manure (excuse my language).

The point of a "Side-grade" is to offer an alternative without making one a strictly superior option over the other.  As it stood, the pre-fix (and it IS a fix, don't call it a nerf when what it did was fix an obvious bug) Assimilate was, if this thread is to be believed, a strictly superior option because of the bug.  That you created entire builds around a bug doesn't change the fact it was a bug that altered the fundamental properties of Assimilate.

I could see them perhaps lowering the energy drain with regards to allied fire so that allied fire counts for "less" when calculating the absorbed damage.  Or something along those lines.

Besides, no other augment altered a power so radically before.  What made you think Assimilate wasn't going to get fixed eventually?

[POIKILO]

13 minutes ago, RiouHotaru said:

Besides, no other augment altered a power so radically before.  What made you think Assimilate wasn't going to get fixed eventually?

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, POIKILO said:

is this supposed to be an example? if so its a pretty bad one. assimilate aug allows you to move, shoot, be invulnerable, and use all other powers at the same time. no other augment in the entire game alters and ult in that way.

Edited April 15, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Mousarchy]

Okay first it WAS a bug fix that ended up as a nerf...(why people like abusing bugs so much is beyond me)
2nd it was SPOSE to be a nyx 4 that could move but be smaller it WASNT spose to be an immortal nyx.
3rd DE HAS mentioned that they are thinking of reverting the bug to be a legit thing (not the first time. speed nova was a bug as was loki switch teleport on allies) course they might as well just disable FF for both version of it so its part of nyx and not the mod.
/thread

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

5 hours ago, RiouHotaru said:

could see them perhaps lowering the energy drain with regards to allied fire so that allied fire counts for "less"

No, because that still allows trolls to grief a already squishy frame. So it's simple either revert the "fix" Or rework Nyx completely. No need to complicate it.

15 minutes ago, Ordosan said:

Okay first it WAS a bug fix that ended up as a nerf...(why people like abusing bugs so much is beyond me)
2nd it was SPOSE to be a nyx 4 that could move but be smaller it WASNT spose to be an immortal nyx.
3rd DE HAS mentioned that they are thinking of reverting the bug to be a legit thing (not the first time. speed nova was a bug as was loki switch teleport on allies) course they might as well just disable FF for both version of it so its part of nyx and not the mod.
/thread

Yes "ff" should disabled, as it allows griefing. Just like you cannot rad proc your self to grief this "fix" should he treated no differentinly and FF should be removed.

 

3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

no other augment in the entire game alters and ult in that way.

No other augment allows griefing either.

(Need to add for feedback)Also void frame powers should not affect the assimilate or absorb either because ember cannot chip frost bubble with her powers. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[EinheriarJudith]

37 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

No other augment allows griefing either.

the augment doesnt morph the power it completely replaces the functionality of the power. that is counter productive. you arent meant to be an invulnerable tank even valkyr has her draw back for staying in hysteria. powers that make you invulnerable need to come at an extreme cost because you cant die while you channel them. reverting it back to its broken state is an aweful idea. instead they should damage absorb cap the base power/augment and just allow you to move with its mobility restrictions and allow you to shoot but disable her other powers. the augment allows you to do to much with almost no draw back making it take priority over the base power. half the dev team at DE dont want that and i side with them it ridiculous to want that kind of cheese. there is no griefing when you solo because griefing is caused by players. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

16 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you arent meant to be an invulnerable

You are not invulnerable. 

 

16 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

powers that make you invulnerable need to come at an extreme cost

Slow movement, explosion radius is halved, and a magnetic proc. I'd say that's fair. 

18 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

everting it back to its broken state is an aweful

Who said it was broken? What you?! Lol 

It wasn't broken, it made Nyx more useful. 

Why can't she tank, this is telekinesis we are taking about?! Even Rebecca used her as a tank to shield and defend allies.

21 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

augment allows you to do to much with almost no draw back 

Nullys, maniacs, ancients, ospreys = Plenty of drawback. 

Either revert the "fix" Or rework Nyx completely, It is that simple.

[EinheriarJudith]

33 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

You are not invulnerable. 

 

Slow movement, explosion radius is halved, and a magnetic proc. I'd say that's fair. 

Who said it was broken? What you?! Lol 

It wasn't broken, it made Nyx more useful. 

Why can't she tank, this is telekinesis we are taking about?! Even Rebecca used her as a tank to shield and defend allies.

Nullys, maniacs, ancients, ospreys = Plenty of drawback. 

Either revert the "fix" Or rework Nyx completely, It is that simple.

1. gray health bar = invulnerable

2. the halved radius is there because shes moving (not an acceptable drawback). the only enemies that proc magnetic are ancients disruptors (loaded them in simu didnt get magnetized not once). slow movement > no movement.

3. being able to almost indefinitely stay in it before is... ding ding ding broken. 

4. shes a utility frame. shes also a telepath more so than she is a telekinetic.

5. nullys apply to everyone (but because she can shoot they arent a threat) again since you are invulnerable manics are no threat. opsery get destroyed by that so called small explosion radius (btw 20m is not small especially not for someone who is moving).

no, revert is a no go. side grade is what they should be and hopefully will be aiming for.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by EinheriarJudith