Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf

[Chroia]

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

"Nyx assimilate isn't even overpowered!"

Powerful? Absolutely.
Overpowered? I don't think so, given the lack of mobility. If all you're doing is standing around face-tanking, you're going to run out of energy.

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

"This makes Nyx totally unsuable."

I agree it's an overstatement, but it's not fundamentally entirely wrong.
But it effectively reduces her common kit back to just Chaos (and the occasional mindjack if there's an appropriate target in a beneficial location), which I don't see as an improvement.

Perhaps if Absorb (and even more so Assimilate, with its halved range) were better at applying the absorbed damage, it would actually see some use as anything besides a panic PBAoE knockdown.
Absorb -> Get drained by a 'friend', but you wipe out everyone in the room, at least you've got a few seconds to breathe, and there'll likely be a few energy orbs to get you back on your feet.

But between the poor damage type and the low range, (not to mention the detrimental effect that Assimilate has, to boot,) that just isn't the case currently.

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

"Nyx is a one-button frame now!"

Again, overstatement but not really wrong.

Without Assimilate, your bread-and-butter ability is Chaos, no ifs ands or buts.
Mind Control is a very situational ability. Potent, for sure, but not something you're going to be using in 80% of the missions you run (unless you primarily run level 100+ endless missions).

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

"Our energy is too precious to have it wasted" Disingenuous

Yes and no.
There's a reason 75% eff is king, and energy orbs don't scale with P/Flow.

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

"We need Assimilate to cheese kuva flood missions using guardian derision!"

If someone actually said that, they need to broaden their horizons.
I'll refer you to OmniXVII's post.

On 3/13/2017 at 9:05 AM, OmniXVII said:

There are so many other ways to complete a Kuva Flood mission with minimal effort, and I don't know why Assimilate Nyx is always attributed as the cheese strat when there are even better Warframes out there at "cheesing" it. Pick Loki and stay invisible the entire time, use Wukong or other immortal frames and just go afk while waiting for kuva to spawn. 

Also Assimilate is incredibly over-rated on Kuva Floods. I have never stayed in my Assimilate bubble during the entire duration of the kuva collecting. The Kuva Guardians are right on your arse since you are standing completely still and draining your energy.

Wukong is much more effective at face-tanking Kuva Guardians (and anyone else who happens to be nearby), because (with Rage, which a Defy Wukong has no reason not to be using) he gains energy from taking damage, unlike Nyx.

-----

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

"It's silly that players can spend all my energy in seconds when that same energy would keep me going a long time against enemy fire."

The fact that there's a mechanical reason built-in to the game, doesn't make it okay, and doesn't mean it can't be adjusted indirectly.

 

On 3/13/2017 at 8:10 AM, Momaw said:

1) The basic problem I see is that people are in this mindset where they are going to use Assimilate, and stay in Assimilate.  2) When you're face tanking a boss, that's silly.  3) When you're parked on a mission objective and making the enemies literally unable to touch it, that's silly.  4) Assimilate and Absorb become truly abusive when the game allows you to just STAY in this mode for long period of time being invulnerable

1) The disabled energy regen, inherent drain and damage drain both disincentive staying permanently.
The fact that, in any DEAC you can stay so for a couple minutes at a time anyway? That's back to needing to fix Energygate.

2) Why?
No, really. Why?
There are frames that can do it, and they do it better.
Forget Assimilate, and Nyx can do it, she just can't also do damage at the same time.

3) Why is it any sillier than Frost / Vephyr / Vauban / Limbo /Volt locking down a defense objective?
Again, the both the inherent energy drain, and the damage->drain are there so you can't just afk it.

4) I agree with this. I just say that they don't, inherently.
The problem, as far as Absorb/Assimilate's invulerability, is that the damage-drain doesn't compare well with 75% eff + P Flow, before level scaling starts ramping up - not that they, themselves, allow invulnerability

 

All that said, I could get behind your idea, I think.
Would suggest the fatigue be 1/2 the uptime, but would need to play-test it.

[(PSN)SageHeed]

13 hours ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

There was a time when I would have said Nyx was the best warframe in the game, based exclusively on Chaos and the fact that it was the only thing that even allowed us to play what we called end game back then. I'd have to say she doesn't feel nearly as impactful anymore compared to back then, mainly due to all the AI changes over a four year period. Her chaos has gone from being amazing to just kind of ok. There's a real reason why some of us keep saying she's become a lesser version of an irradiating disarm Loki, and that's because it's hard to tell a difference between Chaos and what amounts to an extended duration rad proc. There need to be some major changes to how the AI responds to Chaos and Mind Control to bring her back up to top tier. As it is she's just decent but extremely soft AoE CC, with two useless powers and one situationally mediocre power, and zero survivability. The augment getting rid of friendly fire damage at least opened up one more direction to build her in, and changing the wording on the mod and keeping build diversity would have been a better choice for the game than "fixing" it and reducing her build diversity back down to Chaos bot, especially with Chaos in its current mediocre state.

Valid points, all of these. Personally I'd like to see enemies under the effect of Chaos always prioritize other Chaos victims, and only when none are found will they target other enemies and players based on proximity/threat. 

But I still pick Nyx over Loki any day (that isn't Spy) because of Mind Control. It immediately removes a threat to you, at any level, and turn it into a buffed sentry for your team. At higher level Interception missions there sometimes isn't enough time to kill an enemy that's in the middle of taking over a point, but Mind Control stops them with one tap. At any game mode there will always be one enemy that is the strongest, and that one enemy will always work for Nyx.

[(PSN)SageHeed]

13 hours ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

 

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by (PS4)SageHeed
Accidental double-posting.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Welp it's Tuesday and still no word from DE?! Waiting patiently......

[ViolentDuck]

Do I have to do a daily post until the big update is finished? contain the calamity that is your mammaries, this will be resolved eventually with a change to the augment or DE will put their foot down on this fix, getting real tired of seeing the same people complain day after day when they know DE is working overtime on the next update. 
It's not that they do not care about your pleas, it is that they do not have the time to reply to a thread this large currently.
Good day sirs and madams! 

[Chroia]

4 hours ago, ViolentDuck said:

this will be resolved eventually with a change to the augment or DE will put their foot down on this fix,
Actually no, history shows that these things tend to get neither followup or at least some official word - unless there's a continuous vocal outcry.
Case in point: Mutagen Samples and the Hema.

getting real tired of seeing the same people complain day after day when they know DE is working overtime on the next update.
I sympathize. You think we're not getting tired of nattering on an on about it?

Consider that the first, last, and only official comment on this was a 'we'll think about it' 21 days ago.
Part of that is that they're been at PAX, sure. But not everyone was, and DE staff have been posting throughout.

And sure, they're crunching for the next update.
But all it'd take is a single sentence, some acknowledgement of the issue, even if not a final answer, just so we know that despite the silence it's still an active issue... rather than being because it's dead and buried.
 

[nanicow]

i'm really scared they won't change assimilate, because of this behaviour that DE has with NOT CARING ABOUT THE FEEDBACK that players give. (like the Hema costs for example.. as @Chroia pointed out).

[Fluffysbeans]

55 minutes ago, nanicow said:

i'm really scared they won't change assimilate, because of this behaviour that DE has with NOT CARING ABOUT THE FEEDBACK that players give. (like the Hema costs for example.. as @Chroia pointed out).

You're right on some fronts, but if you think back to the Glast Gambit and the Vacuum Within, there are also times where they did fix things off of player input. And the Gambit even had the two week silence because of Christmas, but it still got fixed (mostly).

[Cat__Nap]

They fix certain things. Undoing nerfs to frames doesn't usually happen though, at least lately.

Ash's nerf never got undone, though admittedly he was OP before. But neutering an ability to the point where other abilities are better at the exact same thing doesn't sit well with me.

Valkyr never got un-nerfed (she actually got nerfed again while disguising it as a buff in the patch notes - a nerf on top of a nerf, hue), and while she's still playable for Hysteria, a Hysteria-only build isn't viable anymore. I can kind of understand the change, but only because Hysteria IS still viable, albeit not as a constant thing.

Nyx's invuln was similar to old Hysteria, with the massive drawback of next to zero mobility (and no parkour), and with the lack of DE responses it does seem like it's not going to be changed, but who knows. I hope they realize that not being trolled as a DE employee doesn't mean the ability isn't broken. And sadly, unlike Valkyr, Nyx doesn't have anything going for her now other than Chaos...which is nothing but a watered down Irradiating Disarm.

[Fluffysbeans]

27 minutes ago, Cat__Nap said:

They fix certain things. Undoing nerfs to frames doesn't usually happen though, at least lately.

The thing is, this wasn't actually sold as a nerf, it was instead called a fix. They did something similar to Redeemer when Silver Grove dropped, and that one got reverted (along with Saryn's flippy-skirt) a few weeks (or months for flippy-skirt) later. Both the Redeemer change and the Nyx fix had unintended results, so I don't see why Nyx can't be reverted.

[Mattoropael]

8 hours ago, Fluffysbeans said:

You're right on some fronts, but if you think back to the Glast Gambit and the Vacuum Within, there are also times where they did fix things off of player input. And the Gambit even had the two week silence because of Christmas, but it still got fixed (mostly).

There's a pattern to those changes though - they get changed within a few days or a week at most after they were originally introduced, or they just don't get any real attention at all.

Case in point: Hema costs, Artax Riven

 

Of course, I pushed for the Redeemer to get fixed like a month or two after Silver Grove broke its charge shot attack speed, but that was an actual bug they introduced in Silver Grove, not a gameplay change or a fix to beneficial bugs.

[(XBOX)The Carbonite]

So is the Nyx "fix" update now live on consoles with the release of Pacifism Defect?

Scratch that, just read Xbox One update notes...RIP Nyx Assimilate.

I also just used a synoid simulor crit build a little earlier and someone was running Nyx Assimilate on Akkad; he left after 5 waves because my synoid simulor drained his energy like it was nothing every time he activated Assimilate. Come on DE, in 10 minutes I've already unwittingly trolled someone running Nyx Assimilate - can you please either revert the change or remove team-damage from Nyx's absorb ability and augment altogether?

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by (XB1)The Carbonite
Adding detail

[(PSN)krumlin]

When I  first heard of this "fix" I wasn't too concerned, but:

I played Nyx in a Void Mot Survival mission. When using Assimilate It took only several seconds to deplete my energy. Then I would spend what felt like forever, jumping around trying to get my energy back. Just to lose it again, almost instantly.

My Nyx is modded for MAX efficiency, and Zenurik school, and Prime Flow. I even bought his energy arcane helmet.

There was nothing unusual about the mission, no simulors shooting at me, etc. I don't recall enemy attacks rapidly depleting your energy before? I can't imagine my teammates did all that.

I don't think it's an understatement to say that the Assimilate Mod is completely useless now. Why would anyone want 5 seconds of invincibility at the cost of their entire energy reserve?

[Volinus7]

99% of DE's effort is always on pumping out new monetized items not balancing the game. Or they really think this game is well balanced? I might overestimate their standard because the testaments are all over the forum, buff this/rework that/make x great again/y is a mr fodder/unnerf these/nerf those. 

"Ignorance is bliss" is how players endure WF and how DE maintain it.

 

How long the gap between Mesa 360 nerf and her exalted treatment was? 

U17.5 - U18.13 

You may have to wait for around the same amount of time and they won't tell you why. 

[Cat__Nap]

21 hours ago, Fluffysbeans said:

The thing is, this wasn't actually sold as a nerf, it was instead called a fix. They did something similar to Redeemer when Silver Grove dropped, and that one got reverted (along with Saryn's flippy-skirt) a few weeks (or months for flippy-skirt) later. Both the Redeemer change and the Nyx fix had unintended results, so I don't see why Nyx can't be reverted.

They "fixed" Valkyr's already-nerfed energy cost for Hysteria.

Which was actually another massive nerf, disguised as a fix. Because they hadn't nerfed her enough already. 

Yes, it's not quite the same thing, but as far as history goes, many "fixes" or shoddy implementations that turned out horribly were either addressed or fixed within a couple of weeks of being put into the game. Most of the time, they revert mistakes within a week. The fact that we've heard nothing except Rebecca saying it seemed fine to a DE Employee that won't get trolled, doesn't bode well. It's pretty clear no one played this change on a non-staff account after implementing it, or they'd have seen how broken it is..

Assimilate Nyx is dead in everything but solo now (y'know, unless you have [DE] in front of your in-game name), and while I'd like to say I have faith DE will revert it, I don't really see them doing that. The longer they take to respond, the less likely they are to have anything positive to say (i.e. "we made a mistake, it's being reverted"), and they've been pretty active the past few days in responding to other things, but still haven't commented on the issue of their neutering of Nyx. 

My guess is she'll remain broken. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think we would've heard something by now other than an employee saying it seemed manageable to them.

And just for the record, I wouldn't have been against it if they did what they did to Hysteria and just made the energy drain ramp up over time, so long as it still gave us a reasonable uptime, especially considering the really long end animation and complete lack of mobility. I'm not okay with zero uptime because anything and everything pops the bubble, though.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Cat__Nap

[(XBOX)Slimm qp ReapeR]

They still haven't fixed the "fix" I see..

[viperfang4]

I was a Nyx main, but I have not ran her since testing it after this nerf happened and do not plan to run her again until it is fixed. It is broken for many reasons discussed here and needs reverted.

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

I had 3 randoms yesterday during the assassination sortie on Vay Hek. The Nyx player types, "Please don't shoot Nyx". None of us were doing it beforehand anyways, but pretty disturbing that he had to plead in the chat beforehand to be sure no one trolled him. This is the fear that Nyx assimilate players now feel. I've stopped using her since I knew the nerf was coming to console. I assume others either don't use her anymore either or have shelved the augment mod all together.

Edited March 23, 2017 by (XB1)Onyx Guarrd
mhm

[tojo01]

Please revert assimilate to what it was. The drawback that came with that ability was enough of a balance already.

[Treebiter]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Onyx Guarrd said:

I had 3 randoms yesterday during the assassination sortie on Vay Hek. The Nyx player types, "Please don't shoot Nyx". None of us were doing it beforehand anyways, but pretty disturbing that he had to plead in the chat beforehand to be sure no one trolled him. This is the fear that Nyx assimilate players now feel. I've stopped using her since I knew the nerf was coming to console. I assume others either don't use her anymore either or have shelved the augment mod all together.

I have that very phrase on my clipboard ready to be posted on a moment' notice. A lot of people listen. Many don't.

Still, DE may surprise us with our long-awaited revert when the Octavia patch drops (if you believe hard enough, it might come true).

[Roxxarus]

Steve's tweet says "Warframe reworkS". I genuinely hope and pray that Assimilate/Absorb will get a look at with that. Whether or not multiple reworks is what Steve really implied or not, I really hope it's finally something that we've been looking for.

If not, please DE. We really don't want Nyx and this augment/niche to die off due to negligence, and I dare to say neither does any of the DE staff members/players.

[TheLostBeast]

On 2017/3/21 at 4:31 PM, Chroia said:

Consider that the first, last, and only official comment on this was a 'we'll think about it' 21 days ago.
Part of that is that they're been at PAX, sure. But not everyone was, and DE staff have been posting throughout.

And sure, they're crunching for the next update.
But all it'd take is a single sentence, some acknowledgement of the issue, even if not a final answer, just so we know that despite the silence it's still an active issue... rather than being because it's dead and buried.
 

Strongly agree on this statement.

[Treebiter]

We'll see if the imminent patch contains a revert.

If it doesn't, it'll be time to ask Rebecca again.

[MikuBlade]

Completely lost any interest in playing Warframe after "fix". Nyx was the only frame I've enjoyed to play. I don't want to be handicapped by playing with my friends or in pugs. Soloing could be fun but burns me out quickly. Not hyped/don't care about Octavia. Don't want to jump on a metaframe either (Cheese Master Race, WoF, Snowman, meh etc.). Please Reb, for the love of Goddess of the Night revert all changes back. 2017 is panful enough in terms of gaming. I don't want Warframe to join my "meh" club of games. I'm sure you don't want it either.

[TheLostBeast]

8 hours ago, Treebiter said:

We'll see if the imminent patch contains a revert.

If it doesn't, it'll be time to ask Rebecca again.

I don't see any related information on a fix for Nyx's Absorb in the forum's update information, is there any change to Nyx's Absorb in game? Maybe it is time to do so again.