Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf

[main_antagonist]

yeah it feels like a nerf, on a side note on high level content kuva floods and sorties when some players go into bleedout they get jealous that you didn't die with them so they try to fire at you and pop your bubble, since they usually hadn't played with the augment they didn't realise they weren't able to get you killed because their damage didn't contribute to your total absorb ... the thought that trolls like that will now be able to do that is saddening 

[Reaver_X]

Yeah sorry but this needs to be reverted, you basically just gave trolls a field day with whomever is using nyx, its akin to back when limbo could banish players and there was no out to it like rolling out is now. Pls fix your fix DE.

[main_antagonist]

20 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Does it also apply when your team mate is spamming synoid simulor mindlessly right next to you?

YOOOOO I haven't encountered a mirage-ulor since the change now I'm even more worried O_O

[DatDarkOne]

I just got done testing on Akkad.  Had a Saryn in the group.  Saryn's spores just ate all my energy while in Assimulate.  It was like between 10-20 points of energy per second being drained.  I can just imagine what it would be with a Mirage/S Symulor. 

[TaylorsContraction]

Agree that this fix was a mistake.  In high level missions assimilate isn't even that strong because enemies do so much damage,  you run out of energy in no time.

This whole time I felt assimilate functioned as intended,  taking no damage from allies for a longer up time.

DE,  you guys need to stop looking at how anything functions in the star chart and come to conclusions that something is op.  Consider the use of seemingly strong abilities in high level content, and then decided if something is truly overpowered.  My assimilate nyx could tank in a kuva flood mission,  but not indefinitely.  This meant her the objective done fast while your tank is alive,  I can't even imagine how fast the energy drain well be with allied aoe damage hitting me.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Someone upload a video of this BUG, tag Rebecca so we all can see first hand.

[(XBOX)GryffsDeadCorps]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Luckily I hadn't finished the Sortie yet and there is a Defense mission up - this sets the field for one of my favourite Nyx Assimilate strategies. Hopping in a Defense Shotgun-Only Sortie with my 'Terminator Nyx' to protect the Ally after this change was the perfect testing ground for me - especially in Public matchmaking where you're never sure what others will bring to the table.

I'm conflicted about what I found - I expected to see the sky falling, especially with a full Public team with Shotguns! With my Assimilate build, I was still able to maintain Godmode Assimilate for each wave, stopping in between to hustle for drops and stock up on energy. I only removed my '4' in combat once to run to a fallen Squad mate to quickly reactivate it.

It has been a while since Nyx has gone under any serious discussion so we'll see how far we can open this door based on the constructive feedback that takes place.

An excuse to play even more Nyx though? Sign me up.


 

I'm sorry Rebecca, but people are correct. PUGS aren't going to troll you the way they can and do troll other random players. Having played with enough people who think it's great fun to stick players in the void until the mission fails, or now with draining Nyx just because they can, this is a bad idea and it should be seen, and understood by the Devs that while there are many great players in the community, there are as many trolls. I am unsure who you guys are targeting or trying to appease with these constant nerfs, or "Fixes"? There are the "elites", you know, the people who would like to tell everyone else how to play THEIR game and who are constantly complaining about balance and power creep and then there are probably the majority who like to go and kill stuff. I didn't see a problem with Nyx, so I don't see much reason for another "Fix". Honestly though, the only way to ever make everyone happy is to create two games or two game modes. One for regular Joe's who are happy to just play and go killimg your hordes, and one for those who want to play a harcore mode. Now if you want to talk about a problem, let's talk about the lack of survivals in Void Relic missions (in my opinion there should ALWAYS be at least one), or the ever increasing number of nullifiers In Relic missions the longer you stay. You know the ones where there are Nullifiers inside of other Nullifiers bubbles, stacked as many as 4 or more deep? Now that's an issue! If that doesn't get addressed and soon you might as well call them No Abilities missions. Adding a little bulb to shoot on top of their bubbles isn't going to fix that problem when you have them drop on top of you, behind you and stack up in front of, and behind you, and have their bubbles going through floors, ceilings and walls.

Sorry if that ended up slightly off the topic, but im frustrated by these constant changes that don't seem to make the game any more enjoyable to play. 

Gryff.

[Chroia]

First things first:
Thank you for communicating.

-----

9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Defense Shotgun-Only Sortie

Respectfully, off the top of my head that's one of the least-impacted configurations you could have gone through.

Shotguns aren't conducive spraying-and-praying, and have some spread and (most have) damage dropoff besides.
On top of which Defense (even hostage def) is, by design, made up of discrete waves that follow very distinct paths from spawn to target, usually across wide open spaces.
Further, it's high level Corpus, so not many melee units.
With just about any CC at all, you never end up with a skirmish in which someone might accidentally blast you with a shotgun. Though if they do, your energy is going to vanish.
(And I somehow doubt you'd be the target of much trolling unless it's "horseplay" from specific people who feel comfortable with you.)

While naturally this also depends on your range (which Chaos wants a fair amount of), I expect you'd've seen different results in, say, the Grineer Galleon def/int tile.

Pretty much the only less impacted configurations I can think of would be bow or sniper def.

 

Try running a non-camp surv, or a Kuva Flood, or a high level ext, or int.
Basically anything where you don't need to babysit an objective, and can't just place your reticule on a certain door and kill everything just by holding down LMB. (That is a bit of hyperbole, clearly.)

If, after, you still feel the same, well, fair enough.
I don't.

-----

But all discussion this can be made fairly irrelevant with one simple answer:
Is Assimilate intended to be a tool for tanking or nuking?

(If nuking, why does it both lower your nuke's range, and leave you limited mobility to position yourself, while leaving you access to your weaponry? Further, if you're going to position yourself amongst enemies, allowing friendly fire is absolutely counterproductive.

If tanking - which it seems obviously to be, being literally the embodiment of the Mighty Glacier archtype: durable. But slow. But durable. - why are you now making it both less reliable and hugely punishing based on other players' actions and accuracy?)

 

Alternatively, if giving a definite answer isn't something you want to do (the fear of "putting Warframe in a box" or whathaveyou), how about taking a look at the (reams of feedback on this topic) and coming up with something that lets players "play the game their own way", "make their own fun", etc.
Because people, myself included, have obviously looked at the effect that Assimilate had on Absorb, and been using Assimilate to play the game their own way until now.
Have I missed any previous indication that Assimilate - which has been mechanically unchanged for the 6+ months it's existed - not being affected by friendly fire was, in fact, not working as intended?

*********

Since Nyx is actually (finally! T^T) being talked about:
Could her passive and Psychic Bolts be given some consideration?

Psychic Bolts is a lackluster nuke that - to be used as a nuke, rather than pocket Rad proc - requires a build antithetical to almost all her other skills (possibly excepting Mind Freak), and even then fares poorly as a damage source. As, in fact, do pretty much all 1-nukes (oh right, it's her 2). They live by their CC, and Psychic Bolts offers (a roll of her passive and) a Rad proc... to Nyx who has Chaos.

Speaking of her passive,
It's unreliable, it's extraneous overlap with Loki (after he got a technically-worse-but-more-efficient version of her Chaos), and it doesn't synergize with her skills - primarily because it's unreliable.
If I Mind Control someone, I probably want then to keep their weapon.
If I Chaos stuff, I probably want them killing each other. This is likelier to happen if they don't need to gap-close. On the brightside... when it does happen, you get this delicious monster-ball to Simulor Tonkor explode. >:3
If stuff actually gets hit by Absorb/Assimilate, it's so close that changing from gun to melee is often a detriment - can't force a 'retarget', buttstrikes, ground-pounds, etc.

Basically, the only times I'd want a disarm is either on everyone - which the passive doesn't provide with e.g. Chaos, but Irradiating Disarm does - or on specific targets - which Psychic Bolts doesn't provide, because they auto-acquire, on top of the disarm being %.
Unreliable crowd control is an oxymoron.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Chroia
More words. No, there weren't enough.

[Flaezon]

Yeah, I was wondering why my energy drained so fast  Meh We still have Rhino. But that's what you want guys Right? Pushing us to play the same Warframes. Also may I suggest allow Trinity Bless get at least  90% damage reduction  instead the 75% It doesn't matter if I have to put 190% or higher strength in order to reach that % of damage reduction. She cries especially in Lua high tier missions.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Venoct

[Fluffysbeans]

On 3/9/2017 at 6:32 PM, Dualstar said:

Well now you all you need to do is not stand in your allies line of fire and you should be fine.

You might say 'they should reposition to not hit me' to which i say if youre going to place yourself between my Kohm and a crowd im about to reduce to mulch then you, frankly, deserve what you get.

In the meantime if you want to facetank then get an Ice Chroma and biuld for 200+% power strength. Or if you want to keep playing Nyx then get Chaos Sphere and max out power range.

I'm sorry, but what? 
Have you even played Assimilate Nyx? The entire point of assimilate was to ensure that you wouldn't die, allowing a lower end defense frame to actually survive the insane damage output of level 100+ enemies. Not only that, assimilate makes (or used to anyway) Nyx the most reliable revive frame other than Limbo, a property even Chroma doesn't have (and yes, I've played a maxed out vex armor Chroma reaching nearly a 1200% shield bonus, I know how he feels).

Now assimilate has been reduced to a solo-only mod, leaving nearly every Nyx player in a heap of sadness. Nyx players are now entirely barred from any match that includes zarr, tonkor, pental, angstrum, and every other aoe weapon. In other words, basically every mission, seeing as aoe weapons are the most useful mob-clearing pieces of armory, and nearly everyone has one in their toolkit.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

+1 to this

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

2 hours ago, Venoct said:

Yeah, I was wondering why my energy drained so fast  Meh We still have Rhino. But that's what you want guys Right? Pushing us to play the same Warframes. Also may I suggest allow Trinity Bless get at least  90% damage reduction  instead the 75% It doesn't matter if I have to put 190% or higher strength in order to reach that % of damage reduction. She cries especially in Lua high tier missions.

I'd rather have more duration instead like double the duration for link and blessing.

[(PSN)EmilsTekcor]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)GryffsDeadCorps said:

I'm sorry Rebecca, but people are correct. PUGS aren't going to troll you the way they can and do troll other random players. Having played with enough people who think it's great fun to stick players in the void until the mission fails, or now with draining Nyx just because they can, this is a bad idea and it should be seen, and understood by the Devs that while there are many great players in the community, there are as many trolls. I am unsure who you guys are targeting or trying to appease with these constant nerfs, or "Fixes"? There are the "elites", you know, the people who would like to tell everyone else how to play THEIR game and who are constantly complaining about balance and power creep and then there are probably the majority who like to go and kill stuff. I didn't see a problem with Nyx, so I don't see much reason for another "Fix". Honestly though, the only way to ever make everyone happy is to create two games or two game modes. One for regular Joe's who are happy to just play and go killimg your hordes, and one for those who want to play a harcore mode. Now if you want to talk about a problem, let's talk about the lack of survivals in Void Relic missions (in my opinion there should ALWAYS be at least one), or the ever increasing number of nullifiers In Relic missions the longer you stay. You know the ones where there are Nullifiers inside of other Nullifiers bubbles, stacked as many as 4 or more deep? Now that's an issue! If that doesn't get addressed and soon you might as well call them No Abilities missions. Adding a little bulb to shoot on top of their bubbles isn't going to fix that problem when you have them drop on top of you, behind you and stack up in front of, and behind you, and have their bubbles going through floors, ceilings and walls.

Sorry if that ended up slightly off the topic, but im frustrated by these constant changes that don't seem to make the game any more enjoyable to play. 

Gryff.

yeah she does work for DE, so people will naturally try their best to troll. Even if they are not trolling aoe weapons exist and can cause massive fails. :P

[KosmicKnight]

Seriously DE, what the heck are you thinking with this?  Did any of you even test this?  One or two shots from a friendly shot and poof, no more shield, energy goes to zero. Assimilate mod is now worthless in any group setting. With this focus on clans, thought you wanted clan mates, friends, etc, to play with each other? This so called "fix" needs to be reverted.

[Liverslices]

1) Warframe is a game of minmaxing, because enemy scaling means you have to get as much damage as possible.

2) Because of 1), players start a mission prepared for "endgame" scaling and enemies.

3) Nyx's energy will drain as fast as she takes damage. Against low enemies this is not a problem, but against "endgame" enemies it is less and less effective.

4) Players use "endgame" builds BEFORE enemies have scaled to "endgame" levels.

5) Thus, Nyx will star the mission at a disadvantage because of 2) and 4).

The stronger her teammates are, the worse she is. She is completely replaced by Loki with an Irradiating Disarm build, and since Assimilate is now unreliable it won't be useful.

 

[ZloGlaZ]

Please revert this "fix" back.

>>  Hopping in a Defense Shotgun-Only Sortie with my 'Terminator Nyx' to protect the Ally 

And really, shotguns are not AOE guns like Penta, Tonkor, Zarr or Sonicor ...

[Airyllish]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

le snip

With all due respect, Rebecca, it's hard to simulate the problems that are happening in the situation you describe for three imperative reasons:

1) Who you are fundamentally. It's true that Warframe has enough players that you can squad in with pubbies and they might very well have no idea about who you are, but it's equally true that you may wind up in a squad with people who do and therefore play respectfully, because nobody likes to think they're getting the ire of developers/admins/moderators/Important PeopleTM

2) The very nature of PUGs themselves, somewhat tapped into in point number one, also means that there is a huge inconsistency for regular players. You might get into a squad with sympathetic folk who go out of their way to not ruin your Assimilate Nyx because they want to get the mission done and don't want to make you cry as they do so. You might, however, run into people that want to get the mission done while also making sure that you never have energy, never have your bubble, and just generally ensure you have a terrible time. I know it seems odd that players would do this in a cooperative game where the benefits to letting your Assimilate Nyx do her job outweigh blowing up her bubble for her and leaving her with no energy and at the mercy of the enemies, but sadly, humans are trash. Some humans, in particular, are extensive levels of garbage and will therefore go out of their way to torment other players.

3) Shotguns, while fun weapons, don't present the problem of AoE damage inflicted by the 'nade launchers or any other AoE weapon that generally sees popular use due to high damage and fast room clearing capability. 

This would be something that you could better test if you managed to find the time to perhaps pre-arrange a squad with certain loadouts and then test those loadouts with your Nyx. It completely removes the element of inconsistency because your squad can actively tailor their behaviour to what you need to test: do friendly squads that try and work with you still shaft your frame with AoE weapons? Similarly, what about players that go out of their way to grief you? What difference does it make when in a full squad of four, one of the three others is going out of their way to make your life terrible in that mission, and what impact do they have based on the weapon they're using at the time to grief you with?

The issue is complex enough that a bit of actual testing in controlled spaces where you and your squad know what you need to test and can, with precision, emulate the widely varying squad types you might come up to play with in Public Matchmaking is pretty much necessary.

[(XBOX)rhymes2lyrics]

Im on Xbox one and Im not prepared for this. My Nyx why!!!!??????? 

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

Welp, might as well remove this augment from Nyx once this hits console. Not amused. Horrible change. Started using Nyx more because of the augment.

[PsiWarp]

Sorry to say, but using Absorb in general (with or without augment) brings back really bad memories of:

• Old Shock Eximus aura with 100% Magnetic proc.
• Old Ancient Disrupter smack with 100% Magnetic proc.
• Operator "dying" draining the Warframe's entire energy pool.

Except instead of enemies being the cause, it's your allies. Assimilate used to be the band-aid for this; it made Absorb fun to use again without fear of leaving you without energy for casting and Quick Thinking. Still, the default ability was left untouched, and now with the fix, the flaw with damage threshold energy drain is much more apparent.

I'm not saying that it should be without cost when charging up a powerful AoE nuke that can scale, it should definitely be balanced for that function. I'm saying it shouldn't be up to other players to determine the cost you will have to pay for, knowing there are all kinds of people out there.

[Fluffysbeans]

I'm back.
I just finished running a small defense mission while trying to test some silly builds, and ran into an assimilate nyx. I said something about how assimilate nyx was dead, and he said it was fine. I then proceeded to blow up his bubble with my mid-forma aklex, only took a little over one clip. I watched his energy plummet from full to 0 within seconds, and that wasn't even from a real powerhouse. Needless to say, his opinion changed real fast, and mine was further cemented. I sure know all the clowns running around with syn-sim ember aren't going to pay attention, and even friends that know not to hit the bubble can still mess up. I run with my clan co-leader all the time, and he uses zarr, a much more damage-pumping aoe weapon than aklex, meaning one of us will have to give in if this 'fix' isn't reverted. 

Also, sidenote, it's pretty funny how many of the people on this thread are using the same icon as me. We sure are a band of crazy people who know what we like and how we like it.

[AntoninDvorak]

I'm sorry for you nyx players. I understand your grief. You have my moral support and i hope this nerf gets reverted ASAP.. I mean, why nyx had to meet the nerf bat? No one EVER said she needed a nerf.

[Tunaghost]

Rofl, wait until you play with a group of all telos boltace spam.

SAY BYEBYE TO YOUR MANA

Seriously though.... please revert this?!

Edited March 11, 2017 by Tunaghost

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

I never even knew Assimilate ignored allied fire before even though Nyx Prime is my most used frame.

I only use Absorb as a quick knockdown or panic button because of allies draining my energy every chance they get.

[Vedlom]

I don't exactly main Nyx, but she is my second favourite frame. This "fix" was totally uncalled for and just makes her 4 pretty much useless again.

Once again a prime example on why DE should listen to the community (which they claim they do). I'm really hoping they get wind of this and completely revert it. Not "make it so she takes less damage from teammates" but COMPLETELY revert this. And really soon.