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Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf


Treebiter
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1 hour ago, AntoninDvorak said:

I'm sorry for you nyx players. I understand your grief. You have my moral support and i hope this nerf gets reverted ASAP.. I mean, why nyx had to meet the nerf bat? No one EVER said she needed a nerf.

I definitely agree. If ANYTHING, she needed a buff.

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Well, a day and a half on and I think the responses speak for themselves. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to put your views across (please keep them coming).

Since the patch dropped I've had mixed experiences in game. Some rounds have allowed me to use Assimilate without issue, but others have absolutely crippled me. Again, the subject of inconsistancy of experience rears its head.

@[DE]Rebecca

I don't know whether you've had the time to do any further testing into this Reb? The gist of the responses here is that to get a truely representative feel for the impact of this change, it'll require public play, and rounds alongside AOE weapon users and direct damage frames such as Nova and Saryn. As always, thank you very much for your time and attention!

As there's just been a revert on the Mesa screen shake 'fix', i still have hope that this will also be rolled back. There's never any harm in tweaking things in the game, so long as the affected players are listened to when those fixes have an unintended negative impact.

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i think the "allies" cant charge the bubble is a honest bug, they dont plan for it, not in the design paper, or anyway intention at all. Thus think they reverse it to appeal to some play is ... really stupid.

However, this is one instance when allies can buff u damage and u don't want it, which is rare in wf

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21 hours ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Have you even played Assimilate Nyx? The entire point of assimilate was to ensure that you wouldn't die, allowing a lower end defense frame to actually survive the insane damage output of level 100+ enemies.

The superior method to avoiding damage is to have enemies shooting at eachother instead. Its not just more economical in general but also benefits your allies.

21 hours ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Nyx players are now entirely barred from any match that includes zarr, tonkor, pental, angstrum, and every other aoe weapon. In other words, basically every mission, seeing as aoe weapons are the most useful mob-clearing pieces of armory, and nearly everyone has one in their toolkit.

Get yourself Chaos Sphere the next time an Interception sortie pops up. People love me for doing it.

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14 minutes ago, FireSegment said:

i think the "allies" cant charge the bubble is a honest bug, they dont plan for it, not in the design paper, or anyway intention at all. Thus think they reverse it to appeal to some play is ... really stupid.

However, this is one instance when allies can buff u damage and u don't want it, which is rare in wf

The problem is, the return on investment is abysmal. Even built for range and strength, Assimilate as a direct damage ability is very underwhelming, and with players throwing out so much damage it will more often than not leave you completely energy depleted once it pops.

Anyway, we already have Absorb for that exact purpose. The difference between them is that Assimilate allows use of weapons, skills and movement while it's active - functions that have no purpose if the ability is intended to deal direct damage. Being able to move and fight only makes sense if the ability remains active.

This is what leads me and others here to beleive that regardless of original intention, the correct purpose of Assimilate is defence, not offence. That's actually quite a nice way to sum up the augment: Absorb = offence, Assimilate = defence.

Edited by Treebiter
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Whelp, my clanmate tried to play his last night.

We joined a public Hieracon (think I spelled that right?) to endo farm.

It had a Slova Prime.

Needless to say, he didn't last long.

It didn't help that the other guy was a Saryn with an Ignis Wraith.

We eventually talked the guys into leaving early becuase my clanmate wanted to change frames badly. We didn't want to ask them to stop using Spores/M Prime becuase that would just be kinda messed up. At the same time though, my clanmate was basically just unable to use Assimilate unless he moved VERY far away from the other guys (Saryn had some range going).

For the love of Nyx, revert this so called fix. Both of our favorite builds were Assimilate Nyx, and you guys just wrecked it. There goes more build diversity out the window. 

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3 hours ago, Dualstar said:

>1200% shield bonus

I just want you to know, im laughing at you.

The superior method to avoiding damage is to have enemies shooting at eachother instead. Its not just more economical in general but also benefits your allies.

Get yourself Chaos Sphere the next time an Interception sortie pops up. People love me for doing it.

Oops, meant 1200% armor bonus, not shield. Since you were so helpful, I'm now unsure if you're laughing because you think 1200% is impossible, or because you fell apart over a typo.

The issue with your second point is that, yes, chaos is an incredibly reliable way of not getting hit, but that's not the full story. Did you know that null bubbles block chaos? Just because a majority of enemies are stopped, that null gallivanting around with his corrupted bombard buddy is still going to peel your face off from long range. Assimilate lets you add another layer of security to everything not stopped by chaos, as well as stopping all incoming damage focused on things you're trying to defend. Not only that, but a good build even semi-focused on efficiency, something typical to a chaos Nyx, can easily use assimilate just as efficiently.

And on your third point, that's great that Nyx has been relegated to one mission type and is now allowed to only use one ability, but don't you see the problem there? I agree that chao sphere is an amazing augment, but that doesn't mean all the people who loved assimilate Nyx should be barred from any mission if they don't want to only spam their 3. The recent reworks show that DE is trying to make frames use their entire ability set and not be one trick ponies, and this Nyx change stepped right into the wrong direction.

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27 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Oops, meant 1200% armor bonus, not shield. Since you were so helpful, I'm now unsure if you're laughing because you think 1200% is impossible, or because you fell apart over a typo.

Well if you dont want to get mocked, proofread before you post.

27 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

The issue with your second point is that, yes, chaos is an incredibly reliable way of not getting hit, but that's not the full story. Did you know that null bubbles block chaos? Just because a majority of enemies are stopped, that null gallivanting around with his corrupted bombard buddy is still going to peel your face off from long range.

This is true, and therefore Nullies are always first on my S#&$ list in a mission where im expecting them.

As for the ever-present Bombard, i use the terrain to avoid damage.

27 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

Assimilate lets you add another layer of security to everything not stopped by chaos, as well as stopping all incoming damage focused on things you're trying to defend. Not only that, but a good build even semi-focused on efficiency, something typical to a chaos Nyx, can easily use assimilate just as efficiently.

Id argue that you can shield a target just as well without using Assimilate but i think we can just agree to disagree on that.

27 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

And on your third point, that's great that Nyx has been relegated to one mission type

I only named an example of a mission where i always go Nyx first. Other more objective-focused missions also have Nyx as a high priotiy pick, like Hijack and the event mission we had last week.

27 minutes ago, Fluffysbeans said:

And on your third point, that's great that Nyx has been relegated to one mission type and is now allowed to only use one ability, but don't you see the problem there? I agree that chao sphere is an amazing augment, but that doesn't mean all the people who loved assimilate Nyx should be barred from any mission if they don't want to only spam their 3. The recent reworks show that DE is trying to make frames use their entire ability set and not be one trick ponies, and this Nyx change stepped right into the wrong direction.

And i pointed this out about Nyx on the day when Absorb was changed to drain energy based on absorbed damage. Id link to the post, but it was made before the forum renovation and it no longer appears in my post history, and the thread itself may be gone too.

 

20 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

And irradiation disarm does the same thing but you invisible, Assimilate made Nyx uniquely different to Loki.

Radial Disarm has inferior range, Irradiating Disarm has inferior duration and compared to Chaos Sphere neither can project a persistent AoE.

Loki is one of the most fragile frames out there and he needs his invisibility to counterbalance that.

Edited by Dualstar
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Just tried Assimilate again.
Got super lucky.

Team consisted of a Volt Prime, an Ash Prime, and a Frost.

They were using, in order, a Soma Prime, a Braton Prime, and a Tigris.

As long as my team is using low damage bullet hoses, not using Nova Prime, and aren't using AOE weapons or super heavy hitting things like Tigris Prime, i'm fine. 

But we all now how unlikely that actually is. 

Plus, these guys were kinda cool. Got to talking about Assimilate, and they were cool with actively not shooting me. 

So, you know, trolls still mess your whole day up. Any part of the games that lets people troll should be removed all together. So, again, please remove.

It turns this ability into Russian roulette when it comes to PUGS. 

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5 minutes ago, Dualstar said:

Well if you dont want to get mocked, proofread before you post.

Or you could just not be rude and mock people >_>

 

He made a typo, so what?

Don't be a jerk about it. I knew what he meant. Anybody who has played Chroma would have assumed he meant armor. 

Don't be so harsh man. 

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4 hours ago, Dualstar said:

Radial Disarm has inferior range, Irradiating Disarm has inferior duration and compared to Chaos Sphere neither can project a persistent AoE.

This is true, but not the whole picture.
Rad procs are immune to Nullifier bubbles, and Nullifiers pop your Chaos Sphere, besides.
Pros and cons to each.

 

I'm not disputing that Chaos/Sphere are awesome. And I understand that you pointed out when it was changed etc.
I'm just asking whether Nyx being turned (back into) a 1-trick pony (with the occasional mind-jack) is really something you want to be supporting now.

Edited by Chroia
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7 hours ago, Darkfeather21 said:

This thread makes me realize that I think I'm the only Nyx player who didn't use Assimilate.

u are not alone mate, u are not alone

8 hours ago, Treebiter said:

This is what leads me and others here to beleive that regardless of original intention, the correct purpose of Assimilate is defence, not offence

It still remain being defense after the change. The trade off is still the same if u are in solo, or if allies don't care and not being a $&*^.   The only thing changed is that it no longer troll-proof, but not so much to the level of limbo with no banish-exit mechanic, or atlas un-passable stonewall yet. 

it's funny that ranged nyx used to be (and still be, sometime) the troller while assimilate nyx is the one being troll now ....

 

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On 2017-03-10 at 9:15 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Is more testing necessary? Absolutely - that goes for everyone in this thread who has claimed we've ruined something that they themselves have not tried out.

I agree.  And yet, looking at this "fix" from first principles, it is clearly evident that it is a nerf that renders Assimilate at best situational (ie. good for solo play), and at worst a mod slot best used for something else.

On the subject of Augments in general, from the Wiki:

When installed, Warframe Augments alter a Warframe's powers to perform additional effects, enhancing that power's utility.

Now, let's look at Assimilate.

Before the "fix," Assimilate allowed a Nyx to move while using Absorb - at the cost of reduced ability range and only being able to walk.  This opened up a new avenue of play for Nyx players, the ability to tank.  I like my tanky warframes, but I've always has a soft spot for Nyx (currently my most used warframe).  With the addition of Assimilate this was a match made in heav...er...the Void.  Add to this Guardian Derision and Nyx has even more utility.

After the "fix," what are we left with?  A reduced range Absorb - the ability to move afforded by Assimilate is rendered trivial every time an unknowing player, or outright troll goes blowing by an Assimilate Nyx with a bullet hose, Tigris Prime, Synoid Simulor, Tonkor, etc.  Reduced utility.

Therefore, was a "fix" really required in this case?

I know I have repeated myself and others with this post, but I think it is important to point out that in some cases, play testing is not required to point out that a change is ill-conceived or short-sighted.  I think the players find it at times frustrating to have to be play testers after the fact.  I know that DE is in no way obligated, but in some cases - namely, ability reworks - a little consultation before the fact goes a long way.

I think it was in the 2016 year-end Devstream where DE said they were going to work on their communication with the players...

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