Improving Zephyr

[Air-mage]

how about:

Passive: amplifies aura, ability, and weapon strength while airborne, half gravity,

Tailwind- initially same as now, but can be channeled, using ground smash or crouch makes it into a nose dive, ranged projectiles can't hit zephyr while casting

duration increases the time travelled by first cast before channeling, range same, 10 energy initial cost, 2 drain/sec channeling,

Gust- medium ranged impact damage spell, pushing back enemies and repelling incoming projectiles

Turbulence- turn on/off makes zephyr float, activating her passive, or doubling it if she uses tailwind or jump and turbulence is turned on

1.5 drain/sec

Tornadoes- same as now, but tornado size increases with range, default size decreases, and power strength speeds up both their movement and the enemy releasing/scattering speed,

[Mu_Gera]

For tornadoes, instead of a locked hierarchy, maybe it's just whatever the last element that hit it and in case of multiple instances, whatever element dealt the most damage.

[(PSN)Xx_Weasle_xX]

Zephyr is my main.

Until they nerf Tonkor, then I am not sure of her status of what is going to happen to her.

I have had a bad run. Used Trinity a lot, she got nerfed, used Mirage a lot, she got nerfed, used her again they nerfed Synoid.

Used Zephyr, Tonkor gets nerfed.

Pretty much I need to stop playing frames. It is my fault they are getting nerfed.

I think Banshee Prime has a HUGE chance of becoming my new main, or Trinity again.

Zephyr is going to need a buff though. You pretty much took away her only niche with the massive Tonkor Nerf.

I formaed her 5 times to get her good. Now not sure what is going to happen to her. She is my most played frame, as well as most formaed frame. EVEN before I started using her with Tonkor.

But now, it just breaks my heart she will never be as awesome;, as when she had Tonkor.

Edited April 4, 2017 by (PS4)Xx_Weasle_xX

[LSG501]

Honestly imo they don't need to change zephyr too much.

Passive can stay the same.

I'd personally combine 1 and 2 into a 'directional tailwind', think of it as a quick burst speed but in any direction.  Pointing forwards make us travel distance faster, pointing up makes us jump higher etc.  Then add in damage amplification in the direction of travel so lose 2's ability completely.  I'm not sure about others but the lack of auto jump etc on 2 makes it rarely used for me.

Then to replace 1 or 2 I'd either add in some sort of directional wind funnel attack, yes I know other frames have a 'directional attack' but I think something like this would fit in well with the rest of the kit, or an ability similar to inaros sandstorm where it can be used to give zephyr space when surrounded, bit like a twister focused around zephyr (yes I know it's similar in design to 3). 

3 and 4 don't really need much change although maybe a buff/change to 4 could be done where it either gets more damage or the funnels sucks the enemy to the ground so we can kill them easier because I've had times where it's basically stuck an enemy to the ceiling and we had to wait for it type of thing.

 

So basically my proposal would be

1 - omnidirectional tailwind with damage amplification in the direction of travel.

2 - funnel for focused crowd clearance or whirlwind for crowd clearance when surrounded

3 - turbulence which gives a shield

4 - tornado would be the same large scale crowd control we have now

[KaeseSchnitte]

First of all, sorry for not answering for so long. I'll try to clear out misunderstandings that may have happened.

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Your proposal for 'katabatic vortex' is one of the places you come to adding a good answer to these questions, but I think it's too similar to another part of her toolkit that with some improvements - improvements that it is, IMHO, in need of - could more or less either obsolete it or force it to be a direct copy of Vauban's vortex.

Since there have been misunderstandings what I want Katabatic Vortext to be time and time again, I've put my uber galactic paint skillz™ to the test and drawn a little something that hopefully clears things up.

I hope this helps to understand what clear purpose I want Katabatic Vortex to fulfill.

On 23.3.2017 at 4:50 AM, Arkenai7 said:

 

To tackle the question of why your suggestion doesn't 'fix' Zephyr's issues, we must first tackle the question of what the issues are.

What do you view them as? My impression from your posts is that you dislike parts of the frame, and have tried to improve those parts. This is a reasonable view, but I don't think it is the full extent of the problem.

 

Consider the following questions:

Why would you play Zephyr?

What does Zephyr bring to a team?

What can Zephyr do that other frames can't?

 

- For her mobility

- CC

- Be fast

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I find that the answers to these questions are more limited than they are with other frames, and I see that as the issue.

I don't. Currently, I just find her current kit to be too clunky to make good use of.

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Your proposal for 'katabatic vortex' is one of the places you come to adding a good answer to these questions, but I think it's too similar to another part of her toolkit that with some improvements - improvements that it is, IMHO, in need of - could more or less either obsolete it or force it to be a direct copy of Vauban's vortex.

The proposal to merge tailwind with divebomb is a common one, since it frees up a slot for an ability. The typical Zephyr forum squad tends to shy away from implementing new abilities since it seems markedly less likely to actually happen, but if you must create a new ability, I think it important that it neatly answers one of the above questions without stepping heavily on the toes of the other abilities.

My personal opinion is that Zephyr's current toolkit would be entirely sufficient - with improvements. The greatest merit of the tailwind/divebomb merge with divebomb targeting (or just divebomb targeting) proposal is that it improves usability. That's a good change, I would say. There's more to be done to make divebomb a useful ability, but it makes it more fluid to use.

I touched on Katabatic Vortex above, as for merging Tailwind and Divebomb, I agree with you that Zephyr's kit would be really good, if it were to be improved. Combining Tailwind and DIvebomb is the most crucial improvement in my option, as Divebomb has very little merit to be its own ability when it's so similar to Tailwind. It also frees up an ability slot, which makes room for Katabatic Vortex, the second most crucial improvement, as it combos well with Divebomb, Tornado, other warframes that rely on enemies being clumped up and, to an extend, Turbulence, as all enemies will be within range of Turbulence, having their shots reflected.

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The problem divebomb suffers from is that it lacks any clear role. Why would you use it when you could use a melee slam instead? The range is not superb and not worth building for, the damage is honestly terrible (a full jump from the very top of the moon defence map to the bottom, one of the tallest places in game, will not kill a basic enemy at level 20), and the crowd control value is lacking. I've experimented somewhat with divebomb vortex builds but not only do they require heavy investment to make work, they are also still quite lackluster. Improving the damage scaling and adding range scaling would go a great distance towards making it something you might actually use.

It has the potential to synergise very nicely with tailwind, a key part of Zephyr's kit, which is something that's to be encouraged, IMHO.

I addressed the lack of a clear role for Divebomb from three angles in my suggestion. The first is to replace the scaling damage per distance travelled with 3 stages, which gives Divebomb the ability to scale better and faster with distance travelled, while also giving it a ceiling. The second angle is the buff Divebomb gets when using Tailwind to get off the ground. This buff could increase range or damage Divebomb, or increase the duration of the CC. The last angle is the augment that replaces Divebomb Vortex, which can buff Divebomb in many different ways.

Quote

Tornadoes are notorious for their unreliability. On the range point - I expect that the short tornado pull range is really just due to the awkwardness of using tornado. It's not actually that small, but you can't actually play it effectively. AFAIK power range only affects the distance that tornadoes can spawn at, as well, rather than the pickup range - which is another blow to tornado builds. If it were to do so then larger scale crowd control builds would be possible with Zephyr. The other failing with tornado builds is that unfortunately suspended enemies are rather more difficult to kill than, say, those suspended in Bastille.

I don't want to address the unreliability of tornados directly. I want the damage to scale with melee mods, although I'm not entirely happy with that suggestion, so that they can kill enemies themselves eventually. And I want them to only move within an area, so that they, while not being controllable, atleast can be expected to focus on enemies within that area. I see Tornado to be especially good in gamemodes where you don't have to kill enemies to succeed, such as Interception or Mobile Defense.

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Hmm. I think on this point we will have to agree to disagree. I, for one, view the current passive as intrinsic to Zephyr and would be deeply disturbed were it to be removed. It can be a hindrance at times, yes - I know I used to find myself hovering above doors for a moment or too quite often - but it just feels so very intertwined with Zephyr that I'm strongly opposed to its removal.

I also view the utility of Zephyr as more of a problem than her 'fun factor'. Not that I'm opposed to improvements in that regard, of course. I do feel that were we to go down the new ability route I would much prefer a ragdoll wind ability of some form. It's not currently something that's in her kit (unless divebomb is changed to do drastically more forceful knockbacks) and I'm sure it answers the fun factor question neatly - Throwing enemies well away is good fun, really.

The suggestion for her passive is not something I will change, as I think that the decreased gravity on a timer can be much more beneficial than the current iteration.

As for the fun, if my suggestion would be implemented this way, I can see the most fun comming from using Katabatic Vortex and Divebomb in conjunction to pull enemies together at the other side on the room and then slamming into them.

Edited April 26, 2017 by KaeseSchnitte

[KaeseSchnitte]

Next batch of responses:

On 1.4.2017 at 7:01 PM, Air-mage said:

how about:

Passive: amplifies aura, ability, and weapon strength while airborne, half gravity,

Tailwind- initially same as now, but can be channeled, using ground smash or crouch makes it into a nose dive, ranged projectiles can't hit zephyr while casting

duration increases the time travelled by first cast before channeling, range same, 10 energy initial cost, 2 drain/sec channeling,

Gust- medium ranged impact damage spell, pushing back enemies and repelling incoming projectiles

Turbulence- turn on/off makes zephyr float, activating her passive, or doubling it if she uses tailwind or jump and turbulence is turned on

1.5 drain/sec

Tornadoes- same as now, but tornado size increases with range, default size decreases, and power strength speeds up both their movement and the enemy releasing/scattering speed,

Passive

I personally wont change my suggestion for Zephyr's passive, as I find her current passive to be counterintuitive for anyone not "maining" Zephyr. Instead I've proposed a passive to Tailwind, so that the gravity is reduced by 90% for a set amount of time after Zephyr has used Tailwind. This, in my opinion, is well enough, as it allows Zephyr to almost hover after Tailwind finishes, so that the player can decide what to do next, while otherwise allowing Zephyr to maneuver similar to other frames.

The new passive, which is still missing an appropriate trigger, would allow Zephyr to become immune to ground-based effects, such as Moa stombs, Grineer slam attacks or Sappling Drone mines, making it especially effective in higher levels, while revivng an ally that got downed by Sappling Drone mines for example.

As such, I can't really talk about your other suggestions for Zephyr's passive, as it would make little sense to add them to my suggestion.

Tailwind

You're not the first to suggest a channelled Tailwind, I fail to see the appeal however. Not only would it be pretty hard to control and overlap with what Titania is doing, but it would also eliminate the possibility to make Divebomb targeted. Removing the current Turbulence and bundling it into Tailwind is not something I'd want to do, as it would render Zephyr prone to ranged attacks when not using Tailwind and turning Tailwind itself into an amalgamation of an ability that would be doing many things, but nothing quite right.

Gust

The repelling of projectiles is something I've suggested as well, as an immediate effect when activating Turbulence. As for the part of pushing enemies away, I'm of a different opinion. I think that Zephyr would benefit more, if she was able to get enemies closer together, either to have then sucked up by a Tornado, to have all theri projectiles blocked by Turbulence or to hit them with Divebomb. That is why I've suggested the ability Katabatic Vortex, which does just that.

Turbulence

My suggestion for Zephyr's passive works pretty similar, as it would also allow Zephyr to float. Ofcourse, it wouldn't activate all the additional boons you are suggesting. Having the float be continuous however would prove potentially troublesome, as your suggestion would have two continuous abilities, while Zephyr has only 150 energy, which is not much.

Tornado

Could work, but it would be still completely uncontrollable.

On 4.4.2017 at 3:11 AM, Wreck_Dum said:

For tornadoes, instead of a locked hierarchy, maybe it's just whatever the last element that hit it and in case of multiple instances, whatever element dealt the most damage.

That would present the problem of constantly having the element of tornados changed, as both teammates and enemies can change the elemental type. It would be nowhere near consistent enough.

 

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 4.4.2017 at 1:37 PM, LSG501 said:

Honestly imo they don't need to change zephyr too much.

Passive can stay the same.

I'd personally combine 1 and 2 into a 'directional tailwind', think of it as a quick burst speed but in any direction.  Pointing forwards make us travel distance faster, pointing up makes us jump higher etc.  Then add in damage amplification in the direction of travel so lose 2's ability completely.  I'm not sure about others but the lack of auto jump etc on 2 makes it rarely used for me.

Then to replace 1 or 2 I'd either add in some sort of directional wind funnel attack, yes I know other frames have a 'directional attack' but I think something like this would fit in well with the rest of the kit, or an ability similar to inaros sandstorm where it can be used to give zephyr space when surrounded, bit like a twister focused around zephyr (yes I know it's similar in design to 3). 

3 and 4 don't really need much change although maybe a buff/change to 4 could be done where it either gets more damage or the funnels sucks the enemy to the ground so we can kill them easier because I've had times where it's basically stuck an enemy to the ceiling and we had to wait for it type of thing.

 

So basically my proposal would be

1 - omnidirectional tailwind with damage amplification in the direction of travel.

2 - funnel for focused crowd clearance or whirlwind for crowd clearance when surrounded

3 - turbulence which gives a shield

4 - tornado would be the same large scale crowd control we have now

I don't want the passive to stay like it is, not only because of what I mentioned in the post above, but also because it gets outperformed by many other passives in the game. Zephyr's passive changes her gameplay, but it doesn't give her any advantages. Take Nidus passive as the opposite extreme, it gives him both regeneration and a protection from being downed. A passive that only offers a change in gameplay would be Mag's innate vacuum. Most player agree that her passive is weak, so I don't why Zephyr shouldn't get a passive that actually gives her an advantage.

Tailwind is Zephyr's poster child ability. Changing it too much would destroy it. I also see no point in changing it if your suggestion roughly works the same way.

I'd meed the funnel idea with the same critique I gave to the Gust idea in the post above. I think that Zephyr generally is more interested in pulling enemies together than pushing them appart.

 

 

[theMongoose]

My dream zephyr would be something like this: 

Passive: I like the low gravity I'd keep it. Although with the current parkour system and tailwind, replacing it with something more effective might be for the best.

1: Tailwind. It's solid but would be nice if it got tweaked to feel a little more fluid. I get stuck on doors and walls too often using it. Possibly shorting the ability when you hit something solid so you can move instead of waiting out the duration like a dart in the wall. In the current parkour system we also don't need the launching function so scrap that. Or a crazy idea would make her go archwing full flight style like Titania. And finally of course combine with dive bomb.

2. Turbulence. I think it's fine as is personally since it fits the frame and is a great survival ability. Maybe make it a channeling ability? I'd also move it down to the second slot.

3. Tornado. I'd add the ability to cancel tornado. Maybe add more and reduce the size. I think 4 large ones is too little and they move so damn slow. I know there is the augment but what's the point if the cc is gone from her only cc.

4. Hurricane. I've wanted to see a defense ability on zephyr for a long time. This could be a stationary wall of clouds/wind that blocks shots and whirls enemies around. Like a large single tornado to defend a point. Or it could expand like molecular prime or discharge to ragdoll enemies away. Either or would be fine. It's just been a fantasy of mine since I got the frame to be able to drop your turbulence in place to defend a pod. I feel like this would be a lot stronger and adds to her cc.

 

Now that I look at the list physically it actually ramps up with her skills. A gentle tailwind to a violent hurricane! That is how I'd like to see her changed. Maybe it's op since it's a lot of cc and basically projectile proof but it's really not a big change to her current setup. She has always been one of my top 5 frames so I'd like to see her get some love. Her moveset is definitely showing its age compared to other frames.

[Thexceedel]

Well um making the 3rd even better will not change much. I like the changes to tail wind and dive bomb but turbulence and tornado is meh. First Turbulence dont have to be any better and its better that it is right now. Tornados locking them into a range is good but that will not change the fact of the random movements so better be able to control the tornadoes. one more thing is i dont Zephyr to be Nezha plz just sayin...

[KaeseSchnitte]

21 hours ago, Thexceedel said:

Well um making the 3rd even better will not change much. I like the changes to tail wind and dive bomb but turbulence and tornado is meh. First Turbulence dont have to be any better and its better that it is right now. Tornados locking them into a range is good but that will not change the fact of the random movements so better be able to control the tornadoes. one more thing is i dont Zephyr to be Nezha plz just sayin...

When suggesting the changes for Turbulence, my greatest concerns where to make it more robust and to add another angle to it that doesn't necessarily increase the strength of this already potent defensive ability. I do not mean to transform Turbulence into an offensive ability by suggesting that deflected projectiles are counted as Zephyr's projectiles, I want to prevent projectiles like Bombard rockets or Napalm shots to harm you or your teammates when being reflected. The damage increase is just a gimmick, countless of hours playing Nyx have showed that even if enemies start deliberately shooting at each other, they deal very little damage to themselves. Randomly deflected bullets, even when made stronger, wont magically turn Turbulence in an offensive ability.

The shockwave is my attempt to give Turbulence another angle of usage, aside from the personal protection. It would allow you to deflect projectiles in a wide range, but only during the activation of Turbulence. Imagine for example that you see a Napalm firing at a teammate in the distance that is reviving another teammate. You could activate Turbulence to send the shockwave outwards to destroy the Napalm projectile before it reaches your teammates.

The idea behind forcing the Tornados to stay inside a certain area is to give Zephyr an ability with which she is able to lock down said area. The tornados would seek out every enemy inside that area and CC him. This could be best used in Interception or Mobile Defense missions, where the primary objective is not to kill enemies, but to keep them away from consoles.

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 26.4.2017 at 11:35 PM, theMongoose said:

My dream zephyr would be something like this: 

Passive: I like the low gravity I'd keep it. Although with the current parkour system and tailwind, replacing it with something more effective might be for the best.

1: Tailwind. It's solid but would be nice if it got tweaked to feel a little more fluid. I get stuck on doors and walls too often using it. Possibly shorting the ability when you hit something solid so you can move instead of waiting out the duration like a dart in the wall. In the current parkour system we also don't need the launching function so scrap that. Or a crazy idea would make her go archwing full flight style like Titania. And finally of course combine with dive bomb.

2. Turbulence. I think it's fine as is personally since it fits the frame and is a great survival ability. Maybe make it a channeling ability? I'd also move it down to the second slot.

3. Tornado. I'd add the ability to cancel tornado. Maybe add more and reduce the size. I think 4 large ones is too little and they move so damn slow. I know there is the augment but what's the point if the cc is gone from her only cc.

4. Hurricane. I've wanted to see a defense ability on zephyr for a long time. This could be a stationary wall of clouds/wind that blocks shots and whirls enemies around. Like a large single tornado to defend a point. Or it could expand like molecular prime or discharge to ragdoll enemies away. Either or would be fine. It's just been a fantasy of mine since I got the frame to be able to drop your turbulence in place to defend a pod. I feel like this would be a lot stronger and adds to her cc.

 

Now that I look at the list physically it actually ramps up with her skills. A gentle tailwind to a violent hurricane! That is how I'd like to see her changed. Maybe it's op since it's a lot of cc and basically projectile proof but it's really not a big change to her current setup. She has always been one of my top 5 frames so I'd like to see her get some love. Her moveset is definitely showing its age compared to other frames.

I understand that there are people who like the lowered gravity. I too agree that is has some useful applications and would be fitting for a warframe like Zephyr. But not all the time. So I moved it to be only activated after using Tailwind.

Getting stuck on doors or any other terrain does indeed suck, I'll add a point to my suggestion to be able to cancel Tailwind. The launch function of Tailwind is staying because others in this thread have expressed that they still use it. In combination with the buff it would give to Divebomb, I see no point why it should not exist.

Making Turbulence channeled would have great impact on Zephyr's energy pool, so I'd rather leave it as it is and give you the option to recast it.

Your suggestion of Hurricane sounds to me like what I had in mind for Tornado. Tornado wouldn't be one huge tornado, but it would have a similar effect by concentrating the tornados it spawns in a relative confined area, making it more likely to CC all the enemies in that area.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I'm starting to gain more interest in that vortex idea.

Perhaps, sucking enemies in for duration while it's moving on it's path and then exploding into a gust of wind that sends enemies flying (ragdoll) when it's duration is up or when cast again while active.

[KaeseSchnitte]

If you mean Katabatic Vortex, then I'm sorry to say that it's intention is to be a single-use ability, a more reliable and easier to access version of the Divebomb Vortex augment. It would synergize with Divebomb, Tornado, a high-range Turbulence or any other Warframe ability that profits from having enemies condensed in one area.

Your suggestion sounds more like how Tornado functions to me.

Edited May 9, 2017 by KaeseSchnitte

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

26 minutes ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

If you mean Katabatic Vortex, then I'm sorry to say that it's intention is to be a single-use ability, a more reliable and easier to access version of the Divebomb Vortex augment. It would synergize with Divebomb, Tornado, a high-range Turbulence or any other Warframe ability that profits from having enemies condensed in one area.

Your suggestion sounds more like how Tornado functions to me.

If that's the case, I'll coim the idea I proposed as my own then since it doesn't match your vision.

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

If anything whenever zephyre gets reworked she needs more suction power to her winds, You have 4 tornadoes running amuck in a ship in most cases or at least an isolated structure there should be major pullage from the other rooms etc, I'm surprised that it only pulls mobs into them when they are near. Inaros has a better pull on his sandstorm

 

#MoreWindPower

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 9.5.2017 at 9:31 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

If that's the case, I'll coim the idea I proposed as my own then since it doesn't match your vision.

That's a good idea. I wont claim that I have the best suggestion out there. I rather try to make my suggestion consistent and as such my suggestion for Katabatic Vortex makes more sense for the rest I'm proposing.

On 9.5.2017 at 11:40 PM, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

If anything whenever zephyre gets reworked she needs more suction power to her winds, You have 4 tornadoes running amuck in a ship in most cases or at least an isolated structure there should be major pullage from the other rooms etc, I'm surprised that it only pulls mobs into them when they are near. Inaros has a better pull on his sandstorm

 

#MoreWindPower

But Inaros' Sandstorm works differently. He is animation locked for the entire duration and continuously drains his energy. In my suggestion I tried to make Tornado more impactful, not by increasing the range at which tornados suck in enemies, but by limiting the area in which the tornados can move, making them more reliable in the process. If there are enemies outside that range that need to be taken care of, you could use Katabatic Vortex to get the enemies in range of tornados.

[jarthur]

just asking but essentially you want the heavy impact mod + slow/bleed proc aoe to become the dive bomb augment mod, if this is the case why not add in toxic flight as the augment mod for tailwind (obviously change bullet jump to tailwind in mod)

links: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Impact,http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_Flight

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Zephyr needs flight. 

[KaeseSchnitte]

2 hours ago, jarthur said:

just asking but essentially you want the heavy impact mod + slow/bleed proc aoe to become the dive bomb augment mod, if this is the case why not add in toxic flight as the augment mod for tailwind (obviously change bullet jump to tailwind in mod)

links: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Impact,http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_Flight

 

The proposed augment sounds similar to heavy landing, but the effect it has on Divebomb is meant to be different than the melee mod. The augment is meant to turn a short/medium range impact with focus on damage and CC into a high range, condition and debuffing focussed ability.

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Zephyr needs flight. 

If you mean as per Tailwind, then yes, I agree and my suggestion leaves Tailwind's basic mechanic untouched.

If you mean flying like Titania, then no, Zephyr is meant to quickly take off, dash in a direction and land again, unlike Titania, who flies like an archwing.

If you mean as per reduced gravity, then yes, I agree and I've included a suggestion to reduce gravity for a limited time after using Tailwind.

If you mean always reduced gravity, then no, because I think that permanently reduced gravity is more hindering than useful.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Zephyr needs flight. 

Just to pop in an help a fellow Zephyr player; what Kaese says about the theme of the frame is true, but if you want to be more specific, flight is a bad ability at base, not just for Zephyr.

Having played Titania since her release, and having had multiple discussions with players, and questions up on devstreams, the problem with any kind of flight mode is that it prevents you from doing anything else. Titania's size has nothing to do with the problem, it actually solves the main problems; really small corridors, doors, enemies not also flying, the weapons you carry and so on. In flight you can't revive a player, activate life support, use an object, pick up an object, open a door, stand on a floor pad (like the ones in grineer hijack) or use any of the hundred or so melee weapon animations like stances, finishers, ground finishers and so on. This isn't because you're above the ground, but because you're disconnected from the game's regular pathing, detection and physics. You aren't standing on the navigation mesh, so you can't actually receive the prompt to 'press X to perform action'.

Any attempt to make flying an actual ability of Zephyr would do one of two things, or both; First, drastically reduce her usefulness as a speed-runner for quick missions like capture, or timing-critical missions like survival, because she will now have to cancel active abilities in order to perform actions; and second, remove her chance at getting an ability that actually does something.

While I might not agree with the particulars of this thread as a viable rework (even though he's adopted one of my core ideas, which is quite gratifying) I would vastly rather have his Katabatic Vortex than Flight, because it actually has a purpose.

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

11 hours ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

That's a good idea. I wont claim that I have the best suggestion out there. I rather try to make my suggestion consistent and as such my suggestion for Katabatic Vortex makes more sense for the rest I'm proposing.

But Inaros' Sandstorm works differently. He is animation locked for the entire duration and continuously drains his energy. In my suggestion I tried to make Tornado more impactful, not by increasing the range at which tornados suck in enemies, but by limiting the area in which the tornados can move, making them more reliable in the process. If there are enemies outside that range that need to be taken care of, you could use Katabatic Vortex to get the enemies in range of tornados.

Oh I meant the actual suction power of the tornadoes zephyr creates, it really feels like the amount of suction in a enclosed space should be massive considering 4 tornadoes are generating some kind of air pressure strong enough to lift people. It just feels off, It just feels like the tornadoes are not tornadoes if that makes any sense at all.

Also 100% approve of the wind tunnel sounds so much fun, I main zephyr along with my chroma and overall zephyr is a fun frame adding a wind tunnel that could potentially be used as a air cannon to launch mobs off the map with a blast sonicor sounds like the best time to be a zephyr main.

[KaeseSchnitte]

16 hours ago, Thaylien said:

While I might not agree with the particulars of this thread as a viable rework (even though he's adopted one of my core ideas, which is quite gratifying) I would vastly rather have his Katabatic Vortex than Flight, because it actually has a purpose.

Thanks for that!

11 hours ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

Oh I meant the actual suction power of the tornadoes zephyr creates, it really feels like the amount of suction in a enclosed space should be massive considering 4 tornadoes are generating some kind of air pressure strong enough to lift people. It just feels off, It just feels like the tornadoes are not tornadoes if that makes any sense at all.

Also 100% approve of the wind tunnel sounds so much fun, I main zephyr along with my chroma and overall zephyr is a fun frame adding a wind tunnel that could potentially be used as a air cannon to launch mobs off the map with a blast sonicor sounds like the best time to be a zephyr main.

Logically speaking it would make sense, but in terms of balance this becomes another issue. Tornado would work too much like Katabatic Vortex and be too strong as a CC ability, if it would have such a huge range.