Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.

[Callsign]

Normally, I would stay off the forums but, I feel obliged to comment further on this. If you care to read this DE. I understand these changes are "Subject to change." With these buffs and nerfs.... Do you have a plan/set threshold on how you "balance" your weapons etc? What are your goals with these balances? I understand we have alot of weapons. I don't think this best approach to dealing with the problem. A big problem is enemy scaling. For what do we use these tools for? We have spent a great deal of time with these weapons putting forma etc and using them for own reasons whatever that maybe. If we must concentrate on only weapons, a suggestion would be need a vote on some better ways to approach balancing these weapons with the "entire community" or ask the community on some steps to approach this more efficiently for the future of the game. The whole picture as a whole needs to be looked for what we using these weapons for. In the end these changes would not affect me too much. I like make themes with different weapons for fun, challenge even it isn't the best weapons. I don't really dislike any particular weapon. I like to use everything one way to prevent boredom. However nerfing weapons to the point where it discourages people from using them at all is not the way to go. 

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Glad to see some changes coming to weapons that have been creepin' up the power chain for quite a while.
The buffs to the lesser used weapons are nice as well.

Thanks a lot!

[Cytobel]

@Callsign  Well said.  I'm in particular against discouraging use of weapons.  In Warframe, this is the major effect of self-damage AoEs (to single out one mechanic I'm really harping about).

[KettleTicket]

I don't like the mention of the fire rate increase for the Attica. It's the reason why I use it over the Attica in most cases.

Further, increasing fire rate, but reducing recoil makes no sense. The faster you fire a weapon, the more detrimental the recoil should be.. not the other way around.

 

Looks like I'll be seeing more Simulors and less T. Boltaces in future games.

[Callsign]

7 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

@Callsign  Well said.  I'm in particular against discouraging use of weapons.  In Warframe, this is the major effect of self-damage AoEs (to single out one mechanic I'm really harping about).

One my initial concerns was removing pretty much the "rocket jump mechanic" a thing that made the tonkor unique. It isn't final yet. Also, we still have to look @ the bigger picture.

[DiabolusUrsus]

This is looking really promising, but I'm still crossing my fingers that you guys get around to addressing the ROOT issues causing so many weapons to fall by the wayside:

Critical damage and the status system.

Critical damage outshines standard damage by miles, and for no real reason when we can get critical chance as high as we can currently. Either something is a crit weapon and it can be made very powerful, or it isn't and it can't. Yes, standard weapons are still viable, but the difference is glaring when you get up towards Sortie-level.

Status is gimmicky. It can be made to work, and be rather effective, but it's still a frustrating and unimaginative system to work with. Status as it is now feels very bland compared to what we had in 1.0, even with the absurdity of "rainbow" builds factored in.

Please start thinking about ways you can tweak these systems so that weapons can be made to work with them instead of relying on arbitrary stat distributions.

[Gaki_no_Tsukai]

Okay DE, you're finally on the right track, sort of. Now, all you have to do, is buff a few more guns, and change scaling a bit. Nerfing the simulor or tonkor accomplishes nothing, there are PLENTY of cheesy guns out there. I feel self damage on the tonkor isn't a bad thing, but at the same time, it does make it less fun than it used to be. I haven't used it since your last nerf to the damage, but it sure was fun to blow myself up into the air with it. Mainly though, I'm concerned about the simulor nerfs. See, I use the simulor, to ease the pain of farming missions. Since you guys changed the void, and draco, I have found myself having to run more farming missions. Now, it's not a bad thing per se, but farming resources, ducats, credits, etc went from tedious, to just plain S#&$ty. Bere requires an actual group, titan is ok, akkad is just plain terrible... trying to pug these things, well, it sucks DE. I solo farm for a clan that is now full of friends who all quit warframe, and I've put too much time in to justify just letting he dojo rot. Basically I am a solo player right now, and the simulor is one of those things that is keeping me playing the game. Please guys, I'm begging you, as a grizzled vet now that has been through a number of changes (you guys kind of owe mirage's for taking away her 4th clone damage you know... I haven't forgot, that horrid nerf disguised as a good guy "buff" and if I ever meet one of you peeps face to face, I have stern words about that change being horrid) so please, could you undo the simulor nerfs?

 

I dunno, maybe the time has finally come to just retire warframe, or take another long break. You guys just keep swinging the nerf bat and killing fun stuff, you make farming more tedious, you shaft solo players with guns like the Hema and Ignis Wraith. I'd be REAL curious to see a graph of mag players over time, your nerfs utterly ruined that warframe, and created a feckin' meme about it, better nerf mag! So please DE, nerfs are NOT the solution. Something else cheesy will just take its place, and in the process you guys kill actually fun stuff. Like terminator nyx too, why the nerf guys? Where is the harm? So it made farming kuva easier, big whoop, I don't even farm kuva because running sorties with a pug is feckin' god awful, so I don't even get to use Riven mods. On top of that, the few riven mods I have, I've been utterly SHAFTED by rng.

 

I just don't get it DE, been around a long time now... I've seen you nerf weapon, after frame, after weapon, after mission... Your guys nerf bat is strong like a tonkor, how about you nerf the nerf bat, and start swinging the buff bat around to make more guns better. I think it's great you're finally deciding to buff some under used guns, but DE, there are a LOT of under used guns, more buffs, moar buffs I say.

 

Also please... spare the synoid simulor, if you nerf it, then all the synoid weapons will be trash tier. Your ammo nerfs to the gammacore were insane, past lvl 50 it runs out of ammo SO fast, even with a prime ammo mutation on it. The hammer... Well, does anyone even use the synoid hammer? Sorry but it was trash tier at release... So if you nerf the simulor, then the syndicate is going to have basically nothing worthwhile. Meanwhile the Telos Akbolto have a seemingly uncapped fire rate, do FAR more damage than the gammacore, and has much MUCH better ammo retention... Meanwhile the sancti tigris can one shot most anything in the game. Meanwhile the telos boltace gets off with no damage nerf... I mean cmon.

[Friede]

Please decrease the amount of particles of the Telos Boltace. It is screen blinding :(

[Duduminador]

Is this actually happening??? Is this real life?

Wow, just wow. It took over a year of daily clusters of threads of people requesting Synoid Simulor to be nerfed. But it's happening. Sure it took hell long. But I can honestly say. I've never seen a developers actually take as many requests as you do. I understand it's hard, to sort what is shear whining and what is a valid feedback. But you still do.

I've wanted these for longer than I've wanted any new frame.
Actually going back to Warframe now.

[Bladereap3r]

,,,its was just a matter of when...so suck it up and get ready!

[Fluffdadmoonbear]

I don't like the boltace change unless it does the damage with every spin still.

 

I really like the idea of an AOE based melee but if the boltace has a cooldown and you have to switch to it to use a cooldown ability it just seems so bad.

 

Maybe revert it to how it was with a cooldown? So you don't have to switch to use a cooldown ability?

[Blazability]

Free forma per owned weapon you invested in? Cool.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Blazability
Hmm. Read that wrong.

[Mousarchy]

As a person that wanted the tonkor nerf i think thats going to far. its SPOSE to be an unruley child. insane damage, with the downside of shots flying everywere.
(I approve of self dmg and shorter fuse but the crit nerf is just too far)

[NinjazzFTW]

If you're going to refund anything, refund the catalyst as well. If these stats were in place for the weapons in the first place, I doubt they would have been worth investing in the first place (especially the Telos Boltace).

A single forma per weapon and an affinity booster means that this is an opportunity to tweak them to satisfactory when actually they're just bad weapons now.

I'm not mad you're nerfing these weapons, I'm mad you're wasting the time I've put into them.

[MJ12]

25 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

@Callsign  Well said.  I'm in particular against discouraging use of weapons.  In Warframe, this is the major effect of self-damage AoEs (to single out one mechanic I'm really harping about).

I think the Tonkor needs a nerf but self-damage is not a good mechanic in Warframe. Practically speaking it doesn't work because of the distances you engage at and how many fast melee enemies exist. It's just not fun and it really doesn't balance explosive weapons compared to other ways to hit multiple targets, like shotguns.

[ALEX_IV]

I would really like to understand how do you determine what weapons, why, and how do they get changes. 

As someone already mentioned, just modifying a couple weapons doesn't solve the general problem that exists with weapon balance. 

If there is a weapon that is clearly broken, a nerf is justified. But if that is the case, I don't understand the (synoid) simulor change. The problem is the Mirage/Simulor combination. I mean, people don't even have to aim. Just spam the thing and go. It cheapens the game because it almost requires no effort.

Also, some weapons are strong because people have put the time and effort to make them strong. And because they required effort to obtain. For example the Telos Boltace. First you have to fulfill all the requirements of the syndicate to get it (or spend plat). Then you needs the mods for it. And getting the endo for them. Etc. For example, I spent a LOT of time farming the acolytes in the event to get maiming strike. Only then does the Telos Boltace get really good. Then why are you changing the Telos Boltace mechanic? What's the idea behind the change? BTW, people use the energy wave to open containers. I don't know if that is going to work now.

It IS expected that some weapons are more powerful than others, more if modded (and forma) properly (that is, unless they are clearly broken). Else, what would be the point in obtaining other weapons? Just stick to your Lato and be done with it.

Some changes are good, they make some weapons more viable with a buff and others not so overpowered (when there is no justification for them to be that powerful). They also make sense, like the Tonkor dealing self-damage, which is obvious it needs to have. But just changing a couple of isolated cases isn't a general balance change and just tends to annoy and drive away the people that have spent a lot of time and effort in some weapons.

 

PS: I appreciate the forma and booster thing but... well, first of all, some people have put more than 1 forma in some weapons. I mean, people often use 2-4 forma to make a weapon good. Also, the booster has the problem that is temporary. If someone doesn't have the time to put the booster to good use, it is going to be wasted. And what about the catalyst people have used on those weapons? You don't put a catalyst on a weapon you know you won't use later. People put the catalyst there because they knew they were good weapons. Now the have spent catalyst on a weapon they may not continue using now.

Edited March 23, 2017 by ALEX_IV

[Ma5kot]

.... Cut the Nerf of death and i love the update.

Can you not nerf something moderately and not make it in to total crap? Please stop nerf killing, Nerf it a little if it is still to powerful nerf a little again.

[Mousarchy]

18 minutes ago, MJ12 said:

I think the Tonkor needs a nerf but self-damage is not a good mechanic in Warframe. Practically speaking it doesn't work because of the distances you engage at and how many fast melee enemies exist. It's just not fun and it really doesn't balance explosive weapons compared to other ways to hit multiple targets, like shotguns.

guess im speciall. I like the cahnce at self damage. gives me a good risk/reward feeling. course if its such an issue then what would you suggest to keep my self-dmg? bigger boom? more boom? Id be down forthat..i jsut want my explosives to feel like explosives. and it would be nice if we had more than one range to fight in. I tend to shoot in ranges taht actually keep me from heavy cal..would be nice if we could work in that range existing for everybody to fight in

[MJ12]

Just now, Ordosan said:

guess im speciall. I like the cahnce at self damage. gives me a good risk/reward feeling. course if its such an issue then what would you suggest to keep my self-dmg? bigger boom? more boom? Id be down forthat..i jsut want my explosives to feel like explosives. and it would be nice if we had more than one range to fight in. I tend to shoot in ranges taht actually keep me from heavy cal..would be nice if we could work in that range existing for everybody to fight in

If someone wanted to mod a weapon to have a larger AoE in exchange for self-damage or whatever, I would be okay with it. But it shouldn't be the default state of explosive weapons. It should be an active choice you engage in. E.g. if explosive weapons right now are too good, maybe they should have damage dropoff with range from the epicenter, and then there's a mod that removes this at the cost of self damage or whatever.

[Kingninja14141]

 i just sold my attica riven ... -_-

[Mousarchy]

Just now, MJ12 said:

If someone wanted to mod a weapon to have a larger AoE in exchange for self-damage or whatever, I would be okay with it. But it shouldn't be the default state of explosive weapons. It should be an active choice you engage in. E.g. if explosive weapons right now are too good, maybe they should have damage dropoff with range from the epicenter, and then there's a mod that removes this at the cost of self damage or whatever.

As a person who enjoys big booms id be okay with this. as long as we ge a bit of a dmg boost to our lesser blast cousins.

[DEDENX]

Wait... Weren't riven mods designed to fix these issues?  If the weapons are getting a rebalance, why do we need riven mods?

[dragonquest]

 

The DE can nerfa to tonkor more then I want to see if it is going to withstand the cries then they will have to buffar again because the tonkor was one of the unicar weapon that had Crowd control with damage now it screwed of time

[Dracario]

Just now, DEDENX said:

Wait... Weren't riven mods designed to fix these issues?  If the weapons are getting a rebalance, why do we need riven mods?

because Riven mods are used to help the weapons that are slightly weaker into viability and probably late game. However it cannot help those who do not have anything going for them (i.e. crit chance and damage AND status on Panthera, Crit Chance and Damage on miter) or have mechanics that are outdated (Mutalist Quanta, Buzlok). These buffs are to help those 'trash/mastery fodder' weapons become actual weapons.

[DarkShadow7101]

If we have a school lens on one of the nerfed weapons, will we get another one?