Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.

[JalakBali]

My (early) thoughts on this:

 

Good job on fixing some underwhelming weapons, hopefully this will be followed suit with more underpowered weapons, especially melee and pistols. Can't say for sure if the changes would be enough to make them better until I actually get to test them.

 

About the nerfed weapons:

Simulors had it coming. They're the easiest weapon to use in the game. I even abused them a lot until I get too bored. They appear to be more active now that before since to get the same damage per explosion now you have to manually detonate the orbs. But I could see how this might be a giant nerf, so much that the weapon is completely useless. Before this, the damage comes from orbs combining. So much that players ignore manual detonations. But it's because you could burst them and get much more explosions from a clip. Now you have to shoot 3, which gets piddling damage and tiny AoE area that they might as well be ignored, and then one single explosion when manually detonated. The DPS is, roughly, cut by 70% and an extra action is added to get the damage going. This might be too much of a nerf but I can't say for sure until I try it in-game. If this indeed became too much, I would suggest increasing the damage from the manual detonation, like around 50%.

 

Telos Boltace.... I would have settled with a cooldown on the slide attack. As for the new mechanic, I have to see it for myself before judging if this is an actual nerf or a fun mechanic. It's obviously a nerf to those abusing macros so good riddance. Note that with the new mechanic you can still use macros to make slide attack easier, you just can't spam it from start to finish. Well, you still can, but you won't do much good other than looking like a dork.

 

Now, the elephant in the room: The Tonkor. The change is a massive nerf to its main use: as a point blank shotgun. The self damage is also a problem that DE seems to ignore, as if players avoid the other launcher weapons simply due to Tonkor being better DPS and less on the fact that Tonkor has no self damage. The refusal to deal with One-Hit-Kill self damage might end up with making all launcher weapons fall into niche uses, like farming Infested Defense, instead of getting the rest into regular use. This is a two-fold problem that needs to be addressed: One-Hit-Kill on yourself is a dumb mechanic especially on a game where you're supposed to never stop moving, and that projectiles are hard to see on a busy screen.

 

The latter can be addressed by making all projectiles have a HUD icon. We have a mechanic where we could shoot missiles and grenades but we can't see the damn things because they're too tiny on a busy screen. The former needs a bit more overhaul, like limiting self damage to, say, 50% of our max EHP. So self damage hurts, yes, but you won't kill yourself unless you're completely oblivious and got caught in the blast radius twice.

Edited March 23, 2017 by JalakBali

[RetroNomad]

33 minutes ago, maumastoks said:

@[DE]Rebecca

Yea, perfect decision. Game had no veteran content to begin with and now make it complete crap - makes it easier to decide to leave Warframe for Mass Effect Andromeda. Thanks, I got your point!

 

Bye?

[Ethermie]

3 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Well, unless you can make Ogris rockets do a 90 degree turn at a corner, then ya, I'd argue most people can't shoot around corners with a weapon. You GOTTA trade me this mod you have man! I'll give ya 1000 plat for it.

Jokes aside: The bouncing can be a negative, but seeing as its pretty damn easy to predict where a grenade will bounce to if you have a basic understanding of physics and how angles work (which pretty much everyone does as its something you deal with every day) then it isn't really an issue. Especially when we have a literal trajectory indicator inbuilt with the tonkor. Couldn't be much easier to not mess up angles and grenade bounces with that.

I wont need to get good with it. I've always treated the tonkor like it did have self damage because I absolutely hated being launched uncontrollably up into the air because I was too close to a grenade. So I've always avoided my own shots regardless. I've always treated the tonkor no different to other launcher weapons in that regard.

 

only problem is that they dont really follow physics either.. especially with multishot and heavy calibur.. also you only get launched in the air if you step on the granades.. but remember the blast has much greater aoe than just stepping on it.. and even 1mm in to the radius will kill you.. so i wish you good luck... probably you can do it.. for me it will be the death of the weapon.. that is why i am even talking here despite being silent mostly. 

Also I am not a tonkor fanboy. i havnt used it in months.. but rly enjoyed when i did.. seeing it die like this isnt really acceptable for me.

[MrCrowBlack]

Question : Will there be a melee and secondary buff too? (hoping for orthos prime, as something like T.Boltace predecessor, and maybe angstrum)

[(XBOX)Slimm qp ReapeR]

This is cool as this was needed a long time ago. But that assimilate nyx "fix" not so much... please revert

[Artekkor]

This is awesome news!

However: single forma per weapon seems unfair. What about catalysts? Those things are rare and people will feel bad for using them on weapons that are no longer godly.

[Cytobel]

24 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Well thats a scaling issue, not a tonkor issue isn't it? Completely different problems. Also, if you've started to hit a point where even a tonkor is only tickling enemies, well, thats kinda a you problem isn't it? Its certainly not utility related or self damage related. WF scales almost infinity, so bringing up the tankiness of lvl200 mobs etc is kinda a moot point when it comes to balance. I'd argue the main reason people use the tonkor was that it was arguably the most powerful launcher in terms of pure min/maxing. The lack of self damage was icing on the cake that people grew too used to. Now that its going away, they realise they might have to stop and think for half a second before shooting again.  

True enough.  I'm not in favor of the mechanic of self damage; the Tonkor was never a thing to me.  Make no mistake, I put in enough time to level it a bit for my Tonkorbomber Zephyr, and that was just because of its synergy with her.  I can just as easily switch to something else instead.  The reworked Ogris COULD be a thing, but I doubt I'll be using Zephyr much until a rework anyway.

My "loss" isn't a thing.  It's a few formas, a catalyst, and a weapon I don't feel like using without an amusing little quirk it currently has.

I do agree that there is much a-do about precious little, however there are some valid concerns emerging.  And yeah, the goddamn scaling is its own issue.  Unfortunately, weapon adjustments touch on that subject at least tangentially, and I need to mention that consideration for those of us who DO go for extended runs in survival and who want more decent choices for our kit.

I think we've a difference of opinion on self damage and we seem to agree on other thing.

[Kracken]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Weapon Balance Pass.
 

As we near the staggering number of 300 weapons (including variants), the task of balancing grows increasingly daunting. At its core, Warframe is a co-operative game; having powerful tools is a boon to a team rather than a disadvantage. However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo. Aside from the handful of dominating weapons, there are even more that have been overlooked.

We have taken a look at our Arsenal and adjusted many weapons - mostly Primaries at this time. Everything below is subject to change. This is our current plan and gives you a general idea of what is coming in the next big Update!

We have buffed 10 underpowered weapons which have unique mechanics that have been overlooked due to their poor stats.

Great news !
But ... only ten ?! i have at least ONE more weapon to buff.
STRADAVAR

For a MR8 weapon he is awfully weak underwhelming. You can compare its fire modes to a Braton and a Latron (stats are nearly exactly the same). And both of them are on the same page and those two are MR0 weapons... To put it simple ... Stradavar needs MORE juice !

[StinkyPygmy]

5 minutes ago, Ethermie said:

only problem is that they dont really follow physics either.. especially with multishot and heavy calibur.. also you only get launched in the air if you step on the granades.. but remember the blast has much greater aoe than just stepping on it.. and even 1mm in to the radius will kill you.. so i wish you good luck... probably you can do it.. for me it will be the death of the weapon.. that is why i am even talking here despite being silent mostly. 

Also I am not a tonkor fanboy. i havnt used it in months.. but rly enjoyed when i did.. seeing it die like this isnt really acceptable for me.

I realise that the blast radius is larger then the launch radius, but as a result I had a lot of practice staying well away from my shots. Adding HC with multishot is not a fault with the weapon. As a player you actively choose to put that on the weapon knowing that it will make predicting where shots will land almost impossible. ergo, thats a risk you have to accept. personally that sounds like a hoot to me. I love the idea of spreading 2 or so explode death orbs around. Without MS and HC, yeah they follow the trajectory and bounce angles just fine.

I just wish people would give it a try and practice before doomsaying and assuming by default it will kill something for them. Try considering that you only feel that way because you are so used to things working one way and have had no actual practice with things working as they do now. Sometime syou gotta try things rather then just throwing your arms in the air and giving up. especially in WF. I'm personally more upset with the 10% reduction in crit because I won't be able to redcrit with my tonkor riven anymore :(

[Ethermie]

2 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I realise that the blast radius is larger then the launch radius, but as a result I had a lot of practice staying well away from my shots. Adding HC with multishot is not a fault with the weapon. As a player you actively choose to put that on the weapon knowing that it will make predicting where shots will land almost impossible. ergo, thats a risk you have to accept. personally that sounds like a hoot to me. I love the idea of spreading 2 or so explode death orbs around. Without MS and HC, yeah they follow the trajectory and bounce angles just fine.

I just wish people would give it a try and practice before doomsaying and assuming by default it will kill something for them. Try considering that you only feel that way because you are so used to things working one way and have had no actual practice with things working as they do now. Sometime syou gotta try things rather then just throwing your arms in the air and giving up. especially in WF. I'm personally more upset with the 10% reduction in crit because I won't be able to redcrit with my tonkor riven anymore :(

you understand the change will be permanent right? later you find out it is actually impossible to change back and thats it.. these changes are still under consideration (atleast the post says so) so this is the point you either voice your opinion or let it happen.. also i am happy about that crit reduction.. hell it would be better if the damage was reduced a bit too instead of self damage.. an AOE shoudnt be able to kill everything anyway.. AOE is to clear out weaker enemies while more powerful accurate weapons like snipers for heavier enemies..

[korndolorous]

I agree with tonkor neft but 25%CC i think it's too much
30% CC would be fine for me

[mrrobotto67]

The changes of the Ogris seems kinda meh.

Why are we decreasing the damage on impact? Why a missile launcher is weaker than a shotgun? Why our Ogris doesn't have a lock on mechanic like our enemies have? the radious of explosion wasn't already 6? Why are we still doing the charge mechanic instead of making it a regular shot but just one explosive in the chamber and a fairly long reload time? Being this a missile launcher, shouldn't this weapon guarantee at least a blast proc on direct hit?

In relation to the Tonkor ... the only change i think the weapon needed actually was the self damage, give the tonkor the same self damage as the other weapons and probably we are all set with it, there was no need to change the Critical Chance.

[Sar.K.Asmus]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Simulor:

The Simulor's entry into Arsenals marked one of the more unique moments in Weapon history. It's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

• The Status Chance has been increased to 30%.
• A Critical Chance of 2% has been added. This was an erroneous addition that had no effect since the unique nature of this weapon made it unclear which Stat field was being assigned to the orb output after the changes. The existing Critical Stats have not changed, and this added stat can be disregarded.
• The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-6 meters.
• The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 to 200 when detonated.
• On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-3 from 3-8
• On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from from 150-250 to 20-40
• The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 3.

Synoid Simulor:

Considering the Simulor was the only Primary Cephalon weapon, it was easy to see a Synoid version entering Arsenals. Like its vanilla counterpart, it's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

• The Status Chance increased to 35%
• A Critical Chance of 5% has been added.See Above.
• The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-8 meters.
• The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 to 250 when detonated.
• On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-3 from 3-8
• On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from from 150-250 to 20-50
• The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 3.

 

Thank you for this much needed changes, BUT the changes made to the Simulor/Synoid Simulor won't change anything for the annoying Mirage+Simulor/Synoid Simulor combination.

Why?

Because of Hall of Mirrors Mirage still have to shoot once (Shoots 3 balls at the same time) then press alt fire once and get the same damage and the same range as before and clear the room as before.

Solution to this problem:
Balls produced from clones SHOULD ONLY COMBINE WITH BALLS FROM EACH CLONE. Every clone should count as an individual Player. Balls from different players should not combine (I'm pretty sure they do).

If they still do then the Mirage+Simulor/Synoid Simulor will still exist and these changes were meaningless.

[StinkyPygmy]

9 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

True enough.  I'm not in favor of the mechanic of self damage; the Tonkor was never a thing to me.  Make no mistake, I put in enough time to level it a bit for my Tonkorbomber Zephyr, and that was just because of its synergy with her.  I can just as easily switch to something else instead.  The reworked Ogris COULD be a thing, but I doubt I'll be using Zephyr much until a rework anyway.

My "loss" isn't a thing.  It's a few formas, a catalyst, and a weapon I don't feel like using without an amusing little quirk it currently has.

I do agree that there is much a-do about precious little, however there are some valid concerns emerging.  And yeah, the goddamn scaling is its own issue.  Unfortunately, weapon adjustments touch on that subject at least tangentially, and I need to mention that consideration for those of us who DO go for extended runs in survival and who want more decent choices for our kit.

I think we've a difference of opinion on self damage and we seem to agree on other thing.

Thats a fair point. My major issue was more HOW overdramatic people are getting over what is, mostly not a huge deal. Especially if you just practice with the changes for a bit and adjust. once people do that it will be automatic. Who knows, we will see when it drops. I'm personally not worried and I'll be glad to have reasons to occasionally use something else in the launcher area. because I can see how the tonkor might potentially be suicidal on tight infested maps with  a million mobs in your face and hard to predict grenade bounces. There are so many particle effects not even I think i could remember where every grenade was. especially with that 3 second timer.

[Senketsu_]

this new makes me very happy. I can finally start using the Panthra, and Buzlock, and Attica again!

[Thyriell]

No complaints here. A little sad to be losing my room wiping Boltace, but I think that's for the best. Too much power in one weapon makes the others feel obsolete, and with 300, well...

[StinkyPygmy]

8 minutes ago, Ethermie said:

you understand the change will be permanent right? later you find out it is actually impossible to change back and thats it.. these changes are still under consideration (atleast the post says so) so this is the point you either voice your opinion or let it happen.. also i am happy about that crit reduction.. hell it would be better if the damage was reduced a bit too instead of self damage.. an AOE shoudnt be able to kill everything anyway.. AOE is to clear out weaker enemies while more powerful accurate weapons like snipers for heavier enemies..

I have no problem with people voicing their opinions. Its more the melodrama involved with something they are yet to even try. That being said, what makes you think these changes would be permanent? Its not exactly uncommon for DE to do something, only to totally revert it on community backlash or revisit it and tone said changes down (or up). granted they don't do that with everything, but there is no reason to believe that it wont change again at a later date or if there is enough negative feedback.

[-Kramer-]

So many complaints about Telos Boltace, but my scouad mates have ALWAYS been happy when, with this weapon, i could waypoint them a sculpture, a syndic insignia or discover a star... Lowering good weapons dont make "bad" players better. I like to change my stuffs and use various melees depending on mission : Zenistar, Telos Boltace, Lesion, Dex Dakra... So i guess i will just use an ignis where i was using Telos Boltace and forget about all the fun I've had with the Boltace.
There is so many way, in this game, to ruin the gameplay of other scouade mates : Banshee's ult when it's not needed, same for the Ember's ult... If i don't enjoy the gameplay (wich is finally quite rare), I go in another scouade. But i'm not gonna ask to break these Ult as I'm enjoying using them too.
I'm definitively not against more balance, but i'm quite sad that, concerning the Boltace, it's a total change of gameplay.

[PGDraxos]

So I am personally happy with MOST of the changes presented. I think that some of the buffs should be a bit more generous, the Hind specifically but we dont know the exact numbers, and I honestly feel like most of the nerfs are necessary but maybe a but heavy handed.

I am personally fine with the simulor series being put 6 feet under and staying there for the next 7 years. 
 

I think that the Tonkor nerf was enough without affecting the Crit chance. It being able to kill us AND making it more likely to do so is enough. I feel like it is redundant to then decrease its damage.

The Telos Boltace is honestly the only one that bothers me. I think that the weapon now doesnt really... do anything? it doesnt feel special? I mean yeah it has a mechanic that is cool but so does the other Syndi Melee weapons and they dont matter. The special thing has to be cool and effective and based upon the description of the new ability I dont think that it will be effective or interesting to use.

This is just my thoughts and I hope that DE considers them even briefly before implementing the changes.

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

12 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

5 Forma Tonkor, 5 Forma Synoid Simulor, 3 Forma Telos Boltace and I get 3 Forma? Dafuq?!

(Well...I used Simulor and TB only for Syndicate chestopening, but still...)

Same, put in way more forma & time then what they are giving back. Wat?!

[PGDraxos]

3 minutes ago, Kramer17 said:

So many complaints about Telos Boltace, but my scouad mates have ALWAYS been happy when, with this weapon, i could waypoint them a sculpture, a syndic insignia or discover a star... Lowering good weapons dont make "bad" players better. I like to change my stuffs and use various melees depending on mission : Zenistar, Telos Boltace, Lesion, Dex Dakra... So i guess i will just use an ignis where i was using Telos Boltace and forget about all the fun I've had with the Boltace.
There is so many way, in this game, to ruin the gameplay of other scouade mates : Banshee's ult when it's not needed, same for the Ember's ult... If i don't enjoy the gameplay (wich is finally quite rare), I go in another scouade. But i'm not gonna ask to break these Ult as I'm enjoying using them too.
I'm definitively not against more balance, but i'm quite sad that, concerning the Boltace, it's a total change of gameplay.

I think that Kramer actually made an excellent post about my opinon on the Telos Boltace right as I was writing my post and felt like I should show my agreement.

[Cytobel]

@StinkyPygmy. The Infested are not a minor consideration for my logic, LOL.  TBH I tend to midrange high mobility as a Volt, and that gets MESSY.  The Tonkor isn't really a choice for me now due to it's hit-or-fuse, but after a self damage addition?  No option at all.

This is coming from an idiot who's really craving a +400% Multishot riven for the Kulstar.  That would be like falling into desert with cocaine sand and all the 80's layed out before me instead of a landscape...  and a neon kaleidoscopic sky.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Cytobel
visuals

[StinkyPygmy]

1 minute ago, Cytobel said:

@StinkyPygmy. The Infested are not a minor consideration for my logic, LOL.  TBH I tend to midrange high mobility as a Volt, and that gets MESSY.  The Tonkor isn't really a choice for me now due to it's hit-or-fuse, but after a self damage addition?  No option at all.

This is coming from an idiot who's really craving a +400% Multishot riven for the Kulstar.  That would be like falling into desert with cocaine sand and all the 80's layed out before me instead of a landscape...

lol 400% multishot kulstar on an infested corpus carrier survival. Now thats the real endgame(TM)

[SANYA501]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Onyx Guarrd said:

5 Forma Tonkor, 5 Forma Synoid Simulor, 3 Forma Telos Boltace and I get 3 Forma? Dafuq?!

yeap, this is what we get after sunken a lot of forma, time, effort to make the weapon decent and those jelly brains just know how to complaint it when people get more kills in PVE game....

Edited March 23, 2017 by SANYA501

[Ivia]

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The Homing Beacon will now only stick to NPC & Characters.

And the wikia said: 

• Beacons can be stuck on walls in choke points or other narrow areas where enemies are expected to pass through, allowing for sustained fire against enemies while keeping out of sight.

Goodbye, special usage lol

 

Kinda not sure if the Panthera buffed enough for me though, since I only use the alt-fire mode xD

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ivia
Express of the Panthera?