Jump to content

Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.


Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Urska said:

if you cant handle a simple change, due to game balance. IE if more then haft people use the same weapon. it needs to be changed. why? becuse why waste time on other weapons if ppl use the same one only... BTW that weapon isnt that great and tbh only ppl who used it are ones who are 100% < some cuss word lol> and need to learn how to aim or play a fps right lol..... like really... also DE dosnt care about some toaster gamer rage quiting lol

 

btw its not even a big part of the game....very small part.. your raging over some like thing they changed the color of armor tbh... their soooo many other much better weapons.. :/ and i love how you bring up the amount of money you put into WF. braging about it lol....just sad....

 

also your rage post 100% shows you have NO idea what game balancing is OR how it works... its quite sad

No man you are the unreasonable one. This guy has a legitimate concern that many veterans have. Most YouTube warframe players just brown nose. Tactical potatoe has spoken before about the nerf mentality. The problem is the players being screwed out of money. This founder supported the game at inception and bought Plat and his concerns are not being addressed. I have no real problem with nerfs but DE does nothing to refund in some way the effort people put into weapons. This guy spent real money for rivens and now it's gone. Few times they've handle things properly such as the nerf of steel charge when they gave people a legendary core to compensate effort of leveling steel charge. If they went about this nerf like they did for steel charge nerf there would be no problem. Refund the number of forma and lense on nerfed weapon and give a riven choice if you have one for the weapon. 

I don't know maybe you're a free only player and feel like you can't complain but us paying member feel screwed when things like this happen. We in good faith support the game but devs won't listen until they create such a mess that they have to retract things or loose big chunks of payers. It's happened many times before so I don't know why they keep doing it. 

Edited by CrimsonFAQer
Phone double click
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm really starting to think nerf is done by public demand, not weapon over-usage or over-power.

I've seen a lots of posts talking about "telos boltace spam". Exceptly when playing with my friend which was using it to open crates easily for medallion, I only recall seeing a telos boltace spammer twice. One was doing literally no damage and was useless, the other one was indeed spamming, but cheated ? nope.

Same feelings about tonkor or mirage-simulor : I am not seeing them much in game ...

That makes me asking a single question : might them be abused in PS4 and xbox version of warframe and not PC ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the case that this is still the place for discussing the proposed balance changes i want to add in. 

 

IMHO the nerfes are a bit harsh, at least they look like it on paper. While I agree that especially the tonkor, sinoid simulor and telos boltace are very strong weapons that are able to nullify any gameplay for the whole party I feel that making them useless is a suboptimal way to go.

When you compare the nerfs to the buffs that other weapons recieved its a bit hilarious. Sure, the buffs are nice and all, but not as completely game changing as the nerfs are. What is the thinking process behind that? For example, if you would just rework the particle effect on the telos boltace and remove its auto bleed and pure slash damage on its slide attack, it would allready been significantly weaker then before, but it'd remain as an effective "can-opener" and as a very good choice against low level mobs. 

The tonkor could use a nerf in damage, reducing its base crit chance and multiplicator for example, or reduce the base damage. But with the changes of how the grenades behave I feel the self damage is a bit over the top. Considering the low MR it needs and how easy it is to get it always was way overperforming anyway. Same goes for the Atterax though, but atleast you need very rare and expensive mods for that to make it into an easy mode weapon.

 

Can't say much about the sinoid simulor, in my eyes its the most boring weapon in the game and i cant see why people use it besides just making the game unfun for everyone :D But similiar things could be said about quake banshees or poison saryns or at lower lvl embers.

 

 

Also i feel that refunding 1 forma and a 3day affinity boost to the players that own these weapons is nothing more then a very small consolidation. I've put like 6 formas on the tonkor and 3 on the telos boltace and as a buyer of the prime acces i couldnt care less about affinity boosters. If you make weapons unplayable (not speaking of players that invested 100s of plats for a decent riven), or at least nowhere close in effectiveness, at least make up for that.

 

Edited by Van_Hoven
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To people, while few, who think that self damage on launchers shouldn't be a thing.  Claiming it's too fast paced to worry about self damage, there's the chance a team mate can troll me.  Just learn to pay attention to your team mates and surroundings.

To those saying the simulor looks like a buff...Sure, it's a buff to damage.  A buff to damage that will hit almost nothing, same with the status increase on it.  What good is damage or status if you can't hit anything with it.  It's been nerfed to the ground, it will rest in pieces.  It's become a primary weapon that deals aoe damage that has virtually no range, on the shot or the aoe effect.  It's completely garbage and will probably retain the Faint Riven disposition.

On the telos boltace.  This weapon was just released, perhaps you should have thought it through before you released it.  You say your against spin to win then you made a spin to win weapon, then you nerf the weapon.  Make up your minds.

On pretty much all of the "buffed" weapons.  This won't increase how much they are used.  It'll make a handful of people happy but no one is going to use them.  Sure they have some interesting things, some of them are really cool, no pun intended.  But comparatively they won't measure up to weapons that currently wreck everything put in front of them out of the box.

Rather than waste time buffing and nerfing here and there, revamp the entire weapons system.  Not everything has to be "god tier."  Stop with the power creep, that's just making everything that came before new weapons less and less useful.  Weapons with fun mechanics will always have their place, people will use them, some will master them.  Not everything needs to be used all of the time, nor will it ever be.

All of the time you have put into this was completely wasted, it really won't change much.  Figure your game out and plan accordingly.  You'll wind up doing a lot better.

PS, i'd better be getting more than just one forma per weapon.  That's bs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, willie989 said:

As an avid user of the Buzlok, I can assure you there are some pretty nifty uses for tagging the terrain/objects. I've tagged doorways before, then hid around the corner just holding the trigger. Who needs to tag enemies when you can cover an area instead? I would LOVE to see that ability stay :c

other than that, really liking the looks of this update. Can finally use the fun weapons in upper content :D

Well, I said this:

On 2017-03-22 at 8:58 PM, Azamagon said:

-snip-

Buzlok
Statistically: Nice, nice and NICE!

Mechanically: Homing Beacon only sticking to NPCs and Characters HEAVILY reduces creative use of the weapon. I'd rather have it changed so that the first beacon shot  launches a homing beacon, while the second shot removes it (and add some non-aimed indicator that you have something tagged or not). That way, you can quickly reposition it however you like and still allow it to be used creatively as well. Please reconsider this? :)

-snip-

What do you think about that? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, CrimsonFAQer said:

No man you are the unreasonable one. This guy has a legitimate concern that many veterans have. Most YouTube warframe players just brown nose. Tactical potatoe has spoken before about the nerf mentality. The problem is the players being screwed out of money. This founder supported the game at inception and bought Plat and his concerns are not being addressed. I have no real problem with nerfs but DE does nothing to refund in some way the effort people put into weapons. This guy spent real money for rivens and now it's gone. Few times they've handle things properly such as the nerf of steel charge when they gave people a legendary core to compensate effort of leveling steel charge. If they went about this nerf like they did for steel charge nerf there would be no problem. Refund the number of forma and lense on nerfed weapon and give a riven choice if you have one for the weapon. 

I don't know maybe you're a free only player and feel like you can't complain but us paying member feel screwed when things like this happen. We in good faith support the game but devs won't listen until they create such a mess that they have to retract things or loose big chunks of payers. It's happened many times before so I don't know why they keep doing it. 

 

i would talk and have a chat about your points ( most made up tbh or lack any logic behind them..) but the fact you call a founder a " maybe you're a free only play" kinda shows you arnt in the best of mind sets to think right now. so maybe come back tomorrow? i also dont watch any of the youtubers becuse they are not worth watching at all... they are all bad n dry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4BC30E56FB1B8BCF95689E59DF4ACAC9404A4DB3

Why do you hurt me so.

I used tonk so much that it became an automatic reflex action. If a mission was hard I would tonk, and if the mission was easy I would still tonk. I stored my tonk in the incubator for safe keeping and tucked it in every night. We did everything together, we killed everyone together. Tonk was love, Tonk was life.

Now you want to hurt my tonk, the capital of all travesties. Was it the people standing next to us that were envious of our love, our ability to massacre the endless horde as fast as they procreated like nature intended, or was it the people on the ground we were reviving, being that they couldn't defend themselves from their own prey, and wished that upon others from spite?

Tonk pierced the enemy's souls and rended them from within with glorious critical sunder, but now you want it to only be skin deep, an infested clone of a once proud piece of grineer technology. I cannot imagine having to put tonk, a piece of my heart, in the same bin as the mutinous kulstar and ogris, only to be used when suicide is the only answer.

But alas you do this, you give in to the hate, and love ends with thunderous applause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/22/2017 at 2:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tonkor

 

The Tonkor's rocket jumping mechanic has long been obsolete since the introduction of bullet jumping. This weapon is a launcher by nature, and we've made adjustments to that end.

  • The Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.
  • The Tonkor Grenade trajectory line now appears on holding the fire button (Default Left Mouse), and grenade fires on release.
  • The Maximum lifespan of grenade has dropped from 5 to 3 seconds - grenades are quicker to explode
  • Genades bounce lower and explode sooner, making them more likely to explode where they are shot.
  • The Critical Chance has been reduced to 25%.



 

Looking over the information for the Tonkor nerf, as someone who occasionally uses the weapon, I honestly am rather pleased to see the changes that will be happening to the Grineer Grenade Launcher.  Though, it is going to be a sad day when it happens, as I will no longer be able to stick a grenade to an enemy using Adhesive blast, and effectively stomp them to death by landing on them and detonating the grenade, without consequence.  Either way, I do feel like this was a necessary change for this weapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

yep, i'm starting to agree, if DE is going to show they are going to listen to whiners and nerf weapons after lots of work (and real money for some people) after they have gotten their plat sales, then yeah, the long term trend here looks all down hill. I don't want to forma anything for a long time now as i'm loosing 10 forma on this balance pass as a net loss and i have nothing left to do BUT forma and try out weapons these days.  Lost a greater lens, and all that time invested too,  in weapons i don't want to use anymore.. I don't think anyone would have left the game if they didn't nerf those weapons but i think those nerfs WILL push some people to leave.

Funny thing is buffing other weapons up to those levels, then buffing enemies would result in essentially the same thing, without almost any hard feelings.

I know I'm never spending another $ on the game until certain things are either undone or offset with good actions (like say listening on vacuum) but over the last year that pile has only gotten more and more negative. I've gone from recommending the game to people a year ago to warning them off it now since i always feel I'm one more "screw you" away from leaving anyway and don't want to get people to join and then leave..

One of the wisest toughs i have read since this threat started... i'm with you! i don't want to keep spending formas neither time or effort to making outstanding build just to get nerf butchered cause some lazy whiners cannot work hard to get those builds and don't like to be more than 10 minutes on each mission.

Slowly DE is killing the greatest thing of this game imho... The greatest achieve of the tennos are to deal with the strongest things that will 1 hit you and kill them before they kill you. Space ninjas? keep the good gear and make better things not butcher the already GREAT ones... Or ppl will start feeling that is playing some CoD game with some fancy space visuals and guess what? they will go back straigth for a plain all the same standard shooter game cause "BALANCE".

Edited by Dailus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Dailus said:

One of the wisest toughs i have read since this threat started... i'm with you! i don't want to keep spending formas neither time or effort to making outstanding build just to get nerf butchered cause some lazy whiners cannot work hard to get those builds and don't like to be more than 10 minutes on each mission.

Slowly DE is killing the greatest thing of this game imho... The greatest achieve of the tennos are to deal with the strongest things that will 1 hit you and kill them before they kill you. Space ninjas? keep the good gear and make better things not butcher the already GREAT ones... Or ppl will start feeling that is playing some CoD game with some fancy space visuals and guess what? go back straigth for a plain all the same standard shooter game cause "BALANCE".

THIS!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Urska said:

if you cant handle a simple change, due to game balance. IE if more then haft people use the same weapon. it needs to be changed. why? becuse why waste time on other weapons if ppl use the same one only... BTW that weapon isnt that great and tbh only ppl who used it are ones who are 100% < some cuss word lol> and need to learn how to aim or play a fps right lol..... like really... also DE dosnt care about some toaster gamer rage quiting lol

 

btw its not even a big part of the game....very small part.. your raging over some like thing they changed the color of armor tbh... their soooo many other much better weapons.. :/ and i love how you bring up the amount of money you put into WF. braging about it lol....just sad....

 

also your rage post 100% shows you have NO idea what game balancing is OR how it works... its quite sad

Quite sad would be your spelling. Braging? Try bragging. Haft? You mean half? Quiting? You mean quitting?   And i wasn't bragging . I was stating a fact. Is a $1000 over 5 years really alot? Maybe to you. Not to me.  I wanna see you use a sniper rifle or ANY of the weapons getting a buff, against level 200+ Enemies in a survival.  Good luck. Name 1 weapon better against HIGH level enemies. And warframe isnt a FPS , its 3rd.  Your post shows you know nothing, you dont even know what genre your're playing. I couldnt care less about armor colors, dont know where youre getting that. But if it's such a small part of the game, why are they getting nerfed? Ruin the fun of many to silence the pathetic cries of the few? The same people begging for these weapons to get nerfed, probably the same ones who bring Nidus, Rhino & hydroid on spy missions, tripping every alarm, will be on here soon begging to nerf sorties & trials because theres gonna be no one left to carry them. If you're gonna come at me, at least do it with a 1st grade spelling level. 

Edited by (PS4)THEFREAK420
Spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how to feel about the nerfs to Tonkor and Simulor, TBH. Like most people that have used the weapons, I've put in several forma and lens. I've enjoyed using them for some time, but then eventually I got bored and started to use other weapons (newer and older) to vary things up. I agree that the compensation of the reset of said weapons is weak and should be revisited, but there is an inherit problem with how Damage is handled across the board. Personally, I think there needs to be a wholesale change to Damage (Damage 3.0?) rather than nerfing/buffing specific weapons. The problem that I see is that players are forced to specific weapons in order to viable "late-game" rather than being able to choose a weapon based on aesthetics, mechanics, and/or type. Just spit-balling here...the weapons damage could scale based on Mastery Rank and allow players to take a weapon of their choosing and apply modifiers earned through ranking up. The current mod system can still remain, but remove pure damage mods and continue to allow mods for mechanics like reload speed, recoil, etc. In other words, put the power of choice within the hands of the players to be able to craft the weapons as they see fit based on the amount of time/effort they put into the game. That way DE can concentrate on more variety and not so much on the constant battle of "balancing". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a player who really loves the Simulor series, I am gladen to see the changes to the Simulor, and quite excited to try out the changes. 

I am definately happy to see the increase in status chance, though I am concerned about the nerf to the range of the explosion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/22/2017 at 2:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Panthera

Like the Miter, the Panthera is a killer idea with lackluster execution. We've made the following changes:

  • Primary Fire has been switched to Automatic, and the fire rate has been increased.
  • The Status Chance of Primary Fire has been increased to 20%
  • Critical Hit Chance of Primary Fire is now 10%
  • The Critical Multiplier is now 2x.
  • Ammo Requirement is reduced to 2.
  • Secondary Fire Status chance is now 35%
  • Critical hit Chance of Secondary is now 25%
  • Mastery Rank is now 7.

=o

<=O

<=D

O!  M!  G!! Thank you!! 

omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg

gHhEQL.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@[DE]Rebecca

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

As we near the staggering number of 300 weapons (including variants), the task of balancing grows increasingly daunting

Maybe, delete some unusable at all weapons, huh? Why you have created such big number of weapons? 90% of it are MR-exp source and would never be something over than just that. Deal with it - you aren't able to change this, not because you are bad, but because the nature of most MMO-players, who always looking for most effective ways to do stuff.

And yes, this is coop-game. PVE-game. Why I would complain about some powerful stuff in my teammate's hands? it's going against the logic, coz stronger the team - then bigger chances to complete the mission.

I'd rather would complain if random brings some pointless scrubs to my party - at wrong frames, with weak specs and weapons!

Your game has huge lack of endgame content. When the Moonrails would be brought back to the game? When the Conclave would be turned into something really useful and fun? Why the events (like the last one) are so rare? It must be monthly based - just to bring some really coop here! The same for the Stalker event. And any another one - not once per year, but once per month!

We all are collecting weapons, finding specs etc, but what for? Just to collection? The game about collection in the 2017, really?

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo

Like Zenistar? That weapon has huge AOE that not only deals big damage but has CC effect on it! Deserve to be nerfed, right?

Or Tigris, that able to oneshot bosses and make another 3 teammates feel as unneeded here?

And why stop on the weapons? Let's look on the frames with the same "one-man-game" effect: Ember, Saryn, Banshee, etc. They would be nerfed to the dust too?

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have buffed 10 underpowered weapons

I really do not care about that buffs. This weapons were unusable before, and they would be like that after. Not because of not enough buffs, but because of wrong weapon design for your current high lvl content. With hordes of strong monsters all you need is AOE-weapon, preferably with CC on it or really hard hitting single target, like Tigris. Everything else is waste of slot.

Now, about nerfs.

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • The Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.
  • The Tonkor Grenade trajectory line now appears on holding the fire button (Default Left Mouse), and grenade fires on release.
  • The Maximum lifespan of grenade has dropped from 5 to 3 seconds - grenades are quicker to explode
  • Genades bounce lower and explode sooner, making them more likely to explode where they are shot.
  • The Critical Chance has been reduced to 25%

Self-damage is the most pain here. It was used mostly only because lack of it. Who would use it now? Sure, it will be used (i.e. someone using Zarr now), but much lesser. Sooner explosion is a strange thing too - it must be the same as on the another GLs, not lesser.

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • The Status Chance increased to 35%
  • The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-8 meters.
  • The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 to 250 when detonated.
  • On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-3 from 3-8
  • On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from from 150-250 to 20-50
  • The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 3.

The biggest nerfbat here. Now this weapons are completely pointless. It will the same "useful" as Bronco now. Who would shoot 3 times then explode, shoot 3 times again and explode, rince repeat? Noone. Only Mirage would able to use it somehow, coz she firing 3 projectiles in 1 click and able to alt-explode it right now - and it still wouldn't be any close to the current mechanic of the Simulors. Any another frame would avoid that weapon for all cost now.

Why not just decrease it's damage a bit or allow only 1 stacked orb exist in the world? Why you were need to nerf it to the dust?

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • This weapon is receiving a bit more of a mechanic change rather than a purely numerical change.
  • The Slide attack will create a vortex that staggers and draws enemies toward you.
  • The following Slide attack (after a vortex) will radial blast and ragdoll enemies away from you.
  • This 'back and forth' will be on a cooldown.

Adding some back and forth mechanic to the melee weapon is a generally bad idea. Because, I'm pretty sure, the position of the enemies would be absolutely unpredictable: not for Telos Boltes user, nor for his teammates (especially for them!).

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

If you have invested into a nerfed weapon, when the Update releases there will be an Inbox message generated on Login to give you a single 3 day Affinity Booster and a Forma per owned weapon to reconfigure your weapons as you see fit!

Only 1 forma per weapon? Wow... How about catalysts spent on it? How about bigger Lens spent on it? How about more than 1 formas spent on that weapons? Just "thank you for your donations, now go away"?

On 22.03.2017 at 9:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Regarding any Rivens you may have or are looking to pick up for any of the listed weapons: you can expect small changes to stats. Stay tuned for more information in the Update notes!

This is huge punch in the face to the anyone, who bought 1k+ platinum from you and then bought riven mods for that weapons (more popular weapon - bigger price of riven mods for it). You are literally said to all of them: "Now go and F yourself hard"


I'm really hope, that you would refuse to make that nerfs alive and will focus on the real problems: adding true endgame content and remaking enemies scaling in the endurance runs. Maybe, you would be able to remake this in such way, that AOE-weapons would becomes useless and currently bad weapons would start shining. You know - not because of strange nerfs, but because of changing whole mechanics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, zangdrax said:

I'm not sure how to feel about the nerfs to Tonkor and Simulor, TBH. Like most people that have used the weapons, I've put in several forma and lens. I've enjoyed using them for some time, but then eventually I got bored and started to use other weapons (newer and older) to vary things up. I agree that the compensation of the reset of said weapons is weak and should be revisited, but there is an inherit problem with how Damage is handled across the board. Personally, I think there needs to be a wholesale change to Damage (Damage 3.0?) rather than nerfing/buffing specific weapons. The problem that I see is that players are forced to specific weapons in order to viable "late-game" rather than being able to choose a weapon based on aesthetics, mechanics, and/or type. Just spit-balling here...the weapons damage could scale based on Mastery Rank and allow players to take a weapon of their choosing and apply modifiers earned through ranking up. The current mod system can still remain, but remove pure damage mods and continue to allow mods for mechanics like reload speed, recoil, etc. In other words, put the power of choice within the hands of the players to be able to craft the weapons as they see fit based on the amount of time/effort they put into the game. That way DE can concentrate on more variety and not so much on the constant battle of "balancing". 

I kinda agree. I love fist weapons, for example, but the lack of range force you to stay away from them (btw, we need more fist weapons).

Then I see the Kela Mods for Sobek or Jat Kittag, and I wish single target melee weapons got something like that.

It's just an example, but what i mean is that mechanics can fix things as well as damage numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...