Jump to content
Temporary sub-forum for Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii ×

Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.


Recommended Posts

I really only have one problem with these changes: the fact that they added self-damage. I'm not mad that they nerfed the Tonkor. I'm mad at how they nerfed it.

Whether you loved or hated the Tonkor, it showed how fun explosive weapons can be without extremely high self-damage attached to them. This move basically means that DE has no intention of removing (or at least reducing or capping) self-damage any time soon. This is bad, because self-damage is just as outdated a mechanic as the Tonkor rocket jump was. The only point it serves is to reduce fun. It's also very counter-intuitive: In a game without friendly fire (excluding radiation procs), why can I kill myself with these certain weapons, but not my team? Why does the Simulor not do self-damage? Why not the Zarr bomblets? No wait, the Zarr bomblets actually DID self-damage, but it was removed. You can easily guess why: it was unfun and unnecessary. Just like all self-damage in this game. Now if we had shield gating (and maybe even health gating as well), this would probably be much less of a problem. Annoying, still, but perhaps manageable. But we don't have that (yet?). Even though it was promised, it's taking an extremely long time to arrive. And even if we had it, it would not fix the core problem with self-damage, just make it more bearable.

Instead of adding self-damage to the Tonkor, it should have been nerfed in it's raw stats more, and all the other self-damage weapons should have been on the list of buffs to cap their self-damage at a flat 100 damage, or maybe 5% of the total weapon damage. Or have it removed entirely.

But not this. Not adding more. This is a step back, not forward. In the small chance someone from DE is actually reading this: please reconsider or tell the people with the power to change this to reconsider.

Edited by RevanZim
some fixes/clarifications
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Justinism said:

I honestly dont think the mechanics of the Telos boltace should be changed that drastically, either nerfed outright or slightly tweaked maybe, but not changed to the suggested mechanic. The new mechanic doesnt fit in the slightest for the weapon aesthetic or supposed function and seems more appropriate for the heliocor, i.e. spin attack or slam attack causes a vacuum of X meters, in line with the simulor

perhaps a more appropriate mechanic would be to apply charges to the spin attack proc that fill up after some time, like growing quills to be shot out. these procs cause enemies that do not die to get pinned to a wall/on the spot for 5 seconds, That way, the weapon is not totally consigned to the bin, and is actually encouraging strategic play.

I like this guill idea. Fits this weapons family idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Way I see it, people are gettin worked up by nerfs primarily cause of how each of us value time differently. Seeing their investment get chucked outta the window can be pretty aggravating if you step in their shoes.

<< got quite  a fair bit of time per day to invest in the game so nerfs are just one of those things.... Ain't diggin it per se, especially in a game where you're supposed to feel empowered as space ninjas and all that, but some changes are somewhat necessary for consistency sake (Tonkor finally).

Homegirl on the other hand is pretty much married to her job but she loves this game, her progress is way slower than me or anyone else in our circle cause she can't invest as much time and quite frankly some of the cheese weapons in the game let her keep up with the rest of us till she get to gear up properly for our shenanigans.

If learning people's behavior in general have taught me anything, in a primarily coop focused scenario (mmo in this sense), it's best to leave things as is or buff underpowered things to a certain degree; be it frames/ classes, gears/ weapons, and enemies (higher level and more eximus variety/ nullifiers in more planets instead of the 40+ cap outside of survival) to accommodate the power gap.

Games are means of escapism, to many people they just want to have fun/ feel empowered out from real world shenanigans. The last thing they want is to feel "oppressed" by forces outside their control again ala rl stuff. Overly dramatic maybe but it is what it is.

If some people wanted challenge they can limit their kit to their liking. Never really understood "Why should I limit myself to have my own fun" argument from some "challenge seeker" either since that's such a selfish way of thinking in an online game where everyone can have their fun their way, and WF ain't a difficult game to begin with.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

-snop-

More like they don't cry because Melee hasn't been touched. All so-called skilled people (ie. the people carry your a$$ in 1+ hour long endless) use melee.

DE just needs to nerf stealth and you will see the entire forum break down in flame lol.

Sure they touch Telos Boltace, but it's far from the strongest melee weapon.

Edited by [DE]Taylor
removed quoted comment (and link to author) for Guidelines violation
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dracario said:

Flight speed, you can keep adding damage to the vortex and detonate it whenever you feel like it

with multishot you dont necessarily HAVE to wait, spawn 3 separate vortexes and detonate them all at once.

Isn't max votexes still max votexes? it's been reduced, so you can't keep adding damage

And multishot on the simulor will stack 2 per shot, with a max of 3 vortexes so you are wastting them, making split chamber still dubious on the simulor

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, HolyDemon00 said:

More like they don't cry because Melee hasn't been touched. All so-called skilled people (ie. the people carry your a$$ in 1+ hour long endless) use melee.

DE just needs to nerf stealth and you will see the entire forum break down in flame lol.

Sure they touch Telos Boltace, but it's far from the strongest melee weapon.

No one ever carried me in anything. I know all about melee + stealth. It's a matter of time, the gloves are off now, everything popular will be getting nerfed at some point. Doesnt matter to me. That game is in my past.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MJ12 said:

I'm going to defend the Simulor nerfs because the Simulor encouraged pudding farming behavior. I'm using the Nethack term pudding farming for a mechanically rewarding (because it is an efficient way to progress in the game) but tedious and unfun way of progressing the game. And the thing is, despite the joke that there is already an inbuilt punishment for playing Mirage Simulor combos in Warframe called 'playing Mirage/Simulor combos,' it is in fact a good idea to remove pudding farming so that people don't have to choose between a fun but mechanically suboptimal route and an unfun but mechanically optimal route.

 

So now they are left with ONLY the UNFUN, sub obtimal route... or do you tihnk that you are the determiner of "fun"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Really dislike nerfs in general. What's the point of nerfing weapons? You can never have an equal playing field as there will always be a weapon superior to another. Instead of trying to draw attention away from a weapon, why not draw attention TO a weapon? Great, you nerfed my 7 Forma Tonkor, I'll just use my 6 Forma Zarr. Nerf Zarr? I still got my 6 Forma Secura Penta. Instead of trying to constantly nerf a weapon, why not buff a weapon and make me excited to play it instead? You buffed the Ogris, so now I'm excited to use it again. I would've used the Ogris again even if you didn't nerf the Tonkor, so what's the point in nerfing it? If the Ogris sucks still, I'm now twice bitter about these changes because now not only does Ogris still suck, but Tonkor was nerfed as well. Nerfing stuff just makes the player feel like time was wasted. Buffing stuff makes the player excited to try something new. Nerfing stuff doesn't make the player want to try new things, it makes the player fear putting time, effort and platinum into a something. Nerfing stuff doesn't add a fun factor to other weapons, it just removes the fun factor from that weapon.

 

As for the Simulors and the Telos Boltace, I rarely used them before, so I can't say much about their changes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NSAlovesMe said:

Finally, as a person that has over 30k kills with the telos boltace alone, I am happy to see it die along side with the Tonkor. It is time for a meta shift. Get people using different weapons, instead of the generic load-out. Then people complain that the game is getting boring and it's always the same, but they never change weapons. Logic is non-existent. And when a change does come, they turn this forum into a bigger salt mine than League of Legends. I welcome the change with open arms. But fix your garbage armor scaling. That's all I ask. 

What a straw man. No, there are many people who DON'T complain about using the same weapons, there are many people who are happy having gone through all the weapons, picked their favorite and use it all the time. there is NOTHING GOOD AT ALL about using differnet weapons. You and DE don't seem to get that. That is your opinion, but what is good for you is not good for everyone. There is no reason to "Get people using different weapons". That's narccisstict game development (I made all these cool weapons, if people like these few i must nerf them so they "get" to "enjoy" using all these other weapons they already tried and liked less!)

Anyone who tried all the weapons and liked the tonkor, or simulor must now use a weapon they liked less than the one they were using, it's a net reduction in fun for those people.

 

Edited by Shockwave-
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sad thing is these buffs just seem decent.

I'm guessing their using minor buffs and the new frame to trying to somewhat nullify the outrage from the massive nerfs to the tonkor and simulor, so they don't loose to many players.

Also a forma for each nerfed weapon what a freaking joke. I got 6 forma on tonkor, 5 on simulot plus catalysts and weapon slots. How about some FULL refunds.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, (PS4)THEFREAK420 said:

You're the one who attacked me, saying i was Raging? Where? Bragging? Where? And what about your FPS comment? 1st person shooter? Really? Its a THIRD person shooter. Go back to school.

 
 
 

none of that was a personal attack. also for someone who ragequit. why u still talking? lol GG on lieing then XD. you are quitting WF like most WoW fanboys. they cry, "quit" but ever leave and just cry on forums for hours.... so leave or stay

like most wowfanboys. best to do is laugh at them for their rage,mute them then move on. you wont quit WF over some poor reason

Edited by Urska
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, SilverWF said:

Why they would never made some events more frequent to allow more ppl to get some powerful and rare stuff, like Argon sight or Maiming strike? The answer is simple: platinum.

Some nolifers were able to get this, but most players are not. So where they can get that mods (for the 300+pl price)? Only buy it from that nolifers.

But where to get platinum? Right - buy it from DE for real money.

The same reason for some frames, like Ember (800+pl price for THAT useless frame, omg) or Frost, etc.

That's why they are nerfing good weapons - to not allow players farm stuff for sale easier and force them to buy it for crazy platinum prices or just in the shop. And there is no deal with the noob-whiners tears - only busyness.

To prevent your cool stories about ingame trading, I would say: there is NO source of the platinum in the game, someone need to buy it 1st for the real money.

Take off your tinfoil hat, m80.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, youre barely literate. Lieing? Its LYING. You lost any credibility the minute you said I must not be any good at FPS then. When warframe is a 3rd person game. You dont know what youre talking about, or how to spell it. And yeah im still on here, its entertaining, for now. You wont catch me in the game though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hawk197 said:

Really dislike nerfs in general. What's the point of nerfing weapons? You can never have an equal playing field as there will always be a weapon superior to another. Instead of trying to draw attention away from a weapon, why not draw attention TO a weapon? Great, you nerfed my 7 Forma Tonkor, I'll just use my 6 Forma Zarr. Nerf Zarr? I still got my 6 Forma Secura Penta. Instead of trying to constantly nerf a weapon, why not buff a weapon and make me excited to play it instead? You buffed the Ogris, so now I'm excited to use it again. I would've used the Ogris again even if you didn't nerf the Tonkor, so what's the point in nerfing it? If the Ogris sucks still, I'm now twice bitter about these changes because now not only does Ogris still suck, but Tonkor was nerfed as well. Nerfing stuff just makes the player feel like time was wasted. Buffing stuff makes the player excited to try something new. Nerfing stuff doesn't make the player want to try new things, it makes the player fear putting time, effort and platinum into a something. Nerfing stuff doesn't add a fun factor to other weapons, it just removes the fun factor from that weapon.

 

As for the Simulors and the Telos Boltace, I rarely used them before, so I can't say much about their changes.

It's not about making it so that there's no best weapon. It's about making it so that there aren't - word for word from the main post, mind you, - a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo. They're moderating weapons that kill everything so quickly and in such a wide area that players can literally make it so that their teammates have nothing to do. Warframe can get dull enough when you have things to do, so imagine trying to stay entertained walking around while someone else obliterates everything in sight.

Hoorayyyyyyyyyyy /s

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

What a straw man. No, there are many people who DON'T complain about using the same weapons, there are many people who are happy having gone through all the weapons, picked their favorite and use it all the time. there is NOTHING GOOD AT ALL about using differnet weapons. You and DE don't seem to get that. That is your opinion, but what is good for you is not good for everyone. There is no reason to "Get people using different weapons". That's narccisstict game development (I made all these cool weapons, if people like these few i must nerf them so they "get" to "enjoy" using all these other weapons they already tried and liked less!)

Anyone who tried all the weapons and liked the tonkor, or simulor must now use a weapon they liked less than the one they were using, it's a net reduction in fun for those people.

I like how you're trying to paint this as "you guys are the selfish ones" when the primary purpose of the changes was explicitly outlined to be making it so that everybody can still have fun playing together. Your entire perspective is "my weapon does less damage and that's terrible." It's not like they're making the weapons useless; they'll still be powerful, and it's entirely possible that these initial changes will fall short of the desired effect...

But whether the top weapon is nerfed or the next weapon just power-creeps ahead, we'll always have people who don't like change complaining about how their shiniest toy is now "garbage." Seriously? If they nerf the weapons into uselessness they should be buffed, but those changes don't look like they'll make the weapons useless. You'll still do tons of damage. Probably more damage than you actually need. But hopefully players (not necessarily you, specifically) will find it harder to make their teammates sit around twiddling their thumbs while going on a self-indulgent power-trip.

I don't see how you can legitimately call this a net reduction in fun, or seriously suggest that enforcing some moderation is selfish/narcissistic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (PS4)THEFREAK420 said:

Man, youre barely literate. Lieing? Its LYING. You lost any credibility the minute you said I must not be any good at FPS then. When warframe is a 3rd person game. You dont know what youre talking about, or how to spell it. And yeah im still on here, its entertaining, for now. You wont catch me in the game though.

When forum arguments turn to grammar police..... now you're just trolling/ flaming....

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (PS4)THEFREAK420 said:

Man, youre barely literate. Lieing? Its LYING. You lost any credibility the minute you said I must not be any good at FPS then. When warframe is a 3rd person game. You dont know what youre talking about, or how to spell it. And yeah im still on here, its entertaining, for now. You wont catch me in the game though.

Did you consider that the author of that post does not speak english as their primary language? Even if they do, judging someones logical argument by their spelling instead of by the argument itself is not actually helping the conversation.

That said your name included 420 so I assume you are a stoner/memer/unable to comprehend concepts such as logic and debate and will use smaller words for you next time.

TL;DR Stop being a &#036;&amp;*^ to people cuz things aren't going your way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/3/2017 at 1:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tonkor

The Tonkor's rocket jumping mechanic has long been obsolete since the introduction of bullet jumping. This weapon is a launcher by nature, and we've made adjustments to that end.

  • The Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.
  • The Tonkor Grenade trajectory line now appears on holding the fire button (Default Left Mouse), and grenade fires on release.
  • The Maximum lifespan of grenade has dropped from 5 to 3 seconds - grenades are quicker to explode
  • Genades bounce lower and explode sooner, making them more likely to explode where they are shot.
  • The Critical Chance has been reduced to 25%.

Simulor:

The Simulor's entry into Arsenals marked one of the more unique moments in Weapon history. It's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

  • The Status Chance has been increased to 30%.
  • A Critical Chance of 2% has been added. This was an erroneous addition that had no effect since the unique nature of this weapon made it unclear which Stat field was being assigned to the orb output after the changes. The existing Critical Stats have not changed, and this added stat can be disregarded.
  • The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-6 meters.
  • The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 to 200 when detonated.
  • On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-3 from 3-8
  • On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from from 150-250 to 20-40
  • The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 3.

Synoid Simulor:

Considering the Simulor was the only Primary Cephalon weapon, it was easy to see a Synoid version entering Arsenals. Like its vanilla counterpart, it's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

  • The Status Chance increased to 35%
  • A Critical Chance of 5% has been added.See Above.
  • The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-8 meters.
  • The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 to 250 when detonated.
  • On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-3 from 3-8
  • On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from from 150-250 to 20-50
  • The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 3.

 

 

Simulor synoid and Tonkorwill be nerfed?  My prays are finally heard!!!!

yaranaika_zpsju3siszf.jpg

 

But my question is, why Tonkor is far away stronger than Ogris? i mean Ogris is a Rocket launcher.....

And why the simulor doesn't deal to the user? technically is a launcher at my sight, that vortex should inflict damage, atleast that would help with mirulors speedrunners wyping all the enemies meanwhile the other 3 on the squad play hide and seek with Stalker

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...