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Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.


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19 minutes ago, Quanlain said:

But i'm talking about some extreme cases, about real douches, who are following you around, whriting "git gud" and etc

That's a type of problem that isn't related much to frames/weapons. Its problem of people behaving bad. Same people just shoot Nyx bubble for no reason. Same people trolled with Loki/Valkyr/Vauban/Limbo. 

21 minutes ago, Quanlain said:

There are pleny of AOE weapons, and i'm currently using some of them, and if people can't find an alternative to tonkor or simulor form 300+ weapons, that mean that he's just lazy. 

I almost stopped using Toncor/Simulor months ago(even before first stats nerf). Those two aren't a big loss for me but Telos Boltace is what i use for utility reasons - wipes out weak mobs, gives status procs for growing power, pops spores at range easily, starts Naramon easily without need to punch mob right in the face and opens all boxes around. 

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I did a few test runs yesterday with Penta+Tether Grenades and dusted off my Atterax and Orthos Prime, and tbh, I see virtually no difference in kill count to my Tonkor or Telos Boltace builds. And the thing is, I couldn't care less about kill counts, but a lot of complainers seem to. So what's gonna happen is that people will return to those weapons, and what then? Are you all going to complain about and ask for nerfs to those weapons next? Just curious.

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49 minutes ago, plastictrash said:

So what's gonna happen is that people will return to those weapons, and what then? Are you all going to complain about and ask for nerfs to those weapons next? Just curious.

I think they are. That's one of the serious problem I concern.

If devs have realized the "co-op problem" by themselves, this nerf is too late. Synoid Simulor has already "dominated" battlefield over year.
So "They heard whine or prayer or something and finally nerfed it." is more natural hypothesis.
I hope this hypothesis will be strongly rejected by devs.

Edited by Ta10S
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On 3/22/2017 at 1:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Miter

The Miter is one of the oldest examples of killer concept with lackluster results. The next Update will bring the following:

  • Increased chance of dismemberment on kills.
  • Increased speed of Projectiles.
  • Charge time has been halved.
  • Critical Chance of 5% for a quick shot.
  • Critical Chance of 10% for a charged shot.
  • Mastery Rank increased to 6.

 

Why, of all things, was it thought that 10% crit chance would make Miter more useful?

You'd need a Riven with +100% crit chance minimum to get some use out of it. And that's asking quite a lot for a multi-layered RNG mod.

You also forgot to post the crit multiplier, which probably isn't that great anyway.

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1 hour ago, plastictrash said:

So what's gonna happen is that people will return to those weapons, and what then? Are you all going to complain about and ask for nerfs to those weapons next? Just curious.

Yes, exactly this will happen, with some additions. You can bet on selfdmg on Tether Grenades, Atterax, Orthos Prime, Galatine Prime, War, Tigris variants, Hek variants, Vaykor Marelok and ofc (Ak)Lex Prime.

Also Ember, Banshee, Equinox, Loki, Saryn

Edited by GnarlsDarkley
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34 minutes ago, plastictrash said:

I did a few test runs yesterday with Penta+Tether Grenades and dusted off my Atterax and Orthos Prime, and tbh, I see virtually no difference in kill count to my Tonkor or Telos Boltace builds. And the thing is, I couldn't care less about kill counts, but a lot of complainers seem to. So what's gonna happen is that people will return to those weapons, and what then? Are you all going to complain about and ask for nerfs to those weapons next? Just curious.

They gonna cry again to nerf stuff. People are already gathering asking for focus and banshe nerfs.

These guys dont care about the weapon, all of them follow the "cod and other generic fps" logic where getting the most kills is the most important thing.

They gonna bring in any weapon into a pub run, see a guy with maxes stat gear killing stuff faster.

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1 hour ago, Death_Master_ said:

You don't but I do like it ;)

But if you dislike actually playing the game so much, why do you persist? There are tons of free walking simulators on the Internet, showcasing all sorts of environments.

Edited by (XB1)CannyJack
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20 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

Well said.
Banshee Sound Quake should be nerfed as well, just because it is "spammy" and painful to the eye instead of lowering the FX, right?

Things will get OP over time, as a form of progression. Player rank up, level up their gears, put potato and formas on the gears, spend Endo to rank up mods, spend time and effort getting Ducats to get Primed mods. Most of those weapons/frames got to OP level when players invested effort and time to make it so, and nerfing them just because it seems unfair to others and devaluing/dishonouring those investment?

Take my experience in MapleStory long time ago as an example.
I like to play with my Night Lord character(level 150-160+) in one of my favorite map which have level 50+ enemies that deal only touch damage.
I build my character for high evasion and one hit kill attack, and usually doze off once in a while but wake up to find my character still alive.
So once in a while some players walk pass and see me slaughtering those enemies, and said that my character is OP and should be getting nerfed?

Personally, my Telos Boltace is not OP in my opinion, as I build it for breaking containers and speed boost with Dispatch Overdrive.
To be honest, kill stealing (KSing) in MMO is pretty common. At least, Warframe got Solo and Friends Only options, so I can take my time in Exterminate and play missions using my own playstyle without affecting others.
But certain nerfs and/or mechanic changes due to very specific build and playstyle would also affect those who are playing Solo, not affecting others or not even modding for that specific build to also be affected.

 

 

I meant that the Sound Quake Pulses FX was removed and replaced with a solid wave thats only for the bansheeeee

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On 23/3/2017 at 0:23 AM, StinkyPygmy said:

No, you misunderstand. I was making fun of the forums for being so salty. Especially over inane things. The self damage is literally a non-issue if you stop point blanking enemies in the face. Its really not that hard. Been doing it pre-tonkor days with literally every other explosive weapon and I'll continue to do so with the Tonkor. The reason people hate this (as its pretty much the only notable tonkor change, everything else is negligible) is because they got comfortable in being able to shoot where ever and however they please with a tonkor. Its really not going to be that hard to adjust.

Sorry, but anyone unhappy with this because of the self damage has 0 sympathy from me. Its really not that hard to not blow yourself up.

Well not really salty about tonkor in fact my main weapon now is zarr so I've had my share of self damage.

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1 minute ago, iamghost77 said:

Well not really salty about tonkor in fact my main weapon now is zarr so I've had my share of self damage.

That would mean you are clearly not the type of forum goer my post was directed at then.

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On 23/03/2017 at 6:23 AM, StinkyPygmy said:

No, you misunderstand. I was making fun of the forums for being so salty. Especially over inane things. The self damage is literally a non-issue if you stop point blanking enemies in the face. Its really not that hard. Been doing it pre-tonkor days with literally every other explosive weapon and I'll continue to do so with the Tonkor. The reason people hate this (as its pretty much the only notable tonkor change, everything else is negligible) is because they got comfortable in being able to shoot where ever and however they please with a tonkor. Its really not going to be that hard to adjust.

Sorry, but anyone unhappy with this because of the self damage has 0 sympathy from me. Its really not that hard to not blow yourself up.

Depends on your play style, I guess.

I'd like to see you do something like this with self damage explosives, because this is how I used my Tonkor too

 

Unless you're one of those guys who just stand on the container on Akkad and just fire at the pod, until you get one-shot by Moas after Wave 30.

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5 minutes ago, plastictrash said:

Depends on your play style, I guess.

I'd like to see you do something like this with self damage explosives, because this is how I used my Tonkor too

 

Unless you're one of those guys who just stand on the container on Akkad and just fire at the pod, until you get one-shot by Moas after Wave 30.

Its funny you say that because I actually detest the idea of standing on a box for hours at end blowing things up.

Yeah I also use my tonkor in similar ways. I'm not sure I really understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying treating a tonkor similar to any other launcher in WF isn't possible? Because it very much is. All I can see is you jumping around shooting grenades at targets far enough away that you remain outside of the blast radius, which is exactly what you do with any launcher, and will soon have to do with the tonkor...

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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4 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Its funny you say that because I actually detest the idea of standing on a box for hours at end blowing things up.

Yeah I also use my tonkor in similar ways. I'm not sure I really understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying treating a tonkor similar to any other launcher in WF isn't possible? Because it very much is.

What I'm saying is that if I wouldn't have had Tether Grenades on the Penta, but enough damage and range to one-shot myself within 20m of the explosion, I would spend more time waiting for revives than actually playing the game.

I'm not saying that self damage is a bad thing per se, but one-shot self damage heavily discourages the use of those kind of weapons.

Edit: Especially when at any time, a mob or squad mate can just walk infront of you and ruin your planned shot.

Edited by plastictrash
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On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 1:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Glaxion

The Ice Beam weapon: the Glaxion. Probably one of the most exciting weapons to imagine in combat, yet it has received a cold reception.

  • Cold Damage has increased to 333 from 250.
  • The rate at which ammo is consumed has been decreased.
  • Increased the Accuracy of the Glaxion.
  • Reduced the range from 30 meters to 24 meters.

This is very nice.  I already kinda liked the Glaxion before.  This just makes it better. 

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 1:07 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tonkor

The Tonkor's rocket jumping mechanic has long been obsolete since the introduction of bullet jumping. This weapon is a launcher by nature, and we've made adjustments to that end.

  • The Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.
  • The Tonkor Grenade trajectory line now appears on holding the fire button (Default Left Mouse), and grenade fires on release.
  • The Maximum lifespan of grenade has dropped from 5 to 3 seconds - grenades are quicker to explode
  • Genades bounce lower and explode sooner, making them more likely to explode where they are shot.
  • The Critical Chance has been reduced to 25%.

Everything about this change for the Tonkor actually makes me somewhat consider using it.  More control of where and how the grenades go is a huge plus IMO.  With the addition of self damage, the Tonkor will not be what I consider a "Brain dead" weapon any more.  Truthfully I never really had a problem with others using the Tonkor other than I always thought that it should have had self damage like all the other launchers.  I myself just didn't care for the weapon. Which is a personal decision for me, so please don't try to knock me for it.  :D

 

On a side note, Why are so many salty tears concerning the Tonkor change anyway?  It's not like the thing has really been nerfed.  Ok it has had crit chance reduced slightly.  25% is still dang good.  Self Damage just means you can't face tank enemies with it without taking damage.  Same as all the other launcher weapons.  The other changes seem to be improvements.  It's not a change like the Nyx "fix".  The Tonkor will still be a viable weapon.  It will now just take a little "common sense" to use just like all the other launchers. 

Note on Common sense:  I do realize that common sense is not so common any more, and so rare that it could be considered a super power.  With that said, I want for all my fellow Tenno to strive to be super heroes by using this one real world super power.  :D

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1 minute ago, plastictrash said:

What I'm saying is that if I wouldn't have had Tether Grenades on the Penta, but enough damage and range to one-shot myself within 20m of the explosion, I would spend more time waiting for revives than actually playing the game.

I'm not saying that self damage is a bad thing per se, but one-shot self damage heavily discourages the use of those kind of weapons.

I guess? I've had almost no issues blowing myself up with the penta before tether grenades even existed. I'm still not seeing how tether grenades helped you when a majority of your shots made were well out of the way of yourself. Its not much different with the tonkor. The only reason you would spend more time being revived is if you make unwise decisions and shot/detonate grenades too close to yourself, which is pretty easy to avoid in most cases. For the exceptions, whip out your melee or secondary and clear the way, then go back to blowing everything up with your boom boom of choice. Literally nothing about that has changed.

I wouldn't be opposed to putting some degree of a cap on self damage, as I agree that being able to one shot yourself at full heal might be too much. but over all, its really a non-issue. Just don't stand near your shots. Its not that hard. Plenty of people have been managing just fine since self damage was first a thing. Nothings really changed.

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17 hours ago, fibrizz0 said:

I have a level 30 Atterax because I find the whips diferent and fun, so i use it vs Infested. But I saw a loot of people with it, way more people than with a Tonkor btw.

So, like I said, I'm afraid to catalyst/forma until the balance pass is done.

But for sure I'll follow your recomendation. Also I appreciate very much your kindness offering me the mods, but if they are available in game, I'd try to get them myself.

Thanks!

weeping wounds is the only mod that isnt farmable or has a viable substitute

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18 hours ago, SilverWF said:

really, why?

they trivialise the  content , and yes i know alot of other stuff does and id like to see that gone aswell, but i really loathe this two in particular for both the god aweful sound they make and pure volume of eye cancer they put out. and they are just spammed with no thought or need to think/aim. its like not only are you breaking the game you look and sound terrible doing it and its in a totally classless way

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4 hours ago, Zeratul81 said:

I seriously don't get this attitude that just because someone is using a Tonkor (or any other weapong for that matter) it somehow takes away from someone elses gameplay. I mean I can understand the concern that you might feel that you are not contributing as much but it still has NEVER entered into my mind that I would want those weapons changed just because of that. I have around 1010h gameplay (according to Steam) with Warframe and I have been in countless groups where there has been a player thats setup is simply so powerfull for that particular mission that the rest of the team barely register in the stats. Somehow I fail to see this as a problem. I have seen groups with 3 Tonkor and 1 Synoid Simulor and I could not care less. Most of the time It has just meant that we got the firepower to make through this mission (typically Excavation) more easily.

 

If I were to take the Excavations as an example I am more annoyed of the people that join a public group and go to the extraction zone after the first excavator just because they are there for the easy money. It annoys me that some peoples contribution to the excavation is to stand next to the excavator idle when they notice there a good defence there and we have no real (to my understanding) mechanism to remove these players from the game while remaining 3 of group are pulling all the weight. It also annoys me that a lot of people come there with unleveled frames and weapons and basically make it harder for others (even though this does not bother me nearly as much as people just idling, if you put the effort even with lvling your gear its fine by me)

 

But somehow the people using the Tonkor are the problem?

 

I played a long time before I even considered Tonkor. Its my go to weapon farming relics in Hieracon Excavation mission.

Its a great weapon (for me) to

  • Take out groups of enemies
  • Its a great weapon to get the excavator area clear as you can just shoot at the excavator and blow up the enemies next to it
  • Its Explosion/Blast status also knocks down enemies that dont get instantly killed by the shot

 

For me personally I see huge problems in using this weapon where I currently use it the most (Excavation / Hieracon). Lately I have been just using my Frost on these runs to make sure that there is at least one Warframe in the group that provides some kind of protections for the Excavator. Considering the self damage change to Tonkor and using the Globe I am not sure how am I supposed to kill any mob that gets inside the globe (which they will surely do). Basically I assume that htis will mean that I wont be able to use the Tonkor inside that Globe anymore DEPENDING on how far I actually have to be from the target when I shoot it?

 

I fear that the currrent change will do exactly the same to Tonkor that I expirience with Angstrum (if I remembner the secondary weapon name correlty). Even without great mod setup the weapon will simply one shot me most of the time because of the louse accurasy and hitting random objects/npcs too close. I loved the idea of a weapon like that but the self damage on it simply took all of my interest of using it and trying to micromanage my movement and aim with a weapon. I fear that this will eventually or very fast result into the fact that I will just stop using the weapon.

 

Then again I guess I could just keep uising the Tonkor and see if the people that did not like people using Tonkor before now like ressing this Tonkor user all the time when he/she either shoots the weapon in a totally wrong place or someone accidentaly moves into the line of fire.

 

I really hope that DE takes into consideration the already voiced great ideas to Tonkor if the requirement is that self damage is there to stay. And that is to make the self damage something that is still risky (set dmg amount) but does not automatically mean death.

 

With this current planned changes I just can not see it as a good change unless the objective is to stop people from using it.

Nah man, you're ruining others' fun! 
/s

Seriously, this "nerf everything because -it's not fair-" mentality is the most absurd thing ever. I've been on plenty of missions with SynMirages and I simply helped killing what that Mirage didn't kill. There have been times where I ended up killing more than a SynMirage. So every single one saying "But I can't kill, I don't like others ruining -my- fun!" is lying, go and try, don't stay quiet on the same room as a SynMirage, it's not as if enemies came from only one spot...

The only truth here is that people's ego is so high that they want these weapons nerfed because they want to be the ones ending each mission with the highest stats. I couldn't care less if someone brings one of these combinations, I even take it as a challenge to try and keep up with them. Ultimately what I care is that we complete the mission and these people are helping with that.
The annoying ones are those who leech or stay idle NOT contributing to the mission, but why doesn't DE nerf that by letting us kick people? No, better nerf Mag, right?

Even worse is people being happy about this... look, people spend time and money on these things, you need prime mods and lots of endo/credits to get the optimal builds, go ahead and start from the very beginnin without receiving any help, let's see how fast you can get those builds. People asking for nerfs forget that there should be a thing called progression, there will always be better weapons, it doesn't matter if they nerf one or two, the next few will replace them so chasing this so called "balance" on a -PVE- game is nonsense.

Warframe is great because we are space ninja killing machines, stop nerfing everything, I don't want Warframe to become a boring tps, we're supposed to be these godly beings that kill thousands and thousands of enemies... THAT'S the fun of the game...

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