Inbound Weapon Balancing Pass

[ParadAUX]

Hi all,

Just read the weapon re-balancing pass and I'd like to give my two cents on the matter.

To begin with in general I think most of the MR requirement changes are pretty stupid and pointless, especially the ones on the Miter and the Panthera, at those MR levels you already have other weapons that currently and probably will do a better job than them I think that for those two weapons in specific it should simply be kept as is. The Buzlock's MR is really unnecessary, the gun is bad, the weapon buffs don't seem like they will make miracles for it and that means that it will become mediocre, so you should have just left it at what it was. From the sounds of it the Ogris rework could potentially be good if done right, so go ahead and increase the MR, but I don't think an increase that large is in order, perhaps go halfway and leave it at 7.

Now let me start off by saying that overall the buffs were generally good, and some of the nerfs were necessary. But only some. If I don't comment on the rework it's because I think that they're either going to be okay or good and should be fine to implement as it says on the patch notes.

- Hind Rework -

You've basically said nothing about it, and it sounds like it will end up as another Stradavar type weapon, that gun was terrible even after it's 'buff'. Some stats would have been nice and please don't make a Stradavar MK2.

 

- Tonkor Rework -

Spoiler

It may suprise most but I think that in general the Tonkor nerfs are okay, the self damage isn't a problem and should have been there from the beginning. The grenades having a shorter fuse is good, definitely looking forward to that, however I don't know how I feel about the combo of the full self damage and shorter fuse kinda going to be mildly annoying, especially since the grenades will still bounce around. It may end up being a bit too much, so be a little careful with that. The firing mode, don't change it, please for the love of god don't change it, it's already annoying enough to have to reload every two seconds like with a Tigris it's already annoying don't make the firing mechanism worse. Leave it as is. Lastly don't change the crit chance, I mean that's unnecessary it's not even an over powered gun, it falls off against armored units, so the damage gets dropped super quick. It's got no status to properly back it up so I don't see a real reason to nerf the crit chance. It's pointless and will make a lot of people walk away from the gun. The rest should be enough to adequately balance the gun and give it a high risk and a high reward.

 

- Synoid and Simulor Rework -

Spoiler

Simulor Mirage is going to be gone! Thank god. That's about the only good thing I can say about that rework. Cause the rest is absolutely horrid, there was no reason to nerf the range, stack damage, even the stack amount. It's really sad to see both guns go like this. I especially liked the Simulors because they were good at locking down hallways, all you had to do was sit in an area and make sure that you're front was covered, the explosions and stack radius were fine and the guns weren't over powered, there were a lot of limitations to the Simulors. It required a slower playstyle, made you sit around a bit more, it let you lock down areas and replenish energy. This was decent as is, the only frame that could provide a large amount of mobility to the gun was Mirage and we all know why, it's cause the orbs from her clones fed into her original ones allowing for mass stacking and crazy damage in a short amount of time. In my opinion the vanilla Simulor should have been buffed slightly and the nerf shouldn't have been to the gun, but to the interaction of Mirage and the gun, the stacking shouldn't work from the clones into the original orb, each clone should only be able to stack it's own orbs and perhaps some other changes should have been made to make the interaction between the Simulors and Mirage less over powered.

Overall most of the changes were for the better, however it's clear that perhaps DE is trying to get a rise out of people by making necessary moves, if the time comes then perhaps another rallying much like the one for Universal Vacuum (which by the way we still don't have, I don't understand why I can't run a kavat and still have a vacuum).

 

Thanks for reading my review, if you have any comments on what I said, feel free to share. You may be able to persuade me.

Edited March 23, 2017 by ParadAUX

[GrimAtrament]

you know anyone can look at the devworkshop

[ParadAUX]

No I don't what is it?

Never mind I realized the section that you were talking about.

Yes I understand that other people can look at the workshop, the point of the post is to see what other people think of the reworks and see if anyone can come up with a better suggestion that what I mentioned on the guns.

Maybe they see something wrong with the Simulors that I don't or the Tonkor. I'm just looking to see what other people think.

Edited March 23, 2017 by ParadAUX

[Reaver_X]

pure and simple, is ruining stuff that doesnt need to be messed with. better off using the OHma now rather than telos boltace, simulors are complete garbo now.

[Reaver_X]

Quote

-snip-

but see heres the thing, im not garbage, and i all sorts of weapons, and put time into them to make them great, i don't appreciate being cheated out of that simply because a bunch of loud scrubs don't like it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by [DE]Taylor
removed quoted comment for Guidelines violation

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

1 minute ago, Reaver_X said:

but see heres the thing, im not garbage, and i all sorts of weapons, and put time into them to make them great, i don't appreciate being cheated out of that simply because a bunch of loud scrubs don't like it.

You're not being cheated out of it because you're getting a Forma and affinity booster if you have weapons hit by the "nerf" Plus, if the weapon is a cheat to begin with, I wouldn't complain about getting called out when it gets fixed

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

6 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

You're not being cheated out of it because you're getting a Forma and affinity booster if you have weapons hit by the "nerf" Plus, if the weapon is a cheat to begin with, I wouldn't complain about getting called out when it gets fixed

I think 1 forma is a joke to be honest, both my Tonkor and Simulor have 6 and 4 formas respectively. Granted I haven't used these weapons in months as I don't enjoy them, especially the Simulor but it's more the principal behind it. I think you should get as many forma back as what was invested into it.

[Xekrin]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)AnnoyedHaddock said:

I think 1 forma is a joke to be honest,

you are getting 3.

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)AnnoyedHaddock said:

I think you should get as many forma back as what was invested into it.

Considering 99.9% of weapons require mostly madurai with a sprinkling of naramon polarities, I think 3 forma is very generous.  I doubt most weapons affected will require more than a single forma change at best.

 

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

Just now, Xekrin said:

you are getting 3.

1 per weapon yes, but nevertheless I feel a nerf should warrant compensation for all invesments into the weapon (obviously not build costs). 

[Xekrin]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)AnnoyedHaddock said:

1 per weapon yes

Ah, I see, they edited the original message which was a Forma Bundle to a single Forma per weapon.  Regardless, it really is adequate compensation considering they don't really need to do so at all.   Just my opinion obviously but they've appeared to have changed their wording to better reflect intent more clearly.  Ah well.  You takes what you gets.

[shyguyk]

Why do people act like the weapons are automatically bad without their stupid mechanics? It was the combination of stupid mechanics on top of good stats that made them excessive

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

35 minutes ago, (Xbox One)AnnoyedHaddock said:

1 per weapon yes, but nevertheless I feel a nerf should warrant compensation for all invesments into the weapon (obviously not build costs). 

You do realize that you don't LOSE the weapon, if anything you get 3 free forma for barely owning those weapons, the weapons in question still keep the forma that you've put on them.
The simulors lost their brainless feature, they're still as powerful, however you now have to manually detonate them to make full use of the damage, did you even know you could manually detonate them?

The tonkor has lost some critical chance, nothing that can't be brought back with a riven, self-damage prevents thoughtless foot explosion, bounces have been reduced for better accuracy and explosion happens sooner, it's still viable.

The telos boltace are a complete AoE joke, the fact that they even existed pushed people into using Macros and spamming slide attacks, turning the entire room into a rave fest and completely tossing aside the concept of Melee stance while clearing most of the normal-levelled content.

You're plenty compensated, if anything, you're over-compensated because they're giving you items for free only just because you own a certain weapon.

[Mattoropael]

And once again the NERF NOW whine brigade has won. I wonder what they'll want to butcher next.

This is beginning to sound a lot like that horror show called the Planetside 2 nerf cycle.

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Mattoropael

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

5 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

You do realize that you don't LOSE the weapon

Don't even know why you've asked me this

5 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

did you even know you could manually detonate them?

Yes

5 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

You're plenty compensated

This is an opinion, not fact, my opinion is different.

[DreamsmithJane]

9 hours ago, ParadAUX said:

there was no reason to nerf the range, stack damage, even the stack amount.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm actually excited to start using Synoid Simulor again, now that it promises to reward its interesting mechanics instead of just spam. The range was honestly absurd. It needed to be nerfed. Damage got moved to detonations instead, and it's up to 8 meters at full stack, which makes it still the largest AoE launcher (though smaller than the 11m merge of the current version). Spacing out stacks should allow just as much damage against few targets, and not much less against many, but requires you to actually aim and be mindful. The stack amount is not a nerf. It just lets you get vortexes more easily, and max out your explosion radius sooner. This also offers a reason to use multishot mods: higher base explosion range from single shots. And then there's that Zhuge-level status chance. Up to 98% with 3x 60/60 mods, and a guaranteed electric status in the newly enlarged 8m detonation radius? How can you not love that? I'm going to try a rad/toxin + Continuous Misery build, plus Enduring Affliction gas Lesion.

Honestly, this is overblown. They're getting rid of some of the most egregious cheese in the game. Great! Let's get back to the fun parts. I've got a Harpak crit riven to try out, too. Anyone honestly upset about seeing these weapons put in a more reasonable place probably wasn't having fun with the game in the first place, and appeasing them at the expense of everyone else just seems like a terrible idea. I don't think any of the nerfed weapons are remotely "ruined", anyway.

[painterman]

I have to disagree on the buzzlok, it got a +15 dmg, better distribution in ips and good critical chance, it could end better than the migthy boltor p, its biggest "competitor" and the simulor just got switched from spaming balls to stack balls and then get the damage, withc i dont think it will make symulor mirage go, just make then press secondary fire and get a reduced amount of dmg, still its high and with 8 metter range.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)AnnoyedHaddock said:

Don't even know why you've asked me this

Yes

This is an opinion, not fact, my opinion is different.

As per "I think 1 forma is a joke to be honest, both my Tonkor and Simulor have 6 and 4 formas respectively. Granted I haven't used these weapons in months as I don't enjoy them, especially the Simulor but it's more the principal behind it. I think you should get as many forma back as what was invested into it."

-You want to get over-compensated for a weapon that you still possess, it would be a different matter if the weapons were to be removed completely, however that is not the case.

-Good, then you can keep using the synoid simulor if you want, the purpose of this is to remove the brainless spam across the map as you fly over the enemies.

-This is rather a fact, you do not LOSE the weapon, which mean that you are getting something for free only by owning one of these weapons.
You've said it yourself, you aren't using those weapons due to not enjoying the mechanic behind them, not only does this not directly affect you, but you also receive free items for keeping those meta weapon in your inventory. If you didn't have any forma/potato into those weapon, I doubt they'd even stay in your inventory, so again why should you get compensated for something that you don't use.

You are being compensated for no real reasons.
 

[ParadAUX]

12 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

The tonkor has lost some critical chance, nothing that can't be brought back with a riven, self-damage prevents thoughtless foot explosion, bounces have been reduced for better accuracy and explosion happens sooner, it's still viable.

The whole idea of using a riven for any weapon is a joke, anyone can simply say just slap a riven on it and it'll be the same is it was before. However really each riven is different and you won't always get the crit chance buff that you're looking for.

Also is it one forma per weapon or every single forma plus a 3 day affinity booster? Because quite frankly I don't think a 6 forma tonkor can be compensated by 1 forma and 3 day affinity booster.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

22 minutes ago, ParadAUX said:

The whole idea of using a riven for any weapon is a joke, anyone can simply say just slap a riven on it and it'll be the same is it was before. However really each riven is different and you won't always get the crit chance buff that you're looking for.

Also is it one forma per weapon or every single forma plus a 3 day affinity booster? Because quite frankly I don't think a 6 forma tonkor can be compensated by 1 forma and 3 day affinity booster.

I'd say it was mostly an example, I don't quite understand the drop of 10% crit chance myself, but it's not really something I'd cry about, I mean it still has 25% chance which is kind of already huge when you look at the majority of weapons that are available at Mastery 5. If the 10% crit drop is really bothering you ( Generally speaking here ), then have a 150%-300% crit chance riven on top.

And it is 1 forma per weapon plus a 3 day affinity booster, the weapons are still viable, the builds don't significantly change so there's no reason to refund all forma/potatoes. If anything you get items for free just for owning weapons.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

14 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

You're not being cheated out of it because you're getting a Forma and affinity booster if you have weapons hit by the "nerf" Plus, if the weapon is a cheat to begin with, I wouldn't complain about getting called out when it gets fixed

it is not fixed... these weapons were killed. they rather just remive it from the arsenal.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

After hundreds of threads of people asking for nerfs. Here it is. Hope they are happy.

Some people might be thinking, well but now those weapons suck. Well where were you in the last " reworks"? 

Im actually extremely happy. A lot of people asked ( including me) that some forgotten weapons needed to be look at. This is a good thing.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

2 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

it is not fixed... these weapons were killed. they rather just remive it from the arsenal.

Git gud. Literally, if you have to rely on a weapons OP gimmick then this is not the game for you

[Mattoropael]

3 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

it is not fixed... these weapons were killed. they rather just remive it from the arsenal.

It makes me laugh that people actually think the forma and affinity compensation are for anyone to "respec their nerfed weapon", the devs included if they believe the words they're writing.

No, the affinity booster and the forma are basically saying "we completely wrecked those weapons, but we don't want you to be too upset, so here's something to help you find some replacements for those"... which I do appreciate but would appreciate more if they don't wreck them to begin with.

[Heckzu]

3 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

it is not fixed... these weapons were killed. they rather just remive it from the arsenal.

The Tonkor has a shortened fuse timer and reduced bounce, which makes it much easier to hit targets if you miss and the grenade is less likely to bounce back at you.

The Simulor is essentially becoming a Penta 2.0 with no self damage and no limitation on how many rounds can be out simultaneously. What's wrong with that?

The new Telos Boltace mechanic allows you to pull in enemies or to push them back, allowing you to cc enemies.

How were these weapons killed? 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

11 hours ago, Heckzu said:

The Tonkor has a shortened fuse timer and reduced bounce, which makes it much easier to hit targets if you miss and the grenade is less likely to bounce back at you.

The Simulor is essentially becoming a Penta 2.0 with no self damage and no limitation on how many rounds can be out simultaneously. What's wrong with that?

The new Telos Boltace mechanic allows you to pull in enemies or to push them back, allowing you to cc enemies.

How were these weapons killed? 

with tonkor  people will just use zarr or other straight shooting launcher because of the firing mechanic.

synoid reduce the damage and range which will not make you depend on alt fire very clunky.

the spammability of the boltace ability is the reason they use it. now it is on cooldown so it is not that reliable.

going way back the nerf train ash users was greatly reduced because of his nerf.

the point is the real reason these weapons are being used are removed.

tonkors no self damage

simulor range and damage for me it is more on range

boltace spam slide.

dont take me wrong i know they are really op but the nerf seems too much for them to be still viable or there is always better weapon for the effect we want.