Endless missions reward scaling encourages not to play further 20 waves/minutes

[ZavarkaGovna]

I love Warframe, but what (imo) keeps me, and I presume a lot of other veterans, from playing it more and loving it more is... lack of appropriate rewards for actually being good at the game and experiencing really difficult content. The game suggests by its reward system (aabcaabc) to just repeat the mission, instead of keeping at it.

Probably this was brought up many times before me, but is there a reason why rewards repeat in aabcaabc fashion? Of course that maybe for the purpose of "exploity" players to not accumulate a lot of good rewards (cause of the numbers and the quality of the rewards going up) from like 3 hour runs or something. But I'm not sure if that's a good reason to ruin the fun for everyone else.

I want to experience difficult content and see how rewards get better progressively up to a level I want (feel comfortable with), and that's far further then just 20 minutes/waves. I know you tried to fix this with how fissure endless now works, where one line of rewards do not repeat and actually get better far enough to experience difficult content. But that's not the solution. At least because sometimes there's no appropriate fissure mission available (axi endless).

Possible solutions?

1. AABCCCCCC..... type of rotation, after the 3rd round of rewards player will get just Cs. this way a player at least not encouraged to just repeat the mission from the beginning.

Also suggested variants: AABCABCBCCCC... , AABCBCBCBCBC....., AABCABCBCBCBC...

2. A A B C A*2 A*2 B*2 C*2 A*3 A*3 B*3 C*3. Same rewards, but just doubled or trippled progressively indeffinetely or up to some multiplier.

3. (not optimal, but still something) To always have every mission type + relic type combination fissure mission available?

4.  To add endless missions that start from 90-100 (or some other high-level) difficulty and have better rewards than other missions. (suggested by Phatose)

5. (not optimal imo, but still something) Oh, I did a 40 minute run of such and such survival? Well, maybe the next time I run it, the game would let me start at the 0 minute, 20 minute, or 40 minute mark. (suggested by tnemec)

6. (not optimal imo, but still something) Fissure missions already use an escalating reward system for endless missions. Why not just bring that over to regular endless? (by xrufus7x)

7. (not optimal imo, but still something) to rewards credits (and good chunks of them) on top of what the rotations already offer. (by jinxed_07)

8. (not optimal, but still something) to take the Void out of the normal fissure rotation and make the enemies drop reactant inherently (without the need to be re-corrupted first). Making Void endless missions basically identical to Fissure Orokin Endless. (by jinxed_07)

9. What about chance to get double loot for each rotation after the first C rotation? Like the AABC rotation after the first and each part has a 20% chance to give you an extra roll. 3rd full AABC rotation and you'd get 40% chance per individual rotation. 6th full AABC rotation and you'd get a 100% chance at getting two loot rolls per individual rotation. 11th full AABC and you'd get three total loot rolls per individual rotation. (by AwesmePersn)

Would love to hear your answer on this.

Thank you very much for a great game and all the fun I had with it.

Edited March 24, 2017 by ZavarkaGovna

[(PSN)DBR87]

Well they did add the mechanic that you get XP, Resource, and other boost when doing endless Fissure runs and those boost stack up to a point so there is that.

EDIT: Must of missed that you mentioned that...

Edited March 23, 2017 by (PS4)DBR87

[Skaleek]

AABCABCBCCCCCCCCCC, imo.

[ZavarkaGovna]

Just now, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Well they did add the mechanic that you get XP, Resource, and other boost when doing endless Fissure runs and those boost stack up to a point so there is that.

I took that into account, please read the whole post, thank you

[Aratir]

AABCAABCAABChost disconect kicked back to ship lost everything because of no server.

[Uan91]

I just did a "long run" defense lith with a friend, i was a banshee, my mate trinity.

For 34 waves the objective didn't received any damage, I kept my eyes ne the lifebar of the objective all the time.

then a corpus onehitted the objective at the wave 34.

How is it possible that it happens ina level 9 mission?

[(PSN)iBoiz]

2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

AABCABCBCCCCCCCCCC, imo.

Thats actually a great idea!

[VentiGlondi]

I think AABCBCBC would be a better variant of #1

[Euphoria]

I only wait for the endless fissure missions so I can have a good time staying longer than 1-2 hrs.

Anything 20 min or lower is just not fun as they are too weak. I enjoy killing high level mobs as it grants lots of focus and not to mention the relics/boosters it provide throughout the rotations. If you think it's not fun after 20 minute, you can extract and start over.

[Zeyez]

well, in void fissures, you can earn one upgraded relic every 25 waves, being the first as 25 void traces, the 50° is 50 void traces, from 75 and onward, radiant upgraded

 

but sure, if you are asking for the basic rewards to be changed from AABC order, can be an possibility

Edited March 23, 2017 by Zeyez

[Phatose]

I'd rather not see long runs get significantly better rewards, not just more of them.  Being glued in place to get the better rewards isn't pleasant, and I'd rather not have to compare if I want good rewards, or if I want to be able to get up and pee.

If we want harder content, we should just have missions that start harder, not missions that require 40 mins of play before they get interesting.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Phatose

[ZavarkaGovna]

15 minutes ago, Phatose said:

I'd rather not see long runs get significantly better rewards, not just more of them.  Being glued in place to get the better rewards isn't pleasant, and I'd rather not have to compare if I want good rewards, or if I want to be able to get up and pee.

If we want harder content, we should just have missions that start harder, not missions that require 40 mins of play before they get interesting.

Yes. Maybe some endless missions that start from 90-100 level difficulty and have better rewards than other missions. That's also a great solution.

Edited March 23, 2017 by ZavarkaGovna

[-dicht.Seleszi-]

C rotations should definitely be more frequent if you're going for a very long run, that'd finally encourage some people to play the game..

[lukinu_u]

Honestly, the rotation C is not always the best, so more reward per rotation with the time is probably the better solution.

I suggest something like :
A A B C (current cycle)

A A B CA
A A BA CA
A AA BA CB
AA AA BB CC (first  "big" cycle)

AA AA BB CCA
AA AA BBA CCA
AA AAA BBA CCB
AAA AAA BBB CCC (second "big" cycle)

And this, continuing indefently.

Edit : To be more clear, the spaces define the different rotations. If we take the example of this line : "AA AA BBA CCA", you will get :

• A reward + A reward on the first rotation.
• A reward + A reward on the second rotation.
• B reward + B reward + A reward on the third rotation.
• C reward + C reward + A reward on the forth rotation.

Edited March 23, 2017 by lukinu_u

[Trichouette]

As I explained countless time to many of the people & friends I play with, devs can't really do that.

Why ? Because technically you can stay FOREVER in an endless mission, just because of how broken our abilities & weapons are.

At some point you could be playing defense for 5 hours and get only C rotation just because of vauban's bastille or equinox' sleep + covert lethality.

 

And yes, I know they granted bonus on endless fissure, but these aren't that big and fissure missions at least have nulifiers.

At some point a level 150+ nulifier will be able to one-shot any frame with any amount of armor.

While a grineer defense could be held for an eternity thanks to CC

Edited March 23, 2017 by Trichouette

[Skaleek]

15 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Honestly, the rotation C is not always the best, so more reward per rotation with the time is probably the better solution.

I suggest something like :
A A B C (current cycle)

A A B CA
A A BA CA
A AA BA CB
AA AA BB CC (first  "big" cycle)

AA AA BB CCA
AA AA BBA CCA
AA AAA BBA CCB
AAA AAA BBB CCC (second "big" cycle)

And this, continuing indefently.

You realize that even when you do AA AA BB CC its effectively identical to AABC right? If anything i see your rotations have extra A's, which nobody really wants. Also your rotation is overly convoluted. If you think rotation A's are the best, you run the mission to AA and stop and repeat. B and C don't have that option.

You have:
38 A's
16 B's
14 C's

This is actually worse than what we have now. 68 rotations in the current system would net:
34 A's
17 B's
17 C's

Your suggestion is a straight downgrade, and honestly, doesn't really differ from our current system other then to add complication and less rotation C and B...


 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Skaleek

[lukinu_u]

7 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

You realize that even when you do AA AA BB CC its effectively identical to AABC right? If anything i see your rotations have extra A's, which nobody really wants. Also your rotation is overly convoluted.

You have:
38 A's
16 B's
14 C's

This is actually worse than what we have now. 68 rotations in the current system would net:
34 A's
17 B's
17 C's

Your suggestion is a straight downgrade...


 

I think you didn't really undestand (I can agree it's not really clear XD).

The spaces define the different rotations. If we take the example of this line : "AA AA BBA CCA", you will get :

• A reward + A reward on the first rotation.
• A reward + A reward on the second rotation.
• B reward + B reward + A reward on the third rotation.
• C reward + C reward + A reward on the forth rotation.

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by lukinu_u

[Skaleek]

5 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

I think you didn't really undestand (I can agree it's not really clear XD).

The spaces define the different rotations. If we take the example of this line : "AA AA BBA CCA", you will get :

• A reward + A reward on the first rotation.
• A reward + A reward on the second rotation.
• B reward + B reward + A reward on the third rotation.
• C reward + C reward + A reward on the forth rotation.

 

Oh, well thats just an increase in rewards flat, Ain't gonna say no to that. But you know DE would never be on board with that....

[ZavarkaGovna]

Another possible solutions:

(not optimal, but still something) Oh, I did a 40 minute run of such and such survival? Well, maybe the next time I run it, the game would let me start at the 0 minute, 20 minute, or 40 minute mark. (suggested by tnemec) Rewards are still not perfect, but at least you don't need to wait for challenging stuff. there's no need to force a grown person to do 20-40 minutes of nothing (mindnumbingly easy content) to get to a good stuff. Time is a precious commodity.

Also:

(not optimal, but still something) Fissure missions already use an escalating reward system for endless missions. Why not just bring that over to regular endless? (by xrufus7x)

Suggestions by jinxed_07:

to rewards credits (and good chunks of them) on top of what the rotations already offer. It doesn't disrupt the AABC schedule, it can't hurt the trading economy, and it isn't overpowered.

to take the Void out of the normal fissure rotation and make the enemies drop reactant inherently (without the need to be re-corrupted first). This would give players a reason to visit the Void again and would give us Endless missions that are persistent and therefore reliable.

What about chance to get double loot for each rotation after the first C rotation? Like the AABC rotation after the first and each part has a 20% chance to give you an extra roll. 3rd full AABC rotation and you'd get 40% chance per individual rotation. 6th full AABC rotation and you'd get a 100% chance at getting two loot rolls per individual rotation. 11th full AABC and you'd get three total loot rolls per individual rotation. (by AwesmePersn)

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by ZavarkaGovna