Who's a better tank?

[mosaickle]

Frost or Rhino?

Looking for an all-rounder, I feel like Rhino is the one whereas Frost is still amazing but mainly at stationary defense etc

So all rounder, Rhino? or is there something I'm overlooking for Frosty the Snowman?

[Mover-NeRo]

From these two...Rhino.

But if you are looking for Tank you shoudl use Chroma, Inaros, Valkyr..Nidus.

[(XBOX)Senor Twix]

All of the above

[FlyingLlama]

Rhino is a better traditional tank, although his actual defensive abilities are not on the level of Nidus/Chroma/Inaros. Frost is a defensive caster, his high armor does nothing useful except add to snowglobe HP.

[AdamantSpartan]

I can't answer this.

I'm biased as a Frost main.

[Nyaa314]

Rhino is better for facetanking low-mid level missions without an objective to defend.

Frost is actually a decent dps at these levels with 235 range, 175 eff, and ~100 str.

[-Temp0-]

Tank in which sense?

There's nothing better for just taking damage than Wukong but he doesn't protect anything he just takes damage and doesn't die. Frost is team oriented however. Rhino is just meh not this not that. You can mod him for CC or survivability but you can never achieve both at once in one build and his survivability is not that great either.

Edited March 23, 2017 by -Temp0-

[AerinSol]

Nezha and Nidus.

[Xzorn]

14 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

There's nothing better for just taking damage than Wukong but he doesn't protect anything he just takes damage and doesn't die.

Perma Hysteria Valkyr is still the best. Obv cuz she's immortal.

 

@OP in terms of taking abuse; it depends how far you go. Frames like Chroma or Eternal War Valkyr might seems tanky for lvl 40-100 but armor based mitigation is flawed by game mechanics which makes frames that rely on buff based mitigation superior in the end. Nidus, Nekros and Trinity being some of the beefiest and most reliable damage eaters in the game.

Inaros relies more on his CC later in levels than his eHP but comparing Rhino and Frost, I'd say Rhino, even though Frost can technically be immortal inside his bubble by casting it every 4 seconds. You hardly get to play doing that and have 0 mobility which I assume isn't something you'd enjoy doing.

[Riaxyron]

If you mean the general tank, then it is Rhino. His abilities if modded correctly can allow him to take lots of shots as well as provide decent CC and buffs for his team. Frost is a tank but more of a caster; he does not stand at the front much like Rhino though has more Crowd-control abilities than Rhino which make up for it.

Though if you want the all-rounder then Frost is the one to get before even Valkyr, Wukong, Rhino, Chroma, Atlas and any other frame that can tank. Frost has by far the most uses from the tank frames as far as I can tell and he is useful in most missions.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Riaxyron

[-Temp0-]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Perma Hysteria Valkyr is still the best. Obv cuz she's immortal.

She's not "the best" because the energy drain past 50% or so is even worse than being around a leech. There's no "perma" hysteria anymore. At some point past a certain level enemies will one shot her instead of activating rage and giving her energy unlike wukong who screams "shoot me some more". I don't count dropping several energy pads hiding somehwere every other minute as being invincible or tanky. 

Wukong is also immortal since all you need to do is pressing 2 once in a while (and that once in a while is literally once in a while because even in boss sortie with energy reductin condition you an go for minute(s) without doing it being under the fire the whole time) while not being penalized for using your 2. The only thing that can kill him is the same thing that kills Valkyr - running like an idiot in a null's bubble or pressing 2 in front of a bombard. The obvious downside is that his dps is nowhere near hers.

[Xzorn]

6 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

She's not "the best" because the energy drain past 50% or so is even worse than being around a leech. There's no "perma" hysteria anymore. At some point past a certain level enemies will one shot her instead of activating rage and giving her energy unlike wukong who screams "shoot me some more". I don't count dropping several energy pads hiding somehwere every other minute as being invincible or tanky. 

Wukong is also immortal since all you need to do is pressing 2 once in a while (and that once in a while is literally once in a while because even in boss sortie with energy reductin condition you an go for minute(s) without doing it being under the fire the whole time) while not being penalized for using your 2. The only thing that can kill him is the same thing that kills Valkyr - running like an idiot in a null's bubble or pressing 2 in front of a bombard. The obvious downside is that his dps is nowhere near hers.

 

Yea there's still perma Hysteria.  I never turn my Hysteria off over a 2 hour survival thanks to a certain Arcane set.

Wukong is still a durable frame but it's nothing compared to taking lvl 350 rockets on MoT to the face like Valkyr can do. Wukongs biggest perk over Hysteria Valkyr is that he can use guns. I wouldn't use Valkyr outside Hysteria honestly. She's kinda mediocre. Rather use Chroma if I'm going to rely on armor based damage reduction.

[-Temp0-]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Yea there's still perma Hysteria.  I never turn my Hysteria off over a 2 hour survival thanks to a certain Arcane set.

. Wukongs biggest perk over Hysteria Valkyr is that he can use guns. I wouldn't use Valkyr outside Hysteria honestly. She's kinda mediocre. Rather use Chroma if I'm going to rely on armor based damage reduction.

If you need a fulll set of arcanes to play a warframe? Yeah no. That's not how it works. Especially since energize is nowhere near as common as for example trickery or as cheap. So majority will never have it.

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Wukong is still a durable frame but it's nothing compared to taking lvl 350 rockets on MoT to the face like Valkyr can do

There's nothing that rocket is going to do with him. As no matter how much damage he will take to his face, 1000 or 10 000 000 he won't die as long as his 2 is active. As long as he takes damage his 2 will be active (i.e. he will have energy to use it). That's all. He cannot die as simple as that. 

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I wouldn't use Valkyr outside Hysteria honestly.

That's why I'm saying Wukong is better for tanking (not doing damage however). He can do without energize what Valkyr can do no longer. All you need is vitality, flow and rage don't even need primed flow tbh and don't need arcane energize for it to work.

[Xzorn]

18 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

If you need a fulll set of arcanes to play a warframe? Yeah no. That's not how it works. Especially since energize is nowhere near as common as for example trickery or as cheap. So majority will never have it.

 

That's like saying one ability is better than another because you lack a certain mod.

It might be out of your range but it's not out of everyone's and it's a part of the game.

Wukong wont die from one 10k missile or 2 or 4 missiles but after continuously being one shot (Which he will be) he has to reset his Defy. That moment of vulnerability alone makes perma Hysteria better. Not to mention Hysteria is immune to status effects and knockdown. She can also force melee execute attacks on heavy targets.

Valkyr is capable of being a better damage eater and better damage dealer regardless if you have the pieces of the puzzle to make it work.

[-Temp0-]

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That's like saying one ability is better than another because you lack a certain mod.

You can't possibly compare a simple mod with a full set of rare arcanes just stop this, that's pathetic and sad.

The whole point of her nerf was to prevent people from staying in that perma hysteria which obviously worked as there's a limited amount of people even doing raids, especially JV.

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Wukong wont die from one 10k missile or 2 or 4 missiles but after continuously being one shot (Which he will be) he has to reset his Defy. That moment of vulnerability alone makes perma Hysteria better.

You have 10 seconds of real invulrn until you will be one-shotted again and in many hours of playing I was downed liek that maybe once or twice. You also don't have to be paranoid exiting defy and watching the range of your ability like you would with Valkyr in fear that there's still enemies around.

Many more times I was oneshotted playing Valkyr at times where I had no energize (and even now I only have level 3) because even with naramon any serious enemy in the same mot will one shot her as soon as she leaves her invis. With Wukong you just jump in the aim most of the times and press 2. Your chances of dying are like 0,0001% that way.

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It might be out of your range but it's not out of everyone's and it's a part of the game.

It's not "out of my range" but maybe you can stop being condescending for once and remember that not everyone is doing JV or have 1000+ plat to spend on a set. Or that arcanes aren't a part of any warframe build and never will be.

Rage and vitality cost like 20 p both so literally even the newest players can get them. Arcane energize is one of the rarest (partly because you can only do one JV raid a day) and most expensive arcanes and just a bandaid for a overnerfed and overall useless frame with overrated (now) invincibility. Wukong can literally do the same things she can except for damage. If you don't have full set(s) of arcanes you will run into teh same problem of leaving hysteria only with Valkyr you will also have to use energy restores so instead of a split second of being vulnerable you will spend 1+ seconds.

This is not a question of how you can make valkyr still work it's a question of what frame can tank better. Right now it's Wukong hands down in terms of personal survivability, in terms of protecting teammates and objectives it's Frost. You build it and you can do that, no dancing around or expensive parts needed. He can also 'tank' for teammates with no drawbacks to an extent in mission like Kuva farming while currently no other frame can since Nyx was nerfed and Valkyr can't use guardian derision. That's literally all.

 

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Valkyr is capable of being a better damage eater and better damage dealer regardless if you have the pieces of the puzzle to make it work.

 

She's not. As soon (and it will be soon even with p flow and all energy efficiency mods installed) you run out of energy without arcane energize you will be in a worse position that Wukong that deactivated his 2 for a split second to renew it because you have no way to replenish energy by normal or natural means other than dropping pads.

That's why no one runs her now outside of boss fights.

[ashrah]

rhino is well rounded frame and buffer is very good and cheap to make good.. forost is more for def 

[SilverMarketer]

Rhino is better in terms of Tanking Huge amount of Damages and Buffing allies.

Frost is better in terms of Creating Defensive Positions and providing CC.

 

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

You can't possibly compare a simple mod with a full set of rare arcanes just stop this, that's pathetic and sad.

 

It sounds more like you just didn't consider that option and as a result are wrong in your rankings between the two. Pulling straws in order to be right.

There is no difference between an Arcane and a mod other than the price. You don't see anyone saying "Maiming Strike isn't part of a build cuz it's expensive". Of course not, because that would be stupid. You might as well claim everyone should keep 175% Efficiency cuz Zenurik isn't part of a build either. They're both objects in the game that can be used as part of a build. Arcanes are literally made for high end builds. If you don't want to use them as part of your builds; that's fine, just don't try and claim I'm wrong.

I take Arcanes and Focus school into consideration for all my builds as any veteran player should. I run around with no efficiency on many frames because I take my Arcanes and/or Focus into consideration. It gives me an extra mod slot, sometimes two. That's how you make a good build. Here's another one for Chroma. It's just about the best Chroma build you can get.

Spoiler

^^^ Arcanes & Focus as part of a build ^^^

I understand that not everyone has access to some things. That's why in my first post I did not recommend a perma Hysteria Valkyr to OP. I simply corrected your claims about Wukong being the best.