[Update 20] Octavia Feedback Megathread

[xTysonx]

After playing Octavia for 2 days , I figured i'd add my 2cents which mainly is a repeat of others:

Passive: Description should be changed to inform players that using an ability refreshes the "Inspiration" energy regen buff, current description is misleading.  Ex: Briefly replenish energy over time to Octavia and Nearby Allies for 30s every time an ability is used.

1. Mallet- It should be clearer that enemies MUST HIT the mallet for it to begin amplifying the damage back. LoS attack range doesn't make sense since sound waves can travel though most walls, give mallet the ability to bypass walls similar to current punchthough where the range falls off the denser the wall.

2. Resonator- Its hard to make full use of the mobility, where it rolls feels pretty random, sometimes inconstant/inconvenient . It makes our only Mallet counterproductive since enemies caught in the lure are more focused chasing it instead of attacking it. Resonator should do longer stops/stay closer to Octavia/and give Mallet priority aggro/taunt.

3.Metronome- Clutter, Clutter and more Clutter. The activation shouldn't be tied to the melody since melody will have the most variety out of the 3 beats, which makes it harder/easier depending on the person is truly making a good song with few notes, or cheesing it by filling the whole bar with 1 note. From my understanding, everyone has the same BPM, so why were the buffs not tied to the BPM since its standardized and easier to figure out without context (such as tapping your foot to a beat) The sound waves get irritating , given the massive natural range of Octavia's skills and IMO the worst visual clutter of all 4 skills even with 80% range, needs to be toned down visually or completely changed to a new effect. While activation by doing a specific task is a cool idea, you have to make the context for tenno WITHOUT octavia much more clearer both visually and in the buff icons.

4.AMP- Description should be changed to notifying that using the other 3 skills increase the decibel level significantly, AMPs shouldnt stack, simply the higher DMG% amp should override the other in terms of the ally buff.

[Zeclem]

all this people calling her op when i cant even use the metronome buffs. why world?

[Huggalump]

Just came to the forums to say this. I made a new song today, hopped into a game, and thought I was losing my mind.

Glad to see other people are hearing the bug and I haven't lost my rhythm haha

[PsiWarp]

Good idea on the taunt. I like that Resonator can make Mallet's AoE mobile, but its admittedly strong CC is actively working against Mallet's function plus the roller has a mind of its own about where it wants to go (often very far away and out of sight).

So alongside making charmed enemies attack Mallet, there are some more suggestion I'd like to see added to the standalone abilities to make the Resonating Mallet combo more reliable:

• Transfer stored damage: throw a new Mallet into the old Mallet's range to transfer the stored damage. Since the damage stored is spent when beat into enemies, this isn't really OP when repeatedly recast.
• Obedient Roller: when first deployed (and recast), Resonator follows Octavia closely like Warframe Specters and now comes with a press-X prompt to un-leash it from Octavia (so it can go around charming enemies on its own). Resonator will only pick up Mallet if it is un-leashed from Octavia. When it picks up a Mallet, it will return to following Octavia around until she gives the go-ahead again.
  • This does several things:
    • Allows Octavia to protect herself from nearby enemies who cross paths with the Resonator, making her a true Pied Piper that has lulled enemies following her.
    • Gives the player options to hold an area with Mallet or have the roller carry it around once given permission. Right now, you either don't deploy Resonator so your Mallet stays put or you wait until it expires before you try to hold the fort.
    • Ensures the roller remains close by when it picks up Mallet, allowing all abilities to become auras around Octavia, making her a true bard-type character at the expense of occasional crossfire from enemies being taunted to attack Mallet. The player can choose to unleash the Resonating Mallet to cause musical mayhem elsewhere.

[AceOfCayde]

I bought the Octavia pack day 1 on the market, and I've had a lot of fun with her, but as always there are a few things that could use some major improvement:

Mallet - Honestly, on it's own I really like mallet. Good for CC, and good damage as well. It seems like infested enemies don't like to attack it very much though, which makes Octavia far less useful in those mission.

Resonator  - I was really excited to have a pet disco ball, but the combination with Mallet is just the worst power combination I've seen in this game. I understand some people might want their little roller to carry around Mallet, but the fact that the two can't be used at the same time without the Resonator hunting down and kidnapping my Mallet for an unwanted adventure is bothersome, and as a result I have not actually used Resonator during combat. The description of this ability is kind of misleading, as well. "Launches a rollerball that charms foes to follow it." I was expecting to hit 2 and watch that thing go flying, not calmly meander around in random nonsensical paths.

Metronome - This is just way too much stuffed into one ability, and is terrible to try to utilize actively in a mission. Half the time I finally do get the buff I want (normally nocturne) It doesn't work because some other buff that I don't care about is already active. Maybe make this ability more like Ivara's Quiver and give an option to cycle through what kind of buff you want to activate, and just forget about trying to force us to dance while we're fighting...

Amp - There are things that I would want changed with Resonator and Metronome, but their effects are not something I so desperately desire as to make a big fuss. Amp, however, is a bit more gamebreaking for me. You already fixed it not working for melee weapons, but it appears that it doesn't work for Warframe abilities either. I was hoping for a decent buff frame to use as an alternative to Rhino, but I guess not. If you are going to make a buff exclusive to weapons, at least be upfront and mention it in the details. "Draws power from the decibel level of sound in the area and uses it to amplify a weapon damage buff for Octavia and her allies."

Even for weapons though, this doesn't seem to work properly. I tested this in the Simulacrum with and without Amp active, and got displeasing results. I tested this with Vulkar, since it's a single shot weapon, against level 30 Drekar Lancers. My results:

Torso shot, no Amp: 535 damage

Torso Shot, Amp (343%): 604 damage

Headshot, no Amp: 803 damage

Headshot, Amp (343%): 1208 damage.

 

There is clearly a buff occurring, but it does not appear to be nearly what the buff amount is displayed as. This is something I'm not so sure if it needs a fix or an explanation, because it seems the actual effects of this frame's abilities were not very well explained from the start.

 

Overall I like the frame, I appreciate the quick hotfixes, but it still needs some work.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Ascendantz

[Omnimorph]

On 3/27/2017 at 5:07 AM, FoxsongHD said:

I don't really know how to put this into words but please give octavia music "real" notes. Everything sounds synthetic and not like an actual, physical, instrument. Drums and Guitar notes just don't sound that good when they sound like some midi you would find in a sonic fan game.

Unfortunately, while I'm sure they'll release more instruments in the future, so there will be more aural variety, it's always going to "sound like midi", because basically it is (or the equivalent).  That's what samples tend to sound like if you don't have extensive software to mould and mangle them into a more realistic shape in the studio.

The music system is very basic, but it has to be for the purpose it serves.  (e.g. it has to be pentatonic because random pentatonic things blended together will always sound harmonious, whereas stuff in 8 note scales could sound cacophonous from different people making things unaware of each other, and it would induce brain-ache in most players having to cope with more than 5 "notes", plus it would take up tons more screen real estate. It also has to be a set tempo - in this case 120bpm, the standard tempo for a lot of music, particularly house - and it also has to be quarter notes and sixteenths)  There's a fair amount of variation and creativity possible within the limitations, but it's never going to sound "pro".

Actually it's quite a clever system they've set up (when it's in sync, as it isn't atm since the last hotfix) because essentially you're "mixing" on the fly as a byproduct of gameplay (bass comes in, drops out, melody comes in, bass and drums come in together, etc. - and even more so with different parts from different Octavias in the team.  However for that to happen, and for it to be gameplay-friendly, it has to have those limitations.

Basically, if everyone sticks to something with a straight "clubby" house beat, "four on the floor" and a simple bassline, with the melody doing something rhythmically regular, it'll be fairly unobtrusive and it will work (i.e. you won't get too sick of it because it'll sort of be like background music in a movie, and it will always sound interesting and varied if there are different Octavias in a team, because their individual creativities will blend together), but I think the more "characterful" you try to make it, the more "different", or the more you try to copy complex well-known tunes, the more likely it is to sound weird and "midi".

As a musician, knowing how complex music is and how many pitfalls, actually they've done an amazing job given their limited resources, and given the limitations of gameplay parameters.  To do something like this properly in the way I think you would like, would require a whole development team dedicated just to that one task, working for a few years, and probably the invention of really cutting edge music sequencing software that's never been made before.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Omnimorph

[Rythiman]

Wow, what kind of hotfix screws that up? All my beats are ruined!

[EternalOdyessy]

I didn't realize, until nearly after a day of playing her, that I can actually observe the mallet (by hovering the cursor over it) and noticed a bar over the mallet. 

 

Could this meter be moved to the hud itself? Most of the time, I've used it alongside Resonator, so it's always moving, I'll never have time to see how amped it is from enemy fire.

 

It'd be a small change, but it'd allow me to know how powerful it's gotten in each deployment, and if it's actually doing damage.

[Rankii]

I don't know about the technical side of music, but I sure as shyt know that we need spanish guitar, trumpets, a baritone dude's voice, and more notes so I can be Zorro. Also more classical instruments; synth stuff is fine but if I hear the gamma or delta set again I'm going to regrow my beard and tear it out.

[Kaokasalis]

2 hours ago, Alcatraz said:

Use 3rd skill after using 2nd skill to increase the range on it..

Its Octavias fourth ability Amp that increases the range on Mallet.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Hieracon

[JustOR1G1N]

I'd like to see pitch setting for notes in mandachord. Also, why we can't set our own tempo (BPM) for our melodies? I wanted to try to recreate some Pendulum stuff, but the tempo doesn't fit for drum'n'bass at all. I hope DE will improve it later to make it much more fun to use, because the idea of that warframe itself is great and I never seen anything like this before. And it would be appreciated if we could set note length.
Maybe add some "Advanced mode" option for those settings?

Edited March 28, 2017 by JustOR1G1N

[FriarTuck]

Sometimes Resonator+Mallet combo begins to increase damage, although no one is attacking it. No idea why it happens.

Little suggestion: Malleted Resonator not looses or even slightly increases its damage if Octavia follows conga-line.

[Rin01]

3 hours ago, Rankii said:

I don't know about the technical side of music, but I sure as shyt know that we need spanish guitar, trumpets, a baritone dude's voice, and more notes so I can be Zorro. Also more classical instruments; synth stuff is fine but if I hear the gamma or delta set again I'm going to regrow my beard and tear it out.

I am sure they will add more instruments at a later date. I personally think the most important thing to address at the moment is how repetitive the loops can get. You will grow tired of the same short loop over and over, no matter what instruments we have to use. So I think being able to string songs together would be a more pressing improvement than adding more instruments right now.

At the moment the only way to break up the repetitive feel of the loop is to have moments where you don't use one or more of Octavia's powers, but then that is affecting your gameplay just so you can save your ears and your sanity. Even a great tune can get dull after 10-20 mins of it looping over and over. So having the ability to swap to/cycle through different songs would be a much appreciated feature. After that I would love to see more instruments added.

[DeMonkey]

Going to be blunt here, I think Octavia sucks.

Her gameplay that is, the music composing and hearing it in mission and all that is very cool don't get me wrong but it feels like all of the development went into that instead of making a fun frame.

#1 Mallet is straight up overpowered, and not even in the fun way imo. No, you throw it down and watch enemies shoot it till it pumps out so much damage that they die as soon as they step in range.

''But how is that boring'', well fellow forum user it's because it means you get the best out of the ability by not actually actively fighting the enemy yourself. The more enemies you kill yourself the less damage that gets pumped into it and the less damage it deals.

It also promotes bland stationary gameplay. You can only throw one, throwing another resets the damage output, it gets a significant buff from Amp which has a set area and throwing a Roller down directly reduces how much the mallet gets shot. So it literally works best as a deployable that you stand next to and do nothing more than refresh.

#2 Already covered, it reduces the effectiveness of Mallet, will quite happily roll out of Amp's buff radius I've noticed as well.

#3 Can't really understand what anyone was thinking whilst designing this ability.

The buffs are ridiculous to get, I get them more often than not by accident rather through actually trying. And if I am trying it's taking my attention off fighting... I'm playing Warframe, not Guitar Hero.

 

Almost impossible to accurately shoot through the constantly moving bright every waves at anything below me. Which was most of the map. There's already a perfect alternative to this, give it the same sort of effect Equinox's 4th has where it's actually on the floor and walls and doesn't get in the way.

#4 Also invites stationary bland gameplay, buffing things is good, pushing you to stay in a single location for it's duration is bad.

Tl;DR You've been making strides to eliminate stationary/bland/easy gameplay, and yet you've just released Octavia which is the epitome of these 3 things.

I think I'll be sticking with Wukong. Whilst he's complete easy-mode at least he's fun to play and requires me to actually fight.

Edited March 28, 2017 by DeMonkey

[._.-._.]

A nice addition for warframe, but i wonder if the potential is (currently) limited to bpm 120, D minor, pentatonic.

 

Just (suggestion) have a rework like this:

-allow us to compose in different transpose so everyone can unlock more potential

-allow us to compose in different bpm, so not only limited to 120, but compose in faster or slower music

-change pentatonic to heptatonic placement note. This will unlock more potential too, for sure

 

Also, try have a look at advanced mario sequencer program (the spiritual successor of mario paint composer) for more references.

[BUAHAHAHAHA]

1 minute ago, Primbone said:

A nice addition for warframe, but i wonder if the potential is (currently) limited to bpm 120, D minor, pentatonic.

 

Just (suggestion) have a rework like this:

-allow us to compose in different transpose so everyone can unlock more potential

-allow us to compose in different bpm, so not only limited to 120, but compose in faster or slower music

-change pentatonic to heptatonic placement note. This will unlock more potential too, for sure

 

Also, try have a look at advanced mario sequencer program (the spiritual successor of mario paint composer) for more references.

As far as i know dpm affect dps and rhytm of your 3rd ability, so it would be too much thinking how to make it work with different dpm for DE.

[Xekrin]

3 minutes ago, Primbone said:

allow us to compose in different bpm, so not only limited to 120, but compose in faster or slower music

The limit here is on purpose and unlikely to change any time soon.  It was designed specifically to allow multiple octavias to remain in sync with one another.  Also her animations were designed for that same reason, too fast or too slow and it would be out of sync.

The rest, I don't know music, but I know its been suggested a couple hundred times (in a couple hundred different threads, and probably a few dozen times in the mega thread) already, so I feel comfortable saying they are aware of such desires from the community.

[minidelight]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Going to be bunt here, I think Octavia sucks.

Her gameplay that is, the music composing and hearing it in mission and all that is very cool don't get me wrong but it feels like all of the development went into that instead of making a fun frame.

#1 Mallet is straight up overpowered, and not even in the fun way imo. No, you throw it down and watch enemies shoot it till it pumps out so much damage that they die as soon as they step in range.

''But how is that boring'', well fellow forum user it's because it means you get the best out of the ability by not actually actively fighting the enemy yourself. The more enemies you kill yourself the less damage that gets pumped into it and the less damage it deals.

It also promotes bland stationary gameplay. You can only throw one, throwing another resets the damage output, it gets a significant buff from Amp which has a set area and throwing a Roller down directly reduces how much the mallet gets shot. So it literally works best as a deployable that you stand next to and do nothing more than refresh.

#2 Already covered, it reduces the effectiveness of Mallet, will quite happily roll out of Amp's buff radius I've noticed as well.

#3 Can't really understand what anyone was thinking whilst designing this ability.

The buffs are ridiculous to get, I get them more often that not by accident rather through actually trying. And if I am trying it's taking my attention off fighting... I'm playing Warframe, not Guitar Hero.

  Reveal hidden contents

Almost impossible to accurately shoot through the constantly moving bright every waves at anything below me. Which was most of the map. There's already a perfect alternative to this, give it the same sort of effect Equinox's 4th has where it's actually on the floor and walls and doesn't get in the way.

#4 Also invites stationary bland gameplay, buffing things is good, pushing you to stay in a single location for it's duration is bad.

Tl;DR You've been making strides to eliminate stationary/bland/easy gameplay, and yet you've just released Octavia which is the epitome of these 3 things.

I think I'll be sticking with Wukong. Whilst he's complete easy-mode at least he's fun to play and requires me to actually fight.

After fooling around with octavia+mallet i have to agree with everything in the post above.

OCtavia is press 1 to win cheese mode,   just drop mallet + 4, hide behind a pillar and go make some sandwichs or something and rape everything that comes in room, it destroys corpus...nullifiers everything lv 100+ , after the recent nerfs to ash press4towin, tonkor simulors...i dont understand how can DE release a cheese frame like octavia.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by minidelight

[Flustershy]

I'll just cut to the chase here.

 This is gonna be a longish post, you can just skip to the bottom for a summary if you don't care about the details.

Octavia is without a doubt maybe the most ''freedom giving'' frame in the game with the mandachord and stuff, she is also quite fun to play aswell.

But even though that Octavia is fun to play, her abilities work against each other are inconsistent and hurt the overall gameplay of Warframe, making her in a way one of the worst frames, ability wise.

[Octavias number 4 will be spared from this topic but we might talk about it later on in the future]

So first we'll talk about her number 1 Mallet.

Mallet itself is not a bad skill but it has a lot of problems.

1st being that it needs LoS [line of sight] and since mallet is on a lower then your average grineer or corpus unit mallet becomes really inconsistent unless used in wide open rooms with no elavation or items like boxes walls etc.

2nd being that mallet is supposed to ''beat nearby enemies and draw their fire''  another ''feature'' which is really inconsistent yet again. enemies ignore a mallet next to them a lot of times and keep shooting either another player or not shoot at all (we'll get to that in a moment) and after running a lot of different types of infested missions, mallet does not seem to even make the infested turn to look at it even if its placed in front of the pathway the infested are coming from.

Then we get to Resonator.

As much as i love roller mines like everyone else in the game, Resonator is one that i cannot love.

Resonator's damage increases when it charm's more enemies making the dps of Resonator inconsistent aswell if the enemies are spread around over a large area, the idea itself good but how its executed makes me want to not use the ability at all.

Just like Mallet resonator also needs LoS to deal damage , this wouldn't be a problem if the resonator would behave like a normal roller specter.

Resonator seeks out targets who are not charmed and goes to them and speeds up accordingly to stay ahead of the enemies chasing it, and this can lead the roller away from Octavia or the objective.

Resonator also hurts mallet aswell, since if you have an active mallet the resonator picks up the mallet and keeps carrying it until one of the 2 expires. problem here is that the enemies charmed by resonator stop shooting, and if the enemies don't shoot at the mallet leaving mallets damage output to be low and again INCONSISTENT.

And last but not least the sad excuse of a ''support'' ability Metronome.

 

Metronome is best described like Oberon is, ''trying to be good at many things, but really is not good at anything really''

Metronome is maybe the worst of Octavia's abilities as it functions fine but it hurts the game itself by how bad it really is.

Metronome rewards the player if the jump/crouch/melee hit/shoot at a correct part during the song. and the player can be rewarded with a speed boost, invisibility, melee damage, and multishot for their respective actions, metronome also gives 35% armor buff at all times if don't do the listed tasks.

And here is where the ability starts to go downhill. if you want any of the buffs you need to get it to 100%, depending at what time you hit the notes you either gain 8-42% or lose 8-42 % of the charge, making things harder is what kind of a song composition the player has on their melody, having a fast melody makes landing notes harder which rewards more% and you lose less % from mistakes, while as slow melody makes you gain less % when hitting correct notes and losing more % by missing them.

This makes it so that using Metronome for anything else than a ''ok'' armor boost, makes it so that you are playing a totally different minigame, which you simply don't have time to if you are on low level and a ember runs trough, or if its higher level and you're trying play OSU while lvl 90 bombard is shooting at you is not gonna end well.

Not to mention that if the duration runs out while you are trying to stack for the boosts all of your progress is lost.

And 99% other players don't even try to use Metronome for their ends, because A they don't know what kind of beat the new pub game met octavia has and how long will it last, so a lot of players just listen to the music if its worth listening to.

 

+ Not to mention if your octavia has garbage or annoying beats, its makes all the listed things 3x worse.

 

So for the Summary

+ Fun to play, nice and refreshing from the usual warframe stuff and has an ok ult for team DMG boost.

- DPS is inconsistent, can potentially be the most annoying frame in the game, and the remaining abilities work poorly or are just bad, multiple Octavias = not a good time.

 

 Thx for your time and effort in reading this.

And now i just wait for that guy who read 3 words from the topic assumes things and will be salty.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Flustershy

[_Rue_]

Mandachord

• Allow owner to set a song or several songs as "Active" songs
• Allow players to listen to and vote for active songs
• Allow Octavia to change song to voted song or the keep current song

Makes for more fun in long missions

[Bloomspark]

Yup I agree, currently her only ability that is reliable is Amp. Though I just want to point out that Metronome buff duration is unaffected by Metronome's remaining duration itself. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Bloomspark

[AdunSaveMe]

I like the game music. It's some of my favourite videogame music of all time. But thanks to Octavia, that's gone, unless I'm solo. Which is a shame, because it's really good. I wish I was being dramatic. I just can't have music turn up anymore.

Octavia drowns out EVERYTHING, and more often than not the music just sounds annoying. That's only if there's one of them, and not more than one, which means the songs conflict and sound even worse. God help you if someone fills all the notes on the mandachord.

Warframe-specific options aren't normal, but Octavia is a special case. Don't just turn her down. Give us a way to turn her off.

Edited March 28, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

and more often than not the music just sounds annoying

That's just like your opinion man.

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Warframe-specific options aren't normal, but Octavia is a special case. Don't just turn her down. Give us a way to turn her OFF, without turning music off as well.

No problems to that but i'd prefer a slider so we can mute it, silence it or even make it louder for those who actually like it.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

That's just like your opinion man.

I don't need to hear fifty renditions of Sandstorm done with a rock-style instrument set :T

And no matter how good your song is, it will be annoying, because it's four endlessly repeated bars.

Edited March 28, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[Flustershy]

22 minutes ago, Bloomspark said:

Yup I agree, currently her only ability that is reliable is Amp. Though I just want to point out that Metronome buff duration is unaffected by Metronome's remaining duration itself. 

edit'ed the post accordingly.

thx for feedback