[Update 20] Weapon Balance Pass Feedback Megathread

[[DE]Danielle]

Hey Tenno! 

Please use this thread to discuss and provide feedback on the recent weapon balance pass from Update 20: Octavia's Anthem. 

The following quote is from the original Dev Workshop thread that was posted prior to the update's launch: 

Quote

As we near the staggering number of 300 weapons (including variants), the task of balancing grows increasingly daunting. At its core, Warframe is a co-operative game; having powerful tools is a boon to a team rather than a disadvantage. However, there are a few weapons that have such a dominating effect in missions that co-operative missions essentially become solo. Aside from the handful of dominating weapons, there are even more that have been overlooked.

We have taken a look at our Arsenal and adjusted many weapons - mostly Primaries at this time. Everything below is subject to change - this is our current plan and gives you a general idea of what is coming!

Please expand the spoilers for specifics on what has changed:

Spoiler

 

We have buffed 10 underpowered weapons which have unique mechanics that have been overlooked due to their poor stats.

The Miter is one of the oldest examples of killer concept with lackluster results. The next Update will bring the following:

• Increased chance of dismemberment on kills.
• Increased speed of Projectiles.
• Charge time has been halved.
• Critical Chance of 5% for a quick shot.
• Critical Chance of 10% for a charged shot.
• Hit detection is now based on the size of the Sawblade.
• Mastery Rank increased to 6.

Harpak

The Harpak's stats aren't the worst in the scheme of Primaries, but it has received some love since it is often overlooked.

• Recoil has been reduced on the Primary Fire.
• The Alt-Fire Charge time has been removed - it is now an instant harpoon.
• The Critical Chance has been increased to 20%.
• Increased the range of the Alt-Fire from 15 meters to 40 meters.
• Increased the flight speed of the Alt-Fire and updated the FX.
• Adjusted pull strength of the Harpak’s alt fire to have enemies more likely to end up near you.

Hind 

The Hind has more nicknames than most Primaries (Baguette, etc), but not as much use.

• We've added a single-shot Semi-Auto Alt Fire to the Hind that has increased Damage, Critical, and Status Chance.  

Panthera

Like the Miter, the Panthera is a killer idea with lackluster execution. We've made the following changes:

• Primary Fire has been switched to Automatic, and the fire rate has been increased.
• The Status Chance of Primary Fire has been increased to 20%
• Critical Hit Chance of Primary Fire is now 10%
• The Critical Multiplier is now 2x.
• Ammo Requirement is reduced to 2.
• Secondary Fire Status chance is now 35%
• Critical hit Chance of Secondary is now 25%
• Hit detection is now based on the size of the projectile.
• Mastery Rank is now 7.

Paracyst

The Paracyst is one of the more spine-tingling weapons in the Arsenal that really runs with the Infested theme.

• The damage of the Primary Fire has been increased by 5.
• Updated the FX of the projectiles of the Primary Fire.
• Increased the range of the Alt-Fire tether to 50 m.
• The Status Chance of the Primary and Secondary Fire has been increased to 30%
• The Critical Chance of Primary Fire has been increased to 10%
• Mastery Rank is now 5.  

Mutalist Quanta

One of the more abstract Weapons that uses the Alt-Fire mechanic, the Mutalist Quanta has confused people since launch.

• The Mutalist Quanta is getting more of a mechanic change rather than just stats.
• It will have its Alt-Fire stack similar to the Simulor to make a large Infested Orb that you can shoot through for additional stats.  

Buzlok

The Buzlok and its homing mechanism has been used for many creative moments - but ultimately this weapon has been overlooked.

• The Ammo Requirement for the Secondary Homing has been reduced to 2.
• Physical Damage distribution has been adjusted to 50% Impact, 40% Puncture, and 10% Slash.
• Damage has been increased to 60 from 45.
• Critical Chance increased to 15%
• Critical Damage increased to 2.5x
• The flight speed of the Homing Beacon has been increased.
• The Homing Beacon will now only stick to NPC & Characters.
• Critical Chance increased by 50% on targets with Homing Beacon attached to them.
• Clip size reduced to 50.
• Mastery Rank increased to 9.  

Glaxion

The Ice Beam weapon: the Glaxion. Probably one of the most exciting weapons to imagine in combat, yet it has received a cold reception.

• Cold Damage has increased to 333 from 250.
• The rate at which ammo is consumed has been decreased.
• Increased the Accuracy of the Glaxion.
• Reduced the range from 30 meters to 24 meters.

Ogris

The Ogris has gone through a visual Upgrade, and now it's time for a stat upgrade. To many, this was their first entry into Launcher weapons - are you willing to give it another look?

• The Flight Speed of the projectile has been increased.
• The Status Chance has been increased to 35%.
• The charge time to fire the Ogirs has been reduced.
• The direct Impact damage of the projectile has been decreased to 100.
• AoE damage has increased to 600.
• AoE range has increased to 6 meters.
• Mastery Rank requirement has increased to 8.  

Attica

The Attica was the debut entry into Automatic Primary Crossbows! We've revisited it to perhaps bring it back into the spotlight of your Arsenal.

• The Weapon Recoil has been reduced.
• The Fire Rate has been increased.
• The Flight Speed of the bolts has increased.
• The Critical Chance has increased to 25%.
• The Critical Multiplier has increased to 2x.
• The Ammo Capacity has increased to 20.  

We have nerfed 3 weapons (plus 1 variant)  that we feel disrupts the co-op setting and pace of gameplay for most groups: 

Tonkor

• The Tonkor's rocket jumping mechanic has long been obsolete since the introduction of bullet jumping, so the Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.
• The Tonkor Grenade trajectory line now appears on holding the fire button (Default Left Mouse), and grenade fires on release.
• The grenade needs to travel 6m before arming itself, it will bounce off yourself, other players and AI before then.
• The Maximum lifespan of grenade has dropped from 5 to 3 seconds - grenades are quicker to explode
• Grenades bounce lower and explode sooner, making them more likely to explode where they are shot.
• The Critical Chance has been reduced to 25%.
• The Accuracy of the Tonkor has been increased.  

Simulor

The Simulor's entry into Arsenals marked one of the more unique moments in Weapon history. It's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

• The Status Chance has been increased to 30%.
• The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 3.
• A Critical Chance of 2% has been added.
• The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-6 meters.
• The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 per orb to 75 (225 at full stack).
• On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-6 from 3-8
• On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from 150-250 to 20-40
• The Simulor has had its max Ammo Capacity reduced to 60.  

Synoid Simulor:

Considering the Simulor was the only Primary Cephalon weapon, it was easy to see a Synoid version entering Arsenals. Like its vanilla counterpart, it's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

• The Status Chance increased to 35%
• The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 4.
• A Critical Chance of 5% has been added.
• The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-8 meters.
• The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 per orb to 75 (300 at full stack).
• On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-8 from 3-8
• On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from 150-250 to 20-50
• The Synoid Simulor has had its max Ammo Capacity reduced to 75.

Telos Boltace:

• The only melee entry on the list is the Telos Boltace.
• This weapon is receiving a bit more of a mechanic change rather than a purely numerical change.
• The Slide attack will create a vortex that staggers and draws enemies toward you.
• The following Slide attack (after a vortex) will radial blast and ragdoll enemies away from you.
• This 'back and forth' will be on a cooldown.  

 

Please note that we will be closely monitoring your practical feedback - feel free to share videos and start discussions after sufficiently playing with the affected weapons. Non-constructive feedback, dev-bashing, and any other content that violates the Guidelines will be removed.

If you have any bugs to report please post them here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/776647-update-20-bug-report-megathread/

 

[Hammahness808]

Loving the Attica rebalance. The sound, recoil, speed, and new damage :)

[Flirk2]

All bows got a nerf out of hell. How nice.

Attica got a buff but Zhuge got a nerf.

Telos Boltace are not worth using anymore.

''Balance'' well done, I guess.

[Chewarette]

Simulor seems nice. Maybe better than before as we can control its damages now.

Telos Boltace... Is now a Mastery Fodder. Could we imagine having some kind of indication regarding its internal Cooldown ? The new effect is nice but it appears the cooldown is something like 30 seconds so yeah, nobody will ever want to bother using it now.

[BansheePrime]

The Attica kinda just left the Zhuge in the dust...

[Kalvorax]

1 minute ago, Flirk2 said:

All bows got a nerf out of hell. How nice.

Attica got a buff but Zhuge got a nerf.

Telos Boltace are not worth using anymore.

''Balance'' well done, I guess.

i dont see anything about bows getting nerfed

 

[Flirk2]

1 minute ago, Kalvorax said:

i dont see anything about bows getting nerfed

 

Get in-game. See for yourself

20% crit chance on a Dread.

Nuff said.

Edit. hotfixed Dread

now 50% again

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Flirk2

[armedpoop]

The Tonkor is in a really bad spot right now. I cant even survive the blast with a full 5k extra hp halo on Nezha. Did launchers always do the max amount of damage as self damage?

[iwoply]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

All bows got a nerf out of hell. How nice.

that was a ui bug that was fixed in the latest hotfix

 

[Kalvorax]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

Get in-game. See for yourself

20% crit chance on a Dread.

Nuff said.

graphical UI issues...they already said that in the hotfix

[RAZORLIGHT]

Tonkor nerf isnt as bad as many people think, now it is in line with all other explosive weapons = pretty much useless in a laggy and crowded environment.

BUT

you made Maiming Strike pretty much worthless now :/

Synoid Simulor is meh as well

all in all i got 3 formas from you but i used 8 in total + 3 catalysts for those 3 nerfed weapons

Edited March 24, 2017 by RAZORLIGHT

[Jorak_Falconstar]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

Get in-game. See for yourself

20% crit chance on a Dread.

Nuff said.

That's a display glitch. from the 20.0.1 notes:

Fixes

• Fixed the Dread stat UI in the Arsenal unintentionally displaying reduced Crit Chance and Multiplier (back to original values now). Please note this affects almost all projectile based weapons and is solely a UI bug. We are fixing the rest shortly! 

[Insane-Mana]

This is a message to DE, if players who read this agree just say so. To the haters out there dont bother with a reply cause we already know you cry's for nerfs and that you are happy.

On topic

Tellos Boltace is now 100% useless

1. No damage
2. No range
3. The cooldown is waaaaaaaaaaaaay to high

Even if the range was the same and there was no cooldown, what use is a weapon like that if it does no damage.

You could have just made the range smaller, or made it so that in order to get the old mechanic only to work when channeling with a high cost. These also would have been nerfs but would not render the weapon completely useless.

I hope you guys can be real about this and revert the changes you have made

Also i am upset because i've spend allot of time getting this weapon, spend allot of time and plat getting the mods for this weapon. Forgive me for saying this but you might aswell have deleted it.

[Flirk2]

3 minutes ago, Jorak_Falconstar said:

That's a display glitch. from the 20.0.1 notes:

Fixes

• Fixed the Dread stat UI in the Arsenal unintentionally displaying reduced Crit Chance and Multiplier (back to original values now). Please note this affects almost all projectile based weapons and is solely a UI bug. We are fixing the rest shortly! 

How about other bows then?

or

Edited March 24, 2017 by Flirk2

[AncientMercury]

You can always use the atterax with maiming stirke. It deals decent damage with red crit all over your screen

[Wyrmius_Prime]

You're one of those average Joe noobs who think damage is everything.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Has anyone tested the panthera yet?

Did they fix the punch thru?

Please test for me as I'm on console and I'm feending for the feedback on that weapon! 

[AerinSol]

My Ogris is now hit-scan with my Riven.

Harpak is OP with Riven.

Miter is now THE burger gun with 300% multishot. (multishot makes the blades look like a Big Mac™)

;-;

Why no better love for Paracyst?!

Edited March 24, 2017 by AerinSol
MickeyDEEEE

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, Flirk2 said:

How about other bows then?

Holy Lotus batman!! Are all bows 50% crit chance now?

[Common_fruit]

Penta's Tether grenades mod now apply self damage.

 

[Flirk2]

Just now, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Holy Lotus batman!! Are all bows 50% crit chance now?

Yes. When you put Point strike on them.

Only Dread has 50% base crit chance

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

Yes. When you put Point strike on them.

Only Dread has 50% base crit chance

Oh, gotcha 

[Rakawan]

1 hour ago, Insane-Mana said:

This is a message to DE, if players who read this agree just say so. To the haters out there dont bother with a reply cause we already know you cry's for nerfs and that you are happy.

On topic

Tellos Boltace is now 100% useless

1. No damage
2. No range
3. The cooldown is waaaaaaaaaaaaay to high

Even if the range was the same and there was no cooldown, what use is a weapon like that if it does no damage.

You could have just made the range smaller, or made it so that in order to get the old mechanic only to work when channeling with a high cost. These also would have been nerfs but would not render the weapon completely useless.

I hope you guys can be real about this and revert the changes you have made

Also i am upset because i've spend allot of time getting this weapon, spend allot of time and plat getting the mods for this weapon. Forgive me for saying this but you might aswell have deleted it.

Weapon still does damage if you use it properly.

They just removed the ability to spam spin attacks for ridiculous bleed damage.

While it was an interesting effect it was far too easily abused, especially with the bleed damage proc mod.

[Omnipower]

2 minutes ago, Common_fruit said:

Penta's Tether grenades mod now apply self damage.

 

thats a good thing as many nerf herders would like to say i mean if tonkor couldnt be an exception why should penta?

[AerinSol]

Just a question on Reporting posts about the Weapon balance. If I type in the report, "merge to megathread" good enough? Or will I need to be more specific? Like, "Merge to weapon balance megathread". So I can know what to copy/paste.