[Update 20] Weapon Balance Pass Feedback Megathread

[Ennolf]

The way that build you talked about of how it works would be that because you didn't focus on bleed damage but rather all of the combo counts it could stack up... You would allow your close combat attacks to deal massively increased damage which was only focusing on those who are under 5 meters away from you stabbing them with the Telos Boltace when you are not spinning.

[Mak_Gohae]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We have nerfed 3 weapons (plus 1 variant)  that we feel disrupts the co-op setting and pace of gameplay for most groups: 

really? Disrupts the co-op setting. Pretty sure these are not the only weapons that do this and there are several frames that do this. 

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Tonkor

• The Tonkor's rocket jumping mechanic has long been obsolete since the introduction of bullet jumping, so the Tonkor now deals self-damage like all other launchers.
• The Tonkor Grenade trajectory line now appears on holding the fire button (Default Left Mouse), and grenade fires on release.
• The grenade needs to travel 6m before arming itself, it will bounce off yourself, other players and AI before then.
• The Maximum lifespan of grenade has dropped from 5 to 3 seconds - grenades are quicker to explode
• Grenades bounce lower and explode sooner, making them more likely to explode where they are shot.
• The Critical Chance has been reduced to 25%.
• The Accuracy of the Tonkor has been increased.  

You know what you should do with weapons? Put them in a vault system like primes. 

Why do i say this?

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Glaxion

The Ice Beam weapon: the Glaxion. Probably one of the most exciting weapons to imagine in combat, yet it has received a cold reception.

• Cold Damage has increased to 333 from 250.
• The rate at which ammo is consumed has been decreased.
• Increased the Accuracy of the Glaxion.
• Reduced the range from 30 meters to 24 meters.

 

the reason people dont use the Glaxion is because you killed the accuracy of a beam weapons which affected all these things you are buffing now. 

If you wouldn't have killed the accuracy back when you did you wouldn't need to do this now. 

So if there is a weapon you think it's being used too much then vault it and release it later when people have stopped complaining because it's the latest thing to complain about. 

 

Keep an eye on the AOE of the Tonkor cause im sure a bunch of people are going to die because they end up walking into the explosion. Actually, i shouldn't have said that because it's likely that you will ends up nerfing that. 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Self-damage to Tonkor was too much. The crit nerfs were very much needed. Tonkor's original niche was all about that rocket/grenade jumping and now if you try to do that you'll just end up committing suicide.

[OhThatsDaddy]

Telos Boltace 'change' (more like a nerf lol) is complete garbage, please revert this change, the new mechanic just feels so clunky and slow and is practically useless CC weapon. 

[Perserve]

what exactly happened to the mutalist quanta changes? also where's the vortex for the simulator primaries?

[Blood_Poppy]

I don't Know if this is Big Bug or not. 

Bug I Found : 1. I Found that Spectre sometimes doesn't respawn when using them..
                       2. Viral + Radiation caused Syniod Simulor orb stack without Damage

                      3. Synoid Simulor give 0 Yellow/Red Critical Damage. and It doesn't Create the Vortex when stacked.

 

and Can you boost Stack Damage a bit. from 500 ~ 1000 Damage range to 1000 ~ 2000 Damage range when fully modded, with current Stats I barely kill lvl 100 Mobs. It far worse than Pea Shooter/Amprex. -_-

Lastly, can you remove the Delay/Cooldown on Telos Boltace Spinning attack, It annoying and I sometimes Stuck in Awkward positions.

This is not Minor Nerf, The Nerf are TOO HARSH for a PVE game..

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Blood_Poppy

[Xekrin]

2 hours ago, Tetravaal said:

I just sold the telos boltace after this update, thanks for making syndicates not worthy anymore. atleast in my opinion.

Well enjoy your credits, it isn't worthless now, it is still quite powerful and useful.  If you had taken the time to learn the new mechanic you'd see that. That's my opinion.

[NullusvultLatine]

Please remove the cooldown from the Telos Boltace spin attack.

[kusaku]

I feel some of the secondary weapons could do with a buff, Magnus and Vasto prime to name just a couple.

Are you looking at doing secondary weapons?

Edited March 25, 2017 by kusaku

[Syvarin]

Since the Telos Boltace got such a harsh nerf, would it be possible to return it to performing its special attack regardless of whether or not it's the currently equipped weapon?

The initial change requiring it to be active meant instead of spin attacking now and then, players using it would do nothing but spin attack the entire mission. It can no longer be used in this way. Returning it to taking effect on any spin attack might at least entice a few players to continue using it.

It was far too powerful and did need a change. The current state of it seems a bit of an overcorrection, though.

[MrJxt]

Why does Panthera's primary fire consume more than 1 ammo per shot anyways?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Im happy about all of this, especially Ogris! 

[MewmewGirl]

Synoid Simular got too big of a nerf.  It no longer feels unique, and actually is nearly useless now (it's no longer a unique orb builder it's only practical use now is shoot and detonate to which we have many better weapons to use in that category, so why would I ever use it now?).  I get that it could have used a tweak and that too many people were using it because it was one of the best weapons in the game, but you guys went way too far with the nerf, you overkilled it.  For the Synoid version's difficulty in building up to get, this is way too harsh of a nerf.  If you really are going to keep it like this, you should replace it's spot in the Cephalon Suda Syndicate with a weapon that would still be worth using.

 

I'm trying to keep my emotions out of it but I don't understand how you guys could go *this far* with the nerf and think it was a good idea.  There could have been other ways to tweak it and still keep it unique too instead of destroying the uniqueness and making it a slow to build up detonator (I know we could always detonate, the point being that building up the orbs is pretty much useless now for anything but detonation).

 

With how cool the weapon used to be, I'm totally surprised that you guys thought this big of a change to it was a good thing to do.  It's making me feel your decision making may  not be what it should be and that's making me nervous about many things to do with the game.

 

*Edit - To reiterate I'm most disappointed that the weapon lost it's very unique feel, more so than losing it's power.  It was one of the most unique weapons in the game and now it feels like a horrible slow to build up DPS detonator.

Edited March 25, 2017 by MewmewGirl

[Elannor]

Is it just for me or does Simulor and it`s Synoid not work properly anymore? The particles dont combine to create the small wormhole, they just float there together. 

From what I read, this wasnt in the weapon change, is this intentional??

[-Valhalla-]

6 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Synoid Simulor:

Considering the Simulor was the only Primary Cephalon weapon, it was easy to see a Synoid version entering Arsenals. Like its vanilla counterpart, it's always been a little weird - stacking orbs together leads to both passive and active death. The stacking itself causes damage and the fully stacked orb can be activated with your 'Alt Fire' button for an additional explosion.

• The Status Chance increased to 35%
• The amount of Orbs required to make a full stack has decreased - it used to take 5, now it takes 4.
• A Critical Chance of 5% has been added.
• The AoE Explosion range (based on stack when expires or manual detonation) increased from 0.5-2.8 meters to 1-8 meters.
• The Explosion Damage has increased from 50 per orb to 75 (300 at full stack).
• On an orb stacking event (when orbs combine), damage range decreased to 1-8 from 3-8
• On an orb stacking event, damage decreased from 150-250 to 20-50
• The Synoid Simulor has had its max Ammo Capacity reduced to 75.

The orb stacking explosion isn't hapening. They get together and manual explosion detonates them individually it seems. Did i miss it on any hotfix?
If i did, im sorry

[Ventose]

Miter, Ogris, Tonkor.... they finally make sense. I love you DE, I love you with all my heart.

Miter's speed and crit  

Ogris' speed and blast radius  

Tonkor's accuracy and no more annoying bounce effect  

one request though: could the Tonkor's trajectory line be a continuous line, or by any other way be more visually emphasized? now that it hits what it's aimed at, it'd be nice to actually see what I'm aiming at 

edit: P.S.: whoever came up with the letters, deserves a hug. loved the one from Darvo: 'Clem fixed your tonkor...'

Edited March 25, 2017 by Ventose

[BalaDeSilver]

6 hours ago, Insane-Mana said:

Tellos Boltace is now 100% useless

1. No damage
2. No range
3. The cooldown is waaaaaaaaaaaaay to high

It's bugged with Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, and it is really OP send the whole map flying around :v

[nelu_Y3K]

Sad thing is these buffs just seem decent.

I'm guessing their using minor buffs and the new frame to trying to somewhat nullify the outrage from the massive nerfs to the tonkor and simulor, so they don't loose to many players.

Also a forma for each nerfed weapon what a freaking joke. I got 6 forma on tonkor, 5 on simulot plus catalysts and weapon slots. How about some FULL refunds.

 

In the end if the tonkor and simulor nerfs are permanent I will quit warframe.

[BalaDeSilver]

You said it would have 3 stacks... ;-;

RIP Simulor's Vortex, we'll miss u ;-;

Spoiler

 

 

[Shirazawa]

    I'm just confused.

    I came back to the game around two months ago and decided to test the new syndicate melee weapons. Telos Boltace was by far the most fun because I could clear my daily quota of syndicate missions (6) with most talismans. It still took around one and a half hours because of my loading times, but it was a good amount of time spent on a game daily.

   Now, I see why the change was necessary (I saw one screenshot and it burned my eyes) and with the right build the radial damage could clear an entire 20m radius circle. It's still a really great weapon; two timed spins clear most of a wave and it can be used every 5 seconds.

   But (correct me if I'm wrong), why do the new vortex and radial blast do a minimal amount of damage to enemies (~100 with my maxed pressure point + 400% elemental damage) but not to containers?

   From what I've seen people were complaining about: a) The radial blast's visual effect being painful to watch; b) People using the damage to clear waves of enemies while making repetitive slide attack sounds because of macro spamming.

   So why did you add more room clearing/trolling capabilities to the weapon (mob juggling) and remove the container breaking effect? Should I be having fun smashing crates?

(PS: Is Ignis really that good at breaking containers? I might need one.)

[Pyrocious]

Yeah ignis is once again the go-to for crate breaking. Hold the trigger and sweep the room. Concealed explosives is also pretty good  but you have to watch for self damage.

[Skywolf1954]

I usually just take what is Nerfed  and move on but what was done to the simulor should be criminal! Press fire hit target no damage, hit secondary fire blow up bubble minimal damage. My 5 forma weapon, TRASH.  Balanced? How about almost useless. High lvl survival mission? Impossible. I understand new weapons mean new cash stream to keep game going but come on, leave a  few weapons alone it's not like they are rare or hard to get. Put damage radius back at least this is not a sniper rifle its an area of affect weapon.

[Xekrin]

6 minutes ago, Skywolf1954 said:

Press fire hit target no damage, hit secondary fire blow up bubble minimal damage. My 5 forma weapon, TRASH.  Balanced? How about almost useless.

Well yeah, if you're going to just use it like you used to it will feel like garbage.  Here's a thought, just random off the top of my head.  Try adjusting to the new stats and mechanic changes.

Aside from the fact that its actually broken right now because the orbs do not merge anymore, try shooting 2 or 3 before blowing them up.  I easily fended off hordes of grineer in the mobile defense sortie solo today with the simulor.

The entire concept and purpose of the weapon's mechanics is to merge the orbs together (again, that part is busted atm) and use the subsequent explosion to do damage.

Single shot orbs are perfect for CC (insta proc electric) and its status is incredibly high.  Not to mention 5 or more orbs together increase its critical chance so much that it red crits a wide area.

Yeah, not trash.  Try again.

[lcs.]

2 hours ago, Ventose said:

Miter, Ogris, Tonkor.... they finally make sense. I love you DE, I love you with all my heart.

Miter's speed and crit  

Ogris' speed and blast radius  

Tonkor's accuracy and no more annoying bounce effect  

one request though: could the Tonkor's trajectory line be a continuous line, or by any other way be more visually emphasized? now that it hits what it's aimed at, it'd be nice to actually see what I'm aiming at 

 

 

Still have no crit for miter \_/

[Skywolf1954]

9 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Aside from the fact that its actually broken right now because the orbs do not merge anymore, try shooting 2 or 3 before blowing them up.  I easily fended off hordes of grineer in the mobile defense sortie solo today with the simulor.

The entire concept and purpose of the weapon's mechanics is to merge the orbs together (again, that part is busted atm) and use the subsequent explosion to do damage.

Single shot orbs are perfect for CC (insta proc electric) and its status is incredibly high.  Not to mention 5 or more orbs together increase its critical chance so much that it red crits a wide area.

Yeah, not trash.  Try again.

I've used the simulor for over 2 years, I know about bubble stacking. Like you said they broke it, bubbles Don't stack. Red crits? Wasn't getting any. Stacking bubbles did no damage when stacking, only when exploded. YOU MAY HAVE HAD A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE, I was stating my experience today.