[Update 20] Weapon Balance Pass Feedback Megathread

[Ichiitos]

Ok my english is bad , but lets try .

DE can you please remove Hitkill Tonkor , Thanks

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Ichiitos

[Xekrin]

12 minutes ago, Skywolf1954 said:

Like you said they broke it, bubbles Don't stack.

Not broke as in "oh no its nerfed" broken, actually broken as in bugged, ie it will get fixed.  They will stack again when they fix it next week.

13 minutes ago, Skywolf1954 said:

Red crits? Wasn't getting any.

You weren't trying very hard.  And this is with the broken non stacking orbs or bubbles, whatever.  I imagine it will be much easier after its fixed.

Was using gas build btw on a heavy gunner in sortie with elemental enhancements so yeah the damage is rather low for that.

Anyway yea, had a difference experience.

[ROSING]

Meanwhile, going unnoticed on the side, the Hind was one of the changes I was most excited for, but two things:

• Make the alt fire like the stradavar so you don't awkwardly spam your alt-fire button to shoot and instead just use it to switch between burst fire and semi-auto
• Tweak the sound because it feels incredibly underwhelming that a shot with twice the crit chance and damage sounds like a dainty cough

I used the Harpak as well, it's performing magnificently so good job on that. Looking forward to taking the Buzlok out of the oven. Thanks for the changes.

[Kjahla81]

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

Not broke as in "oh no its nerfed" broken, actually broken as in bugged, ie it will get fixed.  They will stack again when they fix it next week.

You weren't trying very hard.  And this is with the broken non stacking orbs or bubbles, whatever.  I imagine it will be much easier after its fixed.

Was using gas build btw on a heavy gunner in sortie with elemental enhancements so yeah the damage is rather low for that.

Anyway yea, had a difference experience.

That's rather interesting.  I'm assuming you went with status as well? 

[freeformline]

I have not yet had time to extensively test how the changes to the Telos Boltace affect its combat usability, but I am already quite sorry to see the radial damage go, as it made syndicate medallion hunting quite a pleasant endeavor. I understand that the weapon was being used in unhealthy ways, but I really would have liked to have seen its unique usefulness in crate-breaking preserved.

[Xgomme]

 

I failed and put my feedbacks here, dunno if you can merge but here's the link. Some new feedbacks

[randomepicroffletroll]

11 hours ago, RAZORLIGHT said:

Tonkor nerf isnt as bad as many people think, now it is in line with all other explosive weapons = pretty much useless in a laggy and crowded environment.

BUT

you made Maiming Strike pretty much worthless now :/

Synoid Simulor is meh as well

all in all i got 3 formas from you but i used 8 in total + 3 catalysts for those 3 nerfed weapons

 

i used 6 forma's on my tonkor, 3 on my telos boltace. and now i can throw them away. sad life. got 2 forma's back

[Tamino1701]

Synoid Simulor got less compensation from the nerf than regular Simulor, despite what the patch notes says, Synoid simulor always used 4 particles to form the bigger one, it wasn't 5, so, it didn't get any compensation on that regard compared to regular Simulor (down to 3 from 5), the original patchnotes, where Synoid Simulor also got the 3 were the right choise, the one live is just too much nerf.

Tonkor feels clunky to use now, I don't mind the crit damage, but the self damage, combined with the bullet not exploding until 6m makes it too clunky to use

also, kinda sad, because Simulor and Tonkor are my only 2 builded effective weapon, and now I'm left with 2 way less powerfull versions of those guns, Synoid Simulor seems to still be strong, but compensating it to 3 instead of 4 will surely be better, Tonkor I don't feel like using anymore

[Eldirian]

Hi @[DE]Danielle
I hope this gets to you all at DE. Current Tonkor mechanics are broken. Why you ask?

1. 6m bounce mechanic:
   1. Do we have a meter indicator somewhere? No. So when shooting an enemy I'm hoping that I'm far enough to hit and it's okay for most of the Grineer, Corpus and Orokin but what about Infested, melee enemies and beasts? They run towards you actively killing me in the process.
   2. The same thing goes for eximus bubbles. I need to enter a bubble to shot enemy in the face but guess what? Eximus is closer than 6 meters and I'm killed.
   3. Same goes for players who "accidentally" run pass me and the grenade bounces of right to my death.
   4. Penta has detonation, Zarr and Ogris on impact and Tonkor has what? Bouncing in the hopes of hitting an enemy?
2. Self-damage is too high. I'm running with a quite good Rhino (not prime) with armour and power strength mods that do not allow enemies above 100+ lvl to one shot me but my grenades give me an insta-kill.
3. Hold LMB to aim - wait, what?! Why? Have you heard of aiming using RMB? This weapons has two bullets that take some time to reload and yet your "Hold LMB to aim" mechanic made the process of shooting even longer. Please revert.
4. Rocket jump. With Parkour 2.0 you said the rocket jump is obsolete. Is it though? I had a blast (pun intended) propelling myself up in the air to:
   1. Escape from enemies.
   2. Jump longer, higher.
5. Crit chance nerf. From 35% to 25% is a bit harsh, don't you think, DE? Tonkor relies on crit chance and crit dmg, and yet you almost took 1/3 of the crit chance. Do you know why someone put 35% crit chance there? Because when a grenade detonates the explosion gives whole body trauma and in many cases effectively killing.
6. Higher accuracy. Do we need it? Tonkor uses Heavy Caliber, no one is expecting high accuracy from it. We don't need that.

This is all I have for Tonkor after initial tests. Below I put a video showing how M79 Thumper or Tonkor in the Grineer language works (see it explodes on impact):

Pls rethink your position on Tonkor and it's mechanics. Currently you took all the fun from that weapon.

@[DE]Danielle

I added two things to the list that now can kill me:

1. Closing doors - oh look, enemies in the other room, at safe distance! And then door closed, grenade bounced of to my death.
2. Leapers - oh look, infested at safe distance, will shot them all! Leaper be like: "I am in the serious need of jumping!" - Leaps towards while my grenades flies over there, grenades bounces of right back at me. Classic. Please DE, change it.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Eldirian
Forgot about accuracy change.

[Scar.Heart]

12 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

• Critical Chance of 5% for a quick shot.
• Critical Chance of 10% for a charged shot.

Pathetic crit chances.

To add, Miter is not making any crits in-game, and the stats still read "--" for crit chance/multiplier.

This was a lazy attempt (and failure) at a buff.

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Increased speed of Projectiles.

If anybody uses Miter in Conclave, this buff is likely welcomed.

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hit detection is now based on the size of the Sawblade.

A necessary fix that has been waiting for a very long time.

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Charge time has been halved

Thank you.

____

Overall, the buffs were sub-par.

The only things really worth noting are the hitbox fix and the charge time reduction.

The addition of the pathetic Critical Chance is not an appearance I welcome. To add, they (once again) forgot to mention the Critical Multiplier. On top of that, the game's Miter stats do not reflect this, and the Miter itself still cannot crit (or, perhaps, the crit chance is just that abysmal).

 

 

EDIT:

This thread:

Is also showing that Miter is consistently failing to Punch Through enemies.

Edited March 25, 2017 by MagnusFury

[lcs.]

8 minutes ago, MagnusFury said:

Pathetic crit chances.

To add, Miter is not making any crits in-game, and the stats still read "--" for crit chance/multiplier.

This was a lazy attempt (and failure) at a buff.

 

If anybody uses Miter in Conclave, this buff is likely welcomed.

 

A necessary fix that has been waiting for a very long time.

 

Thank you.

____

Overall, the buffs were sub-par.

The only things really worth noting are the hitbox fix and the charge time reduction.

The addition of the pathetic Critical Chance is not an appearance I welcome. To add, they (once again) forgot to mention the Critical Multiplier. On top of that, the game's Miter stats do not reflect this, and the Miter itself still cannot crit (or, perhaps, the crit chance is just that abysmal).

 

And they didnt mention the crit multiplier for miter but they did that for Panthera

[sulusdacor]

first off i must say not sure if it even makes sense to post feedback,since obviously from 40 pages in a balance comming notification thread and people saying they like the nerfes without using the weapons much and without bringing up any arguments why they support that and people giving feedback why they were/are bad, giving argument/examples - the whole take away is that they basicly get implemented anyway ....

...so yeah...

hope dies the last so they said. so here we go.

 

did a few synoid simulor runs. i brought it in the dex event weapon mission, well it still kills lv12 enemys. now equipped mirage and got into a t3 fissure mission (around lv30 enemies). so the alt fire still kills stuff, which is okay and the primary still kill stuff. the problem is the whole mechanic feels super clunky to use. i have to shot then see if the enemy is killed, check if he is in range of the orb explosion. if i can checkbox these then use the altfire button to detonate. that said it still does not kill lv30 heavy armored units like napalms.

the whole mechanic to get damage compared to the result you get does not fit. it is quite complex compared to other insta fire weapons and you do not get more damage out, but less. using the altfire as a primary damage source does not feel satisfining to use.(it is alternative so please please keep it an alternative not a "must use to get any damage out of a weapon") it is not fun. it feels still super vision imparing for me and the rest of the squad. i can still aoe clear lower level content.

so if i take all these things together i get a weapon that i have to put a lot of effort in compared to other options i have. i still have the old problems and do not get more out of it (if that would be the case i could somehow see the sense in these changes). the thing is you do not get more out of the weapon. add to that the really really unsatisfing "use alternative fire" if you wanne do damage mechanic it breaks the weapon overall. it not fun, it does not enhance coop play.

so how to fix? first of change the visuals of the weapon. tune down on the light/vision impairment overkill. like everything in this game does crazy lightning stuff. this weapontype especially. so tune it down a lot of notches. in terms of damage either reduce the time it takes orbs to explode by alot,so you do not have to manually explode every thing to do damage, so you could just wait 1-2secounds and it would do. increase the primary damage by a bit. when i can not kill 30 armored units with a syndiacte weapon there is clearly something wrong here...

telos boltace points runs, my frustration high^^ on the runs i did it felt like having a normal tonfa weapon, that is clunky to use and not my cup of tea like all other tonfas. the "vortex" is barely visible compraed to the normal slide if you run a mission. there are other effect in the game, you concentrate on other things. i barely noticed it. the cooldown kills the useablily of it. to crack crates you still can in theory do this, but have to wait for the cd? so it is basiclly not worth it. yes the vision thing was a problem before, since you could spam it. now you can not spam it, which means you actually need to see, when it is used. so the "fix" kills this new mechanic by a lot. you need to see when it is up/useable or not. the other thing is you need to go into melee mode to use it in the first place, why? with the cooldown you would have to be in this all the time and the weapon itself is nothing you want to use normaly as pure melee. so it would be okay if i could shot, then notice the crates beside me or enemy and just slide attack to use the mechanic. in the time i have to invest to enter melee mode i have either used my current weapon to elimite the enemys or just used my long range melee weapon (which is not telos boltace) once by pressing my closecombat button once while in firing mode with y weapon and have the same result. so yeah.. this new mechanic kills the weapon, since it is barely visibly, the utility of it is not worth the effort/restriction you need to take in consideration to use it.

moving on to the tonkor. my personal famring tool. first mission after the update i tested the synoid,since it still was equipped. did a few runs before to get a feel for before7after. i did a fissure mission, think it was t3. not super high level, people should do fine. someone died. well i thought surely he must level a frame and not have vitaility equipped, these new players, i thought to myself. moving further through the mission he keeps dieing. well time to press esc and check, since it gets a bit annying to res him every minute. hm mr18, max rank frame, oh tonkor.. well mystery solved. this kept happening a bunch of times during the mission. it did not enhance my coop experience, i did not have more fun. he did not blow himself up on purpose (kept an eye on him for "research purposes" XD). so this might be fun the first mission this happens to you and you need to res this players who obviously not knew what they are doing,since they keep dieing all the time. but it will get annyoing all the time. got into my farming mission myself and used the tonkor-...well not a fan.

first off the firing mechanic. the hold+release to fire is super strange. if i press fire i want it to fire. why was this changed? it feels super clunky to use. it did not get used to it after a while, it keeps feeling wrong. instead it just resulted in my using my secoundary as my primary fire alter on, since this was confusing/annyoing the hell out of me. the other thing is the 6m detonation. i'm pretty sure the explosin radius is more then 6 meters and if you shoot to close you die. even with more then 6 meters. the other thing is i have had multiple times fire, watched the explosion go off. then move foreward to pick up stuff, go further into the mission and still die, even after the explosion had already gone off. so yeah... the other thing is these things can still bounce around like crazy, enemys can run in your pathc, etc. strange things can happen and you simply die. not liking the self damage part or the firing mechanism. i know why i stay away from self damage weapons, since so much can go wrong.,

on the note of selfdamge here. my party kept resing me, could be since i was the vauban and there cc frame in an excavation. but suffice to say i was sure they had a ton of fun, since no one talked to me in squad chat. so i definilty know for sure that the me dieing randomly enhance their gaming experience by a large part. even the nidus link abilty could not prevent this fun interaction ;)

on the serious note the risk of you dieing in a mission i a super high trade off. it seems okay in lower level content, but later on teammates do not have the luxery to res you each time, so you just die. you simply die in a bad spot, the enemys need to be cleared first, no one is near you etc. a bunch of stuff can happen. so the trade off you get for that risk should be nuke the whole map or auto finish my mission. since i can basilcy randomly lose if this happens enough of times. since the selfdamage weapons do not auto complete my missions for me and do not clear the map of enemies the result is simply not there to take the risk. yes one use them and then use other weapons if you hit the last resurection, but then the question is why not just use another weapon in the first place to prevent the first deaths. the risk/reward ration on these weapons is simply not there. i insta die. i can carefully plan my shots, take into account all movements, but i can still die a bunch of times. there is no counter play to this. the reward you get from the weapon is not high enough. combined with the clunky firing mechanic most launchers have, long reload etc. they are not satisfinig to use at the end.

as for the damage nerf on the tonkor. i can still clear groups on 50+ enemys,, if i crit. otherwise the damage feels very very lackluster. if have to sacrifice multiple modslots to get a more or less reliable crit chance on the few shots i have anyway. the 25% crit nref seems really over the top. it is a grenade launcher. i can do the same damage with other aoe clear weapons and to invets mods to hopefully crit. these things combined with random deaths, clunky firing mechanic make the weapon unsatisfiing to use. it does not nuke things for the big trade off i get in return. in the end the message is, use your secoundary weapon...

just tested a bit the attiaca. the firerate and crit seems super good. the sound feels good. it feels on paar with the zhuge, which is worth to use/forma. so i think this change was definilty needed and make the weapon not only fun, but rewarding to use. the firering does not feel like a drag and you get decent damage out. so i definitly like this change a lot and brings a bit of variat to the crossbows.

overall i'm not sure what to think of these balance changes. i have not tested enough to get a picture for the rest of the weapons that got buffs. but the "mechanical changes / tweaks" seem like it puts the weapons touched in a cryosleep. no one will touch these if they are not in love with them or have otherwise invested in them and no other option (focuslenses). not sure whats up with the trend to make every thing "more complex to use". since all three weapons got the "jump through x hoops" to get a decent result threatment. more is less guys. if the weapon is to strong, just fix the numbers. kinda thought some knowledge had come out of the sicarus prime tweak. it does not take much to make the community happy. you do not have to split vakuum in three mods. you do not have to reinvent the wheel. just tune some numbers. fix some visual and you get great results to start out with. do that see what it does. you can implement new complex mechanical changes that take a lot of work still later.

so yeah on that note.. not sure if the feedback makes even sense.well...

keep on having hoep tenno and fight on ;)

thx for reading

[MacThane]

TL:DR --- Read the underlined parts.

Just for reference before I get flamed, some of my favorite weapons in the game are the Penta series which are very self-lethal and I spent a huge amount of time practicing with them to become proficient with them. Nonetheless, even being as confident as I am with a Penta as my main weapon I won't usually bring it to any challenging mission, since a single mistake can lead to a party wipe. In that vein, bringing the tonkor up to "parity" is not an approach that adds to the game, but rather detracts from what makes that weapon unique. Essentially it is now a crippled Zarr: requires a direct hit to detonate, but suffers the same projectile limitations, has an even smaller magazine and no method for dealing with enemies at close range, not to mention the natural limitations that come with being a crit-based weapon, such as inconsistency, higher modding requirements and so on.

For the new version of Tonkor, making a single mistake, having an ally walk right in front as you fire, or failing to see a bouncing grenade land next to you --which isn't difficult in the visually busy environments that Warframe is prone to-- leads you to instantly 1-shot yourself. Penta has a detonation mechanic, Zarr has alt-fire and these work for the player who wants to take the risk vs skill reward trade-off, but for Tonkor there is nothing except the prevention of self damage; which has now been removed. The explosive weapons are already chosen very rarely due to self-wiping being so frustrating, please don't do this to yet another weapon that would otherwise be fun to play. Shrink the explosive radius and buff Firestorm to make it actually important, implement negative damage scaling further from the explosion or make it harsher, nerf the damage some, heck, even shrink the clip size to 1, which I'm assuming was the original intent for the weapon anyway since ammo consumption on multishot was proposed around the same time. Do whatever you need to do, but self-killing weapons are immensely tough to choose over safer alternatives already. I don't deny for a moment that Tonkor was overpowered for damage, but this game is already so chronically damage obsessed, why take away the utility that made the Tonkor special?

As for the Simulor series, it also had it's damage cut severely, but still fires at a semi-fixed range and deals arguably the least effective damage type in the game. Ok, sure it melts shields, but shields are absolutely the easiest HP type to deal with already. The proc isn't significant in the only non-pvp context where it applies and doesn't have any effect at all on the other 70% of enemies in the game, not to mention magnetic damage itself is resisted heavily by several critically important enemy types, particularly Infested Ancients. I absolutely appreciate that it is a weapon with a very low skill-threshold, so giving it top-tier dps, insane crowd control and effectively unlimited ammo at the same time isn't sensible, but what about giving it a unique place in the loadout meta rather than just nerfing it down to the bedrock? Perhaps it would be fun to do something more significant with the detonation alt-fire and make the orb-stacking effective as a "pseudo-charge-up attack" to make it more viable, like increased radius / status chance / armor piercing / whatever.

Rant over. Please nobody think I'm just a rage-gamer, I'm really not. We needed a reduction in the power of these weapons to be sure, but 70% is beyond extreme and surely we should be embracing the utility factors that make each weapon unique, rather than making them all the same as weapons which rarely get picked already.

Edited March 25, 2017 by MacThane

[Christopher76116]

This is a message specifically dedicated to DE.

The reworks on some weapons are great. But I simply can't understand the changes on some of them.

The Tonkor is now unusable, because every time I shoot a grenade I almost kill myself. And I'm not even talking about the drop on crit chances.
The new mechanics on Synoid Simulor make it useless too. The Mirage + Synoid Simulor combination isn't valuable anymore.

It took me 9 formas and hours of farming on those 2 weapons alone, and now I don't even see a point in keeping them in my arsenal...
And all you give as payback is 2 formas and 3 days of affinity booster ? What the hell ?!

I personnally think that you made some big mistakes on those nerfs...

[OH_GOD_NOTTHISGUY]

DE be like

Lets make a new weapon and see how the players respond

Players be like 

WHOA..! THIS WEAPON IS so nice, I'm gonna put lenses on it  and forma the S#&$ out of it 

DE- lets nerf it 

[Gwenwed]

With the Attica buffs, how does it compare to the Zhuge? I would like to invest in a crossbow but now I have a hard time to chose. The Zhuge has great status for an automatic weapon...

Thanks all!

[Danjal777]

The Panthera:

This used to be a running joke in my clan, we would forma this thing until we could get it function as a normal weapon, it was easily the worst weapon in the game and considering the fact that the Miter was better than it was added insult to the injury.  But in the sake of being a player with everything and needing to make up reasons to play Warframe, we would see how ridiculous we could get with it.  Then this update came...the Panthera is...good...I was shredding things for 6000 damage per second, the infested had no chance.  Color me impressed.

The Telos Boltace:

I know many of you are angry, but you know that this weapon was being exploited, people were setting up slide attack macros so that they could kill everything in a level without effort or fun.  For other players it was boring and seizure inducingly annoying.  If you need a weapon like this to play warframe, I think you could use a break, because it was being used as a lawnmower, no longer a game, but a chore that had to be done.  When you are in a situation like this either go play something else for a while, of shelf it and grab a karak.  Find that fun in the game.

The Simulors:  It was a long time coming, and if you dumped your money into these, than you have gotten your money's worth!  I remember when the exploit with Mirage was littel known, and I used it to farm oxium like it was going out of style.  But this weapon was being exploited and was ugly on screen and in the headphones, so the changes are welcome for me.

[Fallen_Echo]

8 minutes ago, Danjal777 said:

The Panthera:

This used to be a running joke in my clan, we would forma this thing until we could get it function as a normal weapon, it was easily the worst weapon in the game and considering the fact that the Miter was better than it was added insult to the injury.  But in the sake of being a player with everything and needing to make up reasons to play Warframe, we would see how ridiculous we could get with it.  Then this update came...the Panthera is...good...I was shredding things for 6000 damage per second, the infested had no chance.  Color me impressed.

The Telos Boltace:

I know many of you are angry, but you know that this weapon was being exploited, people were setting up slide attack macros so that they could kill everything in a level without effort or fun.  For other players it was boring and seizure inducingly annoying.  If you need a weapon like this to play warframe, I think you could use a break, because it was being used as a lawnmower, no longer a game, but a chore that had to be done.  When you are in a situation like this either go play something else for a while, of shelf it and grab a karak.  Find that fun in the game.

The Simulors:  It was a long time coming, and if you dumped your money into these, than you have gotten your money's worth!  I remember when the exploit with Mirage was littel known, and I used it to farm oxium like it was going out of style.  But this weapon was being exploited and was ugly on screen and in the headphones, so the changes are welcome for me.

The boltace: the macros still exist but now people going to add them to other slide2win weapons or even upgrade it ro perform combos faster. All they had to do is to decrease damage, reduce/remove the slash proc and do something with the effects, not give it a new useless mechanic.

The simulor: From what i read its bugged currently as orbs dont merge, now most users will spam and detonate it rapidly instead of spam and forget which is even worse visually.

[fibrizz0]

Tonkor:

I tried the Tonkor after the update and I got this impressions:

- I died a couple of times to self damage trying to establish the safe range of the weapon, which is expected, but I found self damage easy to dealt with, so no complain (careful with a Frost spawning the globe just in front of you, it happens xD)

- Didn't like the change to the grenade trajectory. Was better before (right button) and it seems to me the real trajectory deviates a loot from the line displayed, more than before.

- Liked the grenades exploding quicker, a lot, because most of times they pass by the feets of the mobs and don't explode, so it kinda compensate that.

- I suppose is a accurqcy thing, but now you can't even distinghish the trajectory of the two different grenades if multishot.

- For me Tonkor was the "Crit Launcher", not the "Safe Launcher", so I found the nerf in crit my less favorite thing. For the sake of identity, I even prefer less damage and the same crit as before, or at least not so nerfed.

Overall, still very usable to me, specially if the trajectory/aim system is revisited.

Edit: Lack of info about ranges makes things much harder to deal with.

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by fibrizz0

[Fallen_Echo]

I tried out the new simulor mechanics and i got to tell you DE managed to make it worse.

Now instead of floating vortexes, you will see run and gun mirages continously shaking the screen with bright explosions.

I have gone to akkad and the two "best" players (most damage and kills) was me and an ember with simulor.

[ganjou234]

AMAZING work on the Telos Boltor. It's a good thing we won't get to see stuff like this (see video below) happen. That shi* seriously made things dull....

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by ganjou234

[Riot_Inducer]

Just going to drop my feedback on the weapons I've got that were changed.

Buzlok: I'm loving it's new capabilities. The faster tracer really helps with consistently landing the tracer shots, and the lower cost means its now more of a standard part of the guns usage instead of something saved for priority targets. And finally the crit and damage buffs make a really mean weapon especially when you're using the tracer mechanics.

Glaxion: Holy crap it actually shoots straight now! The extra damage is nice, however it does still seem to chug ammo at an alarming rate. The reduction in range hurts a bit, but honestly I'll take it if it means I don't have to try to adjust my aim to wrangle the beam into target.

Harpak: Great quality of life tweaks, the lower recoil is very nice as is the crit buff. Finally the improvements to the alt-fire make dragging enemies a viable strategy as it's much easier to grab them now. 

Ogris: Sweet baby rngsus this thing is amazing, at least when combined with nightwatch napalm. Everything that doesn't die outright gets a face full of status and the napalm ensures they're constantly cc-ed and taking damage from the fire procs. All in all this is my favorite of the changes so I've tried so far.

Synoid Symulor: After reviewing the changes I'm pretty sure it's broken. I do like the idea of it becoming a status spreading machine, but right now it seems really bugged. The orbs don't seem to be combining despite being pulled towards each other and as such a vortex never forms. Additionally when the orbs pop they seem to cause red crits, but they aren't doing the damage a red crit should do. I'm interested to see what this one will be like when it's working as intended.

Tonkor: All in all I really like these changes. It's now in line with other explosive weapons with the self damage, and the crit nerf isn't so bad at all, it's still a grenade launcher with excellent crit stats, just pushes it back out of red-crit territory. I must say I actually like the feel of it a lot more now. The high accuracy and managable bounce make it much easier to bounce the grenades around corners and over cover to exactly where you want, which is honestly what I always wanted from the Tonkor int he first place. I always hated its super-ball levels of bounce before. And finally the 3 second fuse is much nicer however I still would've preferred a 2 second one myself.

As for other weapons, I'm now interested in trying the miter and panthera. However I'm a bit miffed at the attica changes, I sold my forma-ed attica less than a month ago because I got a zhuge bp from a login and had to face the fact that it was superior to the attica in almost every way. Glad the attica got some love, just remorseful that I didn't stick with it a little bit longer.

[ganjou234]

6 hours ago, Eldirian said:

Hi @[DE]Danielle
I hope this gets to the you all at DE. Current Tonkor mechanics are broken. Why you ask?

1. 6m bounce mechanic:
   1. Do we have a meter indicator somewhere? No. So when shooting an enemy I'm hoping that I'm far enough to hit and it's okay for most of the Grineer, Corpus and Orokin but what about Infested, melee enemies and beasts? They run towards you actively killing me in the process.
   2. The same thing goes for eximus bubbles. I need to enter a bubble to shot enemy in the face but guess what? Eximus is closer than 6 meters and I'm killed.
   3. Same goes for players who "accidentally" run pass me and the grenade bounces of right to my death.
   4. Penta has detonation, Zarr and Ogris on impact and Tonkor has what? Bouncing in the hopes of hitting an enemy?
2. Self-damage is too high. I'm running with a quite good Rhino (not prime) with armour and power strength mods that do not allow enemies above 100+ lvl to one shot me but my grenades give me an insta-kill.
3. Hold LMB to aim - wait, what?! Why? Have you heard of aiming using RMB? This weapons has two bullets that take some time to reload and yet your "Hold LMB to aim" mechanic made the process of shooting even longer. Please revert.
4. Rocket jump. With Parkour 2.0 you said the rocket jump is obsolete. Is it though? I had a blast (pun intended) propelling myself up in the air to:
   1. Escape from enemies.
   2. Jump longer, higher.
5. Crit chance nerf. From 35% to 25% is a bit harsh, don't you think, DE? Tonkor relies on crit chance and crit dmg, and yet you almost took 1/3 of the crit chance. Do you know why someone put 35% crit chance there? Because when a grenade detonates the explosion gives whole body trauma and in many cases effectively killing.
6. Higher accuracy. Do we need it? Tonkor uses Heavy Caliber, no one is expecting high accuracy from it. We don't need that.

This is all I have for Tonkor after initial tests. Below I put a video showing how M79 Thumper or Tonkor in the Grineer language works (see it explodes on impact):

Pls rethink your position on Tonkor and it's mechanics. Currently you took all the fun from that weapon.

I added two things to the list that now can kill me:

1. Closing doors - oh look, enemies in the other room, at safe distance! And then door closed, grenade bounced of to my death.
2. Leapers - oh look, infested at safe distance, will shot them all! Leaper be like: "I am in the serious need of jumping!" - Leaps towards while my grenades flies over there, grenades bounces of right back at me. Classic. Please DE, change it.

Just position yourself better and use the bounce. I love how it forces players to actually think before they shoot. I agree with the crit chance, it should be 30% imho. 

@[DE]Danielle Keep the self damage mechanic, it's amazing, but I'd suggest nerfing the damage to players.....at least leave the player with a quarter HP.

 

Use the bloody bounce people.

[Danjal777]

2 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The boltace: the macros still exist but now people going to add them to other slide2win weapons or even upgrade it ro perform combos faster. All they had to do is to decrease damage, reduce/remove the slash proc and do something with the effects, not give it a new useless mechanic.

The simulor: From what i read its bugged currently as orbs dont merge, now most users will spam and detonate it rapidly instead of spam and forget which is even worse visually.

Then they can expect more nerfs.

[RAZORLIGHT]

tested the simulor a bit more

your attempt to remove/delete the problem failed

instead of the usual point and click you now have to do point + click + click instead

we just have the same room deleting firework as before but without tons of vortexes