What Warframe used to not be missing

[Xaero]

On 28.03.2017 at 3:01 AM, Blink.Ensu said:

You seriously have no idea how screwed the relic system is compared to keys? You clearly dont understand how limiting it is in just terms of plain unadulterated math what the RNG changes are with the relics. You want to spent 20k standing a pop and blow it on a fraction of a chance of getting the relics you need? Even with 4 max factions at 120k each that is 6 per ... lets say you need a specific AXI relic that gives you 24 chances (a layer of RNG that wasnt there before) at just getting the relic. You used to be able to collect hundreds of keys that guaranteed tower access. Then the chances of the relics dropping what you need is another layer of RNG, one which actually existed before. I dont trust the upgrading of relics with void traces btw the numbers dont support the upgrade system being worthwhile. It's similar to snake oil salesmen selling cold medicine promising you a shorter cold or a potion that brings puberty on earlier. There's no facts but they gather your money all the same.

There isnt even a semblance of an opinion in that. It's straight up math. Primes used to be done the day of by those prepared. You want proof you can understand? Watch the prices for prime sets. You used to see a drop within a week sometimes even days. Now prime prices remain over inflated for 6 weeks after a prime gets released. I used to farm an entire prime pack on day one or two and move on to forma (on the rare occasion when I didnt just buy the max prime access). Then I would farm extra and do clan giveaways for those that couldnt join me for the key burns.

With endless mission keys I could get more than 1 part for a single key if we got lucky. 0 chance of that with relics.

 

Again, you have proved you dont understand a thing and just want to defend blindly without a single fact to back up your claim. You even offer anecdotal evidence refuting my facts with things that actually prove my point. Meta is in your head. There's always another meta around the corner. Cheapening the void to the point of worthless and installing the relic system are harmful. Again I have clear and justified mathematic proof of all of this. My experience leading a community of hundreds of players in Chaos Vanguard first as Dues Ex Tempus then in our own standalone clan and now as Verucas Illusion my staff and I have seen recruitment and membership drop off precipitously over the past year. /shrug ignore my fact based observations all you want. I'll just move on to a different game.

What you don't seem to understand is that theory and practice are different things. I started playing Feb 2014, during Ember Prime access, and I've been honestly trying to farm every prime item since then. And every time I had to trade for, if not whole items, at least parts of those items just because rng was too tough. And I got tired enough from grinding the same tileset over and over again, be it camping or free running. Guess what? Relic system fixed this. Now it's possible for me to get the whole access in just one day which never happened before.

[blackheartstar_pc]

2 hours ago, Ksaero said:

What you don't seem to understand is that theory and practice are different things. I started playing Feb 2014, during Ember Prime access, and I've been honestly trying to farm every prime item since then. And every time I had to trade for, if not whole items, at least parts of those items just because rng was too tough. And I got tired enough from grinding the same tileset over and over again, be it camping or free running. Guess what? Relic system fixed this. Now it's possible for me to get the whole access in just one day which never happened before.

Bull. I started August of 2015 and have farmed every Prime frame and weapon up to Saryn Prime Access twice. Once on PS4 and once on PC. Where on PC with Saryn Prime I started buying all of the Prime Access as they came out. All that farmed with the old system. Well except for a vaulted item or 2. Mag and her weapons are the only ones I can think of being farmed Relic only.

I do not mind the Relic system since they re introduced endless but to say that the old systems rng was to hard and the new systems rng is better is a joke. All of the grinding rng elements in this game is too lenient and easy to fulfill.

Edited March 29, 2017 by blackheartstar_pc

[Blink.Ensu]

Regardless of your personal experiences and preferences. There IS an added layer of RNG with the relic system and in the process of adding that layer the things that made the void special were destroyed.

 

Those are point blank facts.

 

Warframe is now a weeaboo focused cash cow where it used to be a respectfully Asian culture oriented F2P. Octavia et al are not fecking ninjas of the same (ex)calibur as previous frames. The focus has shifted. It has become obvious to anyone that can put down the whitenoise of fanboyism, step back and look at the issues I've pointed out. No matter what your anecdotal evidence is to the contrary. I have factual proofs in addition to personal experience and the downsizing of my clans/alliance to show for it.

Focusing on balance while churning out frames/weapons and changing the underlying principles of what makes the void special will not replace new mission types, tilesets and dev participation.

 

In case you can't tell by my post count ... I dont come on here often. My words are weighted accordingly. Read between the lines. I have loved Warframe since I started playing it and have built multiple communities around the game. I am sorry to see those die but so be it. Moving on.

[Tykune]

I'll have to agree with Blink.Ensu. This game has fallen to some new lows when they released Octavia, and even more so when some things don't even make sense by design.

 

Rhino is a heavily armored Warframe with the strength and fortitude of his reckless, stampeding namesake. Rhino trades speed for power and is designed to fill the tank role in a cell, with the capability to charge into the fray, draw enemy fire, and bend the battlefield to his will through sheer brute force.

Armor: 190

Valkyr is a berserker-themed Warframe. Driven by feral rage, her attacks rend her prey with fury and ferociousness, while her tortured cries break the imposing silence of the Tenno presence.

Armor: 600

[Troll_Logic]

Load your message with "cute" little videos and I skip all of it because you obviously aren't serious. 

[Gamma745]

2 hours ago, Blink.Ensu said:

Warframe is now a weeaboo focused cash cow where it used to be a respectfully Asian culture oriented F2P. Octavia et al are not fecking ninjas of the same (ex)calibur as previous frames.

If by "Weaboo focused", you mean far more centered toward Anime's convention than real life ninja, it has been like that since DAY 1. Take a look at the way our Warframe sit on navigation, the way we have been able to go One-man army towards dozens of dozens enemies, our weapons (the starter sword, the Skana? yeah, tell me that's the normal way people in real-life make a sword). The way ninjas in real-life works are to blend in with the crowd, not the so-called ninjutsu or shadow-blending. They disguise as civilians, workers, or whatever they could to get where they need.

Octavia not the same ninja as previous frames? Why? Because it has a dancing and music theme? I think you're far too late saying that, since there are: Mirage, a jester-themed frame. Nova, a Nuclear-themed frame. Banshee, a screaming spirit. Volt, an Electric master. Titania, a floating fairy. Zephyr, a wind and bird-themed frame. Nekros, a necromancer. Inaros, a mummy. The list goes on. What I'm saying is, Octavia was not the first non-conventional design. In my opinion, Ash is the only conventional ninja design, and even then that only follows Anime convention.

[(PSN)Double991]

There is a brutal truth in Blinks posts but people have grown too blind to see it. Most attempts to make something better have included sneaking in a way to make it or something else worse. You feel content but you know it's bittersweet.

[Marine027]

12 hours ago, Blink.Ensu said:

Regardless of your personal experiences and preferences. There IS an added layer of RNG with the relic system and in the process of adding that layer the things that made the void special were destroyed.

I am all in for making places more special but please not only Void, i got tired of the same tileset over and over again, i rather have variety then the old system.

Other planets should have also unique things in them and not just the precious gloryfied void. Relic system is not perfect but its far better relyable then spending hours in the same tileset hopeing every 20 minutes the one part drops you desire onyl to end up with worthless junk of Orokin cells or parts no one wants.

With relics we have atleast more choice of what we get, in the end farming relics is more work since each part is one relic but better then running one Void Key and maybe end up with 4 drops with 3 beeing mods or cells.

And don't come me with chlannge in the Void, you still ahve oyur challange there if oyu want famr keys and do fissures as break in between, i perosnaly found endless missions boring and not challanging, you know what is challagning? Actual mechanics and knowing your way around maps, Spy or Rescue as example, how many people i see die becasue they want to use the frontdoor.

[Hayabusa97]

12 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Load your message with "cute" little videos and I skip all of it because you obviously aren't serious. 

As someone who spent a few months (or so) in the guy's TS3 and Discord servers, I can assure you he is quite serious.

Also, choosing not to read something just because of some videos is a pretty banal reason IMO

Edited April 13, 2017 by Hayabusa97

[taiiat]

you're thinking of Tactical Alerts, and they have never been on a regular weekly, bi weekly, Et Cetera schedule.
the delta between them.....

1.5 months, 5 weeks, 3 weeks, 1 week, 1 week, 1.5 weeks, 1 month, 1 month, 1 month.... you get the idea.
and why are they not around so much anymore? well.... because they turned into Sorties. which are there every day. and we still get Tactical Alerts from time to time even! for the more outlandish things. because most of the Tactical Alerts we got, were things Sorties now do automatically.

 

the overall gist i seem to get, is you're saying that Warframes' problem is that it isn't exactly the same game you played a year ago or two years ago?
hmm.... that's a pretty nonsense complaint.

[Blink.Ensu]

Tac alerts and other happenings/events were irregular yes but here you are trying to boil my entire point down to semantics. I didnt say Tactical alerts only. I said events. Tac alerts included but not limited to. I wasnt the only one who depended on them. Many of the youtubers did too, in order to have fresh content. The entire player base were able to participate on a frequent basis with the warframe event brainchild of the devs in some way shape or form. Now we get procedurally generated S#&$e and you claim there is no diff?

 

As for the game changing, of course it changes. Hopefully for the better. In this case though, not so much. Let me make a case here. A lot of people use windows on thier PC ... Win 7 was good. Win 8 was horribad. Win 10 came to the rescue. Why?

In a word. Consistency.

You cant take a ninja game with a lot a creativity involved in futurizing it and then take the joke of, 'fashion being the endgame', and embrace it to the extent that that the game ends up being bout as ninja as cotton candy is a steak dinner.

The differences are clear. The inconsistency is obvious. Cherry picking my argument and observations wont fix the fundamental issue. My clans are dead. My TS is empty and I cant even argue against it as no new weapon or item or frame can entice me back. The game needs repair for consistency and CONTENT. Mission types/tiles and a return of what made the towers special.

[JalakBali]

On 4/13/2017 at 10:52 AM, Blink.Ensu said:

Warframe is now a weeaboo focused cash cow where it used to be a respectfully Asian culture oriented F2P.

Hate to break it to you but it's been weeaboo since day 1. There was just less tongue-in-cheek less serious stuff back then just by sheer volume compared to now. Some players are complaining now because the added contents actually expanded the lore and added details that didn't fit their head-canon.

 

Also, your post is contradictory. You claimed it's getting more weeaboo focused while also pointing out the latest warframe is not very ninja-like. Which part of Octavia is weeaboo? Weeaboo stereotypes being in marching bands and dancing in clubs is new to me.

[Blink.Ensu]

weeaboo to ninja is cotton candy to steak dinner.

 

It isnt about Japanese its about the content. Warframe was already Asian oriented but that isnt necessarily weeaboo. Fluff isnt what ninjas are made of. Octavia is fluff. Octavia wants to be a ninja. Octavia is weeaboo.

 

Not that difficult a concept.

 

Just to be clear. I am not against a sound based Warframe or a non ninja idea (Banshee,Mesa,Nova etc. etc.) There are creative diversionary game aspects that are appreciated but a marching band though? Takes it a bit too far. That's just like my opinion man ... and is the least of my concerns as described in this thread.

 

I mentioned lore in passing and nothing as far as what's in my head. What has been done to the void and towers in the game mechanics doesnt fit the lore they have out! That is my complaint. Not my imaginary internal story. The void should be special and hard to get to like it used to be. Going there should be rewarding like no where else. Right now all it is used for is Argon crystals and as a prop in Nef Anyo's scams. We were created there! The lore gives it importance the game doesn't.

 

The lore hasnt kept pace with the gameplay. What's the lore reason for relics over keys? There's evidence of 5 corpus guilds available for story use. There are factions and sub factions within the game itself both empowered and not, already graphically evident and even storyline evident that havent been expanded on. A large part of the draw to Warframe is mystery though so answering all the lore questions would be bad too but you can use some of these mysteries to explain what/how/why without detrimental effects. For instance:

Corpus proxy wars to collect void relics draw the attention of tower sentience which results in the opening of void fissures around the solar system in an attempt to draw in these relics. Lotus has found a way to both gather these relics from their collectors and use the fissures to open them resulting in void traces which can be used to attune you to certain outcomes. Alternatively, a relic can be used in conjunction with a tower key in order to open a relic by usage of the surrounding void energies. This does not result in traces and therefore does not allow attunement but can allow a tenno to gather primes at twice the rate.

 

Instead of a lore oriented explanation we just get a new system that is devoid of any logical justification within the game itself. Nuking the void and the towers and the keys from orbit while adding layers of RNG without that explanation or a means of replacing that gameplay characteristic was a mistake. It breaks both immersion and continuity which are vital for all games that spans across updates.

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Blink.Ensu

[taiiat]

17 hours ago, Blink.Ensu said:

Tac alerts and other happenings/events were irregular yes but here you are trying to boil my entire point down to semantics. I didnt say Tactical alerts only. I said events. Tac alerts included but not limited to.

Now we get procedurally generated and you claim there is no diff?

your description of what you were looking for was directly talking about Tactical Alerts - so that's what you're looking for.
if there's other things you're looking for, you didn't say that.

you want slightly changed Missions from time to time... and... most of the Tactical Alerts were this, and then turned into Sorties because slightly changed Missions can be made by a robot much faster. :v
so yes, there isn't a whole lot of difference between what you're saying you want from the game, and what we have available that mutated out of past systems.

[Iccotak]

I think the overall problem is that DE puts up alot of half finished concepts and then doesn't touch them for a year or more.
This may be because their attention and resources are diverted to making more toys for the players to use. 
I would like to see them focus on Older content that needs to be updated / finished. 
Like we are seeing with the Earth Update

[Hayabusa97]

13 hours ago, Iccotak said:

I think the overall problem is that DE puts up alot of half finished concepts and then doesn't touch them for a year or more.
This may be because their attention and resources are diverted to making more toys for the players to use. 
I would like to see them focus on Older content that needs to be updated / finished. 
Like we are seeing with the Earth Update

Another problem is trying to condense too much content in one update (which people can go through rather quickly) instead of separating all of that into a bunch of smaller (but still fairly large) updates which will keep a steady stream of content that even though people will go through each piece quickly, the wait for new stuff won't be as long compared to cramming a bunch of S#&$ into a big update and spending the next month or so doing hotfixes and small updates to introduce the next round of Tennogen, a new Warframe, a couple new weapons, maybe a prime access, and some other small things. 

Then again, I can imagine that going that route would end up being pretty exhausting but what do I know, I've only been playing since December 2015.

[Iccotak]

DE is kind of in a corner, they have to create monetized short term content to keep receiving funding and at the same time work on long term content, BUT the community demands more short term content and doesn't look at the bigger picture

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 4/12/2017 at 10:52 PM, Blink.Ensu said:

Warframe is now a weeaboo focused cash cow where it used to be a respectfully Asian culture oriented F2P.

It hasnt "respectfully" focused on asian culture since ember/banshee/nova.

 

Banshee isnt even asian origin and nova is a mathematical energy application.

Ember is so anime it hurts and excalibur and ash (not really) were the closets things to subtle.

 

Its been weaboo friend sorry you couldnt see that.

Edited April 23, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[Iccotak]

On 4/22/2017 at 6:26 AM, JalakBali said:

Hate to break it to you but it's been weeaboo since day 1. There was just less tongue-in-cheek less serious stuff back then just by sheer volume compared to now. Some players are complaining now because the added contents actually expanded the lore and added details that didn't fit their head-canon.

 

Also, your post is contradictory. You claimed it's getting more weeaboo focused while also pointing out the latest warframe is not very ninja-like. Which part of Octavia is weeaboo? Weeaboo stereotypes being in marching bands and dancing in clubs is new to me.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

It hasnt "respectfully" focused on asian culture since ember/banshee/nova.

 

Banshee isnt even asian origin and nova is a mathematical energy application.

Ember is so anime it hurts and excalibur and ash (not really) were the closets things to subtle.

 

Its been weaboo friend sorry you couldnt see that.

DE acknowledges that Warframe pulls from iconic anime (such as Evangelion and Ghost in the Shell) as well as concepts foreign to the western video game industry.
BUT they also have their own ideas. 
I think it is a nice change of scenery, art style, and story compared to many popular video games that we have.

[WARLOCKE]

The amount of "easy mode" (sorry, not trying to be a jerk but I cant think of another word for it) players warframe attracts has always shocked me. The community has been split for ages about this. Between those that want a challenge and those who want to face roll. Both styles can be accomidated through a difficulty selector with vastly increased payouts for higher difficulty levels. Balance changes can also be applied to the modes of play. So the spamulor players can still enjoy doing what they do, and the rest of us wont have to deal with it:P. 

All of this aside, I do agree but for different reasons. We can agree about bringing events back. Miss those.

Edited April 23, 2017 by WARLOCKE

[Volinus7]

3 hours ago, Iccotak said:

DE is kind of in a corner, they have to create monetized short term content to keep receiving funding and at the same time work on long term content, BUT the community demands more short term content and doesn't look at the bigger picture

If DE was a standalone company like two years ago, I wouldn't disagree.

They sold themselves to be injected into China they have enough money to burn through the whole new game if they want. Funding is not the problem anymore. 

Monetization in wf is based on Skinner's box, community's demands are shaped and conditioned by DE. Says why don't they let wallet warriors buy nitains by plats directly? The norm of buying more slots is encouraged more than selling old items to gain free slots because there's no maximum slot limit? Etc...

I don't fully disagree with your statement either because quite a number of players is easily dragged by pavlov conditioning. 

Here take my upvote for "big picture" that no one really dares to touch to make it better...

Edited April 23, 2017 by Volinus7

[gallowsCalibrator]

You're totally right. Warframe is still the game I loved back when I first started, the fast-paced third person shooter with space ninjas cutting down scores of inferior enemies, but it's lost some of the "magic" it once had in the early days.

In my opinion, Warframe was always at its best when we were involved in its creation, and I don't mean through the Design Council. I mean those events where we Tenno helped direct the course of the game's lore, its history. Remember when we found new settlements on Phobos? Remember when we beat up Alad V's forces and made him lose funding from the Corpus board, eventually leading to his corruption by the Infested? Remember when we shut down Vay Hek's Fomorians, only to have him come after our relays when he built bigger, better ones? Remember when Darvo showed up and tricked us into getting the stalker (and his dad) off his tail so he could sell stuff to us for cheap?

Events like that, along with the more frequent mini-events, made the game world feel alive. Things were happening, and we had a hand in how they played out. Even when big events weren't playing out, we still had pretty frequent smaller ones that were different enough to keep things interesting. I feel like the Sortie system was meant to replace these smaller events, but they feel mechanical and are really not interesting to run once you've done a few of them and figured out the various modifiers.

[JalakBali]

On 4/24/2017 at 6:11 AM, gallowsCalibrator said:

You're totally right. Warframe is still the game I loved back when I first started, the fast-paced third person shooter with space ninjas cutting down scores of inferior enemies, but it's lost some of the "magic" it once had in the early days.

In my opinion, Warframe was always at its best when we were involved in its creation, and I don't mean through the Design Council. I mean those events where we Tenno helped direct the course of the game's lore, its history. Remember when we found new settlements on Phobos? Remember when we beat up Alad V's forces and made him lose funding from the Corpus board, eventually leading to his corruption by the Infested? Remember when we shut down Vay Hek's Fomorians, only to have him come after our relays when he built bigger, better ones? Remember when Darvo showed up and tricked us into getting the stalker (and his dad) off his tail so he could sell stuff to us for cheap?

Events like that, along with the more frequent mini-events, made the game world feel alive. Things were happening, and we had a hand in how they played out. Even when big events weren't playing out, we still had pretty frequent smaller ones that were different enough to keep things interesting. I feel like the Sortie system was meant to replace these smaller events, but they feel mechanical and are really not interesting to run once you've done a few of them and figured out the various modifiers.

Sure, we remember those. But can a new player play the game now and figure out what the heck is going on with Alad V?

 

Events are nice. The problem is it's not inclusive to new players. They're a note in history that affects the star map but no way to re-live them. So maybe they're trying to figure this out before adding more events that altered the map but provide very little information to new players. They even hired a game writer. Hopefully they'd continue events and it would lead to a permanent quest for new players to play and catch up on the lore.