Why there are so many weapons better at crit than snipers?

[AlkaiserX]

DE Snipers Balance Pack is coming!

- Nerf all weapons crit stat, but Snipers!

- Buff Snipers crit on 1%

Well Done!

[RacerDelux]

Short of making snipers one hit on headshots (minus bosses) - it seems it could be hard to make sniper really worth it. A nice start would be to make them hit MUCH harder though.

[Elyann]

On 26/3/2017 at 7:14 AM, ashrah said:

sniper really need big changes... they should be highest  hitting dmg wepons.. zoom lvl reduction with option x2.x4   that why u see what happening around u...crit chance..also i was notice very wierd sniper accuracy..  vectis prime sometimes miss perfectly aimed headshots..

Are you using heavy caliber by any chance ?
Cause it now affects your accuracy even while aiming ( I know it may sound obvious but there's lots of misleading posts on warframe-builder saying it doesn't).
Ran some tests in the simulacrum by shooting at the various pillars from different distances and saw how terrible my vectis' accuracy became after quite a short distance, hence why I replaced heavy cal with other mods.
Otherwise I can only think of lag / desync problems...but the vectis p accuracy is pretty good on its own.

[Elyann]

I agree though, snipers need to be reworked but so do many other weapons....and perhaps the enemies system itself needs a rework ;
snipers as well as bows simply aren't that good against hordes and hordes of enemies , they simply aren't as fast as a fully automatic rifle that even by dealing less damage x shot simply clears the whole battlefield due to its firing rate ( and almost no aim requirements ) .
I understand that they are meant to take down VIPs but...let's admit it....there's just so many other ways to take down high level bombards or gunners that now these weapon types can not serve their purpouse well....not to talk about the fact that warframe isn't centered around taking down small packs of enemies as I already said...but pretty large ones, they always keep spawning and coming, their damage has no falloff and the game doesn't have many open space maps where you can just find a cover and hitscan your targets.
 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Elyann

[ashrah]

1 hour ago, Elyann said:

Are you using heavy caliber by any chance ?
Cause it now affects your accuracy even while aiming ( I know it may sound obvious but there's lots of misleading posts on warframe-builder saying it doesn't).
Ran some tests in the simulacrum by shooting at the various pillars from different distances and saw how terrible my vectis' accuracy became after quite a short distance, hence why I replaced heavy cal with other mods.
Otherwise I can only think of lag / desync problems...but the vectis p accuracy is pretty good on its own.

no i dont use heavy calibar on vectis cz demolish accuracy on it... its just bad..perfect aimed shot just pass target...

[Rekkou]

6 hours ago, Elyann said:

-snip-

With punchthrough most weapons can deal with horde mode. Because there are so many enemies and some maps are actually pretty small, enemies lines up as often as they are standing next to each other. If enemies appeared like they're in shoot'em up then simply treat the weapons like they're in shoot'em up. You've got Rifles and Shotgun to deal with widespread enemies, you've got Sniper and Bows for enemies in straight line.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

20 hours ago, ashrah said:

no i dont use heavy calibar on vectis cz demolish accuracy on it... its just bad..perfect aimed shot just pass target...

Been a bug/feature/bs/whatever since it released, could never pin point the cause since slow or fast firing it's still random. It seems to happen to any sniper now (baring Lanka) since the sniper nerfwork, one of the many reasons I abandoned snipers a while ago.

[ashrah]

17 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Been a bug/feature/bs/whatever since it released, could never pin point the cause since slow or fast firing it's still random. It seems to happen to any sniper now (baring Lanka) since the sniper nerfwork, one of the many reasons I abandoned snipers a while ago.

snipers really need some love.. no reson now to use any expect lanka..at first i was think well i am not aim well maybe first time but wen i missed second time like u say pin point aimed shot...

[Elyann]

On 30/3/2017 at 1:45 AM, Rekkou said:

With punchthrough most weapons can deal with horde mode. Because there are so many enemies and some maps are actually pretty small, enemies lines up as often as they are standing next to each other. If enemies appeared like they're in shoot'em up then simply treat the weapons like they're in shoot'em up. You've got Rifles and Shotgun to deal with widespread enemies, you've got Sniper and Bows for enemies in straight line.

Indeed but, apart from the fact that punchthrough forces you to take another good mod out of its slot, some bows & shotguns  happen to have innate punch through already and people tend to use punchthrough mods on automatic weapons too such as the soma p (which is definitely going to take out whole packs of enemies a lot faster than you with your vectis ); sure, you can kill that level 120 bombard  in a few shots but so can any other player who brought a shotgun or is using his focus invisibility + melee or who's using an assassination specific frame / bows / whatever....
What I mean is that snipers simply aren't as effective as they should be anymore , they need a rework.
Giving snipers innate punchthrough could be a solution but there's lots of things that could be done instead, really.

[Rekkou]

3 hours ago, Elyann said:

Indeed but, apart from the fact that punchthrough forces you to take another good mod out of its slot, some bows & shotguns  happen to have innate punch through already and people tend to use punchthrough mods on automatic weapons too such as the soma p (which is definitely going to take out whole packs of enemies a lot faster than you with your vectis ); sure, you can kill that level 120 bombard  in a few shots but so can any other player who brought a shotgun or is using his focus invisibility + melee or who's using an assassination specific frame / bows / whatever....
What I mean is that snipers simply aren't as effective as they should be anymore , they need a rework.
Giving snipers innate punchthrough could be a solution but there's lots of things that could be done instead, really.

If you only need 1 mod to fix something then i'll say it's not a problem, bows will also need vile acceleration to drastically decrease their draw time. Point Strike should be enough to fix Sniper's crit chance while Argon Scope improve that further into red crit on headshots. But at the moment these 2 mods can only make snipers to be somewhat reliable while these 2 mods on Bows can improve their damage output significantly.

[Fallen_Echo]

Snipers need:

1. More bonus damage on a headshot while aiming. (something to differentate sniping with sniper vs sniping with semi-auto guns)
2. Increased critical chance
3. Aim stabilization, if they want to keep the horrible swaying then give us a "hold breath" mode to stabilize our aim
4. Revert the hipfire nerf, If i can accurately aim freaking assault rifles, grenade launchers,crossbows then snipers shouldnt have this problem
5. Keep hipfire nerf but increase the base damage by 100% or add in base armor ignore effect for 25%.If i have to aim to kill accurately then atleast let me actually kill dangerous targets.

[Vaeloth]

Big post. Havent read it all. Seeing alot of comments so far about the lanka being a good sniper in zoom because of its crit chance bonus. But its zoom sways soooo much. Its actually really unwieldy to use it fully zoomed in. Its friggin hard to hit cos it moves around so much. Its not worth zooming in that far cos theyll run out of your scope vision or you cant get a good shot anyway cos the scope sways so much.

[taiiat]

 

in regards to Optics and Crits:

On 3/25/2017 at 5:03 AM, taiiat said:

much more useful for Weakpoints to give a Crit Chance Bonus - 25 flat is good (with assuming that all Optics on Sniper Rifles will give a 15 Crit Chance Bonus at all levels - save for Lanka ofc that has large Crit Chance Bonus as its unique and that wouldn't change).
i.e. 62.5% hipfire, 77.5% Optic, 102.5% Weakpoint.

 

still need things other than Lanka and Rubico to have actually useful Optic Bonuses ofcourse - 15 Crit Chance would be a universal minus Lanka, then the rest still need a unique Bonus for them.

a little bit is quite the understatement, the highest 'Damage Bonus' of 20% for Vectis Prime/Vulkar Series.... is ~+7.5% Damage per Shot.
completely irrelevant. also quite bland not only because it's just higher Base Damage, but that so many share the same type of Bonus.
even if they were Final Multipliers, they'd still be bad Bonuses, because they're almost all the same.

and ofc Optics should all wobble around about half of what they do now. maybe a quarter.

[Mousarchy]

sombody has a post talking about a decent rework..but TLDR the biggest issues with snipers is
1 they excell at single target game in a mass killing game....only lanka (and sniptron) have inate punchthrough..yet a hand drawn bow has 8 (or was it 12)m of innate punch? snipers should all have punch
2 snipers are for the patient players...so why is the damage locked behind a reset countdown. let them be focused on persision. have the damage combo go up and only reset on unscoped/missed shots instead of after x seconds. (harkonar can even rebrand to give courtesy shots)
3. give snipers a unique slot for things like "scope mods" along the lines of adjustable zoom,x-ray scope,critical point highlights/dmg.

 

[TaylorsContraction]

On 03/29/2017 at 9:41 AM, NinjaZeku said:

How about a Sniper-only alternative to Point Strike?

Maybe a Corrupted Mod with a little bit of ... dunno, -Damage or whatever,
it sets your crit chance to an unchangeable 100%, no more, no less.

You could still get red crits with good ol' Point Strike and Lanka / Argon Scope / Kavat boosts / whatnot
so it'd not be entirely mandatory, "just" a very comfortable method of ensuring crits.

I think your suggestion isn't good.  I already have 100%+ crit rate on my snipers thanks to riven mods.  The mod you suggest would be an intermediate mod at best that some would use until they get a decent riven for their snipers after which point it will be no different from warm coat.  Just there sitting in our mod collection collecting dust.  Franky I sincerely do not want to see a another band aid or useless mod added into the game.

[Mousarchy]

8 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

I think your suggestion isn't good.  I already have 100%+ crit rate on my snipers thanks to riven mods.  The mod you suggest would be an intermediate mod at best that some would use until they get a decent riven for their snipers after which point it will be no different from warm coat.  Just there sitting in our mod collection collecting dust.  Franky I sincerely do not want to see a another band aid or useless mod added into the game.

ya but hes basically implementing a mod that would end up making it a base 100% crit chance. so that +riven mod would end up turning out a new strand of covert lethality. a bandaid gone wrong.

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

I am not sure what the answer is, but SR do need some serious love. I would rather use the Dex Sybaris over that of any Sniper atm because of its crit and lack of zoom in mechanic.

[Rekkou]

9 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

I think your suggestion isn't good.  I already have 100%+ crit rate on my snipers thanks to riven mods.  The mod you suggest would be an intermediate mod at best that some would use until they get a decent riven for their snipers after which point it will be no different from warm coat.  Just there sitting in our mod collection collecting dust.  Franky I sincerely do not want to see a another band aid or useless mod added into the game.

Rivens are not an answer as well, if you like Snipers you'll want to use all of them. If there is a new sniper comes out with another 25% crit chance, you can't rely finding a new riven just to make it viable.

And if you can get 100% crit chance with universal mods, then you can just roll your rivens for more damage.

[(PSN)evoLic1ouSss]

because this isnt a snipe gun game. its all about spam and pray, the aiming system and cross-hair are not for serious 1st person shooting like CoD. so just move on and deal with it

[Xana_Skullsunder]

1 hour ago, (PS4)evoLic1ouSss said:

because this isnt a snipe gun game. its all about spam and pray, the aiming system and cross-hair are not for serious 1st person shooting like CoD. so just move on and deal with it

... This feedback is awful. Seriously. "just move on and deal with it"? Rubbish. Sniper rifles are in the game, and they should be reasonably usable in said game.

 

Anyway, I don't know why snipers need a crit stat at all. Our damage with them should be entirely dependent on our aim, and the stats should be adjusted accordingly.

Edited April 4, 2017 by XanaSkullpulper

[Rekkou]

1 hour ago, (PS4)evoLic1ouSss said:

because this isnt a snipe gun game. its all about spam and pray, the aiming system and cross-hair are not for serious 1st person shooting like CoD. so just move on and deal with it

 

As in quickscoping and aim assist? Isn't it hypocritical to dismiss our needs for weapon balances when you need a 2 assist mechanics just to aim?

[Serialkillerwhale]

4 hours ago, Rekkou said:

 

As in quickscoping and aim assist? Isn't it hypocritical to dismiss our needs for weapon balances when you need a 2 assist mechanics just to aim?

Console FPS games in a nutshell.

[taiiat]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:02 PM, Ordosan said:

yet a hand drawn bow has 8 (or was it 12)m of innate punch?

Bows have 1m. but Bolt Type Projectiles also carry Corpses with them and will deal full Damage of the hit that Killed to any Enemies behind it.

so the Arrow itself will pierce through that first Enemy (and 10,20,30 behind it like any other Weapon with enough Punch-Through to pierce fat Enemies like Bombards will do), and the Corpse will follow it, potentially Killing and dragging those Enemies with it if it Kills those Enemies.

[(PSN)evoLic1ouSss]

On 2017/4/4 at 9:32 AM, XanaSkullpulper said:

... This feedback is awful. Seriously. "just move on and deal with it"? Rubbish. Sniper rifles are in the game, and they should be reasonably usable in said game.

 

Anyway, I don't know why snipers need a crit stat at all. Our damage with them should be entirely dependent on our aim, and the stats should be adjusted accordingly.

sure if you wanna take it that way, but been playing this game awhile now, whatever they did to the game i just deal with it and play and enjoy instead of complaining. the mobs in this game always comes towards you in a massive numbers, only mission that sniper gets to shine is maybe spy/cap mission unless you dont care about dps. if you havent noticed from mesa, ash, ember banshee and synoid simulor, all about aoe and spam. 

[(PSN)evoLic1ouSss]

On 2017/4/4 at 10:11 AM, Rekkou said:

 

As in quickscoping and aim assist? Isn't it hypocritical to dismiss our needs for weapon balances when you need a 2 assist mechanics just to aim?

sniper has been in this game for yrs, im just saying.  why hast DE changed it, its not the 1st time ppl complain about sniper not being involved like some other weapon. i like snipers too, but this game just not the type of game for sniper, only 2 missions is for it spy/capture or boss, other missions usually a group of mobs comes at you. a melee weapon like galatine p does better job than sniper. 

i hated almost every update they did since u11, and every nerf they did. from novas mp, peace maker mesa, ash, mag greedy pull,...etc   and especially hated the  relic system, but just moved on and try to enjoy what de throws into this game.