The Nullifier change, changed nothing

[Volinus7]

"Do not attempt to play at ultra high level where going into the bubble is no longer an option because you are kept alive by your abilities spamming" said DE....

[SenorClipClop]

3 hours ago, DeMeritus said:

Working as intended, as far as I can tell.

Or maybe not? DE wanted to give snipers and other low fire-rate weapons a way to take out Nullifiers. If that isn't a reality yet, then the drone is not working as intended yet. Keep in mind that even high-priority stuff can take a while to get fixed (remember U18.13's Magnetize?), so it might actually be that something is wrong and they're working on it. Or are you actually suspicious of a game company doing all that work to spite its players for some reason?

[SenorClipClop]

Double post, please ignore.

Edited March 29, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Prime-Ares]

16 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Apparently its not just the changes that DE made to Nullifier that didnt change anything, the playerbase is still either too cowared or too lazy to jump into the Nullifier bubble and taking the Nullifier down directly...

 

 

 

Then you've clearly never gone into these bubbles to "take the Nully down directly" when multiple Tech's, Bursas, Sapping ospreys, Heavy's / Bombard's are surrounding it that if their ridiculous AOE, perfect aim or Eximus abilities by miracle haven't killed you already, you get your a s s ground pounded back into the stone age and raped in every possible direction, no matter what melee / mod you're using that close to them.

 

God forbid the bubble-f***ers begin stacking too...oh lord.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Prime-Ares

[Hellnar_Doombringer]

It changed many things. now we could one shot the nullifier bubble not just the device on top of it. Before we had to hit like 5 or 6 times to pop-up the bubble even tho you are hitting like a truck unlike now. I think it is way more better than it was

[Yaerion]

17 hours ago, malekas said:

The main point of the Nullifier change was to give slow rate of fire weapons like bows and sniper rifles a chance against them. The way that this change was put in place didn't accomplish any of that. The way that the drone resists damage, and the way that it moves around (most of the time to the opposite side of the bubble from where you're standing) make it so slow firing weapons still have a hard time. And even with this new drone it's still easier to just slowly shoot the bubble until you pop it, rather then trying to hit the drone.

Nullified in General Discussion, and redeployed in Feedback]General.

[ShinigamiZack]

17 hours ago, kyori said:

Yes, we are screwed if in tight space tilesets as the drone will be on the ceiling... mostly the angle to shoot it is covered by the bubble. lol

it remind me when you was sandwiched by 3 bursa in an air vent , pretty funky time (for them , not me ) I think i ended out of the went by bouncing against walls, just thinking of it my whole body hurt >< 

[Demon.King]

17 hours ago, The_Doc said:

I was thinking about this while playing a sortie yesterday. The drone took two whole magazines from my maxed-out multi-forma riven-equipped Rubico.

And 4 regular shots were enough to pop the bubble itself.

This is the main issue with the current implementation. When shooting the bubble with slow RoF weapons AND THEN killing the nullifier is still CONSIDERABLY better than shooting the weak point to just disable the nullifier, you have a design flaw...

It is understandable that destroying the weakpoint shouldn't be too easy since it permanently disables the nullifier, but making it harder than popping the bubble is pointless since then you might as well just pop the bubble and kill the nullifier directly. So...this change only works at lower levels, where killing the drone is faster than shooting the bubble...

It needs tweaks to scaling to be viable more consistently across levels. Killing the drone with low RoF weapons should always be easier than shooting the bubble.

It is however a big step in the right direction, so lets not be too negative about this.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Demon.King

[BiancaRoughfin]

9 hours ago, Prime-Ares said:

Then you've clearly never gone into these bubbles to "take the Nully down directly" when multiple Tech's, Bursas, Sapping ospreys, Heavy's / Bombard's are surrounding it that if their ridiculous AOE, perfect aim or Eximus abilities by miracle haven't killed you already, you get your a s s ground pounded back into the stone age and raped in every possible direction, no matter what melee / mod you're using that close to them.

 

God forbid the bubble-f***ers begin stacking too...oh lord.

Sorry but i have for the sake of my team and mission many times jumped into Nullifier Bubbles crowded with "Tech's, Bursas, Sapping ospreys, Heavy's / Bombard's" and Eximus, jump attacked right above the Nullifier most of the times killing it instantly or dealing enough damage to pop the bubble and have my teammates finish of the enemies that were within it. Of course its something you have to be geared with and know when and how to strike to do it right.

Again, Nullifiers arent the problems, the players are. Nully are made to force players out of their comfort zones.

[Ranchpig]

23 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Again, Nullifiers arent the problems, the players are. Nully are made to force players out of their comfort zones.

Really?   Hmmm... i think the majority of the community would actually disagree completely and DE as well seeing as how they were forced to address a pretty major complaint from players.   Even if their implementation actually doesn't work as intended.    And how do you know that the nullifiers were intended to force players out of their comfort zones?   Citation needed.

Truth be told they can be effectively dealt with by any fast rate secondary, but then this limits loadout options.   I think that's why the outcry for punch thru or some other "fix" for slow rate ultra powerful weapons.    It's nice to have options in a game with so many choices.   And by the way, your scenario of just jumping in/out of bubbles doesn't take into account Solo play which a lot of us really enjoy.   

[RacerDelux]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:27 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Apparently its not just the changes that DE made to Nullifier that didnt change anything, the playerbase is still either too cowared or too lazy to jump into the Nullifier bubble and taking the Nullifier down directly...

Tell you what, why don't you do this when all of the enemies are level 500. Come back and let me know how you fared.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Those drones drop an awful lot of long-lasting nullifier orbs.

They either need a cap to how many orbs they can lay total/at a time with the current orb duration or the orb exists for a shorter duration.

Edited March 29, 2017 by (PS4)Hooligantuan

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, RacerDelux said:

Tell you what, why don't you do this when all of the enemies are level 500. Come back and let me know how you fared.

Tell me what, why dont you do it first as im pretty sure you havent been there yet either?

Sorties go up to lvl 100 and im not having issues with the Nullifiers there.

Edited March 29, 2017 by BiancaRoughfin

[VentiGlondi]

The drone adjusts to ceiling level, so that it doesn't clip into environment, but it doesn't matter, because there is no horizontal check.

It clips into walls instead.

[RacerDelux]

Just now, BiancaRoughfin said:

Tell me what, why dont you do it first as im pretty sure you havent been there yet either?

I have been past that... many times... It really is not that hard...

And I will tell you what happens, you will die most of the time.

Granted, there are weapons that take out the bubbles easily, but it limits the loadout you can have.

[VentiGlondi]

2 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Tell me what, why dont you do it first as im pretty sure you havent been there yet either?

Sorties go up to lvl 100 and im not having issues with the Nullifiers there.

At this point it's going to spawn 3 nullifiers and 4 techs, each of which is going to kill you with a single pellet. If you manage to enter the bubble without instantly dying, you're probably running Naramon

[BiancaRoughfin]

10 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

At this point it's going to spawn 3 nullifiers and 4 techs, each of which is going to kill you with a single pellet. If you manage to enter the bubble without instantly dying, you're probably running Naramon

Vazarin and i still manage it.

[VentiGlondi]

Just now, BiancaRoughfin said:

Vazarin and i still manage it.

Well, as a person who can manage more, my argument is more valid.

You just have to take my statements for granted.

[BiancaRoughfin]

Kicks knock enemies down, ground slams make them bounce and fall. Gives me more than enough time to do whats needed. The Kronen for example is a low MR Tonfa, it does a hell of a strong ragdolling to enemies near the ground slam, some times even glitching them against the corner of the wall and preventing them from ever getting up again.

Anyways, i said what i needed to say, i dont have issues with Nullifiers even on lvl 100+ Sorties.

[RacerDelux]

1 minute ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Anyways, i said what i needed to say, i dont have issues with Nullifiers even on lvl 100+ Sorties.

I never said I had an issue with nullifiers - I was just pointing out that the strategy of ENTERING the bubble to kill them does NOT work at a certain point. The risk is to great. In high level content, if you go down, you will probably be using a revive. This is because any attempt for your team to revive you could end up in the entire group dying as well.

[TaylorsContraction]

The thing I noticed in yesterday's sorties was it took 4-5 shots with my strun wraith to kill the drones but only one shot to kill the nullifiers.  The drone's defenses should not be comparable or exceed that of the nullifier.  Imo, if I can one shot the nullifier,  I should be able to one shot the drone.

[chuckdm]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:33 AM, aliifghjkl said:

Or, what if they made so that punchthrough works on the bubble? It would be easier and it fit the mods description as well.

I've said this like 50 times here on the forums and more times to my fellow alliance members than I can count and almost always get agreement.  This really is a simple, effective solution.  It already makes no sense that my weapon can shoot through Jackal, who has "proto-shields" and still kill the mine ospreys behind him, but somehow nullifier shields are so super-tough that not even 3m+ of punchthrough will pierce them.  It doesn't make lore sense, and gameplay-wise it negates 2-3 weapon categories that it was already hard to justify bringing to a mission instead of just taking the Soma Prime or Prisma Grakata absolutely everywhere.

And just for extra hilarity, the weapons most thought of as OP - the Simulor and Tonkor - are both capable of killing the nullifier through the bubble with their AoE, even after the recent nerf/changes.  Instead of encouraging snipers and bows, this reinforces that idea that the Simulor is still the best way to kill them.

As for everyone suggesting "just go melee them" try doing this with Octavia, or Loki after a squadmate has alerted the whole damn map, or a dozen other squishy frames.  Many, many frames are ONLY survivable BECAUSE of their abilities.  Once you pass lv80 or so, meleeing a nullifier is suicide with half the frames in the entire game over 90% of the time.  Why?  Because, in the time it takes you to recast the abilities that were keeping you alive, you've already been killed.  Melee is ONLY a solution to nullifiers at Star Chart levels, and even though I don't normally advocate balancing the game around lv80 enemies, I do think decisions about basic tactics that players can use to tackle your content MUST include considerations for high-level enemies.

Just make punchthrough affect them.  That's all.  It solves this entire problem.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Tbh if we base it on punchthrough i feel a lot would run to ignis and not bows or snipers.

[TheChaotic1]

Honestly there didn't really need to be a change, nullifiers are a bit annoying not game breaking. As for people complaining because they want to go into lvl 500 missions, just deal with it? Honestly? If you are going to push the system you are gonna deal with the consequences of pushing the system. And one of those consequences is bullets that deal 827k damage

[Charflopp]

To be honest i think they need to lower the spawn rate of the nullifiers. The survivability is based on how well you can use the frames ability and what weapons you have for cc. The nerf to the heavy damage cc weapons killed being able to run the squishy frames. As soon as nullie taps you, theres nothing you can do. Then on top of that you get back up, just to have to kill 4-6 nullifiers. Well how well do you think that goes? I say have the explosion weapons do less self damage, the nullifiers lower spawn rate, and let poor valkyr touch a bubble without completely vaporizing. Poor kitty. Im not even a valkyr player, its just super sad to watch. But seriously! How do you cc a mass group of nullifiers? Just to be able to revive a fellow tenno.