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4K UI Support: Part 2

[DE]Danielle

By [DE]Danielle,
in Developer Workshops

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Ultra-9

Ultra-9

Posted
Posted

I, for one am getting used to the supersized UI and am actually starting to enjoy it. I have also turned up my HUD scale to maximum but the font resolution is crappy - I believe I read somwehere that is being worked on as well. God speed.

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Khunvyel

Khunvyel

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Posted

To the rest arguing and @SilentMobius I'm with you on most things, especially the case on how people seem to be too sensitive to understand what is constructive feedback and well reasoned criticism and instead appear to take it as personal attack, which is nonsense, as SilentMobius doesn't attack anyone. However what I fail to understand is how SilentMobius overlooks the obvious when putting so much emphasis on systematic analysis.

You said; "You can see two sets of before-and after in my post only a few above, you can see the HUD is the same sale. occasional additional elements (transmissions etc) are scaled to match how they were intended to appear at 1600x900 but they are infrequent and rarely important." and you said "The elements are simply ((1080/900)-1)*100 = 20% bigger (Which I just confirmed in gimp) which IMHO count's as "a little"."

In the first statement you seem to completely ignore every other use case than your own despite talking on a broad scale. Have you seen the screenshots posted of in-mission HUDs? http://i.imgur.com/llbWbj8.jpg I go out on a limb and would believe "this has been fixed as of now" but I don't know. You cannot dismiss the screenshots that have been posted where people had their UI stuck at 300% like that no matter what they do to the slider. System configurations vary greatly so only if it works at one (your) computer fine doesn't mean it works on another. That's where the bugs happen too. If you are one of the people that are fine with the changes and who have their gaming experience not decreased because of it, I can honestly say I'm glad for you :) Sadly this is not the case for everyone.

The other thing is where you make a subjective case and appear to treat it as objective fact. 20% to ME would be quite a drastic change. I know you said "imho" but defended it to not be a big deal, if I read that correctly. I always hoped that when ( or rather, IF) the UI gets properly scaled to 4:3 aspect ratios to no longer be squished horizontally, it will also have a decently small font size. Sadly it doesn't now as the text looks like there is too much smoothing going on in non-mission UI places which makes the text blurry instead of smooth (I do not have anti-aliasing on). In Eve online for example, where screen space is treated like expensive real estate, even one point of UI font size makes or breaks things on the subjective user level. Which leads us to your statement of; "I will refute anything that I can demonstrate is not true, It's important to allow the devs to focus on the actual problems rather than chasing non-issues, and I'll agree with any issues I can replicate, as I did above with non-standard aspect ratios."

Would you then run the game in accurately windowed 4:3 or rather 5:4 aspect ratio and tell me what you see there? I do not want to dismiss your statement in which you said how 20% increase is not a big deal for you. That's your subjective assessment of the situation and that's fine until the moment where you appear to be dismissive of other people's "hyperboles". To me, 20% bigger UI size would be a catastrophe but thankfully I don't see that increase in size. I'm on the other end of the spectrum, where the game treats SOME parts of the UI as if I had a 720p screen (Starmap, syndicate window, Arsenal, mod section, foundry, etc. Basically everything that was squished horizontally before is now in the right proportions but treated as if I use a 16:9 screen ). You are not the one to decide what is a non-issue and what isn't, and neither should anyone else tell you the same. Everyone of us has different use cases. I understand why DE "had" to push the 4K UI move. That doesn't mean we cannot criticize reasonably bad executions and give our feedback where it is needed. Sure, not everything was constructive and well mannered. But to dismiss demonstrably bad use cases on your end isn't the best of example either. So while you are correct in your assessment that only the Mission HUD is affected by strange aspect ratios (which is why the game has an aspect ratio selector too, which I guess some people overlooked) I would hope that when you say "true" you do not include opinions like "20% is not much" into this truth blanket. Then we're good :)

Now since you said you agree with issues you can replicate, but consider what you said above, to me it appears to translates into "even if I replicate the isssue, I put my subjective point of view on it, and if I call it a non-issue, it is a non-issue." Despite your efforts to put things into perspective, this is the dismissive tone that could be gleaned from it. And I believe that's the point some people take offense. Not that they should, but it's a possible explanation. My only gripe would be that you dilute objective facts with subjective opinions, as seen with the 20% example.

This post should be treated as a lesson in reading comprehension of all parties involved. I don't have hard feelings toward Silentmobius or anyone else here. I just see the usual happening on the internet where the own subjective opinion is ingrained so hard with no room for adaptation that people lock horns of the stupidest reasons. And since it is a case that is also affecting me as a player, I don't want that to escalate.

Which is why I asked the questions I did on page one which I still believe are very valid and I would love to get them answered. Because they would probably answer a lot of questions that keep popping up. Especially the one that says "why did you ship it." I mean sure, maybe the PC players are again the guinea pigs for the consoles so they get their 4K UI patched properly when it happens :D But who knows.

Spoiler
  1. Was the issue with the supersize hud happening in QA on non-4k sized screens, and if so, why did you decide to ship it anyhow instead of delaying it until it worked?
  2. What is the underlying issue to have the text not as vector-scalable as the rest of the UI? All icons I see are super crisp. Why is there an issue with the font in the first place? Is it the engine which doesn't play well with truetype fonts aka "not every vector is born alike?"
  3. Is the UI affected by anti-aliasing in the video settings, and if so, why? Because if they're vectors to begin with, no anti-aliasing is needed and maybe would safe some UI artefacts and retain better readability (this is just pure speculation, but I also said "if so")
  4. Why does it feel that the UI is only designed for one aspect ratio and one specific size? Is it too much development time lost to have a more modular design approach that would fit more resolutions and aspect ratios with less scaling issues?

 

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Khunvyel

Khunvyel

Posted
Posted

Actually, let's put what I said to the test and look what the aspect ratios actually do to the Mission HUD. The answer is: NOTHING. And I guess this is also where we start to see the crux of the problem, as the in-mission HUD is some kind of hardcoded thing that won't budge and only stick to it's corners, adjusting to all proportion blown stretches done to it instead of keeping it's own fixed proportions and only scale them accordingly.

Superstretched window with aspect ratios in order of option appearance: Auto, 4:3, 16:9, 16:10, 21:9.

Spoiler

 

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PoulsenJ

PoulsenJ

Posted
Posted

What is the ETA on fixing this problem ? This is a 4 year old game and to be honest this is ridiculous, every day you go to bed with a headache ! after playing the bare minimum of that you need that day.

Maybe now you will learn to test things out, properly. Before releasing broken content.

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yingji

yingji

Posted
Posted

Maybe many of the people who are repeating how U20 helped 4k players are people who haven't seen how dire Warframe now looks on 4k. It's real bad, same scaling problems as any other resolution.

As for 1920x1080, the FoV looks like I'm zoomed hard into a 800x600 screen.

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AuroraSonicBoom

AuroraSonicBoom

Posted
Posted

I don't mind the wait, but I just dearly hope that the solution was meant to be part of the functionality from the start and not only decided on after you've got all of this feedback. I'd be disappointed to learn that you really thought lower resolutions looked fine like this.

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-SpacePanda-

-SpacePanda-

Posted
Posted

The UI and Field of View actually looks fine in the Arena mission for Kyla (Vodyanoi). The dramatic change in the UI since the update is extremely noticeable on this mission and it seems that the update has also had a severe impact on the Field of View (I play on max FoV). The disparity between the mission-specific text and the UI text is also very noticeable.

I really hope that the UI fix will also address the FoV so that the FoV also scales properly with the rest of the UI. 

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Choggo

Choggo

Posted
Posted (edited)

I play on a 48" 4K TV and the current UI changes have been painful, it's not "game breaking" like many seem to be overly exaggerating about, though. DE can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there are 2 issues, first is a bug where the scaling is inconsistent, some items are tiny like chat, others are giant.  

The second issue just seems to be an odd oversight by the Devs and they only implemented the ability to increase the UI but not decrease.  Which, along with fixing the bug I mentioned, would resolve everyone's problem, as it gives players the freedom to increase or decrease the scale of the UI to their own preference.

Here is a screenshot of what I see.  Giant UI...itty bitty chat space.

20170402081937_1_zpsff8i2w1m.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Choggo
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sabrewulf

sabrewulf

Posted
Posted (edited)

I would like to know is if this "bug" or the changes that are being fixed which so far, for the most part, have been harmful to the game, how hard is it to do a roll back to the previous UI? What are aspect(s) of the new patch dependent on the new 4K UI changes to where they could not be undone or re-tested later on? Would a roll back harm the game more? Is that why a roll back is not being considered? I mean ... really?

Edited by sabrewulf
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NightmareT12

NightmareT12

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Posted

Well, Steve showed yesterday on stream the menu scaler option. Default is at 100, which is same as now, most of you guys will want it at 84 so you can have the previous size (previous UI was 1600x900, to a 1920x1080 screen it covered 83,3% of space in screen). Still a few bugs to iron out it seems, though.

Danielle, you might want to add that to the first post -- specially the part that the scaling option is coming soonTM :)

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Zanchak

Zanchak

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Posted
On 29/03/2017 at 8:15 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

Heads up - we're making this its own thread since the previous Dev Workshop was before release. Now that we're days into the release of Update 20, we're starting a post-release thread on the topic. 

U20 brought 4K support to our Menus & UI as per the original 4K UI Support Dev Workshop thread, and while we’re excited to have Warframe looking good in 4K, we realize that for those using different resolutions these changes have had a magnifying effect.

Our work is not quite done. 

To save your eyes and restore Menu utility to its former glory, we are working on adding a Menu Scaling Slider in the HUD settings. It will take us some time to touch on all Menus (as there are many), but this will give you the freedom to chose super-sized to kids meal menu UI and anything in between regardless of your resolution. Once we have more solid progress on this, we'll let you know (with examples). 

We still have the nut to crack of text rendering across the board - we'll get to this when we can! 

Thank you for your patience as continue to work on improving UI across resolutions! 
 

@[DE]Danielle

Will this help with the dizzying headachey greenery thats appeared since this update because I honestly can't work out why I can barely play anymore or what settings to change to help it if any. It's like when I play archwing (motion sickness) but ALL the time now (if to a lesser degree), and its only been since the update and I didn't change any settings. I got home after over a week in hospital excited to play again and grab octavia and whatevers happened to how it "looks" just makes me sick after a couple missions so Im pretty sad faced atm with no idea what to "fix".

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IcyJalapeno

IcyJalapeno

Posted
Posted
On 3/28/2017 at 5:15 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Heads up - we're making this its own thread since the previous Dev Workshop was before release. Now that we're days into the release of Update 20, we're starting a post-release thread on the topic. 

U20 brought 4K support to our Menus & UI as per the original 4K UI Support Dev Workshop thread, and while we’re excited to have Warframe looking good in 4K, we realize that for those using different resolutions these changes have had a magnifying effect.

Our work is not quite done. 

To save your eyes and restore Menu utility to its former glory, we are working on adding a Menu Scaling Slider in the HUD settings. It will take us some time to touch on all Menus (as there are many), but this will give you the freedom to chose super-sized to kids meal menu UI and anything in between regardless of your resolution. Once we have more solid progress on this, we'll let you know (with examples). 

We still have the nut to crack of text rendering across the board - we'll get to this when we can! 

Thank you for your patience as continue to work on improving UI across resolutions! 
 

Why did menu scaling start with 4K and not end with 4k? Only asking since 4K is the minority of res sizes. Also thanks for not private testing on other resolution before dumping this on live servers. GGWP. Can we get the fixes for this dumpster fire sometime this week? Maybe? Yes?

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SLIMJIMMONSTER

SLIMJIMMONSTER

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/4/2017 at 1:24 PM, NightmareT12 said:

Steve said they were ironing a few bugs out still. But mostly seemed functional, I think it has big numbers it may ship on 20.1

well..... it's obvious they care more about reskins and a giant sword than fixing the UI.... 

Edited by SLIMJIMMONSTER
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