Warframe is... boring?

[Kei-Inc.]

Firstly, a warning, this post is very long, apologies in advance. 

So, I've been playing the game for about a year, and I know that's nothing compared to a lot of players, but I've now reached the point where I don't really have anything to do. Now don't get me wrong, I love this game. I really do. And that's why I wanted to post this because I want an incentive to keep playing it. The fighting system is fluid, the universe is cool and I really like the lore (even if there isn't that much). But I think what I like the most is the variety of frames and weapons to choose from. It's so nice to be able to break away from your main and be able to choose from many others. 

But here's the major problem, there is nothing to really use them for. Especially with this new riven system, which makes weapons even more powerful.

I suppose some may argue that sorties and raids are considered 'end game' content, but you only do one type of raid which you have to do over and over at the hopes of a cool drop. And after doing it a couple of times, it's all right, especially with CC frames. This is similar to sorties, they are the same mission, just with higher level enemies and again, after doing them for a bit and the right set up, it's not really that bad. Also, sometimes these can be close to tedious, as it's not necessarily challenging, more, it takes longer to kill them (especially the boss fights on sorties). But that is just my personal view on these game modes. 

I suppose the alternative is endurance runs, which are nice with friends and can be rewarding but I don't think this really applies to everyone because not everyone wants to go against 1000+ enemies - or have the time to do so. 

I think with the removal of the void, Warframe became a little unrewarding for older players. I remember watching so many videos of people doing T4 defence or survival and getting really cool things and that's something I wanted to work towards, as a new player. But now farming parts can be done with any frame, which is nice, but has also made farming for prime parts a little monotonous.

I guess the big problem is that players, especially older players, have put so much effort and time into this game - which you have to, really - and receiving little reward for doing so. I still haven't got everything yet in Warframe, so it keeps me playing, but part of me doesn't want to collect them because I just think, what am I going to do after?

Ever since the removal of the old void system, I felt a kind of shift in mood from veteran players, they no longer seem to have that much incentive to play this game and only do so because they make regular content on it.

Edit: Something like the void needs to be brought back. The fun, I assumed some players had playing void missions but also something challenging and highly rewarding. High risk, high reward type-thing.  Not just enemies with ridiculous scaling or invulnerability stages. Something with missions that change to keep it interesting or maybe something like dungeons that are present in other MMO's. Of course, I don't really know whether these would be viable or not, so it would be nice to hear suggestions.

To summarise, DE, I think you need to show your veteran players a little love, because I really like this game and I want something to work towards, and I think veteran players want something to do. Perhaps trying to add a whole new 'end game' would be a good idea, instead of rolling out all these new frames and weapons which, ultimately, won't be put to much use. 

Again, sorry it's so long, and please don't take too much offence, this is just what I think and what I assume from what some players have said.

Edit: Again! (sorry), after hearing people's responses, I'm now aware the old void isn't what I thought it was and, I agree with this, the new system is better. But my point still stands about the whole endgame idea.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Kei-Inc.
Wrong wording + change of perspective

[(PSN)ChillZI1986]

 

I made a topic about this. It isn't about the void but about endless missions in general. This system would have this high risk -> high reward factor you are talking about.

People always bring the old void into discussion and say that it was better, but the only thing that was better was that you could use one key to get all this stuff.

Still if you think about the stuff you were rewarded for, it was just random prime parts. So I dont get why people think it was better in general.

[PrVonTuckIII]

You lost me at:

36 minutes ago, Kei-Inc. said:

Something like the void needs to be brought back, something fun, challenging and highly rewarding. High risk, high reward type-thing.

The old Void was anything but those. It was a three hour Rot C for a week for a ludicrously tiny chance to get what I wanted.

While I'll concede the point that new Void may not necessarily be the greatest when it comes to those, it does let me stare at something other than gold walls, and it lets me get the things I want easily

Also, for the last damn time, you can still do Endless missions. You don't get the excuse of saying, 'the old Void had lots of Endless missions to keep veterans active,' because you can still do that.

Edited March 30, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

The new player experience is solid.  From the beginning of Warframe to about the mid-game you're busy leveling mods.  But once you've maxed your mods you're either one-shotting content or you're cheesing content.  That's when you realize that Warframe lacks meaningful content to maintain a veteran's interest in playing.

Edited March 30, 2017 by (PS4)Magician_NG

[PrVonTuckIII]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

The new player experience is solid.  From the beginning of Warframe to about the mid-game you're busy leveling mods.  But once you've maxed your mods you're either one-shotting content or you're cheesing content.  That's when you realize that Warframe lacks meaningful content to maintain a veteran's interest in playing.

You mean that the majority of the veteran playerbase prefers to constantly use their precious meta loadouts over anything else. There is challenge, but you have to make it for yourself. If you use all the best gear, and use the most cheesy tactics, then you've lost the right to criticize the level of challenge, because of course there's no challenge for you.

[Kuestenjung]

49 minutes ago, Kei-Inc. said:

I think with the removal of the void, Warframe became a little unrewarding for older players. I remember watching so many videos of people doing T4 defence or survival and getting really cool things and that's something I wanted to work towards, as a new player. But now farming parts can be done with any frame, which is nice, but has also made farming for prime parts a little monotonous.

If you have no Void then you should maybe reinstall the game, cause the Void is still there.

And having the posibility to do whatever mission you like to get the part you want is monotonous, but doing 100waves of def or 2h survival and that over and over again isn´t?

If you want to do these runs then go ahead and do them but don´t say they are gone.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

You mean that the majority of the veteran playerbase prefers to constantly use their precious meta loadouts over anything else. There is challenge, but you have to make it for yourself. If you use all the best gear, and use the most cheesy tactics, then you've lost the right to criticize the level of challenge, because of course there's no challenge for you.

No, I don't mean to suggest that veteran players only use meta loadouts for everything.  However, if you choose to gimp yourself in order to make current content more challenging that's your prerogative.  But the fact that any player would choose to do that shows that there's a flaw in the game's design.  Not that I have any good suggestions for fixing that flaw.  I'm only acknowledging that I understand everything that Warframe offers in terms of content.

 

 

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just now, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

No, I don't mean to suggest that veteran players only use meta loadouts for everything.  However, if you choose to gimp yourself in order to make current content more challenging that's your prerogative.  But the fact that any player would choose to do that shows that there's a flaw in the game's design.  Not that I have any good suggestions for fixing that flaw.  I'm only acknowledging that I understand everything that Warframe offers in terms of content.

I see your point, but personally, I don't see it as a problem if the player has to make their own challenge. 

Either that, or DE should get around to more weapon balancing and enemy scaling changes. We need those if a challenge is to exist.

[k05h]

45 minutes ago, Kei-Inc. said:

Ever since the removal of the old void system, I felt a kind of shift in mood from veteran players, they no longer seem to have that much incentive to play this game and only do so because they make regular content on it.

I think you touch two different topics here. 

The removal of the void made me change the way I play warframe. Before the void was removed I spent my time mostly doing T3/4 defense or survival missions. After the void was gone I started to play different missions. It took me a while before I realized that the void gated me in just one tileset. But now I do play different tilesets and missions all the time. - There is less risk of getting burnt out and the occasional endless fissure mission is all I need nowadays. 

Removing the void made Warframe a more varied experience. But at the same time it also made it more casual. I rarely need high level builds for my missions. Only sortie requires multi-forma weapons. Nowadays I also use more weapons than I used when the void was around. I have more time testing the weapons without missing any prime parts. 

For me personally the removal of the void was a good thing because it keeps my gameplay varied. 

The other thing you mention is players coming back when new story content is around. If you look at steamcharts it is amazing how player numbers skyrocket once a new story mission gets released. I would say sacrificing endless modes that only hardcore players want for more story missions that even the most casual player loves seems to make sense. 

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

9 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

I see your point, but personally, I don't see it as a problem if the player has to make their own challenge. 

Either that, or DE should get around to more weapon balancing and enemy scaling changes. We need those if a challenge is to exist.

With the addition of riven mods and DE's decision to change the original intention of damage 3.0 (from mod removal to increasing mission difficulty) I fear enemy armor and effective health changes aren't going to happen.  Pushed aside, just like the sortie token system.  Although it'll be interesting to see how the new invincible-enemy-with-one small-weak-point "mini-boss" mobs will affect Warframe's level of challenge, mission to mission.

Edited March 30, 2017 by (PS4)Magician_NG
edited for clarity

[(XBOX)Penhalion Wolfe]

A lot of people, myself included, didn't like the old void aside from you could share keys and that made for a kind of team spirit as you could share 4 T4 keys and get a lot of nice stuff if you were lucky and could stick for the 8+ rotations each time.

The new relic system is better but, not liked all that much because it simply costs more to use it and then you have to go farm relics in set places to do it again. T4 Banshee keys being a particularly annoying farm at present as no-one seems to stick around ling enough to get more than one each time.

What we need is something akin to the endless missions that reward you depending on how long you managed to stay in the rotation but, crutially doesn't cost you a relic or key to get started. Just let's you grind along by the seat of your pants and get rewarded for it or shot to pieces if you're not up to the later rotations. Risk will be you leave dead and thus with nothing or crawl out, one life left with a worthy prize or two. A cross between survival and defence would be ideal.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Penhalion Wolfe said:

A lot of people, myself included, didn't like the old void aside from you could share keys and that made for a kind of team spirit as you could share 4 T4 keys and get a lot of nice stuff if you were lucky and could stick for the 8+ rotations each time.

The new relic system is better but, not liked all that much because it simply costs more to use it and then you have to go farm relics in set places to do it again. T4 Banshee keys being a particularly annoying farm at present as no-one seems to stick around ling enough to get more than one each time.

What we need is something akin to the endless missions that reward you depending on how long you managed to stay in the rotation but, crutially doesn't cost you a relic or key to get started. Just let's you grind along by the seat of your pants and get rewarded for it or shot to pieces if you're not up to the later rotations. Risk will be you leave dead and thus with nothing or crawl out, one life left with a worthy prize or two. A cross between survival and defence would be ideal.

DE gave us those 25% boosts to credits, affinity, drop chance, and number of drops for staying past the five minute mark.

That's as good as it's going to get.

[Kei-Inc.]

30 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

You lost me at:

The old Void was anything but those. It was a three hour Rot C for a week for a ludicrously tiny chance to get what I wanted.

While I'll concede the point that new Void may not necessarily be the greatest when it comes to those, it does let me stare at something other than gold walls, and it lets me get the things I want easily

Also, for the last damn time, you can still do Endless missions. You don't get the excuse of saying, 'the old Void had lots of Endless missions to keep veterans active,' because you can still do that.

Ah ok. Sorry. The void wasn't perfect, that much I can gather, pretty much runs the same mechanics as the rest of the game. But I never really got chance to experience it, so I assumed a lot of vets enjoyed it from what I saw.

Also, this is my bad, I'm not assuming the void was high risk, high reward, I'm suggesting that DE could possibly make something like that and the fun, that I assumed people had, in the void to be incorporated into that. I did not write that sentence correctly at all, sorry.

[Kei-Inc.]

11 minutes ago, k05h said:

I think you touch two different topics here. 

The removal of the void made me change the way I play warframe. Before the void was removed I spent my time mostly doing T3/4 defense or survival missions. After the void was gone I started to play different missions. It took me a while before I realized that the void gated me in just one tileset. But now I do play different tilesets and missions all the time. - There is less risk of getting burnt out and the occasional endless fissure mission is all I need nowadays. 

Removing the void made Warframe a more varied experience. But at the same time it also made it more casual. I rarely need high level builds for my missions. Only sortie requires multi-forma weapons. Nowadays I also use more weapons than I used when the void was around. I have more time testing the weapons without missing any prime parts. 

For me personally the removal of the void was a good thing because it keeps my gameplay varied. 

The other thing you mention is players coming back when new story content is around. If you look at steamcharts it is amazing how player numbers skyrocket once a new story mission gets released. I would say sacrificing endless modes that only hardcore players want for more story missions that even the most casual player loves seems to make sense. 

I see. I'm inclined to agree. I think I'd prefer story over relentlessly farming for hours in one mission, but it would have to be something permanent, or it wouldn't really be different to now. And I quite like the void change too, makes it easier to get parts, but, I assume, people had fun doing it and that's what, I assumed, was missing.

[Volinus7]

If you analyze mechanics, parameters and AI closely, you will notice that Warframe is a lot more like generic isometric MMORPG in disguise. 

If you think reward system is the cause of boredom rather than gameplay, congratulations you are indoctrinated by Skinner's box. 

 

Once you grasp perpetual build and team structure, going 4hours endless wouldn't be that different from 8hours. It's a matter of can you bottleneck horde of enemies to be manageable by your dps or not.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Volinus7

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

31 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

If you analyze mechanics, parameters and AI closely, you will notice that Warframe is a lot more like generic isometric MMORPG in disguise. 

Generic is a tad harsh.

Warframe certainly has more going for it than say...Skyforge, imo.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

5 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

You mean that the majority of the veteran playerbase prefers to constantly use their precious meta loadouts over anything else. There is challenge, but you have to make it for yourself. If you use all the best gear, and use the most cheesy tactics, then you've lost the right to criticize the level of challenge, because of course there's no challenge for you.

it is the game creator that should provide challenge.

the player should be able to equip the best loadout and still be challenged and receive rewards from it.

you cant say to like equip an mk-braton so that player can feel challenged.

also if we should grind it must be because there is a content that need to conquer and not because a new prime came out.

[KorbanGado]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

No, I don't mean to suggest that veteran players only use meta loadouts for everything.  However, if you choose to gimp yourself in order to make current content more challenging that's your prerogative.  But the fact that any player would choose to do that shows that there's a flaw in the game's design.  Not that I have any good suggestions for fixing that flaw.  I'm only acknowledging that I understand everything that Warframe offers in terms of content.

Where's the flaw in allowing a player to select their difficulty? Would you say playing a game with difficulty settings (easy, normal, hard) is bad game design because the player has to set the challenge? No matter how difficult the game is made, there will always be at least one person who doesn't find it difficult at all. It's like when Dark Souls came out and everyone was harping on how insanely hard it is - must be a lot of people out there who can't recognize patterns or don't have the reaction speeds, because I can gauran-darn-tee that the game isn't that hard to everyone. How decked out you are is effectively your difficulty level you've selected - personally, I prefer spending most my time in the low level areas, feeling some space Dynasty Warrior god, with maybe a small jaunt into things like sorties. I also have a bunch of dumb loadouts (like the A-10 warthog themed Zephyr build) I like to use.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

it is the game creator that should provide challenge.

the player should be able to equip the best loadout and still be challenged and receive rewards from it.

you cant say to like equip an mk-braton so that player can feel challenged.

also if we should grind it must be because there is a content that need to conquer and not because a new prime came out.

The reason you need to grind it is because it's a free to play game, and it's a lot more understanding on a consumer player base to say "you can either throw your time at grinding this out, or you can spend some money to just fast-track it" than it is to say "you can only get this if you pay" over and over again. Beyond that, some people like grinding and RNG - I'm not particularly one of those people, but I understand it's purpose in life. The game creator has already given you the capabilities to create challenge for yourself - just like any other game allowing you to choose Easy or Hard difficulty options.

6 hours ago, Kei-Inc. said:

-snip-

 I hated the old void compared to the new system. Being able to pick the mission I'd rather do to get the rewards is so much nicer than having to suffer through a t4 survival for 40 minutes only to get a stupid 20K credit reward after burning through 20 keys. Story keeps getting added on - and it's getting done so much faster than if they had George RR Martin on it - even though it's taking time. They keep adding more and more weapons and frames (even though it's gotten to the point that it probably wouldn't hurt to slow that down a bit and focus more on the story and missions, even though it's probably two separate departments to some extent).

This is a multiplayer game - I agree that it's always great to see more and more new stuff, and it's great that you love the mechanics. Thing is, it feels more and more like people are being hypercritical about things these days - a person can spend countless hours in a multiplayer game like CoD or the most popular MMO's - but when you look at it, all these things boiled down are essentially doing the same thing over and over ad nauseum. The best advice I have is that if you are finally sick of playing the 13 or so mission types or run out of drive to go after whatever things you don't have is to take a break from the game. The best part of this game is that it's free to play - you can walk away and come back when there's plenty of content that's new and/or improved. I did it a while after I first cleared the old starmap entirely, walked away for something like four months. Came back, and play it off and on all the time now - certainly far more fun with friends, like you stated, but I enjoy the game mechanically and seeing what crazy concoctions I can come up with as far as themes to all the things I'm using. I've only been absolutely driven to get everything once in the course of my playing - and that was after I hit 22 and wanted to get to 23 - and beyond that I just do the things that I enjoy doing when I play - because the reward is that enjoyment for me, not some RNGjesus guarded bauble that's inevitably going to infuriate me after I consistently get denied it on the reward screen (1000+ hours and only one rage quite - that's not bad at all).

That's my two cents.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

This is a game I play in binges.  I check on it at least weekly, though most days I just pop in for a moment to increment my Daily Login counter, and if an interesting Alert or Siege mission is running, maybe I'll do it.

Sometimes there are long stretches where I don't feel like Warframe or am occupied elsewhere.  I don't worry about it, because Warframe will still be rad and waiting.  It'll still be free.  It'll still have some of the most agile gameplay out there.

But each time I leave, it's not a break-up.  Everything gets boring if you keep hitting it.  I just give us both a rest.

[RistN]

6 hours ago, Kei-Inc. said:

I think with the removal of the void, Warframe became a little unrewarding for older players. I remember watching so many videos of people doing T4 defence or survival and getting really cool things and that's something I wanted to work towards, as a new player. But now farming parts can be done with any frame, which is nice, but has also made farming for prime parts a little monotonous.

Did you actually play old void?

This is a painful forum subject that has minority of players still demanding its return and fighting people on forums with their gloves off.I think that players that didn't play old void are the least of all who should demand it's return.

Do you know what was monotonous farming?Old void was.That's why it got changed.In reward tables you had not only forma and prime parts which had reduced drop chance but you had also orokin cells,fusion cores and other things I can't remember right now.Rewards were based on rotations and you don't know how boring was to farm for parts on defence, interception and survival missions C rotations with drop chance next to none.Ducat farms were nightmare also.

That was old void for you.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

Yes and no; reply to op. Frankly, I feel as though I'm more rewarded for my efforts than the old Void Key system. I can now have a fair chance at what prime part I'm looking for instead of 3 hour rotation C defenses in which I get fusion cores and 10 Fang Prime blades... 

That was a pain! I do agree with you in the fact that there isn't really endgame content, though. There are Raids and Sorties, but I guess there really is only so much to do. It does slowly expand overtime, but content drops only so often. 

If there really was endgame content then it would only be a matter of time before it is no longer considered endgame, especially in the ever expanding world of Warframe. (Oops, I went there...) 

 

[Kryshok]

You just have to figure out what you want to do...also taking time off from the game helps definately. Time off does allow a lot more content to be added and gives you more to do.

[Nezha_Rose]

Or go to conclave for a twist on things!

Right?

...anyone?

...ok.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Nezha_Rose

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

12 hours ago, Kei-Inc. said:

Firstly, a warning, this post is very long, apologies in advance..... etc. etc. etc 

so i read this. I too got to the point ur at. in the past that is. the thing that kept me playing and interested was wen i made a clan. gear and what not is all the same just different stats in the end. But clans brought me some complexity i needed to keep having fun. perhaps u should make one and try and make it grow?

[ThatOneGuy818]

I was just about to post the very same topic. I don't know how long its been since they've changed the void, but a rework it definitely in order here. Why would go through all the trouble of making such a interesting game only to lose players because there's simply nothing for them to do? It's starting to look like prime releases, re-releases, and new warframes are just band-aids for the larger problem. There's no endgame, but they feed us that non-sense about fashion frame being endgame.