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This is what everyone wants the most for clans in this 2017


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In this article, I just want to display what it´s been the most supported opinion within all the posts, I had the pleasure to read in this section of the forums, so please read carefully and leave your opinion about this very subject so, maybe just maybe, DE might notice (notice me senpai).

I really support the idea of having more information displayed for tenno in your clan. Information about their clan behavior. So the idea that it´s been making the most noise over the forums trying to lurk out, and become a reality by the hands of our developers it is the following one:

"Clan leaders should be able to know who is contributing with the clan and who doesn't", it is very simple. Although I should explain, since contributing is a wide term, in a clan you can contribute by; recruiting quality players, donating resources, credits or plat, hosting missions such raids or taxi for others (being a player that suffer from poor connection, the guys that host in my clan are my saving grace, luv u guys). So, for all these kind of contribution, and the ones I'm surely missing, DE can easily make an extra tab for clans where this information can be displayed. That way if you are the leader of a clan you can actually know who is there playing with the team and helping the clan community.

Of course after what DE did with hema everyone it´s been asking for a resources contribution log, where you can see who donate resources and such, but I think that rating the value of a good clanmate with just that is not enough, the more info the better!

I understand why DE would never do something like this, I will explain. Warframe is a game that makes its profit from newcomer tennos and coming back tennos (the most casual ones) these players apport a lot to the game and to the developers, so they can keep DE alive.Let's face it when you spent a lot of hours into this game you don't need to buy play anymore. the less interested players (casuals) just want everything easy and quick, and this is what it hurt the most, structures like the clans, that are basically funded over sustained contributions of multiple players over time.

How I can see it from my player point of view, the solution will be, making a whole new system for this type of players, that the game really needs. Leave the clans for the player base that needs a more intense gameplay. since you can not keep both in the same place.

I brought this new point of view to the surface after being a warlord from my clan, that has some good 3 years, and end up feeling sometimes, that my role in the game is keeping some kids interested enough, in the game so they buy something with their parent's credit cards. And warframe is much more than that. So I really hope we can have this management tools soon this year.

Edited by -VV-mago_de_muerte
typo
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1 hour ago, -VV-mago_de_muerte said:

I understand why DE would never do something like this, I will explain.

Your explanation did very little to provide cause as to why DE would refuse to add information to the game.  Or I just didn't understand it at all.

1 hour ago, -VV-mago_de_muerte said:

I really support the idea of having more information displayed for tenno in your clan.

I do as well, except on the exterior, such as the clan page that is viewable via linking in chat.  I would also like to be able to click a person's clan emblem in their profile and see their clan profile from there rather than relying on chat links or leaderboard visibility. 

More on that here.

1 hour ago, -VV-mago_de_muerte said:

Not signed in

Have to ask, what is the point of the images and the "Not signed in x 4 after each one?  I find no context for them in your post anywhere.


Anyway, it would certainly be good to see who donates what and when as its far too easy to just say you did when you didn't, especially in situations where the required amounts exceed thousands.  

I would not agree that it is the most wanted thing for clans though, I'd advise avoiding blanket statements and using hearsay and opinions as fact, people tend to shy away from posts that speak for them, or get upset and become defensive.  Both of which are bad for seeking public opinion and support.

 

 

Edited by Xekrin
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@Xekrin

I'm kind of new with the images thingy so I don't know I will reply properly to you after I fix the post. I just delete that until I understand how to sign an image?

well, to make it more clear, what I meant by saying " I understand why DE would never do something like this ", is for how clans will start to reject casual players.

thanks for your idea, I never imagine that, now I can see how useful would that be.

 

 

Edited by -VV-mago_de_muerte
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58 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You are asking just for the ability to see who contributed to something in the clan? Rather a worthless addition for all the clans that already have everything, so not too sure why you feel everyone wants most for a clan.

Because it's pretty obvious that there's going to be more things for the clans that already have everything. Between clan-based events and new clantech, it's going to be more valuable for clan leaders and management to be able to get a much clearer picture of what their clan members are doing. Especially if DE repeats the cost of the Hema, which I still consider a mistake.

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And what of the clans led by seasoned vets who immediately dump more than enough resources into a new research project as soon as it becomes available? Am I a bad clan mate because I wasn't online 24/7 to catch the brief window between the research starting and thirty seconds later when it's filled and moving on to the "research" phase?

Unless we get some sort of system allowing a clan to speed up research by each member having a personal resource donation goal; seeing that one or two members donating 97% of the resources is not going to be conducting to checking clan participation.

Also, as much as I hate it too, the best way to check your members participation is to interact with them and invite them to play with you. Talk with them, ask for "advice" (whether you know better already or not just to see how willing they are to assist) and ask them to farm with you when you're needed some of a resource or on the hunt for a prime part.

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14 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You are asking just for the ability to see who contributed to something in the clan? Rather a worthless addition for all the clans that already have everything, so not too sure why you feel everyone wants most for a clan.

It would help keep track of clanmates on future research, incase another hema comes along. Also helps distinguish leeches in the clan.

 

5 hours ago, RICK_BO said:

Also, as much as I hate it too, the best way to check your members participation is to interact with them and invite them to play with you. Talk with them, ask for "advice" (whether you know better already or not just to see how willing they are to assist) and ask them to farm with you when you're needed some of a resource or on the hunt for a prime part.

In a moon clan, going out with all of your one thousand members is going to be hard.

6 hours ago, RICK_BO said:

And what of the clans led by seasoned vets who immediately dump more than enough resources into a new research project as soon as it becomes available? Am I a bad clan mate because I wasn't online 24/7 to catch the brief window between the research starting and thirty seconds later when it's filled and moving on to the "research" phase?

There's hema for instance aside from ghost clans, noone managed to build that in 30 seconds. I think donations shouldn't be the only stat though. Members recruited, points done on operations or even tactical alerts should appear on a clan info screen for members. It would help greatly to see who are the helpfull members.

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1 minute ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

There's hema for instance aside from ghost clans, noone managed to build that in 30 seconds. I think donations shouldn't be the only stat though. Members recruited, points done on operations or even tactical alerts should appear on a clan info screen for members. It would help greatly to see who are the helpfull members.

There were 2 people in my discord that had enough samples to fully fund the Hema in 2 different shadow clans. Don't make generalized statements without knowing if it is true or not.

Personally I feel this kind of monitoring would be more harmful than helpful, it certainly wouldn't get used in my own clan and several others I am close with. It encourages such an exclusive feel to the clans. Its why I am also against people being able to restrict research purchase to certain ranks. Thats my thoughts on it.

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Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

There were 2 people in my discord that had enough samples to fully fund the Hema in 2 different shadow clans. Don't make generalized statements without knowing if it is true or not.

Great a shadow clan had 15k samples ready to go, how could I possibly make such a severe generalized statement. How about the other 3 tiers, I will pay you 1k plat if you find a moon clan that finished the hema within 1 day.

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Personally I feel this kind of monitoring would be more harmful than helpful, it certainly wouldn't get used in my own clan and several others I am close with. It encourages such an exclusive feel to the clans. Its why I am also against people being able to restrict research purchase to certain ranks. Thats my thoughts on it.

The system will get used by pretty much every big clan thats try to be competitive and doesn't like having leeches, you not using it doesn't mean it shouldn't be a feature. There are clans who have certain requirements for members to join and certain things they are expect to do, so exclusivity is already there.

I do agree on the restrict purchase to certain ranks, if someone is good enough to donate for a clan then they are good enough to get any weapon from it they want. 

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7 hours ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

In a moon clan, going out with all of your one thousand members is going to be hard.

The point was you need to get to know your clanmates. You talk about being in a moon clan? Well welcome to the big family. This is one of the biggest challenges to running (or even just participating in) a large clan.

7 hours ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

There's hema for instance aside from ghost clans, noone managed to build that in 30 seconds. I think donations shouldn't be the only stat though. Members recruited, points done on operations or even tactical alerts should appear on a clan info screen for members. It would help greatly to see who are the helpfull members.

Hema is an outlier in all senses of the word. And you already can see your clanmates participation in tactical alerts The numbers might not be intuitive and obvious at a glance, but they're there in every single members profile. I managed a good run early on in the Pacifism Defect, and once the participation requirement was reduced and it became feasible for us to attain (70% inactive mountain clan at the time) I was checking all our members profiles to see who had yet to place any score at all let alone a decent one so I could run with them. 

We have since cut down on numbers and downsized to a storm clan. We would've liked to go to shadow, but we're at ~40 actives. But even at mountain size we've had no problems with funding research (except for outliers) out of our personal coffers immediately.

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13 minutes ago, RICK_BO said:

The point was you need to get to know your clanmates.

ye I get the point, but you will never know everyone in your clan and delegating that to officers doesn't work either, they will have varied opinions on who they figure can be an asset. Also no need to welcome me to the big family have been here a long time.

14 minutes ago, RICK_BO said:

And you already can see your clanmates participation in tactical alerts The numbers might not be intuitive and obvious at a glance, but they're there in every single members profile

yes true, but checking individual scores on profile for every member is a pain. They could have a list of complete leaderboards for members in a clan that warlords can check. 

23 minutes ago, RICK_BO said:

I managed a good run early on in the Pacifism Defect, and once the participation requirement was reduced and it became feasible for us to attain (70% inactive mountain clan at the time)

I don't see your point here, participation requirement was a score for casuals and dead clans, it's literally a participation score. 

 

23 minutes ago, RICK_BO said:

I was checking all our members profiles to see who had yet to place any score at all let alone a decent one so I could run with them. 

Go check each member profile on a moon clan with about 100 - 200 people online at a time. This clearly shows there should be a way to acess leaderboards for full clan, specially one where you can click on the names of the people in that list and help them do more runs. It's not something essential but it would help alot managing bigger clans if we had for management tools.

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You cut the sentence in half. Once I had a good score I was checking up on clanmates scores via their profile to help boost their, and our clans, score. once we reached participation I was checking for clanamets who had no score to get them into "participation status:

And why should only warlords get the privilege of checking the clans proposed leaderboard for tactical alert scores. Your officers might have varied opinions, but that's why you need to be selective in your promotions. Maybe Clan management tools could use some work and quality of life treatment, but This is Not what I want the most for clans in 2017.

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On 2/4/2017 at 6:26 AM, RICK_BO said:

And what of the clans led by seasoned vets who immediately dump more than enough resources into a new research project as soon as it becomes available? Am I a bad clan mate because I wasn't online 24/7 to catch the brief window between the research starting and thirty seconds later when it's filled and moving on to the "research" phase?

Unless we get some sort of system allowing a clan to speed up research by each member having a personal resource donation goal; seeing that one or two members donating 97% of the resources is not going to be conducting to checking clan participation.

Also, as much as I hate it too, the best way to check your members participation is to interact with them and invite them to play with you. Talk with them, ask for "advice" (whether you know better already or not just to see how willing they are to assist) and ask them to farm with you when you're needed some of a resource or on the hunt for a prime part.

 

This is why wrote this in the post, from the beginning " I think that rating the value of a good clanmate with just that is not enough, the more info the better! " as you can see I agree with you in that part, but when you say that I have to know every single player in the clan, I think you do not realize how complex would that be in a large clan (mountain & moon).

For me almost in the past when I established a relationship with a clanmate, it used to take some time, to get to know his/her playstyle and contributions to the clan and how cool of a person is, in my years as warlord I had the pleasure to meet awesome people, a lot of them, to the point that when I connected to test a weapon or trying to solo a survival,I couldn't, my chat was overflowed with massive amounts of requests to play, from  clannies, from the moment I came online,  it was something like you can see in the prime times, and it still happens, it makes me feel tired sometimes, have all that attention on me. In the end, I couldn't do my projects but to join to my clannies, and I have a mountain, I cannot even imagine how this would be in a moon clan, I think our friend @---RV---Maniacis in a moon he surely can tell.

So no, you cannot get to know everyone in your clan, since, first the person you wanna talk needs to be wiling to talk to you as well, and many newcomers to the clans don't feel that way, is a huge task @RICK_BO You should compare a small comfy 10 people clan with a town of 300-1000 guy.

 

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It is something that many of the Warlords on this particular forum want, however, as someone pointed out earlier this tool of lifetime statistics is something that despite being mentioned keeps being lost to several threads about the same topic.

I suggest using the hashtag #StatisticsTool4Clans2017 is long I know, but it should help showing DE how much we really want it.

 

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On 4/3/2017 at 7:35 AM, -VV-mago_de_muerte said:

So no, you cannot get to know everyone in your clan, since, first the person you wanna talk needs to be wiling to talk to you as well, and many newcomers to the clans don't feel that way, is a huge task @RICK_BO You should compare a small comfy 10 people clan with a town of 300-1000 guy.

I'm sorry did you miss the part where I said I was in a mountain clan?

But that all aside, let me ask you this? What's the point of being in a 300-1000 person clan when you don't know your clanmates? 

I assume you are a clan leader; What was your announcement for the Ferrox Research when it became available? How many resources did you ask from each player? And if you can't trust your clanmates to contribute what little is asked of them should they be in your clan? You keep telling me that in a 1000 man clan it's impossible to know every single member; so why did you let it grow that big? These anonymous clanmates that you know nothing about might as well be clan-jumpers.

was in a mountain clan, and we have since downsized one tier. To me there are still a lot of members in the clan but I can at least recognize them all.

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On 1/4/2017 at 10:21 PM, NeithanDiniem said:

You are asking just for the ability to see who contributed to something in the clan? Rather a worthless addition for all the clans that already have everything, so not too sure why you feel everyone wants most for a clan.

 

Yes and not only for clans that already have everything, this also could be very beneficial for starting clans as well. It is a simple tool to add to the game, but it could make such an important difference.

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2 hours ago, -VV-mago_de_muerte said:

Yes and not only for clans that already have everything, this also could be very beneficial for starting clans as well. It is a simple tool to add to the game, but it could make such an important difference.

You didn't quite seem to see that the lines of mine you quoted were more or less a poke at the title where this is what everyone wants. I personally want several quite different things for clans that I feel would be far more impactful. Personally I feel this idea in particular would encourage more hostility within a good number of clans rather than bringing them together, so I really wouldn't want this myself. Any clan leader that starts a clan should do so knowing that role of responsibility for contributing towards it rests on them. If they aren't willing or able to take the full responsibility to the role, then why would clan members who see that be willing to contribute? Seeing what goes on in other forums or discords regarding clans being outright hostile towards people that don't contribute, certainly with the recent event for the Ignis Wraith, makes me see any such addition that would make that even easier to do a poor addition to the game. It wouldn't bring people together, only cause more dissent. One should be able to trust their higher ranking members to contribute if it is something the clan leader cannot do themselves, otherwise why do you have them in the clan? Larger clans yes this becomes ever harder to do, but that just means your highest ranking officers should be people that share that ideal of taking up the responsibility. One tenth of the clan's population can easily pay for anything in a clan as it comes out or as you reach that point without much hassle, Hema being the first addition that is something that may require more to chip in or a bit of dedicated work towards.

So I really do not see any importance in adding such a monitoring system. It just doesn't mesh with how I feel a clan should be operated or how I operate my own, along with those my closer allies run.

Edited by NeithanDiniem
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7 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Any clan leader that starts a clan should do so knowing that role of responsibility for contributing towards it rests on them. If they aren't willing or able to take the full responsibility to the role, then why would clan members who see that be willing to contribute? Seeing what goes on in other forums or discords regarding clans being outright hostile towards people that don't contribute, certainly with the recent event for the Ignis Wraith, makes me see any such addition that would make that even easier to do a poor addition to the game. It wouldn't bring people together, only cause more dissent.

Wait, what? Where did you get that idea? Where did strenght through union go? Where's the working hard towards a single goal mentality?

What's the point of a 1000 man clan if 100 (10% as you mention) are the one contribuiting? Sorry mate but your mentality is wrong on so many levels... 

Each clan is like a free country/city/town/village where you pay taxes(Resources) in order to get the products of the community effort(Research), the leaders are there to guide not to babysit. A monitoring tool is the most basic tool needed for management of large groups of people, is how you keep track of the KPIs and how you ultimately evaluate the clan's performance.

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On 4/2/2017 at 10:51 AM, NeithanDiniem said:

You are asking just for the ability to see who contributed to something in the clan? Rather a worthless addition for all the clans that already have everything, so not too sure why you feel everyone wants most for a clan.

just because someones clan has all completes means every clan has completed all research.

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On 04/04/2017 at 11:53 PM, RICK_BO said:

I'm sorry did you miss the part where I said I was in a mountain clan?

But that all aside, let me ask you this? What's the point of being in a 300-1000 person clan when you don't know your clanmates? 

I assume you are a clan leader; What was your announcement for the Ferrox Research when it became available? How many resources did you ask from each player? And if you can't trust your clanmates to contribute what little is asked of them should they be in your clan? You keep telling me that in a 1000 man clan it's impossible to know every single member; so why did you let it grow that big? These anonymous clanmates that you know nothing about might as well be clan-jumpers.

was in a mountain clan, and we have since downsized one tier. To me there are still a lot of members in the clan but I can at least recognize them all.

Creating a community of 1000 players doesn't mean you have to know every single one of them. It's stupid to even relly on your warlord to know everyone in the clan, specially if that warlord can only aford play a few hours weekly. In a active moon clan people go in and out on 100+ monthly, there's also the fact that any player will take breaks (including warlords) and if you run a properly active clan you will have people that will keep it running smooth with no problems. Just like the boss of a company won't know every employee in it, neither have warlords to know each member, that's why you have multiple warlords and officers to run things.

The knowing every player in your clan might and growing overly atached to them is one of the big reasons there are so many dead big tier clans around warframe. You need rotation in recruiting and kicking, and more than 1 person running things.

There's also like @-VV-mago_de_muerte said, people that will not comunicate much due to not being native english speakers or just aren't the type.

Also every can be an anonymous clan jumper when you invite someone to the clan, if your expecting us to play with each member for months and doing background checks on them before inviting said person, you have to be crazy. Even people that you know will backstab you and jump clans.

Also about the ferrox research, I know the question is not directed to me, but I have to laugh. Ferrox was finished in about 1 hour while I wasn't even online. How would you even manage to keep track of resources for each member? not to mention, ask specific amount from each. And if you found the ferrox a struggle to the point where you come up with resources for each member, than ye your clan has issues.

On 03/04/2017 at 2:28 AM, RICK_BO said:

You cut the sentence in half. Once I had a good score I was checking up on clanmates scores via their profile to help boost their, and our clans, score. once we reached participation I was checking for clanamets who had no score to get them into "participation status:

And why should only warlords get the privilege of checking the clans proposed leaderboard for tactical alert scores. Your officers might have varied opinions, but that's why you need to be selective in your promotions. Maybe Clan management tools could use some work and quality of life treatment, but This is Not what I want the most for clans in 2017.

My point was, how do you check all one thousand moon clan members scores within this century? Better clan management tools would be nice for that. Don't particularly care what you did for your clanmates or it matters here.

I understand it may not be what you want it the most, but it would be a welcome addition. Also I don't want sheep officers, they have opinions is a good thing and everyone will have their opinion, just like on this forum post.

21 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

One tenth of the clan's population can easily pay for anything in a clan as it comes out or as you reach that point without much hassle,

Pigments, itzal, grattler, stims research overall and few others which require a resource thats a bit low than what DE thinks it actually is. Like oxium, mutagen samples, enemies to drop pigments. DE has lost a bit of touch with farming aspects of the game when it comes to a few resources. 

And ye, way more than 10% should be contribuiting, otherwise your going to get events like last one and all those fat leechers that never donated for anything are going to do the same for event. Probably even jump clans to one with ignis wraith so they can leech there now. Not just for ignis wraith but for about everything else too.

On 03/04/2017 at 1:44 AM, RICK_BO said:

The point was you need to get to know your clanmates. You talk about being in a moon clan? Well welcome to the big family. This is one of the biggest challenges to running (or even just participating in) a large clan.

Also, only now I properly saw this, it's cute that you think we are on the same boat, but your also welcoming me into something I have been running for years now at a much greater scale and sucess.

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46 minutes ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

just because someones clan has all completes means every clan has completed all research.

Completely missed the entire point of that post. Read the topic title, then read my post. Its getting silly how many people aren't reading that right. My first post in this was purely a poke at the title of the thread. People keep blowing it up into something it wasn't.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7f/3e/31/7f3e315d37586ab9afffe0d7b54e56ef.jpg

13 hours ago, zzzNitro said:

Wait, what? Where did you get that idea? Where did strenght through union go? Where's the working hard towards a single goal mentality?

What's the point of a 1000 man clan if 100 (10% as you mention) are the one contribuiting? Sorry mate but your mentality is wrong on so many levels... 

Each clan is like a free country/city/town/village where you pay taxes(Resources) in order to get the products of the community effort(Research), the leaders are there to guide not to babysit. A monitoring tool is the most basic tool needed for management of large groups of people, is how you keep track of the KPIs and how you ultimately evaluate the clan's performance.

You may notice that I said it was only 10% needed to contribute to get something easily, and that if the clan actually saw those in leadership positions as people dedicated to the clan that they would be much more inclined to contribute. If people contribute then good on them. Nowhere was anything I said stating that those 90% wouldn't be contributing or shouldn't help out. They should however not be forced to do so, expected to meet a quota in order to justify their addition to the clan. Its way to stupid easy to fund most things in the clan and to find clans with this content already funded, so forcing people to do so or face booting from the clan is just added hostility on top of everything else. They'd just go to a clan that doesn't care.

Also, really now, If someone cant lead, why would they follow? Strength in union also requires a leader that is worthy for that position that can uphold and direct that union. A leader dedicated to the clan is one people are more willing to follow. So not sure at all why you selected that one line of mine and thought it somehow went against your idea that a clan should be united.

8 minutes ago, ---RV---Maniac said:

Pigments, itzal, grattler, stims research overall and few others which require a resource thats a bit low than what DE thinks it actually is. Like oxium, mutagen samples, enemies to drop pigments. DE has lost a bit of touch with farming aspects of the game when it comes to a few resources. 

And ye, way more than 10% should be contribuiting, otherwise your going to get events like last one and all those fat leechers that never donated for anything are going to do the same for event. Probably even jump clans to one with ignis wraith so they can leech there now. Not just for ignis wraith but for about everything else too.

Fun thing about pigments: extras go to the clan vault if you downgrade your clan. May be useful info for a clan that can easily farm an easily dropped, high-number requirement pigment at a higher clan rank: Ensure that you can can downsize, first off. Then start research on a pigment that needs a LOT of one color from a common enemy. Contribute all so it starts researching. Lastly downgrade while the research is ongoing and all that extra pigment you submitted goes into the vault, and is usable for any and every pigment color. Useful for the annoying ones, Like the hunters, or those that don't drop often from the target. Just something I discovered by odd chance right after the Ignis Wraith thing. Too bad it was after I had most colors completed... Could have saved a ton of time.

For items and the dojo itself, I fully funded the reconstruction of the quite tiny dojo me and a bud had for a year before we started to expand. It now has at least one of every single room, with quite a few hallways and the like spread over 4 floors, most rooms decorated, every item researched outside of the rail specter squads and the Ignis Wraith, and only about 7% of those items had any contribution from other members. Hema was the one and only item that I couldn't outright fund after release within a day or two of farming from what I had stockpiled already (I had skipped a TON of outbreaks and used a lot of samples for mutagen mass). The process was done just as I played normally, and as content was added I expanded to follow suit. Hell I'd go on to say that during that time there were several long spans when I was downright casual and rarely got online. Since I was one tenth of the clan's total member size for that time before we expanded our numbers (briefly, downgraded to get Hema since we had a few people pushing us to the Ghost rank that were no longer playing the game), that is why I state it is quite simple for one tenth of a clan to fund their research, especially if out of that tenth they are all active members.

The leechers, if DE does the events right from now on, would get nothing. If they contribute to the total score they would get eligibility because they helped the clan score, and if not, nothing. Cant speak on DE's behalf though if they plan more of those kinds of events like seen with Ignis Wraith, they haven't exactly said if they thought it was a success or not. And with how many people give the Ignis Wraith BP away for free to anyone, in clan or not, it hardly matters if they jump clans. If they jump, then clearly they weren't really into the clan to begin with. They wouldn't have contributed anyways, so there they go saving you the trouble. These kinds of events would also encourage clans to downsize to manageable levels that don't keep people that have not been online in 6 months.

 

Either way, I've stated my piece on this.

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2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You may notice that I said it was only 10% needed to contribute to get something easily, and that if the clan actually saw those in leadership positions as people dedicated to the clan that they would be much more inclined to contribute. If people contribute then good on them. Nowhere was anything I said stating that those 90% wouldn't be contributing or shouldn't help out. They should however not be forced to do so, expected to meet a quota in order to justify their addition to the clan. Its way to stupid easy to fund most things in the clan and to find clans with this content already funded, so forcing people to do so or face booting from the clan is just added hostility on top of everything else. They'd just go to a clan that doesn't care.

well if your definition of the clan is charity where most people are laid back free loaders while only a few do the work then yeah by all means grind more.

but by my definition a clan is a cooperative, you should pull your weight if you want to retain benefits of membership.

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