Performance and the Future of PhysX Effects

[GarnetSan]

4 hours ago, WingedCrusade said:

Christ, that looks freaking gorgeous.

 

What's the difference between off and on, now? I've only just recently gotten an Nvidia graphics card.

They toned it down a lot. Can't blame them.

Conceptually(and in a trailer) it looks gorgeous, but when you played with it, the FX teneded to blot your entire screen with particles. It's cool if you are doing a cinematic/demonstration, but when you are playing you end up not liking your target LOS being blocked by FX

[DLz47]

I hope there will be a way to have those effects again

[Myscho]

31 minutes ago, DLz47 said:

I hope there will be a way to have those effects again

Old PhysX effect are gone forever, because they ditch them due engine-created particles called "flow" and double work.

And now they disable it on newer drivers than 373.06 due memory leaks.

[verklickt147]

hmm - i never could enjoy this - cuz on the 1050 ti i use - physix - wasn´t possible 4 WF and other games since beginning... but oh jeah those physX vids are great ^^

there should be more xtreme performance tweak options .. like in good ol Q3Arena (console)...

 

 

[calabi]

This is pretty disappointing, I was just going to get back into Warframe.  I love the sparkly Physx effects, its stupid but it makes it much more enjoyable.   Its typical of Nvidia at the moment they keep messing up the drivers.  They buy up this propriety tech barely use it and then depreciate, well spent money there. Who knows what we would have seen in games by now if everyone was able to use Physx.   I cant really roll back the drivers its going to effect other games I play.

[redhex]

When installing nvidia drivers there is the option to install only specific components. Would it be possible for warframe to detect that a user might have the physx component only from the older safe driver revision, while other components are up to date? If physx is being phased out and newer games that demand newer drivers don't employ it, could this be the best compromise? Or must all components be up to date.

[RaiZr-]

19 hours ago, RaginGoblin said:

Dang it!  i've recently changed my AMD GPU to a gtx1070 to get my sparky effects and then this happens...

Thanks a lot Nvidia....

It's not Nvidia's fault,it's just the way things evolve,DE will get a sollution for that,they don't support 50% of Asus VGA functions,if they start "unsupporting" Nvidia's functionallities"?" then they will loose some players.since those 2 VGA's are top market arround Space Ninjas.

[calabi]

59 minutes ago, RaiZr- said:

It's not Nvidia's fault,it's just the way things evolve,DE will get a sollution for that,they don't support 50% of Asus VGA functions,if they start "unsupporting" Nvidia's functionallities"?" then they will loose some players.since those 2 VGA's are top market arround Space Ninjas.

Its not the way things evolve its not a natural thing, its human made physical thing.  Nvidia have messed up somewhere and in turn screwed up these games that use Physx.

[7Random77]

I just hope this wont be like in other game. PhysX got disabled and stayed like that for 4years.

For now I just downgrade drivers, because with out physX, there is no WF for me..

[Vafthrudnir]

To me warframe is not Warframe without PhysX, is there a manual bypass for this? I did not experience these "memory leaks" so please just add a note for players and leave it on, or tell me what configs overwrite to do this without changing drivers.

[SLIMJIMMONSTER]

That explains why i cant run Boaderlands for ****

[Myscho]

4 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

To me warframe is not Warframe without PhysX, is there a manual bypass for this? I did not experience these "memory leaks" so please just add a note for players and leave it on, or tell me what configs overwrite to do this without changing drivers.

Rollback to 373.06 drivers if you are using newer

[Aoden]

21 hours ago, Multicom-EN- said:

I don't really notice much performance drops. Any specific reason as to why it HAS to be disabled for everyone running a newer driver? Why not give us the option to turn it off and on? I for one am not downgrading drivers due to certain games requiring newer drivers in order to even launch. 

This, so much this.

Please allow us to choose how to deal with the current issue. If we aren't feeling any negative affects, let us leave it enabled.

I can't roll back for similar reasons, it's a little unreasonable to suggest that we do so or have part of our visuals forcibly disabled.

[Multicom-EN-]

1 hour ago, Myscho said:

Rollback to 373.06 drivers if you are using newer

Yeah let me get right on that and lose DX 12 performance gains in many games. NOPE! Give us a "legacy" launcher or optional update. Anything. Warfame is not the same without Physx. R.I.P old Physx also.

[Vafthrudnir]

I'd also like custom particles settings, in memory of the old stuff.

Seriously, Volt looks even worse without PhysX, also Nova...

[SirMossy]

I'm so mad right now. Literally 23 days ago I said goodbye to my 400+ hours PS4 version of Warframe and decided to switch PC for the improved visuals and framerate, and now after spending a ton of money (optional I know) on getting back some of my old stuff, you start to remove graphics settings?

I get that you found a memory leak, but simply turn it off by default and show a warning if people want to enable it. 

[A7xConnor]

3 hours ago, SirMossy said:

I'm so mad right now. Literally 23 days ago I said goodbye to my 400+ hours PS4 version of Warframe and decided to switch PC for the improved visuals and framerate, and now after spending a ton of money (optional I know) on getting back some of my old stuff, you start to remove graphics settings?

I get that you found a memory leak, but simply turn it off by default and show a warning if people want to enable it. 

There's not much stopping you from downgrading drivers either if you want it that bad. But regardless I do agree it's kinda silly to lock it out (I use to use it and my performance wasn't really any different with it on than with it off, still always over 150FPS or so even though I'm using newer drivers than it recommends, with everything maxed out at 1440p) it's an optional graphics setting, just default have it off and let people have it on if they wish, if they have perfomance problems then that's their own fault? and they can fix it pretty simply, that's like people using DSR or something to run the game at 8k res then they complain that the game runs like crap, they put it upon themselves and can easily change that. 

I remember Killing Floor 2 did the same kinda thing with Flex (which to my understanding is more about liquids/gore physics) the first iteration they introduced by far looked the most awesome and best, once again it didn't change my performance noticeably, but for some it did, so they revised it and dumbed it down a lot (it looked pretty awful and gross after this, so I decided not to use it) yet people were still having performance issues so they removed it completely, later added it back in but it still looks like trash compared to the first version, and I'm pretty sure people still complain about performance. Firstly, the game didn't initially have it, it's optional, so for those who can run it can run it if they wish, and those who can't, well their loss? it's optional, not something that has been taken away from them, just something new added for those that can exploit it, to do so. Much like Doom's "Nightmare" OPTIONAL graphic option, it's just extras there for people that can reach it to use if they wish. 

Anyway rant over. I'm not that bothered about not being able to use it, though I do find the solution a bit silly, it's optional so why lock it out? but I also thing people's resolutions of the game being unplayable for them now because some particles are missing are a bit ridiculous also. *shrug*

[taiiat]

22 minutes ago, A7xConnor said:

it's an optional graphics setting, just default have it off and let people have it on if they wish, if they have perfomance problems then that's their own fault? and they can fix it pretty simply, that's like people using DSR or something to run the game at 8k res then they complain that the game runs like crap, they put it upon themselves and can easily change that. 

I remember Killing Floor 2 did the same kinda thing with Flex

pmuch everyone would have been experiencing those Memory Leaks, those that weren't would have been coincidentally using PhysX in what would be generally non-ideal settings, or restarting their game often enough that they didn't run into any memory issues.
nothing of the fault of the end Consumer.

nothing like activating a downscaling feature like DSR and having it reduce performance - that is simply a horsepower issue - not an issue that affects everyone.

 

you were in the very minority then, issues with FleX in Killing Floor 2 were very widespread and covered systems from midrange up to very high end.... which should be expected for a completely unused system up to that point, a rough road that you agreed to take part in.

[Aila]

Nvidia 340.52 here, crashes since specters of the rail, impossible to join any relay. Game crashes  my nvidia  or dx9 drivers (bsod). Random crashes, Insufficient video memory etc etc.

[Teshin_Dax]

I hope you are sure that PhysX and the Driver-Version is the Problem..
Because it wasn't a Problem for me.. But Nvidia Share is/was one .. 

If you have Nvidia Share active ... means if you are able to record and do stuff at any time .. warframe will easily crash (everytime you start it - but only once per day or reboot.. you can play without any problems after the 1st crash)

Maybe it's nvidia share.. you should try to deactivate it and then start warframe and use physX

[Aoden]

Can we get a dev comment on this? It honestly feels like DE jumped the gun here.

[k1DBLITZ]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 7:17 AM, calabi said:

This is pretty disappointing, I was just going to get back into Warframe.  I love the sparkly Physx effects, its stupid but it makes it much more enjoyable.   Its typical of Nvidia at the moment they keep messing up the drivers.  They buy up this propriety tech barely use it and then depreciate, well spent money there. Who knows what we would have seen in games by now if everyone was able to use Physx.   I cant really roll back the drivers its going to effect other games I play.

^^^ This exactly. I recently switched to green team after 10+ years of AMD GPUs.. and my GOSH... Those PhysX particles were like eyeball orgasms. Now the game feels.....empty without them.

I never noticed any performance loss, memory leaks, or stability issues, but I also have 32GB of RAM. :)

 

[Extroah]

On 4.4.2017 at 3:05 AM, eXophobia said:

 @[DE]Jengerer

That is quite interested to read for me. I'm haven't worked with PhysX so far, but done some program on the CUDA.
That being said it's also the first time I'm hearing of an inherent bug in the engine that is likely to not be fixed (but I'm also not keeping up to date on these things). I also don't seem to notice similar problems in other games.

If you find the time, keep us updated which way the team decides to go and what changes it will involve. It's always interesting to follow how such problems are getting tackled.

To me it seems there aren't that many options around anyway, with the most notable option to Physx being Havok or in-house solutions like Valves Rubikon (if that's still a thing).

 

Please no Havok. Havok is freaking out a lot, especially in Skyrim in regards to clothes physics with collision detection (like havok cloaks stretching across the whole map or havok hair freaking out when colliding), so i can't even start and imagine how that would work out with particle effects. Bullet engine seems to be a better choice, though i'd prefer for them to make an in-house kind of thing. It's always better to create something specially for that particular game and the effects they are looking for than to use something that roughly does what they need, imho.

[eXophobia]

51 minutes ago, Extroah said:

. Havok is freaking out a lot, especially in Skyrim in regards to clothes physics with collision detection (like havok cloaks stretching across the whole map or havok hair freaking out when colliding),

This is likely not related to the physics engine per se, but much more to an insufficient implementation. All games on that particular engine you mentioned are suffering from severe and obvious errors. Good examples for a proper implemention aren't hard to find as (quoting from Wikipedia) over 600 games use it. Most notably all games based on Valves' Source engine (i.e. HL2 to Portal2), Bioshock, Farcry series, Just Cause series, ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Havok

 

51 minutes ago, Extroah said:

 though i'd prefer for them to make an in-house kind of thing. It's always better to create something specially for that particular game and the effects they are looking for than to use something that roughly does what they need, imho.

That's usually not much of an option. You'd think there's reason why we use existing libraries over developing it from scratch.

[oneforsaken]

I feel if you guys keep adding, those new sprite, particle systems every update in few months my brick setup won't be able to handle it. Just make a turn off button for everything, i don't mind playing warframe in 2D i know what it feels like, just try not to overkill it, i get more and more issues because of the game looking better. It fine but let me turn it of ty.