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[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread


(XBOX)ZeroMKIX
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Just now, Frenjo said:

Yeah, I feel us hardcore Limbo mains have been really seriously let down, and I really tried to like these changes. Don't get me wrong, some are good, but quite a few are just not good.

I'm not even a Limbo main XD I just really *want* to like him.  It is such a cool concept but I just can't get into it.

 

On the whole, as great as it is to see DE trying to fix it, and I really appreciate the effort!  ... this just feels like a step back in terms of functionality.  I really hate saying that, and I love what you guys are doing DE, but I can't sugarcoat it.  Especially the "not being able to banish to the rift while in the rift" thing.  I'm sure you are hearing that a lot already though.


I really hope you don't take this too much to heart team.  I still have faith in you guys, and I hope this can be fixed.

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Just now, MrInvizible said:

I'm not even a Limbo main XD I just really *want* to like him.  It is such a cool concept but I just can't get into it.

I've been a limbo main for... A long time, and I hoped that the rework would be good and really wanted to try something new... So far the only bits I like are the rift dash and the new anims.

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The change to banish is really really bad. If you can't banish enemies while inside the rift, then what's the point?

As a sidegrade, maybe make it so that rift walk has an initial energy cost and is effected by power duration like the old style, but allow us to banish enemies regardless of which plane they are in? The rift walk duration could be displayed on the top right as a status buff with a timer like how allies are effected by banish. Think that would have been the best option.

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I liked Limbo, I really did.  He was the only frame who could challenge a single enemy to a duel ... with the deck properly stacked, of course.  Sure, this had its downsides; Limbo was more or less forced to meticulously kill his enemies one by one.  Now?  He's just another CC frame, who plays just like the other 6 CC frames.  But wait, it's even worse than that.  Rhino, Frost, Nezha, Volt, and Vauban all stop enemy motion like Limbo.  I use them a lot, freezing enemies then blowing them away with aoe weapons like Penta.  Limbo?  I can't do that because in order to put a grenade or rocket in blast range, I have to literally stand in blast range, because the projectile is frozen the instant it leaves the barrel.  So Limbo has to go around meticulously killing enemies one by one ... sound familiar?  Even that would be okay if this patch hadn't simultaneously nerfed Limbo's damage to 1/4 what it used to be.

Let's talk about Rift Surge.  Rift Surge used to give a damage multiplier while in the rift.  It made the process of meticulously killing one by one rather more bearable, amazingly more than making up for the time spent casting banish on each and every target.  Rift Surge was one of the major draws of Limbo, because that Bursa you just pulled into the rift was likely to die before it recovered from the stagger.  Without Surge, you may as well just spam Banish for the small amount of damage dealt on entering rift.  What does Rift Surge do now?  Instead of bolstering Limbo's meagre offensive capability, Rift Surge now replicates the effect of spamming Banish.  In fact, it's pretty much the only way to spam Banish, given how that particular ability has been changed.  Under the guise of improving the variety of Limbo's skillset, the one ability that served to mitigate his downsides was changed to replicate lost functionality of another ability.  Why?

I cannot wrap my head around these changes.  I freely admit that Limbo was extremely limited.  I'm very thankful for giving the ability to carry things through the rift, even if you have to step into the danger zone to pick them up.  I appreciate attempt to streamline the process of pulling multiple enemies into the rift to be slaughtered.  But in the midst of these changes, the unique character of the frame has been lost.  Instead of being the cool calculating operator who chooses targets carefully, Limbo is now a Rhino without his Roar.  A Valkyr without the armor, damage, mobility, or healing.  An Ivara without stealth attacks.  A Vauban without mines.  He has lost more than he gained, and it hurts to see.

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The rework as a whole solved a good bit of Limbo's problems

  • Limbo now has better control of enemies int he rift
  • Limbo now has more options to control how enemies enter the rift
  • His skill overlap alot less with each other
  • 10 energy per enemy killed is a very good passive in the rift.

 

However this rework exaggerated one of limbo's main gripes he's clunky to play and this is solely due to the banish change. Not being able to pull enemies into the rift while you're there is very problematic stasis only works while in the rift, leaving the rift in higher levels is surely death.

Is limbo a "better" frame after the rework? Yes, i believe so but he is even more cumbersome to play because he needs alot of gymnastics to do things  that should be streamined-bringing enemies into his plane through banish.

 

Edited by Buzkyl
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To be honest, the aoe banish is fine. Keeping my 2nd skill activate 24/7 (until I want to cancel it to let my bullets out), when I use banish and banish tons of enemies at the same time and ALL of them just  freeze there in time, waiting for me to stack bullets... 3 seconds letter I press key 2 and BOOM, all of them drop dead.

 

The only thing I dislike, and I've said already, is that limbo is should banish enemies no matter if he is in the rift plane or not..

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That limitation placed on Banish really sucks, but at the same time I can see a few good reasons as to why that had to happen. Hopefully it'll get changed, but I'm not gonna hold my breath; it's really the only complaint I have about this rework so far.

1 hour ago, Marine027 said:

Hard to get used to his change now, only problem so far i see is his Stasis.

Own projectilces and that of other players also get frozen, which seems contraproductive.

I mean its like you want us go melee on enemys in the cataclysm as example but he is squishy and all and other melee units will shred him proabably.

Just shoot your projectiles as you see fit, deactivate Stasis, and enjoy the carnage. There's no melee work involved. If they allowed you to fire off your weapons all willy-nilly during Stasis, it would give Limbo the ability to completely shut down anything and everything while he and his teammates can kill with very little restriction. It would actually be even better than Mirage's old Prism, and that'd be some god-tier CC right there.

22 minutes ago, fibrizz0 said:

Any word about the Syndicate Augments? Will they remain the same?

They changed his Rift Torrent augment so that Limbo gains extra power depending on how many enemies are affected by Rift Surge (instead of how many enemies are simply in the rift, like it was before), but that's the only confirmed change we've got right now.

Edited by Roachester
'Nother quote.
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Wow. I genuinely forgot why I had conditioned myself to stop rolling these past few weeks, and honestly, that dash is perfect. It's fluid, fast, and looks mighty fine. Stasis as an ability is a little clunky, because I can't tell how close the enemy is to death while shooting them, but I'm sure I'll learn.

But those banish changes. I've always opposed AoE on banish, but this is so much worse. Not being able to send enemies to the rift from the rift is horribly clunky. Maybe it's just my time spent playing the old build, but it doesn't make sense to me. Limbo is the Master of the Rift, yeah? Then why can't he banish people from it? If threatening his survivability was the plan, I assure you it won't work. I will simply wait for my Huras to cloak me, then banish my targets. All it does is slow down the slowest frame to an incredulous extent. My method of gameplay yesterday was 

Riftwalk, Banish dude, shoot dude.

Simple, yeah, but it was streamlined after a year of playing the frame.

Now it's 

Roll, find group of dudes, wait to be cloaked, Stasis, roll, banish group of dudes, roll, shoot group of dudes, Stasis, shoot dudes who didn't die

My I can kill more people, but Stasis' clunkiness(but I will concede that I might not be used to it) combined with Banish's ridic dac tick tack nick nack paddy wack give a dog a bone zone shot of petrone take out a loan donkulous change has made Limbo completely alien to those who knew him so well. I do hope the Devs review the banish change, and try to see if they can reverse it. 

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I hope we can banish from anyside to the rift again. Regarding banish itself, it could be cool if it works similar to Ash Bladestorm. Pick one, pick two or pick ten.

That way you are not forced into banish multiple enemies. Dunno, is just a thought.

 

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So in the devstream they showed us the shiny side of the rework, now we can all see the sh****y side too XD

Limbo is one of my favourite frame and it's my 4th most used one, I loved the way it was and i was very exited for the rework (before reading the changes ahah)

I didn't tried it yet due to the update is still downloading, I just read the patch notes and that thread.

The "same plane banish" seams to be a waste of time, too complicated, too many shift in and out the plane just to shot an enemy. In higlevel missions it could be too risky exiting the rift just to make some dmg, i see that the dev intent was to force people to not stay in the rift forever, but i guess in a situation like that i will actually stay forever in the rift letting other players do the mission XD. I think Limbo need to be free to ban/unban enemies wherever they are to be a real "master of the rift"

About rift sourge i'm just sad for the removal of dmg multiplier that was a quite powerfull skill, but i dind't tried the new one so i can't judge it.

I can't feagure out what is should be the difference between killing something in then out the rift.

 

Previously it was:

OUT: risk your life, normal damage, many vs one.

IN: very low risk due to the knock down, high damage boost, one vs one

 

Now is:

OUT: risk your life, normal damage, many vs one.

IN: still low risk but you are forced to switch in an out, normal dmg, few vs one. There still is the knock down but i'm not sure if it lasts enough to kill everyone before they stand up...

I don't see real advantage to kill enemies in the rift, it seams just a mere way to select things to stop : /

 

 

 

yes, i know, my english is really bad XD

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Uh oh. If the banish-riftwalk-kill-stasis-unstasis thing is going to be that involved, it's going to be a ferocious pain in the &#! on a console controller. You can't usually shift powers that fast - it's not like hitting a keyboard key. 

I'd had a bad feeling about this rework from the first I read about it. Guess I'll hope for a rollback prior to hitting consoles. 

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Ok so first problem... having to be in the material plane to banish enemies... we all know limbo is squishy and a frame that previously depended on naramon invis to use his high dps build (rift torrent) he can't be leaving the rift every time he wants to kill... time stop sounds pretty cool, a bit tedious and slow, but cool... also in regards to that dps limbo build, dps limbo is dead. Used to be up to around 10x dmg with a decent amount of enemies in the rift... now you need like 30 enemies in there to get the same buff...

being able to carry datamasses etc in the rift is something I never understood why you wouldn't be able to so that's a nice change, but it's still too early to say if this is overall bad or good. Initial impressions tho is that end game limbo is dead...

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 Limbo's powers are working half the time right now. Can't banish when clicking on enemies when 2 m ahead of me. Rift Surge gets cancelled once an enemy is killed. Rift Surge gets cancelled after 3-5 enemies get killed with enemies still in the rift. Rift Surge can only be cast half the time on an enemy when it is in the rift.

Loving the nuke-on-command of Cataclysm now.

Edited by AerinSol
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From what I read here Limbo will become mostly useless to me overall. The intricacy of power interaction is neat, but impractical on console controls, and the roll-to-roftwalk thing kills it.

His utility for me was in spy missions, and even the chance that I can inadvertently leave or enter the rift (through a bad button press, or using roll like it's typically used, etc) is enough to stop him cold. 

I use roll to dodge, for speed, for maneuvering, and I'm not gonna relearn that for one frame. 

Edited by (XB1)CannyJack
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2 minutes ago, desdendelle said:

2. You can't banish mobs while you're in the rift, which is silly.

Can't you rift surge enemies outside the rift while still being in the rift? The patch says surged enemies outside the rift are automatically banished, but I can't test this right now.

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My only problem with the Limbo rework (Hope a Dev can see this)

 

1.- The main skill banish is a problem.  I should be able to cast it inside and outside the rift at all times.  In the heat of battle I could accidentally send my entire team (And a bursa) into the rift and I should be able to save them by quickly casting it again (Not having to banish my self and then cast it on my team since it would take 2 long).

[ Now before I get the comments of Dude people can roll to get out of the rift. Well let me tell you that not many players know this, so they stay inside the rift like chickens with no head if they don't know how the skill works. To finish this problem... that bursa destroyed level 7 players by the time I tried to save them ]

 

2.- The Rift surge skill is also a problem. Because of the remained banished enemies (even if I cancel cataclysm). What I like to do is, if I cancel cataclysm, I can rift walk my self and get on a better position. But I cant do this if by canceling cataclysm there are still (scary) enemies in the rift... Sure I could use the main skill to get them out, but the problem remains if they are spread out and I am out of energy to use my second skill or even my first skill.

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