[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[W0wRUUD]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

In all honesty, I probably wouldn't screw up the whole rift dash thing until it really mattered. And then I'd blow it. 

"And he only needed to press crouch for .0001 more seconds, but he didn't. So now he's dead."

[Ozent]

I want banish to change so you pull enemies in and out of the rift, rather than pushing them in. A.k.a. Banish enemies into rift while in rift or pull them back out when in material plane. Basically the opposite of the skill at the moment.

[Kaotyke]

Stasis needed a new animation:

[AlaskanWolf]

14 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Yeah, trolls are really ruining his rework. The new Limbo is like Loki but instead of mechanics based on stealth, its full on territorial domination and manipulation.

The people that want the old Limbo back aren't real Limbo players. Real Limbo players liked Limbo because he's hard to understand. This new Limbo is different from the old Limbo but is equally hard to understand. If you are a real Limbo player, you will embrace the challenge in understanding this new warframe. Its how you became a Limbo player in the first place. He's not pick up and play.

THIS

the problem with old AND new limbo is this right here.

 

The biggest problem with new limbo is people are comparing it to old limbo and the way they used to play him. Not accepting that his skill set has an innate synergy that fundamentally changes him from a frame that can freely use all powers individually, to one that requires planning and sequential use of his powers... and by extension, a new mindset for playing him. Reverting banish would not only dull his new "personality" and play style, but break the carefully thought out synergy.

 

I think it would help a lot if people looked at him less like limbo 2.0, and more like Nidus.

 

To clarify... nidus is a frame that requires the use of his 1 to enable his 3 and 4. In turn, those help him stay alive and promote the use of his 1. So while playing Nidus, a person is actually thinking about how they play the frame, enemy location, the tileset... etc. This is all done on a simpler and much more straightforward manner than limbo.

 Limbo now requires that his banish is used in conjunction with his 2 and 3

Edited March 30, 2017 by AlaskanWolf

[Eldest89]

each time I read about a new hotfix I hope to see "changed banish"...

[LSG501]

ok...having played with it and alongside limbo of different approaches.

Passive... yeah lets make limbo basically immune to damage except for that magical fire that can transcend dimensions.... there is no 'cost' for being in the rift, you can basically run around for hours without any concerns other than that magical fire or a nullifier.... all while getting energy. 

Abilities

1 - Man this is annoying, I want to be able to pull my enemies into the rift while I'm there not have to exit, press 1 and then re-enter the rift so this ability basically gets zero use.  Not to mention as another player in the team there really should be some 'notification' that I'm being pulled into the rift because the amount of times I've been pulled in and then went to melee an enemy and saw no damage is just stupid.   I will say I do prefer the old 1, even if it meant losing the current passive of 'rolling' into rift. 

2 - freeze time and enemies, imo the ultimate troll ability of limbo, long duration freezes the enemies and we can't do any damage to them until they get unfrozen..... didn't you remove the immortal enemies from ash because of player complaints yet here you are giving that same 'feature' to limbo.  It feels like the dev's forgot what people complained about with Ash and then went and stuck the same complaint onto limbo's rework...

3 - Haven't seen what benefit there is to this is if I'm honest so it doesn't get used much like 1

4 - Basically this is the main arsenal of limbo, make it high duration and then just press 2 and then 4 or make it low duration/high damage/high range and nuke pretty much anything.  Also still seems to stop me picking stuff up while I'm in there but I'm guessing that's a bug of sorts because aren't we're supposed to be able to get loot now....

 

So what has limbo become to me...

Approach 1  (high duration build) - roll, press 2, press 4, shoot a load. press 2... enemies die

Approach 2 - roll, run around ignoring everything while others do the killing....

Approach 3 (short duration build) - roll, press 4, wait a few seconds or press 4, watch enemies all die, roll.... rinse and repeat

 

[Sar.K.Asmus]

Anyone remembers old Saryn with her old Miasma which could nuke a whole room with one button press?
Guess what she is back and she has a new name. Her name is Limbo.

Can someone who actually understands DE's logic explain to me why they reworked (nerfed) old Saryn's Miasma and now give Limbo an even better "Miasma"?

Because i don't understand why a game developer makes the same mistake twice.

[Swarmframe]

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

and we can't do any damage to them

Just use melee. 

[LSG501]

12 minutes ago, Swarmframe said:

Just use melee. 

last time I tried it didn't do anything.... I'll recheck later if I see a limbo and edit accordingly if it does work, still gives me the same opinion of it though. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by LSG501

[Eldest89]

NOTE: firing at enemies with Zarr's shotgun brake stasis... It is a bug?

Edited March 30, 2017 by Eldest89

[Yuni_Hermit]

Limbo gets harassed even more than before now. I can't enter any missions with randoms without people constantly telling me to stop using stasis. Limbo can't fight if he can't use stasis... his entire kit is built around it.

Generic players don't understand that their bullets still hit things even if I have stasis on, it's all saved up and done at once, but people want a limbo in a mission even LESS than before, now. He's better than before, but I can't play him except with friends.

Stasis is a fun idea, but it just makes people harass him all the time. I don't really think it's a good ability because of that.

Fun, but no one wants him around because of it...

 

I mean stasis is -incredibly- strong on Mobile Defense and Defense. Enemies walk into the Cataclysm bubble to attack the defense target, and they're stuck. Frozen. Can't attack. Walk up and beat them to death, save up some bullets in the air for when Limbo cycles his stasis. Outside of nullifiers, it's invincible (infested/grineer can do nothing about it), but people just complain, even if we have no Frost that mission to compensate.

Can we somehow make it more apparent that people's guns are still working? What we have here is a failure of understanding, not of functionality.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Yuni_Hermit

[AlaskanWolf]

1 hour ago, Eldest89 said:

NOTE: firing at enemies with Zarr's shotgun brake stasis... It is a bug?

nope. stasis has a frozen projectile count limit. that limit is 300. Zarr's shots count each pellet, same with shotguns, so they add up fast and will shut down stasis

 

[DreamsmithJane]

23 minutes ago, Yuni_Hermit said:

Generic players don't understand that their bullets still hit things even if I have stasis on, it's all saved up and done at once, but people want a limbo in a mission even LESS than before, now. He's better than before, but I can't play him except with friends.

I love playing with Limbo, now (unless it's a Cataclysm spammer). I can get into the rift without being banished. Anyone can be on revive duty without Limbo going out of his way, now, and he makes it really easy to headshot everything. No need for Limbo to micromanage his allies to avoid tripping them up. Instead, he can focus on the objective. Not sure why people aren't getting a feel for that. I guess they just want instant gratification from their gunplay.

[Yuni_Hermit]

Just now, DreamsmithJane said:

I love playing with Limbo, now (unless it's a Cataclysm spammer). I can get into the rift without being banished. Anyone can be on revive duty without Limbo going out of his way, now, and he makes it really easy to headshot everything. No need for Limbo to micromanage his allies to avoid tripping them up. Instead, he can focus on the objective. Not sure why people aren't getting a feel for that. I guess they just want instant gratification from their gunplay.

People are just impatient. Like I said, it's a failure of understanding. They just assume they CAN'T shoot things when nothing visible comes out of their gun. Rift Torrent mod still gives you insane amounts of damage foritifcation too, and being in the rift provides a full 2 energy per second... that's fully HALF of Zenurik's Energy Overflow, and worth as much as almost a full squad of Energy Siphons.

But everyone just -whines-. And if the whole squad wants me to not bother... well either I stop, or I find myself alone in a squad. =\

[AlaskanWolf]

34 minutes ago, Yuni_Hermit said:

Limbo gets harassed even more than before now. I can't enter any missions with randoms without people constantly telling me to stop using stasis. Limbo can't fight if he can't use stasis... his entire kit is built around it.

Generic players don't understand that their bullets still hit things even if I have stasis on, it's all saved up and done at once, but people want a limbo in a mission even LESS than before, now. He's better than before, but I can't play him except with friends.

 

Can we somehow make it more apparent that people's guns are still working? What we have here is a failure of understanding, not of functionality.

this is the problem.... people don't know/ understand that you ARE doing damage... just not instantly.

 

so chill people

 

 

 

[AlaskanWolf]

4 minutes ago, Yuni_Hermit said:

People are just impatient. Like I said, it's a failure of understanding. They just assume they CAN'T shoot things when nothing visible comes out of their gun. Rift Torrent mod still gives you insane amounts of damage foritifcation too, and being in the rift provides a full 2 energy per second... that's fully HALF of Zenurik's Energy Overflow, and worth as much as almost a full squad of Energy Siphons.

But everyone just -whines-. And if the whole squad wants me to not bother... well either I stop, or I find myself alone in a squad. =\

hit me up ingame and I'd gladly play with you :) limbo is awesome to have in a squad, especially if everyone knows how to piggyback on limbos abilities :)

 

ingame= alaskanwolf619

Edited March 30, 2017 by AlaskanWolf

[Auron732]

19 hours ago, PrimeCypher said:

I noticed something similar happening with the Tigris. The enemies didn't ragdoll, but there weren't any projectiles from the shot. Maybe shotguns go over the projectile limit?

Shotguns shouldn't be over limit, they're pellets which are still technically projectiles. I think it may be one of two things:

1. Multishot on shotguns and the Redeemer by itself have a weird interaction with the ability.

2. DE decided to do the "smart" thing when coding for pellets. That is to say that when they coded pellets for shotguns they didn't make them in game objects. Rather they made them a damage function that randomly distributes "hits" on a targets model after damage calculation. 

 

The latter would mean that despite the lack of actual objects the game tracks the number of pellets and drops stasis at the appropriate time. The former would mean that this particular ability is very sensitive to shotguns (which makes sense due to the munition type) and likely doesn't consider Redeemer shot as projectiles at all.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 hour ago, Yuni_Hermit said:

People are just impatient. Like I said, it's a failure of understanding. They just assume they CAN'T shoot things when nothing visible comes out of their gun. Rift Torrent mod still gives you insane amounts of damage foritifcation too, and being in the rift provides a full 2 energy per second... that's fully HALF of Zenurik's Energy Overflow, and worth as much as almost a full squad of Energy Siphons.

But everyone just -whines-. And if the whole squad wants me to not bother... well either I stop, or I find myself alone in a squad. =\

 There's nothing wrong with wanting "instant gratification" and feedback from the actions you take in game. Additionally, Limbo's stasis power means that Limbo gets to decide when I do damage, not me. I'd be irritated too if I had a teammate constantly saying "Nope, not yet." 

Stasis is a "you play the game when I let you" power; I'm completely unsurprised that he's met with irritation and requests to knock it off. 

[Yuni_Hermit]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

 There's nothing wrong with wanting "instant gratification" and feedback from the actions you take in game. Additionally, Limbo's stasis power means that Limbo gets to decide when I do damage, not me. I'd be irritated too if I had a teammate constantly saying "Nope, not yet." 

Stasis is a "you play the game when I let you" power; I'm completely unsurprised that he's met with irritation and requests to knock it off. 

Yes but the problem comes when I'm trying to use it to defend a Mobile Defense or Defense target, we have no frost or any other defensive wall, and people STILL won't let me use it... we literally fail the mission from the target exploding because I'm not allowed to put up my stasis bubble.

Also melee is not stopped by stasis. If you must kill them immediately, smack them with your melee weapon, they're defenseless.

[Clowee]

9 hours ago, Clonmac said:

I'm not making excuses. I simply stating how it is. Keep in mind that I didn't say that Limbo doesn't have the potential to be annoying. He absolutely does. I was merely putting that annoyance into perspective rather than broadly stating that "this warframe is annoying" which explains nothing.

Ultimately, the biggest factor into Limbo's annoyance is what level of enemies that you're facing. If you're facing low-mid level enemies that you could easily kill without the need for any CC at all, then yes, Limbo's form of CC has the potential to be annoying if you're using primary or secondary weapons (not so for abilities or melee). But, if you're at a higher level of enemies where CC is crucial, then I've found Limbo to be absolutely helpful and the annoyance dissipates.

Other forms of CC may not have this problem since they don't discriminate between ability, primary, secondary or melee forms of attack in this way. However, the same annoyance factor about a broad sweeping ability warframe killing the enemies before you can kill them with your primary can be said at low-mid level enemies without CC coming into at all.

This is why I don't think being annoyed is a problem that falls squarely on the shoulders of Limbo, but more on the shoulders of ourselves lacking perspective in a game that we share with other teammates. The only way to avoid any annoyance you feel when playing with others is to either shift your perspective on what it means to play with others, or to solo play.

Ok but why are you bringing other frames into this?  This isn't about how annoying a Maim Equinox, Pre nerf Sim Mirage, or WoF Ember can be.  I agree, there's many many combinations out there that can achieve the same level of annoyance or greater, but we aren't talking about them.  Whatever CC or benefits Limbo offers, I don't really care about because it doesn't make him less annoying to me. 

The thread is about that they just reworked Limbo and I still don't want him on my team.  I've listed reasons previously.  To me this just feels like they missed the opportunity to take one of the most trollish unliked frames and make him more likable.  Like if my annoyance factor with Limbo was 10 before, they have brought him down to 7.  They need to get him down to 5 or so before i'll group with him willingly even if he gives away free hats at the end of the match. 

[DonOctavia]

Octavia dealing 0 damage to enemys after some time. Tested with Grineer and Infested. At infested for me its looks like aura of ancient stacks so they will not take damge. I killed some enemys with meele and they started to get damage from octiva. Then the bug returned. For Grineer if can´t say why they did not get damage. Have a look at my screenshots.

 

 

[PsiWarp]

18 minutes ago, DonOctane said:

Octavia dealing 0 damage to enemys after some time. Tested with Grineer and Infested. At infested for me its looks like aura of ancient stacks so they will not take damge. I killed some enemys with meele and they started to get damage from octiva. Then the bug returned. For Grineer if can´t say why they did not get damage. Have a look at my screenshots.

I believe it's because Mallet converts damage absorbed from enemy attacks into Blast damage, which Arson and Caustic Eximus can nullify supposedly the Fire damage type portion of that Blast damage. Why it also nullifies the Cold damage type portion I don't know.

[DonOctavia]

 

38 minutes ago, DonOctane said:

Octavia dealing 0 damage to enemys after some time. Tested with Grineer and Infested. At infested for me its looks like aura of ancient stacks so they will not take damge. I killed some enemys with meele and they started to get damage from octiva. Then the bug returned. For Grineer if can´t say why they did not get damage. Have a look at my screenshots.

 

 

Just did a test in simularium. If u take 5 eximus bombard there will be arson in this group and they will not take damage.

For Infested just do it with: 2x Ancient Disruptor Eximus, 2x Ancient Healer Eximus, All enemys in this group will not take damage. If u ve got others that join that group they will also not take any damage. Looks like Ancient are brocken.

 

edit: as u can see on my 2 sceenshot there is no Ancient Disruptor in range an all enemys on that screen take 0 damage even the moa that is joing the group. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by DonOctane

[RistN]

Before people were complaining about Limbo and I think he was just fine.He had his use.I like only upgrades rift mechanics got.

But now Limbo has that freeze ability that completely dictates all of squad members play style  and whole battlefield.It's all about him now.Everyone is runining max range build and casting Cataclysm wherever battle is making others stuck in rift most of times.This usually gets whole squad confused and killed in higher lvl missions.Not everyone understands how rift works and don't like it for that matter.

He always was a king warframe for trolling players when not used properly and without consideration to others and now he received upgrade to push this few levels higher.

[machasbeans]

At present, there is no indicator for Limbo when allies enter the Rift by using his Rift Portal left by his dash. There is no way for the Limbo to tell how long their squadmates have left. If an indicator was added so that Limbo players can be aware of when they should pop out and back in to help them, that'd be great.